Male Privilege and Female Stigma

[Nihilistic_Impact]

I'd still like an organised statement, lots of things have been tossed around and I'd like to see the arguments compiled.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

If you want a compilation, you'll probably just have to go through it yourself.

 

[Ivory11]

When it comes to female privilige in our society, i highly reccomend looking through this list.
if you are female and answer "yes" to any of these, then congratulations, society favors you in that way because of your gender!


http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/female-privilege-checklist.html

FYI, that was written by a woman

 

[LadyLarunai]

I know, as men, it is sometimes hard for us to see our own privilege. It's a tricky concept.

This goes for everyone.

Most things that are considered "female privilege" are actually just consequences of impositions put on men because of the patriarchy. Women aren't holding us to these standards, other men are.

I feel that most things are privileges when you expect them and they benefit you whether started by a patriarchal system or not, if you used the perceived rules of a system to make your life easier that is a privilege.

Both sides have these privileges in different ways but refusal to acknowledge them will be the biggest hurdle in gaining equality than a perceived hate.

I find it kind of poor form to trace every single negative for each side to a patriarchal system as it removes all sense of agency, I also get annoyed when people mix and match sexism and misogyny despite one meaning something far worse, it lessens the value of the word when the world is painted with it

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

When it comes to female privilige in our society, i highly reccomend looking through this list.
if you are female and answer "yes" to any of these, then congratulations, society favors you in that way because of your gender!


http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/female-privilege-checklist.html

FYI, that was written by a woman

Those play highly off of female stereotypes and then if that's the case you're dipping into another issue - gender equality and feminism. No offense, but I do not think a man assuming I'm a poor little damsel in distress and offering to carry something for me makes up for some of the things that women get the short end of the stick for.

 

[Okabe]

I'm an European.
I'm saying this because I realised that American Feminism really is a very weird thing in my mind, and I hope, a majority of the people living in my country. I'll try to explain.

Almost every single time I saw American Feminism, there was also buzzwords like "Patriarchy", "Privilege" etc.
That doesn't mean anything. Privileges were, for exemple, tax exemptions for the nobles like we had in France. We can argue that the unfair treatment of women in past times was privilege given to men, but that's a very wrong understanding of history in my opinion.

And, anyway, these "privileges" were abolished, at least in France, decades ago. There is almost absolutly not reason today to right for women's rights, as if you look at the law, there is almost nothing discriminatory, the things that do discriminate are insignifiant relics of the past. Just like custody of kids almost almost given to the mother, for instance.

But still, I see on the internet lot of people "denoucing patriarchy", "empowering women". That is absolutly disgusting in my opinion. Just like killing rich people never made poor people richer, killing white people never made colonised people really independant, fighting and alienating "patriarchs" will never make women happier. They'll just obey feminist gurus. And that attitude feminists have is just dividing society.

Yes, I hold doors for women. Why ? Because I do it for everybody. I try to give comfort when someone is crying, man or woman.

And also, I do believe men and women are different, and that there is no problem with being kind to a girl because I want to be closer to her. And I have also a tendency to be nicer to women than to men. Not a problem in my opinion. It's not discriminating or stimatising anybody.

Now for rape. Yes women should be careful about what they wear, because else there is a risk of being raped. Just like I don't put on nice clothes everywhere.
That doesn't give any excuses to rapists. I'm even sadistic to the point of thinking they should pay for what they did, and not only be isolated from society.
It is necessary for everybody to protect itself. Not an ideal situation, but that is absolutly needed.
You can't teach "men" not to rape. Because the one who would never raped anybody like myself, would get pissed, just like hearing about any "privilege" I would have piss me off.
And the one who would know that they are doing something forbidden and moraly wrong. And they already chose not to care.


I believe there is a fight to start. That everybody be able to do what it wants without being bothered with idiots. That women should stop reading stupid magazines and trying to be always seducing, just like men should stop thinking that they must absolutly be "manly". That we should fight feminists who are trying to start a new class war. And that we should strive so that whole humanity can be improved.

Yes, American society, in it's need to divide everybody into categories, is absolutly inhuman.

I also have a sort of argument in favor of "female privilege" : The huge number of men pretending to be women on the internet.
But that doesn't mean that men should stop being nice to women. That just means that men and women should be nicer to men.

 

[Korax]

This has always been a very strange topic for me. I grew up with sisters and many female-friends who I would like to consider sisters because of the long history we share. In any case one of the strangest things I have ever come to term with is that men and women are not that different at all, in fact we are so very similar that we magnify any tiny differences that there are just for the sake of a division. There is a lot of injustice and stupidity caused by this tiny fact, be it stereotypes throw by either gender or vocal minorities trying mudding the water until the real problems are long since lost.

 

[LadyLarunai]

This has always been a very strange topic for me. I grew up with sisters and many female-friends who I would like to consider sisters because of the long history we share. In any case one of the strangest things I have ever come to term with is that men and women are not that different at all, in fact we are so very similar that we magnify any tiny differences that there are just for the sake of a division. There is a lot of injustice and stupidity caused by this tiny fact, be it stereotypes throw by either gender or vocal minorities trying mudding the water until the real problems are long since lost.

That's pretty accurate but does cause another problem in its wake sadly, as what's "male" loses its definition first it comes with a loss of identity and is shown in the rise in male suisides as they lose a place in society, when there is nothing that makes one male or female you lose a sense of self as there are no longer defined role models to follow.

It's shows in how people of both sexes write about things, in the language used and how they fight their battles,

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

https://medium.com/gender-justice-feminism/ea7d883e3a6b

I'm not going to say I agree with this whole article, but it makes a very valid point.

 

[Ruphhausin]

I would agree it has a point, if not for one glaring truth: feminism is needed, not demagoguery that serves only the purpose of allowing those who, like Don King, Al Sharpton, Osama bin Laden, etc., have used their people.. which is for their own ends. Far too often, the most vocal and most visible are merely using it to try and justify their own greed, selfishness, and self-aggrandizement. It is that simple. They don't really care about what is "happening to women all over the world", they are focused on how they can make "Eat,Pray, Love" their lives and not the reality they have to deal with.

Sometimes, it has to be put in as simple of terms as it is. Burying it in "complexity" is far too easy.

 

[Trygon]

Ha ha ha, what the FUCK was that? This chick gets told 'Hey, that's needlessly violent and not at all accurate' and she decides that means she's STRIKING THE CORE OF THE PATRIARCHY, or some silly shit?

Here's the thing that gets me. I don't think there IS a 'patriarchy'. There was once, sure, but even then it wasn't this... Organized hydra, systematically oppressing all women in equal measure lest they RISE UP AND STRIKE OFF IT'S FOUL CROWNS...

Sorry, got a bit carried away. My point. Feminists need/want a tangible foe, because 'Feast on the corpses of Men' an easier rallying cry then 'Help us slowly but consistently reshape all of humanity's gender ideas'.

Of course, this shortsighted propgandeering makes them look like rabid lunatics to men and women of logic and restraint. In my eyes, it's a step back for their cause, but what do I know, right?

 

[LadyLarunai]

I try to stay away from 3rd wave stuff as thing on both sites are well overreaching its like watching political or religious arguments.

But I do have to quote this in light of a few feminism articles I have read on the "friend zone"

"Another huge implication seen throughout the song is victim-blaming. Of course, if a woman dances with a man, it means she wants to sleep with him. And obviously, if she wears a short skirt or tight dress, she’s asking for it. Wrong. A dance, a smile, a drink, an outfit — does not indicate consent."

Sure it's a little skewed but if this is accurate why is there this stigma that males are pissed at "friend zoning" because of a loss of ownership and sex, why the hypocrisy? Why does everything a male does means he wants sex but if males read a woman the same way it's just incorrect thinking, there seems to be a lack of bloggers that think maybe males just want a relationship, I find hypocrisy in the entire things sometime that a fight for equality still relies on stereotypes.

I'm not sure how tailor swift is in the feminist world but "you belong with me" screams "friend zone" maybe males just don't state wand as eloquently as females but in some circles in reverse that song would be classed as patriarchal entitlement..

I think I will go back to the sidelines for now

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

1. Because the way women dress implies their moral standards.
2. Because men "obviously" always want sex.

As I said, I don't agree with the whole article, especially the "uphevel(sp?) of all that is male" that envelopes some of it because of what some of her friends said.

Yes, there is a lot of "Waaaah I can't have what I want" that occurs amongst both sexes, from my own experience, more guys, again in my own experience, complain about how being friendzoned sucks because now they won't get fucked.

And, unfortunately, it is still pretty apparent today that unless you keep your legs closed, you're obviously a dirty slutty mcslut slut, while you aren't manly if you don't lay a lot of chicks.

It's not as apparent as it used to be, but the circus that occurs around actual rape cases makes me facepalm. Hard.

Both sexes need a vacation from the stupid and the media and just chill.

 

[Ruphhausin]

I agree. The Media fuel it more than anything, because they are infotainment now, not really news.

As far as the entire rape issue, here is the difference on that.

No matter what I role-play, I believe rape (in reality) is a crime and deplorable. What I think is most disgusting about it is the mythologies (which were totally hindered by the stroking of female egos) about how easily an "intelligent sensible woman" would be able to prevent it from happening. That was and always has been bullshit, as well as those women who still "don't believe it" about some of those cases that ended up with the "Lifetime Movie" about it. "They are too hot/rich/refined/ad nauseum excuse for the rapist piece of shit here" to have raped anyone. That was caused by both genders, so I agree.

What also cannot be ignored, though, is the fact that there are women who have abused with glee the potential destruction to a man's life if the accuse him of rape in any form. That is more common that is wanting to be admitted, and that is also a problem caused by both genders paying attention to the Media too much. While it should always been taking with a walk of caution, "buyer's remorse" or doing it just to get back at someone for whatever reason DOES REALLY HAPPEN. It ruins lives too, and it is not at all less detrimental to the victim's reputation either.

 

[LadyLarunai]

As I said, I don't agree with the whole article, especially the "uphevel(sp?) of all that is male" that envelopes some of it because of what some of her friends said.

This is my favourite part of people arguments and I find it a hilarious cop out, I just love the "I have friends of this sex that agree/disagree with me" angle, so do most people if they didn't agree with you it would be a more inflamitory discussion on brain washing as opposed to this surprised me.

I have a little experience with friend zone, has happened to myself and a few friends but none have mourned the loss of sex but the whole argument relies on every person of that sex being a stereotype, in my crouds noone really obsessed over sex bar one or 2 even then time has changed them.

It is sad that false accusation is treated as a joke in multiple ways, it can easily ruin ones life.

 

[Laa]

You know, you guys are quite clever and all make some valid points... But, you do have the tendency to lounge at each other instead of the arguments itself. :/

1. Has anyone ever questioned your morality because of what you wear? Of whether or not you are "asking for it" or somehow it depicts your sexual availability?

Yes, though not in this context. I hate the fashion industry, and primely avoid all major and expensive brands if possible.

2. If you say you don't feel like having kids and just want to enjoy your life, do people call you selfish or question your masculinity?

No. Besides, as the law stands now, getting a child is a huuuge risk for a man, in comparison to that of a woman. 90% of all cases are won by women when it comes to the rights to get the children after a divorce or the like.

3. Have you ever felt unsafe simply walking down the street alone to a friend's house at night? Or that you feel uncomfortable walking alone to places in general?

Yes. I'm generally a paranoid being, and I have long hair, too. Believe it or not, some men discriminate against men with long hair, as they are coupled with the 'despicable' gays, whom they also discriminate. I also live next to a football stadium, and that's not too neat.

4. If you don't care to watch sports, do people call you a woman? Or question your masculinity?

No, not really. Then again, I spend most of my social time with mates I've met at school who are all wacky like me. Gaming is more important than sports over there anyway. Cus' it's engineering stuff and stuff.

5. If you get "overly emotional" do people tell you to quit acting like such a girl?

No, never. Then again, the only ones who get to see me 'overly emotional' in a sad kind of way, is my close family. Happy, on the other hand, is something I do with open arms anywhere, and I do have a friend that calls me a 'hippie' when that happens. Hah.


@Friendzone: I tried this once, when I was a young teen... I regret acting in the way I did though. Well, she had kissed me the day before friend-zoning me, the mood being all romantic and stuff, so there's that... But I was still all too hasty at the time. I stopped contacting her overnight in anger and confusion. Today, I'd just be like 'oh well, friends we are', after about a week to a months depression. Yes, I can be THAT over-sensitive.


@Japan: They've got a bit of a matriarchy over there. They have housewives like we used to, with the simple plot-twist that the women gets all the money that the man earns, and the man only gets what the woman gives to him. As a result of this and many other socially skewed stuff, men have begun to become 'herbivores', meaning that they abstain from romantic or sexual contact with all real women in order to avoid trouble, financially as well as legally.

On the other hand, women have to be paper-thin (even worse than over here), and they have to adhere to extreme social standards. Eating with widely-open mouth is a flippin' social taboo. >.<

Anyway, as the result, many women do not want to get a job in the first place. Instead, they want a rich husband. Like, literally - about 80% of all women in Japan would never marry someone poor, even if they were in love.

The above shouldn't be taken as an argument, more than it should be taken as a string of random facts that I randomly felt like typing out in the middle of the night because I was immensely bored and probably should do my homework... *cough*

 

[Ruphhausin]

I think you mean, lunge, Laa.

There is no lunging or lounging on my part. I just relate simple truths. I don't think natural times getting emotional is wrong, but a grown woman acting like a fool over things like not getting her favorite flavor Pop Tarts or you refusing to let her by something when it cannot be afforded.. or to try to make you look like an abusive ogre because you told her no about something or you have facts on your side of a "discussion" is reason to tell them to stop. Not every woman acts like that, nor acts in the way of abusing the rights that women, like many on there, I will add, obviously know they deserve and do deserve, but even a few acting that way hurts others who don't. Again.. crying over a really good book or movie that touches them.. something that hits a cord of the heart and/or soul, tears in pain and joy, those special times and that "time".. you bet I shut up, let my baby shed and hold her. Someone crosses a line, I screw up, or someone lies to her and so forth... She is allowed to scream, throw things, and rant. Etc. concerning the other emotions as well, because I live in a real world and socialize with real women as much as possible.

You are correct. Women do have to put up with people questioning their morality because of their clothing, but more than a few men don't because they are MEN, not guys. I know that not every women wearing a skin tight dress or whatever is "looking/asking for it", but we men are labeled with the idea as always thinking that way. A woman decides she doesn't want to have kids, yes she does need to have a good reason, but if she doesn't feel kids are in her desires she needs to live her life. Feeling uncomfortable walking places.. that is why certain laws need to be better enforced, and real men need to step up as well. I have never been called a woman for not watching sports, and I in fact think all athletes are beyond overpaid for what little they really do.

About the dreaded "zone" I have said my peace, and I stand by what I have said before: I don't mind it happening, as that is the way things happen. I just have watched women go near Alex from Fatal Attraction over getting that same treatment, so that is that. It is stupid, especially, as I also said, that much of the time the "zoning" is for either stupid or overly biased reasons (namely that perfect "type" or "man who doesn't exist") Men do that to, not removing the blame.. just saying that to make it clear that it is not always misunderstandings.

About Japan.. considering they produce some of the most misogynistic porn and anime... not going to get into tap dancing on that minefield.

 

[LadyLarunai]

Depending on who you talk to all porn is mysogynistic..

I still dislike that word from a literal standpoint...

 

[Ruphhausin]

I mean from a standpoint beyond what some on here would call it that.

 

[Kenkay]

Bravo. Bravo. Or to sum it up in more simple terms.

http://this.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/389490_296780930360180_741266334_n.jpg

that ladies is what male privilege feels like.

 

[Risky]

What a lot of people don't actually realize is that Men have the same, if not more struggles than women in first world countries today, which is what MRA or Men's Rights Activists are constantly attempting to point out, but Radical Feminists end up blocking out their points with an impenetrable wall of bullshit. Here are some statistics.

Women are more likely to get full custody in a divorce case.

Women in Canada actually have two more constitutional rights than men do.

Women can commit the same crime as a man, and get half the sentence that man does.

Annually, 240,000 women are raped in the United States, but in prisons alone, 100,000-140,000 men are raped annually.

77% of combat related deaths are men.

Of all suicides, 80% are men annually.

There was an experiment commenced in Sweden that actually proves benefits of Feminists worst enemy: Patriarchy. On a show similar to Survivor, ten women were placed on an isolated island while ten men were placed on another island, the men immediately got started on building a shelter and fought for a little while over what jobs needed to be done before the jobs were done, by the end of day 1, they had everything they needed to survive on the island. However, on the women side of things, they sat around and talked, and for the entire day, got completely nothing done. To allow the women a chance of survival, as they had run out of food by the first week, the show sent three men to the women's island and three women to the men's island, with similar results. The men got to work on a shelter and food while the women sat around. This proves that men have a better chance at surviving in a group, and women pretty much wouldn't know what they're doing, not exactly to say that this goes for ALL women, but it definetely is some interesting data.

Along with this, men are constantly bullied by the so called "Equalists" that are feminists, the definition of their cause is the social, political, and economical equality of ALL sexes, but in reality if you are white, straight, and a male, you are in some serious trouble. Men are being harassed on social media sites, and even in real life, there are multiple videos depicting about how violent feminists can get when they do not get their way, a good example being the Red Barron, who is notorious for cursing out people who try to have simple discussions with her about her beliefs. Another prime example is the arrest of a Burger King employee who was charged with vandalism and assault towards two men who were protesting abortion of male fetus' or otherwise known as the #KillAllMen conspiracy. The employee destroyed the signs that they made, got up into their faces and started to attack them, luckily two officers on bicycles were nearby and made a quick and clean arrest of the woman.

I also find it difficult to believe that Slut Walks are beneficial in any way, there are women who claim to have been raped, and then go to these walks wearing the most provocative clothing possible, and also claiming they didn't even press charges against their rapist. It's terrible that feminists focus on tiny first world problems when there are worse things happening elsewhere. A beneficial feminist march happened in the city of Baltimore, it was addressing and promoting the United States to send in a team to evacuate hostages taken by the notorious warlord groups of Northern Africa, all of the hostages were women who wanted to go to school, but were kidnapped because of the Traditional Law.

There are way bigger problems in the world, and these people are making themselves look completely terrible, and constantly hurting men who don't deserve it, while also taking attention away from bigger problems.

Don't believe me? In 2014 Beyoncé, and several other celebrities spent around $4 million U.S. Dollars to fund the campaign #BanBossy, a petition to ban the word bossy in the United States, or to stop people from using it in general. This campaign took attention away from the new Iraqi, and Middle Eastern laws that follow as this: Woman who leave their house without the company of their husbands will be executed. Women cannot drive without a life sentence in prison, and last but not least, the Malala shooting.

 

[randomthingslover1]

I live in India, where the prejudice against woman is really exhausting
True, 50% of Indians have modernized while 50% are still living in the misery of baseless superstitions.

I once read about a case, where a village panchayat gave a punishment to a lower cast girl to take seven rounds of the village, naked.Her only crime:Trying to run away with aupper class boy.What better explains the inequality females are facing?

Taking examples of the much more developed Indians, people here still seem to blame the women for almost every thing that is happening.
If a girl gets raped, she is blamed for wearing provocative clothes.
If she is clad in a burkha, then her fault is that she choose to get out of the house after sunset.

When people want to take revenge from a guy, they go for physical pain.But for agirl the first thought they have is,"Hey, she got tits andholes to fuck.So let's just put her through both physical and mental agony"

No doubt, both the men as well as women are subjected to various kinds of evils due to their gender, but from what I have seen and experienced is that women are often made to suffer more.

 

[Risky]

I live in India, where the prejudice against woman is really exhausting
True, 50% of Indians have modernized while 50% are still living in the misery of baseless superstitions.

I once read about a case, where a village panchayat gave a punishment to a lower cast girl to take seven rounds of the village, naked.Her only crime:Trying to run away with aupper class boy.What better explains the inequality females are facing?

Taking examples of the much more developed Indians, people here still seem to blame the women for almost every thing that is happening.
If a girl gets raped, she is blamed for wearing provocative clothes.
If she is clad in a burkha, then her fault is that she choose to get out of the house after sunset.

When people want to take revenge from a guy, they go for physical pain.But for agirl the first thought they have is,"Hey, she got tits andholes to fuck.So let's just put her through both physical and mental agony"

No doubt, both the men as well as women are subjected to various kinds of evils due to their gender, but from what I have seen and experienced is that women are often made to suffer more.

Hey, no offense to you or your country but it is a third world country, and the thing I am attempting to say that feminists in the first world country are bitching about their problems and taking the focus away from third world nations where there is actual woman misery, so I completely agree that woman are blamed for stupid reasons, but also in the US there are women who have been raped and then decide to wear little to no clothing while walking and protesting 'Rape culture' when it is nonexistent in the United States, which goes along with male privilege, they believe that because men are.. Men, we have more privileges than we do in many cases in a first world perspective, which then takes focus off of third world issues that should have a higher priority so that people can bitch to each other until the sun turns off.

 

[randomthingslover1]

I live in India, where the prejudice against woman is really exhausting
True, 50% of Indians have modernized while 50% are still living in the misery of baseless superstitions.

I once read about a case, where a village panchayat gave a punishment to a lower cast girl to take seven rounds of the village, naked.Her only crime:Trying to run away with aupper class boy.What better explains the inequality females are facing?

Taking examples of the much more developed Indians, people here still seem to blame the women for almost every thing that is happening.
If a girl gets raped, she is blamed for wearing provocative clothes.
If she is clad in a burkha, then her fault is that she choose to get out of the house after sunset.

When people want to take revenge from a guy, they go for physical pain.But for agirl the first thought they have is,"Hey, she got tits andholes to fuck.So let's just put her through both physical and mental agony"

No doubt, both the men as well as women are subjected to various kinds of evils due to their gender, but from what I have seen and experienced is that women are often made to suffer more.

Hey, no offense to you or your country but it is a third world country, and the thing I am attempting to say that feminists in the first world country are bitching about their problems and taking the focus away from third world nations where there is actual woman misery, so I completely agree that woman are blamed for stupid reasons, but also in the US there are women who have been raped and then decide to wear little to no clothing while walking and protesting 'Rape culture' when it is nonexistent in the United States, which goes along with male privilege, they believe that because men are.. Men, we have more privileges than we do in many cases in a first world perspective, which then takes focus off of third world issues that should have a higher priority so that people can bitch to each other until the sun turns off.

This topic is not bound alone to your "first world country".
It is a free topic and simply ignoring one part of it, however small it might be, doesn't helps you strengthen your view.

P.S-My first post was not a reply to your post, it was a general statement and my opinion based on what I see on a daily basis

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

Calling India 3rd World feels a bit dis-ingenious considering how it's going to rise in economic power within the next century, it really only falls within 3rd World if we keep up the old Cold War distinctions.

Another interesting thing is that all those things that men suffer of more is not a result of feminism, but of the established culture that feminism would seek to alter. The saner of them look for equality of the sexes, not to swing the pendulum entirely the other way.