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Male Privilege and Female Stigma

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Ruphhausin

Supernova
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Rudolph Quin said:
Ruphhausin said:
As for the dreaded "friendzone".... that is why "sister-zoning/mom-zoning" exists. I just have always thought it absolutely hilarious that happens and the female has a "right to get upset".. um.. fuck no you don't.
It's amazing... It's like you completely don't get anything I said.

What? So, the "sisterzone(which I have never heard of, by the way)" is a one-upmanship? "Hey, you females aren't the only ones who get to decide who gets the sex! Ha!" Really? Coming from the guys who are the most motivated to want it? See, the point of the friendzone, since it flew over your head, is that men get fixated on getting sex from a relationship and feel like being told a woman is not interested in at the exact time they are(because the level of intimacy changes for some women depending on how long they know someone and can trust them) is a complete rejection forever, when it's not. The reason they get upset as a result of that is because that's what they really wanted from the relationship and being just friends(even if it's really a temporary state after all) isn't worth their time.

Alternatively, a guy tells me I'm like a sister to him and I'm complimented. You know why? Because even if I was looking to eventually get serious with him, that wasn't the top of my fucking list and I still value him for the person he is. Get it?

Um.. RQ... no.. I didn't misinterpret.. and yes, that does exists.. but no, it is not about any kind of one-upsmanship. It is about hypocrisy. You may find it a compliment, but lets be honest.

First, most females "friend-zone" because they do only want to be friends.. but more often than not some do it with the motive of also like having at least one "spare mount" in the barn. Second, it is A BOLD, BALD FACED LIE that only men want sex like you are saying.., and the foundation of some of what this thread is about, Rudolph Quin is LACK OF HONESTY IN COMMUNICATION (and thank you for validating that femi-fascist bullshit is still alive and well, btw). Third, depending on your age, you may find it a compliment to be seen like a guy's sister, or even like a mother.. but the truth is that it happens just like when the friend-zoning happens.. NO COMMUNICATION. Most guy don't get mad because "they want to sleep with every woman they know" but they "get friend-zoned", because that is "women's magazine" bullshit that rarely if ever tells the truth unless there is empirical evidence making them.. just like some men's magazines. They get mad about it when they are led to believe that there is substance for a relationship that is more than friendship.

I understood exactly what you said, all too well. I have been zoned by women who have been honest, and they are still my friends to this day. But I also have been "zoned" by women thinking just like I have described.. and it so doesn't work for me and I don't play that game. I don't want to sleep with every woman I met or know, nor do I retaliate like a child when I get turned down or zoned. But what I WAS SAYING is that I know women who have "zoned" for the motivations I have listed who the guy was not into them for that and just "saw them like a sister/mother"... and they have lost it worse than the "guys" I know as contrary to the adult men and women who take it the way is is supposed to be.

The stigma is not about retaliation, I say again.. but about the hypocrisy of behaving and acting like the men they condemn.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ookami said:
I admit that not as much attention is paid to the predator, but how many times have you heard someone say “The guy’s innocent, she provoked him so it’s all her fault?”
I don’t think the ‘penalty’ for the guy should lessen based on provocative clothes or anything, but predators select their targets. They not constantly preying on others and dragging them into alleyways 24/7, so if there’s a feature that attracts them, working to build awareness can’t hurt can it?
The thing about this is that you're forcing the victim to figure out what about them made someone rape them, and that's where victim blaming comes from. Some rape to teach a lesson, some rape because they liked how that person moved, some rape because the person had just the right amount of freckles or just the right shade of blonde hair. Predators have set things that set them off that aren't predictable. It's like telling girls with blue eyes to wear contacts because some guy might want to rape them because of it. What should be taught is to defend yourself and yes, try to be a little smarter, but also to teach boys and girls that no one owes them anything, least of all their bodies whether they are sober or drunk, and that they aren't special snowflakes like that messed up Steubenville case.
 

KCRiley

Moon
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Location
Estate of Unrest
Life is pretty sweet for women, these days. We have all kinds of career opportunities and earning potential handed to us, an artificially uneven playing field in all the jobs we actually want, the government bending over backward to help us with our financial burdens, and punishments for female criminals that often amount to standing with your nose in a corner for time served, while blame for our behavior is shifted onto The Patriarchy. Men are still expected to buy us dinner, even when they earn less than we do, and if one dares to raise a hand against us, we have the monopoly on DV shelters and programs, and an application of the law that is almost always unbalanced in our favor. We have all the say in reproduction, from our right to abortion to the leeway to decide exactly how and how much the father of our children will be allowed or forced to contribute to their well-being. We've even seen due process almost completely done away with when it comes to accusations of rape and sexual assault.

And if you're a white woman, you're in the safest race-sex demographic there is, yet everyone's convinced we're in constant danger and seems to care about our safety vastly more than that of anyone else—especially those dopey, hairy ones with the dangly genitals.

Apparently, I'm a god damn princess, which would be pretty cool if my tiara wasn't made of blood diamonds.

As for female stigma? Seems to me like males are treated like defective females in school, portrayed as bumbling grunts beside intelligent string-pulling women in entertainment media, and subject to more innate disdain in society in general. Even down to the genitals, females are beautiful almost by default while males are kind of silly-looking at best.

Yeah, I'm not much into this male privilege and female stigma thing.
 

Rave

Star
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Location
Land Before Time
KCRiley said:
Life is pretty sweet for women, these days. We have all kinds of career opportunities and earning potential handed to us, an artificially uneven playing field in all the jobs we actually want, the government bending over backward to help us with our financial burdens, and punishments for female criminals that often amount to standing with your nose in a corner for time served, while blame for our behavior is shifted onto The Patriarchy. Men are still expected to buy us dinner, even when they earn less than we do, and if one dares to raise a hand against us, we have the monopoly on DV shelters and programs, and an application of the law that is almost always unbalanced in our favor. We have all the say in reproduction, from our right to abortion to the leeway to decide exactly how and how much the father of our children will be allowed or forced to contribute to their well-being. We've even seen due process almost completely done away with when it comes to accusations of rape and sexual assault.

And if you're a white woman, you're in the safest race-sex demographic there is, yet everyone's convinced we're in constant danger and seems to care about our safety vastly more than that of anyone else—especially those dopey, hairy ones with the dangly genitals.

Apparently, I'm a god damn princess, which would be pretty cool if my tiara wasn't made of blood diamonds.

As for female stigma? Seems to me like males are treated like defective females in school, portrayed as bumbling grunts beside intelligent string-pulling women in entertainment media, and subject to more innate disdain in society in general. Even down to the genitals, females are beautiful almost by default while males are kind of silly-looking at best.

Yeah, I'm not much into this male privilege and female stigma thing.
Preach girl, preach.

Someone give this woman an award.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
I love how we are obviously looking at America, right? Or maybe England? Maybe even Canada?

Try...Egypt, where American women are told not to go because it's I dunno...75% likely you'll get gang-raped? Or in the middle east where you can't go anywhere without a male escort? That if you get raped, it's your fault? And that they have Honor Killings for their daughters because, man, Western culture is the devil incarnate.

Or the fact that women still make less money than men do on average? Or try Japan, where male babies are usually treasured above girls because they carry on the family name/legacy?

Or...even today where women are still considered not as intelligent as men in the field of math and science?

A large portion of the male populace believe women are around to honestly look good for them and be pretty for them, and appreciate whatever compliments are thrown at them, because...they obviously just live for men, right?

Here's an article about it, mostly because I giggled at some of the lines.

http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

Oh, and it's written by a guy.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
"Pointing out that men are privileged in no way denies that bad things happen to men. Being privileged does not mean men are given everything in life for free; being privileged does not mean that men do not work hard, do not suffer. In many cases – from a boy being bullied in school, to a soldier dying in war – the sexist society that maintains male privilege also does great harm to boys and men."

Just to quote the article because it does make some very fine points.
 

Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
There's a difference between feminists and feminazis. Basically all the pictures you painted are from extreme views.

Women still get paid less. Sexual harassment has become such a joke that you can't even compliment someone because someone might take the slightest offense [mostly women.] Women still get called cunts, sluts, and whores for wanting or having sexual independence. Men are called heroes for being single dads while women are still looked down on for being single mothers. Men are also called sexual deviants and that they "can't get raped" because they obviously want it all the time [which is not true, derp.]

Women in corporations who are at the top obviously slept their way to it, or they are cold-hearted bitches for being in control. Men still call women "frigid bitches" when they try to reject any come ons in bars or in public because "They should be more appreciative of a male taking interest," regardless of if they want it or not. Men in politics still seem to think they are doctors and women have no idea how to take care of their own bodies. Men are also considered unmanly if they don't plow as many women as possible or play sports or drink as much as their friends, etc.

Each side has problems, short-comings, and blatant disregards for equality. The reason the military has lower standards for women is because a majority are literally not strong enough to reach the higher demands that a male's body can handle. They weren't allowed on the front lines because they didn't want to see women get killed and that because they were women, they obviously couldn't fight as well or as "rationally."

Not every woman wins in a divorce case. Not every man does either. Not everyone gets the same amount of pay, or is treated the same at work, regardless of who they are.

if you are a humanist, then that should of been your point instead of trying to thrust extremes into the situation to make it more valid. Back in the day, women and men had separate meeting rooms because "The women aren't smart enough/too emotional" to handle that kind of talk. It wasn't considered rape by your husband because you were married. Women had to marry their rapists. Women were property exchanges, if you don't know what a dowry is I suggest looking it up.

We've come very far from that, and yes, there are a lot of women now who have taken that movement and twisted it into something like "male punishment." More men are starting to report rapes, divorce is like candy, and a lot of people don't try to make things work because they can have whatever they want. Some kids don't know common sense because their parents spoil them rotten since they were just so oppressed.

So yes, there are a lot of lingering stigmas and male privilege is still prominent, but it's definitely not what it was.
Actually as of this year, it is official that women make more than men, of course i heavily doubt feminists will ever acknowlege that, need to maintain their "victim status" afterall.
 

Raika

Star
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Ookami said:
I admit that not as much attention is paid to the predator, but how many times have you heard someone say “The guy’s innocent, she provoked him so it’s all her fault?”
I don’t think the ‘penalty’ for the guy should lessen based on provocative clothes or anything, but predators select their targets. They not constantly preying on others and dragging them into alleyways 24/7, so if there’s a feature that attracts them, working to build awareness can’t hurt can it?
The thing about this is that you're forcing the victim to figure out what about them made someone rape them, and that's where victim blaming comes from. Some rape to teach a lesson, some rape because they liked how that person moved, some rape because the person had just the right amount of freckles or just the right shade of blonde hair. Predators have set things that set them off that aren't predictable. It's like telling girls with blue eyes to wear contacts because some guy might want to rape them because of it. What should be taught is to defend yourself and yes, try to be a little smarter, but also to teach boys and girls that no one owes them anything, least of all their bodies whether they are sober or drunk, and that they aren't special snowflakes like that messed up Steubenville case.
But the thing about that is, that sort of happens with most criminal cases anyway. My friend's place got broken into recently, and the first thing she said was that things would have been different if she'd been home. (Criminal does not immediately mean violent rapist, though the possibility things could have been worse does exist.)

If someone gets punched for having a night out in the city and dies as a result. The deceased is still cast into the spotlight.
Even in one-sided assaults, people look to see if there was any provocation or inappropriate behavior.

Getting drunk is a choice unlike the other examples you listed. And if a girl got raped for having blue eyes then there's nothing anyone can say about that. But if a girl gets drunk by choice, that's akin to walking carelessly into a dark alley full of thugs and expecting to come out unscathed.

By no means am I saying that such a person deserves to be raped. Crime is inappropriate regardless of circumstances. I honestly feel like the 'victim' mentality is being stretched out far too much. This isn't even about female stigma as much as it is about poor choices.

Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
I love how we are obviously looking at America, right? Or maybe England? Maybe even Canada?

Try...Egypt, where American women are told not to go because it's I dunno...75% likely you'll get gang-raped? Or in the middle east where you can't go anywhere without a male escort? That if you get raped, it's your fault? And that they have Honor Killings for their daughters because, man, Western culture is the devil incarnate.

Or the fact that women still make less money than men do on average? Or try Japan, where male babies are usually treasured above girls because they carry on the family name/legacy?

Or...even today where women are still considered not as intelligent as men in the field of math and science?
I'm assuming you yourself live in the western world for the above comment. One of the statements have already been refuted, but the part in red seriously made me laugh. The sentiment isn't completely outdated and inaccurate. The Nazi party of Germany is more active than this belief. I'm nearly tempted to ask if you also think that Japanese people are also "honorable" and carry around samurai swords.

Obviously there are some Japanese families that prefer male children, and that rate might be higher than families that want female children. But this claim is just a poorly placed jab at a situation which can hardly even be considered an issue. 

Being fluent in Japanese, I actually just google'd the matter, and it actually turns out that the posts I've read actually favor female children. I won't deny that there are people that want male children. But not a single one of them is likely to be using "family name/legacy" as their reasonings.

Family legacy.... Hah xD
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ivory11 said:
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
There's a difference between feminists and feminazis. Basically all the pictures you painted are from extreme views.

Women still get paid less. Sexual harassment has become such a joke that you can't even compliment someone because someone might take the slightest offense [mostly women.] Women still get called cunts, sluts, and whores for wanting or having sexual independence. Men are called heroes for being single dads while women are still looked down on for being single mothers. Men are also called sexual deviants and that they "can't get raped" because they obviously want it all the time [which is not true, derp.]

Women in corporations who are at the top obviously slept their way to it, or they are cold-hearted bitches for being in control. Men still call women "frigid bitches" when they try to reject any come ons in bars or in public because "They should be more appreciative of a male taking interest," regardless of if they want it or not. Men in politics still seem to think they are doctors and women have no idea how to take care of their own bodies. Men are also considered unmanly if they don't plow as many women as possible or play sports or drink as much as their friends, etc.

Each side has problems, short-comings, and blatant disregards for equality. The reason the military has lower standards for women is because a majority are literally not strong enough to reach the higher demands that a male's body can handle. They weren't allowed on the front lines because they didn't want to see women get killed and that because they were women, they obviously couldn't fight as well or as "rationally."

Not every woman wins in a divorce case. Not every man does either. Not everyone gets the same amount of pay, or is treated the same at work, regardless of who they are.

if you are a humanist, then that should of been your point instead of trying to thrust extremes into the situation to make it more valid. Back in the day, women and men had separate meeting rooms because "The women aren't smart enough/too emotional" to handle that kind of talk. It wasn't considered rape by your husband because you were married. Women had to marry their rapists. Women were property exchanges, if you don't know what a dowry is I suggest looking it up.

We've come very far from that, and yes, there are a lot of women now who have taken that movement and twisted it into something like "male punishment." More men are starting to report rapes, divorce is like candy, and a lot of people don't try to make things work because they can have whatever they want. Some kids don't know common sense because their parents spoil them rotten since they were just so oppressed.

So yes, there are a lot of lingering stigmas and male privilege is still prominent, but it's definitely not what it was.
Actually as of this year, it is official that women make more than men, of course i heavily doubt feminists will ever acknowlege that, need to maintain their "victim status" afterall.
So you basically skipped over everything else just to point that out? That's a little asinine, if I do say so myself. Oh well.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ookami said:
Even in one-sided assaults, people look to see if there was any provocation or inappropriate behavior.
There is no inappropriate behavior/amount of provocation that should be considered for inciting rape. It's the same as getting beaten up by your husband because you said he was an asshole and gave him the finger.

Ookami said:
Getting drunk is a choice unlike the other examples you listed. And if a girl got raped for having blue eyes then there's nothing anyone can say about that. But if a girl gets drunk by choice, that's akin to walking carelessly into a dark alley full of thugs and expecting to come out unscathed.
Actually, I don't see people getting drunk as some holy grail of rape, and I'm honestly tired of seeing people use that as an excuse for why someone was raped. "Well, she had poor judgment and she was obviously intoxicated!" And yet the person who raped her wasn't, so there's some disconnect, right? I mean, shit, I see internet memes with the quote: "If she passed out drunk at your house, what would you do?" All the guys who post say RAPE. That should say something to you. It can be a joke, but come on, it's not like the date rape drug was invented so people could have a great time, well, only one person would in that scenario.

Ookami said:
By no means am I saying that such a person deserves to be raped. Crime is inappropriate regardless of circumstances. I honestly feel like the 'victim' mentality is being stretched out far too much. This isn't even about female stigma as much as it is about poor choices.
You were trying to compare an apple to an orange. Having your house broken into is completely different from having your body violated. "Oh, if I was home then..." is a 180 from "He said he liked my eyes so he raped me." Or whatever else someone comes up with.

Rape predates clothing and intoxication, so please, get a better argument. As I said, yes, getting smarter about things is a good step, but also teaching people "It doesn't belong to you" is probably one of the best things to teach, especially since, no one owes you shit is a very important life-lesson. Life sucks, get a helmet. Some of the victim-mentality has gone too far, especially since saying "Rape" can ruin someone's life when in fact it was consensual. However, saying a 16 year old who's friends got her drunk/drugged her drink because she turned down football players who then proceeded to gang-bang her and take footage/pictures, and cops/judges from other COUNTIES had to be brought in because of the favoritism given to said boys shows how bad cases like those get. And they are growing in frequency. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth just as bad as the women who scream rape just to get back at their exes or someone who turned them down.


Ookami said:
I'm assuming you yourself live in the western world for the above comment. One of the statements have already been refuted, but the part in red seriously made me laugh. The sentiment isn't completely outdated and inaccurate. The Nazi party of Germany is more active than this belief. I'm nearly tempted to ask if you also think that Japanese people are also "honorable" and carry around samurai swords.

Obviously there are some Japanese families that prefer male children, and that rate might be higher than families that want female children. But this claim is just a poorly placed jab at a situation which can hardly even be considered an issue. 

Being fluent in Japanese, I actually just google'd the matter, and it actually turns out that the posts I've read actually favor female children. I won't deny that there are people that want male children. But not a single one of them is likely to be using "family name/legacy" as their reasonings.

Family legacy.... Hah xD

-shrugs- So my sentence is outdated in a country where it used to be a big thing, my bad. I can at least say it is instead of giggling and going, "She made a mistake! lolz."

Considering the suicide rate is still incredibly high, being fluent in japanese doesn't mean jack diddly, especially in an argument talking about the culture and not the language.

Maybe try a little harder to insult me? It makes me chuckle. :3

Also, your statement I bolded? Try looking down South where football/sports is like politics. Or at this article about China!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/11/world/asia/11china.html?_r=0

But on another note:

Disregard article, acquire nothing?

I see how it is. And after all that trouble of looking for it. Sigh.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/gender-wage-gap_n_3941180.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/09/1839281/on-equal-pay-day-why-women-are-paid-less-than-men/

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

Still think that women don't make less? Maybe it's not 77 cents, but it still isn't the same amount.
 
V

Vic Rattlehead

Guest
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Here's an article about it, mostly because I giggled at some of the lines.

http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

Oh, and it's written by a guy.
So? The "man" is obviously a white knight who willingly got castrated or castrated himself, in order to become a mangina. I'm all for people being treated equally under the law (though unless the Borg absorbs us, we'll never be equals), but hating your own gender is too much for me.
 

Rudolph Quin

Mistaken for some sort of scoundrel
Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Location
here
Vic Rattlehead said:
So? the "man" is obviously a white knight who willingly got castrated or castrated himself, in order to become a mangina.
~As is the case with all men who agree with women about anything. Whipped!

As a sidenote, though, there was nothing useful about that character assassination, so, let's stay on topic and have an actual discussion. This is an important topic with a lot of polarity and we can be adults and look at it without getting defensive or personal about things. If you have something to say about the believability of the article or it's author, then feel free to post a link or bring it up as a point.
 
V

Vic Rattlehead

Guest
Its obvious that he hates his own sex, just by reading the article. Hes acting like men purposely go out of there way to discriminate women. That and a lot of the points are bull shit. That and he acts like men being victims is so rare that it practically never happens. I could go on and on, but it would take all night.

#30 - Right because men cant be assholes or bastards.

#32 - Oh grow the hell up already. Man and men are completely different, unless you think were called humans because of the patriarchy.

#33 - Right because you'll always make rational decisions under such conditions as PMS

#34 - Funny how I know a lot of women who didn't change their maiden name.

#38, 39, and 40 - What about stay at home dads?

#42 - Bull fucking shit as a man, I know full well the pressure of having to be muscular.

#43 - Maybe because men are less likely to report being raped or beaten? After all society instills in us to be some macho man and it would be embarrassing, to be raped or beaten up by a girl. I love how when a female teacher rapes a boy we think the boy was lucky, but when the roles are reversed we feel bad for the girl.
 
V

Vic Rattlehead

Guest
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Vic - If you read the entirety of the article and not just the list, he even says that privilege =/= not suffering.
Yes I saw that, but to me it feels like hes patronizing violence again men acting like it doesn't matter because its less reported.
 

Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/gender-wage-gap_n_3941180.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/09/1839281/on-equal-pay-day-why-women-are-paid-less-than-men/

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

Still think that women don't make less? Maybe it's not 77 cents, but it still isn't the same amount.
dont forget that men are expected to pay for meals, pay for drinks, pay for dates...

that 77 cents is really going to her, in fact if the man wanted to do the above mentioned things, he would need to be payed around 3.80 more per hour.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ivory11 said:
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Also:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/gender-wage-gap_n_3941180.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/09/1839281/on-equal-pay-day-why-women-are-paid-less-than-men/

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/gender_pay_gap_the_familiar_line_that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

Still think that women don't make less? Maybe it's not 77 cents, but it still isn't the same amount.
dont forget that men are expected to pay for meals, pay for drinks, pay for dates...

that 77 cents is really going to her, in fact if the man wanted to do the above mentioned things, he would need to be payed around 3.80 more per hour.
Expected? Men usually offer because...oh my, doing things like that get you laid! Ho shit. A new concept.

I usually say I'll split the bill or buy my own drinks.

Still doesn't excuse jack shit. Make a better argument.
 

Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
Ok then, how about this?

Pregnancy, in the western world, if a woman becomes pregnant and is employed, the employer is expected to give her anywhere from 3 months to a year (and if she has a lawyer, longer than that) of full pay without work, this simple fact gives incentives to business not to pay as much as male employees, who statistically, call in less sick days, stand around talking less, have no risk of maternity leave, are more likely to return sooner after an injury, more likely to do a bit outside their job jurisdictions to help and more, so it makes sense that men would be paid more, to businesses they are a much better investment.


You call this "sexist" but you know what? i wouldn't want to hire a woman, not knowing she's 3 months pregnant, then have to pay a year of maternity leave with the strong possibility of her being away even longer, I've seen it happen with my own eyes, it's not sexism, it's business.

Here, i suggest you try reading this.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2013/08/13/why-women-still-earn-less-than-men-its-the-kids-fault/

and about the 77 cent pay wage gap (actually it's meant to be "77 cents to the dollar) so it's only 33 cents feminists are crying over the world about) which you're so up in arms about (unlike the issues that i pointed to above, like the lack of male shelters, the 20-1 unsheltered homeless population, university graduates and more) yeah, the pay gap is a load of complete horseshit too.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704421104575463790770831192


Of course feminists would NEVER acknowledge this, they need to keep churning out their eternal victim status, it's their only trump card.

the fact is, women are paid more, for less work than men, on top of amazing priviliges which even men in the 1800s could never dream of having, and yet there is this thread "Male privilege" as if men in the western world are privileged in any way even somewhat close to how women in our society are privileged.


and don't just ignore my points in this and focus on like, 3 words in my whole post.
 

Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
I strongly suggest you read through some of this
http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com.au/
this is an anti-feminist FEMALE blogger who usually brings out very good points on this matter, i highly suggest you send her a message and ask for a bit of dialogue.

this is her youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat
 

Ruphhausin

Supernova
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
I said it before, and I will say it again.

What ruins it for the women who really are needing their rights defended and all, you have the demagogues... the Al Sharptons and Jessie Jacksons of "feminism" who have nowhere to go, so they exaggerate and distort. Sorry. I don't apologize for calling it like it really is. Gets some people mad, but sometimes, you have to give it the simple title that it deserves. Hypocrisy.

Also, Ivory11, if I agree with nothing else you have put up here, then I will agree with you for posting that blog link, whose title is what it is all about. It is about women not wanting to own their own shit that perpetuates this argument out of all realistic proportions.


"The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off." Too bad that Gloria Steinem hasn't been taking that to heart much these days..... seeing how she said that.

"What's right isn't always popular. What's popular isn't always right." Howard Cosell was right there... too much of what is right is not popular at all.... especially with some so-called "feminists".
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ivory11 said:
and don't just ignore my points in this and focus on like, 3 words in my whole post.
Why not? You've done it~

You act like making a baby is like boiling water, wrong.

If having a uterus is somehow a liability, I'll gladly take a disability check and find a stay-at-home job.

Kidding, kidding.

And nah, I won't message her. I know what owning my own shit means. I don't live in some rose-colored bubble.


Also, that link, just proves that people don't want women to have kids if they want to be paid better, which is an interesting concept since some males still think that women should always be barefoot and preggo!
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Ivory11 said:
the fact is, women are paid more, for less work than men, on top of amazing priviliges which even men in the 1800s could never dream of having, and yet there is this thread "Male privilege" as if men in the western world are privileged in any way even somewhat close to how women in our society are privileged.
Please tell me you've watched Titanic? No?! You should.
 

Rudolph Quin

Mistaken for some sort of scoundrel
Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Location
here
Ivory11 said:
the fact is, women are paid more, for less work than men, on top of amazing priviliges which even men in the 1800s could never dream of having, and yet there is this thread "Male privilege" as if men in the western world are privileged in any way even somewhat close to how women in our society are privileged.
Look, bro, it seems like you don't understand what male privilege even is, so, let me help clarify.

[T]rue gender equality is actually perceived as inequality. A group that is made up of 50% women is perceived as being mostly women. A situation that is perfectly equal between men and women is perceived as being biased in favor of women.

And if you don’t believe me, you’ve never been a married woman who kept her family name. I have had students hold that up as proof of my “sexism.” My own brother told me that he could never marry a woman who kept her name because “everyone would know who ruled that relationship.” Perfect equality – my husband keeps his name and I keep mine – is held as a statement of superiority on my part.

In this case the inequality is perceived, in part, because taking one’s husband’s name is considered “normal” for a woman, whereas choosing to keep one’s own name deviates from that. Popular culture often labels this behavior as “emasculating” to a man, but never bothers to question how a woman might feel being asked to give up something that has been part of her since her birth. This is an example of a culture of male privilege — where a man’s position and feelings are placed above that of the woman’s in a way that is seen as normal, natural, and traditional.

The vast, vast, vast majority of institutions, spaces, and subcultures privilege male interests, but because male is the default in this culture, such interests are very often considered ungendered. As a result, we only really notice when something privileges female interests.
I know, as men, it is sometimes hard for us to see our own privilege. It's a tricky concept.

Most people do not think twice about a woman who shares the same name as her husband; they simply assume that the shared name is his family name. This is an illustration about how male privilege operates in stealth. When a wife does not share the same name as the husband, however, it often leads to confusion and even anger — as Lucy’s example illustrated. This is because the male-oriented option (wife taking husband’s name) is seen as default, and the neutral option (both parties keeping their original names) is a deviation from that norm and therefore comes across as privileging the woman because it doesn’t privilege the man.
It's not about hating one's gender or being emasculated for a man to recognize that a lot of things we consider normal in society actually benefit men over women. By the way, emasculation is an idea perpetuated by the patriarchy to keep the status quo. That by yielding a bit of our inherited and engendered advantages, we lose the ability to call ourselves "real men". Which is bullshit.

All quoted passages are from this blog article: http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/
 
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