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Male Privilege and Female Stigma

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Vic Rattlehead

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Women are also are sentenced to 40% less jail time (average) compared to men for the same crime under the same laws. Also more men die on the job than women.
 

Rudolph Quin

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KCRiley said:
Rudolph Quin said:
I know, as men, it is sometimes hard for us to see our own privilege. It's a tricky concept.
This goes for everyone.
Most things that are considered "female privilege" are actually just consequences of impositions put on men because of the patriarchy. Women aren't holding us to these standards, other men are.
 
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Vic Rattlehead

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Warning! Major butt hurt will occur if you don't read this correctly. While yes rape does happen, there are still men's whose lives are being destroyed, after falsely being accused of rape. When women falsely accuse men of rape nothing happens to them, but men don't share that fate. Do you feminists and white knights believe Halloween was created by the evil patriarchy to objecify women, are will you admit women actively objectify themselves?
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Halloween was brought forth by Samhein, which originated in pagan society. Then it was adapted by Christians. Costumes were designed to scare away the dead, then over time it was to be celebrated as a fun holiday for children, and now its for everyone. Some women openly objectify themselves for attention because it is the only way to get attention. However, even now, society depicts how women should dress less your morals be questioned.
 

Rudolph Quin

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Vic Rattlehead said:
Warning! Major butt hurt will occur if you don't read this correctly. While yes rape does happen, there are still men's whose lives are being destroyed, after falsely being accused of rape. When women falsely accuse men of rape nothing happens to them, but men don't share that fate.
Feminists do not support false rape accusations because it is one of the things that makes it so much harder for women who were actually raped to get justice.

When a woman is raped, they ask what she was wearing, how she was dancing, if she was drinking. The victim is attacked as much as the alleged rapist is, sometimes even more. And the victim is also attacked by her peers, whom many times are quick to judge her as an attention seeking whore. Mix that with the rape and post traumatic disorder and you have a real life ruiner right there.

What people judge in rape trials: If the woman actually wanted to have sex and is just a lying slut - usually confirmed by the fact that she has many sexual partners, drinks, has fun, dresses provocatively.

What people should be judging in rape trials: The rapist’s past sexual conduct, and general attitude towards women. Showing signs of misogyny, past accusations, past relationships, his character. And the victim’s past in LYING.

Because if a woman had many sexual partners before accusing this man of raping her, this should not make her case weaker. If anything, it should make her case stronger, because duh, look at how many men she had consensual sex with, and never tried accusing them of anything.

Given that we live in a world where 54% of rapes are not reported to police and 97% of accused rapists never go to jail, the fact that some women lie about rape isn’t exactly the most pressing conversation we need to be having.

http://www.rainn.org/statistics
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Also: This isn't a rape thread. There's a few already in this section of the boards. While it can be used as a topic for making points, it is not the basis of this thread.
 
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Vic Rattlehead

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“The main argument of my book is this: we can aggravate crime by tempting fate, and we curb it by playing safe. We have come to acknowledge it is foolish to leave laptops on the back seat of the car. We would laugh at a bank that stored sacks of cash by the front door. We would be aghast if an airport badly skimped on its security…. Our forebears might be astonished at how safe women are today given what throughout history would have been regarded as incitement … they would be baffled that girls are mostly unescorted, stay out late, often get profoundly drunk and sometimes openly kiss, grope or go to bed with one-night stands.” - Nick Ross
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/28/is_rape_legitimate_if_she_dresses_provocatively_one_author_argues_yes/

Honestly I agree with him, yes rape is a heinous and terrible crime, but it can be prevented. Sure you can lock your car door and someone could just smash your window, but it would take more time and it would be loud, drawing attention.

Since were posting links and do research, I did some of my own lets begin shall we.

1. Men are being raped more than woman. In prison 300,000 males per year are raped. While we don't know how many men outside of prison are raped,300,000 plus X > 240,000 of women being raped. Why is women getting raped is more important than men getting raped? Hell we even joke about male rape in prison.

2. Female violence against male is funny, but if reversed is serious business. In today's media its okay for men to be the butt of the joke or be used as a punching bag. Why is it a female can use history of domestic abuse to get away with a crime, but a male cant? Why aren't men protected against domestic abuse, via law? Why is it okay for a woman to hit a man, but as soon as he hits her, hes a woman beating piece of shit? Why are boys told not to hit girls, but girls aren't told to hit men?

3. Women falsely accusing men of rape, is protected by society while the male is left out in the cold. Up until recently news outlets couldn't name the false accusers, in order to keep them safe. Like you said we should be protecting the victim, but the victim of false accusation of rape is the accused, not the accuser. In college as long as 50% believe the accused raped someone, the person can be expelled.

"Research shows that women excel in relational and psychological aggression. In fact, women engage in psychological aggression more than men (Muñoz-Rivas, et al, 2007) and their use of physical aggression is nearly equal to men (Parity, 2010). A 2000 meta-analysis found that women are slightly more likely to commit physical aggression while men are slightly more likely to injure their partner overall (Archer, 2000). Two-thirds to three-quarters of aggression in relationships is bi-directional (i.e., both partners are aggressors)."

I could go on and on, but the WOMAN who wrote the article does a better job than I do.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/our-so-called-rape-culture/
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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To make a point: Here's a few questions for you guys.

1. Has anyone ever questioned your morality because of what you wear? Of whether or not you are "asking for it" or somehow it depicts your sexual availability?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

2. If you say you don't feel like having kids and just want to enjoy your life, do people call you selfish or question your masculinity?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

3. Have you ever felt unsafe simply walking down the street alone to a friend's house at night? Or that you feel uncomfortable walking alone to places in general?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

4. If you don't care to watch sports, do people call you a woman? Or question your masculinity?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.

5. If you get "overly emotional" do people tell you to quit acting like such a girl?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.


If you just basically deny that any of this is true, you certainly need to take off the rose-colored lenses. There are always going to be gender differences, that's just a fact. However, there is a point where it's beyond simple differences.
 
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Vic Rattlehead

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You cant overgeneralize a whole gender.

1. I wear band shirts all the time with some having demons or what have you, and I'm often asked if I'm a satanist. Whats the point of having a lock on the door, when theft is illegal?
2. Nope.
3. Yes men can be victims of violence or man on man/woman on man rape too, but keep telling yourself otherwise.
4. Nope people don't care that I don't like sports.
5. Don't get overly emotion, so no comment.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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When did I ever say that men weren't rape victims or victims of violence? However, you also didn't answer the rest of my first question and simply answered what worked for you.

Not once have I said men aren't rape victims. I advocate that shit because some people honestly have said, "Men can't get raped! They always want sex!" Bzzzzt. Wrong.

Women are, however far more likely to experience rape/violence, which was my point, but keep telling yourself that I'm skipping over men. Very few of my guy friends think twice about walking at night alone.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Since some people have put down personal experiences, I'll put my own involving the site itself:

Almost every person who has waltzed into chat, who didn't know me, assumed I was male. Why? It's the internet. Girls don't live on the internets! They assumed I was male because of my mannerisms [which I don't believe are particularly masculine or feminine] and attitude. People who also message me as a member seeking out a mod call me "sir/dude/guy" etc.

My picture is on the site. It clearly shows I have a pair of tatas and a cute feminine face.

Why? Because society. Men are usually in positions of power or happen to be more outgoing/loud than women.

I play along because it can be hilarious. I also find it sad especially because I don't actually hide my gender/sex on the site.
 

Raika

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Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
To make a point: Here's a few questions for you guys.

1. Has anyone ever questioned your morality because of what you wear? Of whether or not you are "asking for it" or somehow it depicts your sexual availability?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

2. If you say you don't feel like having kids and just want to enjoy your life, do people call you selfish or question your masculinity?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

3. Have you ever felt unsafe simply walking down the street alone to a friend's house at night? Or that you feel uncomfortable walking alone to places in general?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

4. If you don't care to watch sports, do people call you a woman? Or question your masculinity?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.

5. If you get "overly emotional" do people tell you to quit acting like such a girl?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.


If you just basically deny that any of this is true, you certainly need to take off the rose-colored lenses. There are always going to be gender differences, that's just a fact. However, there is a point where it's beyond simple differences.
Wow, I'm impressed you could even come up with such a pointless, one-sided list.

1: Not exclusive to women. The sexual aspect is definitely far more prominent in women, but clothes are clothes. If a guy was walking around topless in a nightclub he's either had too much to drink or thinks he's hot stuff. Furthermore, a lot of guys would be sickened if it was standard for men to expose as much lower body skin as women these days choose to.
Can't point in favor of either gender for this one

2: If a man doesn't get a wife and have a family he's either a loser, or homosexual. If a man says he doesn't want to work on behalf of three people (Wife, child, self) he's definitely labeled selfish, as men are still seen as the people that have to support the family. Female workers are on an increase, but in most cases both parents have to work.
Question is one-sided and invalid

3: Plenty of times. :/ Rape isn't the only crime in the world you know. Chances of getting assaulted or robbed are probably more likely than being raped. Hate to break it to you, but most women don't leave the house each day thinking "Oh my god I could get raped today, I better be careful."
Just a silly question.

4: Right, and if a woman doesn't stay at home and spend their lives cooking, cleaning and knitting their accused of being unfeminine right? Seriously I don't even know what you're even trying to prove anymore.
LMAO just LMAO! xD

5: I could get told to 'stop being a girl'... or I could be told to 'man up.' Either way getting emotional is apparently as exclusive right given to women or something @_@
Was this a counter comparison? This one attacks men more than it does women :/
 

Raika

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Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
Since some people have put down personal experiences, I'll put my own involving the site itself:

Almost every person who has waltzed into chat, who didn't know me, assumed I was male. Why? It's the internet. Girls don't live on the internets! They assumed I was male because of my mannerisms [which I don't believe are particularly masculine or feminine] and attitude. People who also message me as a member seeking out a mod call me "sir/dude/guy" etc.

My picture is on the site. It clearly shows I have a pair of tatas and a cute feminine face.

Why? Because society. Men are usually in positions of power or happen to be more outgoing/loud than women.

I play along because it can be hilarious. I also find it sad especially because I don't actually hide my gender/sex on the site.
Honestly, I've been getting the vibe for awhile now, but I can't help but start thinking you're what someone around here calls a 'femi-nazi.'
Blowing this way out of proportion and trying to extract meanings and interpretations that don't even exist.

First off, how is your example even illustrating a privilege or a stigma or any sort? Does being called a man degrade your value as a person or something?

I've interacted with a lot of people online over the years, and while I haven't exactly been keeping a tally, I'm pretty certain I've come across more guys than girls. There's a 50/50 chance the person will be a guy, (personally I'd say more than that) and frankly the assumption works out more times than it fails.

Obviously some people can be distinguished as a female from their username/avatar/sig etcetc.
Your picture is on the site? Uhh good for you?
I don't know where you people store your selfies, but if it's not in a place that's obvious, then don't expect people to look at it? I really hope you're not suggesting that everyone should look through your post history/research you profile before coming to you for staff related business? Last time I checked, people contact staff for staff-stuff. Not female staff for one thing, and male staff for another.

Just checked your profile to see if an image was there, and I noticed you've even gone to the trouble of setting your own gender status to "Undisclosed" >_>

I don't actually familiarize myself with staff members and their gender, but I actually feel like there's more female staff here then men xD That said, I could be mistaking guys to be girls.... furthermore I don't even know how many staff members this place even has.

Either way, the 'assumption of male' is more a general attitude thing, and is unlikely to have anything to do with 'positions of power.'

I'll admit it though, I've been thinking that you're a guy the whole time too, and while I don't intend this to be offensive, I also get the above-average masculine vibe from the way you type. (It has nothing to do with being vocal, I know a LOT of females online that can get very vocal)

-----
I'm really hoping the original (quoted) post was supposed to be laced with sarcasm I missed or something, because if you were being serious..... >_>

EDIT: Had this point in my head, but forgot to include it. (Note: Below comments do not reflect my personal beliefs)
-If what you're saying above makes any sense, I'm assuming that using terms like "Central/Eastern Standard Time" should be considered racist. >_> Cause, you know, the rest of the world doesn't actually operate on those time systems.

-Or maybe using the term 'dollar' in an RP should be scrutinized as well? It wouldn't be fair to automatically adapt the dollar currency into an RP without consulting everyone else now would it now?
 

Nihilistic_Impact

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Would someone be a dear and compile all the arguments in favour of woman actually having more privileges post them all together. I'd like to see it presented in a singular coherent manner as this threads has traversed numerous subjects.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Lol at Feminazi comment. I like wearing bras and low-cut shirts/skirts and being rowdy~ Feminazis would ask why I'm "giving into the system." That was pretty cute though.

Otherwise, I just glanced over whatever you put.

The "general assumption that people are usually male" on the interwebs is kind of a no-brainer if you actually look it over. Why assume most people on the interwebs are male in the first place? Why assume at all? I'm just curious.


Oh, and my list was based off the one I posted from an article. Because it's so terribly, terribly one-sided. You're adorable. <3
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Ookami said:
Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
To make a point: Here's a few questions for you guys.

1. Has anyone ever questioned your morality because of what you wear? Of whether or not you are "asking for it" or somehow it depicts your sexual availability?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

2. If you say you don't feel like having kids and just want to enjoy your life, do people call you selfish or question your masculinity?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

3. Have you ever felt unsafe simply walking down the street alone to a friend's house at night? Or that you feel uncomfortable walking alone to places in general?

If the answer is no: Point in favor of men.

4. If you don't care to watch sports, do people call you a woman? Or question your masculinity?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.

5. If you get "overly emotional" do people tell you to quit acting like such a girl?

If the answer is yes: Point in favor of men.


If you just basically deny that any of this is true, you certainly need to take off the rose-colored lenses. There are always going to be gender differences, that's just a fact. However, there is a point where it's beyond simple differences.
Wow, I'm impressed you could even come up with such a pointless, one-sided list.


4: Right, and if a woman doesn't stay at home and spend their lives cooking, cleaning and knitting their accused of being unfeminine right? Seriously I don't even know what you're even trying to prove anymore.
LMAO just LMAO! xD
It's not so pointless if you still managed to answer it~

And what about not having children or not changing their name? Choosing a career over a family? You basically came up with the generic argument that everyone assumes is the the "TWUE WAY TO FEMALE." I know several stay at home mums, and kudos to them. Also look into Gypsy culture, it's pretty old-school and down to what "used to be the norm" for every day society.

Cute. Or you can just laugh, either way, I find it hilarious how you don't make many points at all and just giggle.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Ookami said:
I don't know where you people store your selfies, but if it's not in a place that's obvious, then don't expect people to look at it? I really hope you're not suggesting that everyone should look through your post history/research you profile before coming to you for staff related business? Last time I checked, people contact staff for staff-stuff. Not female staff for one thing, and male staff for another.

Just checked your profile to see if an image was there, and I noticed you've even gone to the trouble of setting your own gender status to "Undisclosed" >_>
This is where you got beyond adorable. My picture is in Post Your Face. If it is really that hard to find, I'll even link it to you.


Trouble? What trouble? It's been like that forever. You make it sound like I sobbed over choosing.

And you missed my point, again. See? That adorableness is showing. I never said they "contacted male/female staff for this or that." I said they assume that I'm male without even considering the possibility that I might not be. Hell, it's happened even after I corrected people. It's so funny. :3

Hm. I guess people don't understand FOR SCIENCE very well.

I guess Decepticons are pretty masculine. Except Starscream. He's a little bitch.

Nihilistic_Impact said:
Would someone be a dear and compile all the arguments in favour of woman actually having more privileges post them all together. I'd like to see it presented in a singular coherent manner as this threads has traversed numerous subjects.
Uterus = the ultimate of privileges given.

Tadah. List.
 

Ruphhausin

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I WAS going to leave it alone.. but sorry....



Nihilistic_Impact said:
Would someone be a dear and compile all the arguments in favour of woman actually having more privileges post them all together. I'd like to see it presented in a singular coherent manner as this threads has traversed numerous subjects.
Uterus = the ultimate of privileges given.

Tadah. List.
[/quote]

Um.. no.... That doesn't really cut it though.

That is just as bad as saying "men are sperm donors, and now that we have science we don't need you". That is not what you were saying.. but no.. that is not going to be a "Tadah" of anything. I don't think I totally agree with all of the arguments on either side.. but that right there.. nah.. no. That is not the ultimate of privileges. That made Sarah Connor sound like a nut in T2, and doesn't make it work in every aspect on here either.

There, I said it. Now the flaming and butthurt can begin.
 

Raika

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I started writing another tailored response, but then I realized... why bother?
The thread started loosing the 'enlightening discussion' aspect a long time ago. Any points made in opposition to TC's views aren't even being explored with most comments being shut down immediately by a voluntary choice not to answer them. Final post from me here I guess, so here goes~

Not even bother going to quote messages now since it's in the last three posts, but it's 'cute' how you're complaining about people seeing you as male, and saying the assumption shouldn't even exist. And yet you're sitting there expecting people to stalk the 'Post-Your-Face' thread in order to figure out your gender. Typical victim mentality. Unfortunately the world doesn't revolve around you, and most people couldn't give a **** what you looked like, or what gender you are when interacting with you (especially as a staff member).

I can support equal rights
I can understand that somethings need to be directly addressed regarding female issues.
I can't support feminism, because it's not about fairness anymore in most cases. In fact I view it more as a obnoxious religion more than anything else. It undoubtedly has a few valid points, particularly in developing countries. But it's the extremist views that always stand out more than the valid ones. And when someone starts getting desperate, pointing towards anything and everything and trying to make it seem like some huge damned issue, when there actually isn't any substance to the argument being made.

I am actually a bit disappointed in myself, I should have noticed the intention of this thread when I read the title. Stigma.... lol xD

Being complete honest and open. I actually wonder if you're a lesbian? Not that it matters or anything, and I certainly don't intend that to be a insult. It just seems like you have a deep hatred towards the male gender. Don't feel pressured to answer that either, I'm not actually curious, it was just a thought that popped up in my head while interacting with you. I do apologize if this was inappropriate, but the thought was there, and I couldn't see a reason not to put it down.

The intention of this thread clearly isn't to 'discuss' ideas. And quite frankly I'm leaving this thread with a more hostile opinion on the concept of 'female rights' (or lackthereof) to the point where I feel I can bluntly state:
The movement for 'female rights' is tasteless and mislead in its entirety.
My opinion on 'equal rights' however remains unchanged in the sense more needs to be done regarding discrepancies, within reason.

It's at the point where 'some' women are trying to counterbalance male sexists by becoming female sexists themselves. And unfortunately two bad's don't equal a good.

This thread can be brushed away by a one-liner post. (well technically two).
KCRiley said:
Rudolph Quin said:
I know, as men, it is sometimes hard for us to see our own privilege. It's a tricky concept.
This goes for everyone.
 

Ruphhausin

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I got it.. but we all know some people didn't.. and take that serious. Playing devils advocate always gets me in trouble.. but sometimes you have to do it anyway.... lol
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

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Ookami said:
Being complete honest and open. I actually wonder if you're a lesbian? Not that it matters or anything, and I certainly don't intend that to be a insult. It just seems like you have a deep hatred towards the male gender. Don't feel pressured to answer that either, I'm not actually curious, it was just a thought that popped up in my head while interacting with you. I do apologize if this was inappropriate, but the thought was there, and I couldn't see a reason not to put it down.
See, you apologized, in my opinion, because you couldn't own up to your own assumptions. Now, if I was a man-hater, like you've so claimed, I'd rub your face all over it, but since I'm not, let me just clarify why I've been calling you 'cute.'

You've missed every ounce of sarcasm I've posted, which is fine and all, but lacking common sense is a bit much, even for me to swallow.

Being a lesbian, if I was one, has nothing to do with hating men. It has to do with loving females and their wonder spots called vaginas.

I don't "feel pressured." I just find it laughable you bring it up and then apologize and then say "don't feel pressured to answer or anything!" Which is...what's it called...typical male fashion to make it feel like somehow it's my fault you came to this conclusion, right? That's what I should say, right?

Nah, I just think you lack the proper sense of intelligence to understand that I like fucking guys, I grew up with guys, but I don't, for one second, think the world is in harmony and everyone is singing Koom-by-yah by the fire pit at night with guitars and marshmallows.

Nice try though. I'll tell my lover that he thinks I hate him. :3
 
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Vic Rattlehead

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Even though I don't agree with Hahvoc, I think you went overboard with calling her a femnazi and lesbian, Ookami. Its not like shes saying cis male scum should die or anything of the sort.
 
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