Question Why does BMR allow underage characters?

[Lady Bloody Ava]

The mention of a troubled youth is still allowed, but laying it out in detail is what is what the rule is for.

 

[Galisenae]

Further, even if people was getting off to these stories, studies prove that outlets allow the predator a safe space, which in return, keeps children safe. Sexual aggression tends to uptick when people started being holier-than-thou and begin banning material and outcasting others in a stigmatic way – as some have chose to do today.

I thought this was common sense that hardly needed to be pointed out, much less studied. Perhaps i am simply far more keenly aware of the phenomenon, given that i am one of the kinds of people in which it effects. It was thanks to my previous forum that i was able to get a strangle hold on my numerious and extreme anti-social tendacies. I was allowed to explore any and all topics to my hearts desire, torture, loli, beastiality, snuff, you fucking name it, i probably tried it. I grounded myself in reality by filtering what was acceptable in said reality thought the medium of fantasy, a medium in which there was no victim. And i did all this without any conscious knowlage of it happening, i was not aware that i was broken until i had become well(ish). I am probably one of the most extreme cases you can find and i effectively fixed myself, simply because people left me the fuck alone and did not metaphorically lock me in the prison of my own mind.

As such it utterly sickens me that people are so firmly jammed up thier own backsides that they would have actively denied me the chance to become "normal", and are potentially doing exactly that to countless others, just because of a momentary and fleeting sense of disgust over something that was never any of thier god damn business to begin with. It is the very peek of intollerance, the very depths of stupidity, miring us all in the swamp of thier selfishness.

 

[Sync]

The mention of a troubled youth is still allowed, but laying it out in detail is what is what the rule is for.

I get that, and thank you for clarifying it (again ).

 

[Saber]

Further, even if people was getting off to these stories, studies prove that outlets allow the predator a safe space, which in return, keeps children safe. Sexual aggression tends to uptick when people started being holier-than-thou and begin banning material and outcasting others in a stigmatic way – as some have chose to do today. Probably why it is so mainstream in the media.

Kutchinsky studied pornography compared to the incidence of sex crimes in Denmark, most notably child molestation:


Diamond analyzed the incidence of sex crimes (rape) in Japan, Shanghai and the US associated with the availability of sexually explicit materials (SEM). He focused on “Japan, a country quite different from those in the West. In regard to pornography, in Japan the swing from prudish and restrictive to relatively permissive and nonrestrictive was dramatic. Some limited data from Shanghai and new data from the United States follow“. He was particularly interested in Japan, because:

Currently , not only are visuals with pubic hair and exposed genitalia present, but available are cartoon images of hard-core sexual encounters in manga as well as in adult reading materials. These can be pictures and stories involving bestiality, sadomasochism, necrophilia and incest; the characters involved may be adults, children or both. Essentially, anything goes.“

He concluded that:

It is certainly clear from the data reviewed, and the new data and analysis presented, that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan, the United States and elsewhere has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so, among youngsters as perpetrators or victims.

This is coming from a purely observant/subjective stance, so try not to take too much offense and I will tag @Galisenae in this as well.

To be fair, you are quoting, what I can assume are professionals in their field. The problem you are going to face in public forums like this, other than perhaps reddit which I would highly suggest you both do to start a discussion for yourself and your trauma if you haven't already, is that this site is not a site of professionals. Your partners aren't here to analyze and ease your trauma through writing (except your girlfriend maybe, which means you could write with her anywhere if you chose to leave). They don't know if you're self-inserting into your RPs for "therapeutic" purposes. No one on this site is responsible for another's trauma or their healing. Regardless of whether this site helped you or now, which if if it did, that's great, it still has a firm stance on pedophilia and hebephilia that will not budge regardless of scientific study. If you or anyone else on this site have those urges to do anything in real life and are consciously aware, professional help should be sought.

Writing fiction is completely different. Do members here write out their kinks and fantasies? Of course, myself included, but I am personally not here to try and relive or process any past trauma. Again, this is a privately owned site and as in real life, freedom of speech is allowed, but not freedom from repercussions. You can say what you'd like on the site, but if it breaks the rules, it breaks the rules.

As such it utterly sickens me that people are so firmly jammed up thier own backsides that they would have actively denied me the chance to become "normal", and are potentially doing exactly that to countless others, just because of a momentary and fleeting sense of disgust over something that was never any of thier god damn business to begin with. It is the very peek of intollerance, the very depths of stupidity, miring us all in the swamp of thier selfishness.

The problem is, and as I've stated before, this isn't a momentary or fleeting sense of disgust, and once you get on a public forum to lay your kinks and fantasies out for everyone (ie: request thread or otherwise) it becomes any of your potential partner's business. The question I've asked before in my replies is, why do you think the rule had to be adjusted? It wasn't a whim of the staff to suddenly addendum a rule, and it was not done lightly.

 

[Praxis]

I would've thought it would be common sense that pushed for a higher age limit. This being one of, if not the only, site that allows children, seems like reason enough to discuss the possibility of a change. That is (as has been suggested in this thread), if they're going to go somewhere, it may as well be here, because there's tools and procedures to catch them (there's really not. No more than on Reddit at least. Also, Reddit has more money and resources at their disposal).

It's wonderful, truly, that some of you here are mature, balanced and healthy enough to write stories about children having sex/adults having sex with children, but sadly, you represent a small minority of the population with such predilections. Put it on good faith, or whatever basis helps you most, but don't ignore the reality that: perverts and fledgeling pedophiles exist here. They're a portion of those some 2,000 unique profiles, and there's nothing stopping them from joining. If anything, the age limit encourages them to sign up here. They create profiles, introductions, engage in stories, and even thrive here, unless they are reported and summarily dealt with. Which, again, comes down to a human factor. It comes down, in some cases, to a member clicking the report button after someone has suggested questionable content. And, even then, there's a layer of red tape to encourage not getting caught again, as opposed to ... stopping the problematic behaviour.

If nothing else, realize that a preference for you, can be something damaging for someone else. That the allowance of this freedom leaves the door wide open for actual predators who aren't interested in "normal" and only want to exercise their sickest fantasies. Noble effort, but all of the jack-off fiction on the internet isn't going to fix that.

edit: inb4 "adolescents"

 

[Lydia]

Some could argue this is pretty firm: the national age of consent in the US (and the rest of the world) is 16. You can be 20 and still be far from an adult. At 16, most are experimenting sexually. The hormones are there and so is biology–I remember those times quite well. My grandparents got married before eighteen, so did many until 1970's when adulthood was changed to meet the longevity of our lifespans, not our Tanner charts.


Yes. That's why I joined, by reading rules and guidelines that clearly stated the content I could/would encounter and be free to explore. As you did, as well, I am sure. It was a privilege I was eager to attempt for artistic freedom and providing a deep-dive into things that upset me to bring awareness and try and understand it.


I have children, can confirm a stark difference from 12 to 15, but okay.

You certainly aren't developed the same. By 12, you've probably started and passed small scale stages of puberty, typically at 15 it has peaked.

Most girls develop pubic hair from ages 9-14. By 15, they've completed the Tanner scale chart of sexual maturity/puberty. 15-18 being scale III, I believe. Like Veks said, pedophiles aren't allowed here and are unattracted to tanner stage III and IV.

At 12, chances are you might not have developed all your permanent teeth, as that usually happens by age 13.

At 17, you may not be an "adult", but you can legally get married, join the military, and drop out of school. Can't drink alcohol though, so how much of an adult are you at 18? You gain more rights at 17 than you do your 18th birthday, such as having a full drivers permit.

By consent, on average, you can legally marry starting at age 16. Not 12.

The average first sexual engagement in American's is age 15 years:
The average age of first sexual intercourse (or sexual debut) was 15.6 years. Males reported earlier ages of sexual initiation than did females (Figure 1). Twenty-two percent of males reported sexual initiation between 10-13 years, while 16% of females reported the same.

I bring this up because, well, there are tons of reasons why there is a difference between 12 and 15. Just because you find someone attractive who has peaked maturely is not the same as getting attracted to someone who hasn't or has only started to become a sexually mature adult.

@Lydia, you also claim the same feelings and emotions are the same. I disagree here too. No, no they are not. Getting molestated at age 15 (or younger) by a family member is NOT the same as being coerced to perform sex for a job promotion at age 20+. Survivors are not the same. There is a different impact the younger the victim, sadly. Getting groped at 20 is not the same as at 12, having never been touched or may not even know it was wrong or even know you're a victim until later down in your life, where at 20 you clearly understand what is happening, etc.


For you, but not everyone. Obviously, I respect your opinion but deeply concour. To be fair, you opted for the standard when you joined. Banning and witch-hunting (calling them pedophiles) people isn't a good standard. A higher standard would be to allow those exploring these topics (for more reasons than one) to go about their day peacefully without scrutiny and ridicule or risk their material getting banned.

A lot of these stories are with my girlfriend, so yeah, it is personal to me. I care more about my material and memories than anyone's opinion of me. Could care less if I never wrote under 18 again, honnestly. Nor do I care to be labeled a pedo by a stranger. They are free to blow me I'm their adult years. But years of work getting lost? Nah, fuck that. I'll defend that to the day I die. It is mine.

The day it isn't abundant and running rampant in our current culture, then maybe it will set a higher standard. Star Wars, The Walking Dead, Lolita, The Blue Lagoon, Flowers in the Attic, 120 days in Sodom, Natural Born Killers, The Professional, Interview with a Vampire, The Basketball Diaries, Pretty Baby, A Boy And His Dog, The Girl Next Door, Megan is Missing, Taxidriver, The Godfather, I mean it is endless and everywhere and ironically sells–for more reasons than pedophelia. You could literally go all day long nitpicking this in popular media and finding new ones.

The same goes for music, yeah? Art? Definitely. Literature? By the tons. All day long. One was just published. Another is in production.

Further, even if people was getting off to these stories, studies prove that outlets allow the predator a safe space, which in return, keeps children safe. Sexual aggression tends to uptick when people started being holier-than-thou and begin banning material and outcasting others in a stigmatic way – as some have chose to do today. Probably why it is so mainstream in the media.

Kutchinsky studied pornography compared to the incidence of sex crimes in Denmark, most notably child molestation:


Diamond analyzed the incidence of sex crimes (rape) in Japan, Shanghai and the US associated with the availability of sexually explicit materials (SEM). He focused on “Japan, a country quite different from those in the West. In regard to pornography, in Japan the swing from prudish and restrictive to relatively permissive and nonrestrictive was dramatic. Some limited data from Shanghai and new data from the United States follow“. He was particularly interested in Japan, because:

Currently , not only are visuals with pubic hair and exposed genitalia present, but available are cartoon images of hard-core sexual encounters in manga as well as in adult reading materials. These can be pictures and stories involving bestiality, sadomasochism, necrophilia and incest; the characters involved may be adults, children or both. Essentially, anything goes.“

He concluded that:

It is certainly clear from the data reviewed, and the new data and analysis presented, that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan, the United States and elsewhere has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so, among youngsters as perpetrators or victims.

So yeah, better here than anywhere.

Upon reviewing the guidelines put in place, I think @Vekseid did a great job at keeping it 15 and up. It shows he put a lot of thought and time and experience on the subject that I think many may lack. The partners I've had have all been somewhat professional, and didn't give me a creepy vibe whatsoever. This place isn't near as cringe on other sites that allow 15 and even younger. I for one appreciate the creative freedom I am allowed.

From here forth, I'll be sure to tag my stories so not to trigger anyone. I didn't know it was as upsetting to some as say, violence or rape, so I'll be more mindful. I'm not here to upset people, but simply mind my own buisiness. I think tags and warnings are a far better approach than banning or stifling freedom of speech/expression. And even though we don't have full freedom of speech here, I mention it because of how the US government sees this subject. Is it art, freedom of expression, or is it obscenity? I like to think my writing isn't pure smut or even cybersex, as I for one don't seek it for sexual thrill as I do for an emotional one as a writer, not a would-be child rapist.

Nothing left to say from me other than no hard feelings; sorry some got upset. I think your cause is both noble and foolish. Thanks for reading. ^^

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my point: I was not arguing that there are no developmental difference between children ages 12-15, I was arguing that someone interested in writing pedophilic stories about children (not teenagers), would be drawn to a site where the established age (15) is already below the widely-recognized legal age of majority/adulthood (18) because it seems more accepting and permissive than other sites where both users and characters must be above 18. In my experience on staff, it was very common that rule 4 offenders advertised publicly for stories about 15 or 16 year-olds, then pressured their partners to age down more.

(But, for the record, the age of consent is 17 or 18 in about half of US states, and for federal purposes, most laws that touch on criminal sexual acts involving minors establish that age as 18, with some exceptions for local laws. For example, even in a state with 16 as the age of consent, it is still a crime to make porn with someone under 18.)

As for the rest, many modern researchers don't take much stock in studies that rely on statistics about pornography and sex crime convictions prior to about the year 2000. As we all know, the entire landscape of porn changed with the rise of the internet, and sex crime convictions have long been a poor indicator of the reality of abuse, as the vast majority of sexual assaults are not reported, and even fewer are prosecuted (and this was even more true in the 60s-90s, where the studies you link primarily focus, when the laws/social attitude/treatment of victims differed significantly from present-day).

In the end, there are few themes - other than the specific kink of banging a minor - that cannot translate to an 18 year-old character with some consideration and creativity.

 

[hades.]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my point: I was not arguing that there are no developmental difference between children ages 12-15, I was arguing that someone interested in writing pedophilic stories about children (not teenagers), would be drawn to a site where the established age (15) is already below the widely-recognized legal age of majority/adulthood (18) because it seems more accepting and permissive than other sites where both users and characters must be above 18. In my experience on staff, it was widespread that rule 4 offenders advertised publicly for stories about 15 or 16-year-olds, then pressured their partners to age down more.

You don't seem to understand what pedophilia is–it's the attraction to prepubescent characters. At 12, you can make them underdeveloped; by 15, though, there is no exception. You have adult teeth, hair down there, boobies, etc. Someone who is involved in lolicon isn't attracted to womanly features such as hair, boobs, adult teeth, etc.

So if people have clear boundaries, they won't. If they are unattracted to prepubescent characters, or signs of prepubescents.

I've been here four years. No one has ever asked me to go lower. Not here, not on discord. Those people should be banned, and it is the job of the staff to do so. If these are things they don't wish to handle, it may not be the right role for them?

But, for the record, the age of consent is 17 or 18 in about half of US states, and for federal purposes, most laws that touch on criminal sexual acts involving minors establish that age as 18, with some exceptions for local laws. For example, even in a state with 16 as the age of consent, it is still a crime to make porn with someone under 18.)

No, it isn't, for the record. As a quick google search concludes: 34 states is 16. The remainder is 17/18. Writing a RP with an adult is not porn involving a minor.

As for the rest, many modern researchers don't take much stock in studies that rely on statistics

Why put stock on any research when personal opinions constitute the absolute? You can say anything is "fact" by talking out of butts, it hardly makes it true. The fact remains (and is extensive) that it lowered sexual crime, not increased. It really is that simple, which is why bans and such have lowered in our country, not increased. You can write anything, a 11yo romance with a 80 yo creep and publish it today. There was a time this wouldn't fly, but it is accepted now mainly because politicians use research to conclude their opinions, not their emotions.

 

[Lydia]

Why put stock on any research when personal opinions constitute the absolute? You can say anything is "fact" by talking out of butts, it hardly makes it true. The fact remains (and is extensive) that it lowered sexual crime, not increased. It really is that simple, which is why bans and such have lowered in our country, not increased. You can write anything, a 11yo romance with a 80 yo creep and publish it today. There was a time this wouldn't fly, but it is accepted now mainly because politicians use research to conclude their opinions, not their emotions.

There's absolutely no research out there (including the studies you linked) that prove causation between porn (including sexual depictions of children) and lowered sex crime instances - and ALL of them acknowledge that. At best, there may be a correlation, and even that is up for debate. There are other studies that suggest different correlations.

It's interesting that you think literature didn't include sexual situations with people under 18 prior to our modern era.

As for the rest, you don't seem to understand my point, as you continuously respond to a different issue entirely. I think I've said enough on this topic, and it's all mostly a waste of time, since you'll still be totally free to write about characters 15-17. Enjoy.

 

[Galisenae]

The problem is, and as I've stated before, this isn't a momentary or fleeting sense of disgust, and once you get on a public forum to lay your kinks and fantasies out for everyone (ie: request thread or otherwise) it becomes any of your potential partner's business. The question I've asked before in my replies is, why do you think the rule had to be adjusted? It wasn't a whim of the staff to suddenly addendum a rule, and it was not done lightly.

How absolutely pathetic. Your petulent whims are none of my concern, nor should they be, if you do not like something that you see, then clearly it is not for you. That does not give you license to censor it, and no matter how much you would like to demand otherwise, your offence is indeed fleeting, and less than meaningless. If you simply cannot control yourself and insist jamming your fingers into the lives of others, might i suggest you get off the internet? You future clearly lies more in politics, Mr. Jack Thomson.

I could not possible care any less about what reasoning you people have for anything you do, i simply want your noses out of my business. Is that really so much to ask?

I would've thought it would be common sense that pushed for a higher age limit. This being one of, if not the only, site that allows children, seems like reason enough to discuss the possibility of a change. That is (as has been suggested in this thread), if they're going to go somewhere, it may as well be here, because there's tools and procedures to catch them (there's really not. No more than on Reddit at least. Also, Reddit has more money and resources at their disposal).

If nothing else, realize that a preference for you, can be something damaging for someone else. That the allowance of this freedom leaves the door wide open for actual predators who aren't interested in "normal" and only want to exercise their sickest fantasies. Noble effort, but all of the jack-off fiction on the internet isn't going to fix that.

If we are talking about an age limit which restricts who can and cannot make an account here, then i question why is was not 18+ to begin with, and why no one has reported this site to whatever jurisdiction it falls under. If we are talking about the ages in which people are allowed to make thier charaters, once again i ask, who the fuck are you to dictate? It is fantasy, there should not be a limit, there is no victim and thus no crime, kindly get your meddling fingers out of other peoples business.

I could not possibly care any less about what is damaging to others, if someone is so frail that they need everyone around them to bend to thier whims for the sake of thier own mental health, then that is decidedly their problem and they should not be here. Yes, if a real life pedophile wants to come here and start up an RP about the kidnapping, drugging, raping and toruring to death of a two year old boy, then let them. Better they let that out here on the internet, than letting it out at thier local school. It doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt me, no matter how offended we would both be at such content. Simply put, your offence is not worthy of anyone elses consideration, much less to those who you would censor.

 

[small package]

Two quick general points:

1) The rules were on the front door before you joined. If they were really that abhorrent, why join?

2) Have you just tried not writing 15 year old characters?

 

[Yoga Princess]

No one is talking about age limit to join. I'm pretty sure there is no questioning the 18+ rule to join.

 

[Kassia]

1) The rules were on the front door before you joined. If they were really that abhorrent, why join?

A great question!

For myself personally, BMR was one of the only RP sites that had a generally nice community. Other communities I've joined were rude or they had very little engagement. Once Covid hit and the site was flooded with people looking to pass the time, and it seemed, at least to me, that it became a haven for those looking for more uncomfortable topics.

Over time as I continued my writing here I'd be messaged for these types of RPs and when I expressed my lack of interest was treated terribly for it. It's simply not my kink. I shouldn't feel pressured to play a character i'm uncomfortable with. I'd love the age to be increased just to limit the amount of people messaging others like me.

However, I also understand that I can look the other way too (and report/block people) as I've mentioned in my previous posts ^^ just some insight on my opinion regarding this issue.

 

[Saber]

How absolutely pathetic. Your petulent whims are none of my concern, nor should they be, if you do not like something that you see, then clearly it is not for you. That does not give you license to censor it, and no matter how much you would like to demand otherwise, your offence is indeed fleeting, and less than meaningless. If you simply cannot control yourself and insist jamming your fingers into the lives of others, might i suggest you get off the internet? You future clearly lies more in politics, Mr. Jack Thomson.

I could not possible care any less about what reasoning you people have for anything you do, i simply want your noses out of my business. Is that really so much to ask?

Rules are rules, they're every where and most are followed. If you can't follow the rules there are repercussions. If this was a fleeting thing, there wouldn't be a need for discussion, clearly. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else on this site, but as a member of staff I do actually have to see everything that is going on within the site. And as stated before, this is a privately owned site so it does indeed give the staff license to censor if they do not coincide with the rules. If you aren't breaking any of those rules we will indeed stay out of your business.

I could not possibly care any less about what is damaging to others, if someone is so frail that they need everyone around them to bend to thier whims for the sake of thier own mental health, then that is decidedly their problem and they should not be here. Yes, if a real life pedophile wants to come here and start up an RP about the kidnapping, drugging, raping and toruring to death of a two year old boy, then let them. Better they let that out here on the internet, than letting it out at thier local school. It doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt me, no matter how offended we would both be at such content. Simply put, your offence is not worthy of anyone elses consideration, much less to those who you would censor.

This is purely from a subjective POV to get into your mindset because I'd like to understand your thought process. So my question to you is, since you don't care about the mental health of others or the damage you could be inflicting, why do you expect them to care about yours? It appears to me you are trying to bend them to your whims.

 

[Saber]

No one is talking about age limit to join. I'm pretty sure there is no questioning the 18+ rule to join.

You are correct

 

[Tazreale]

Hmmm.. Browsed through most of peoples comments, at least three pages. Fourth page I kind of slowed down on reading replies.

I will say I am middle ground on this, but only to an extent.

First and foremost I am against 15 age limit. As a writer, I lean to 16+ and usually many partners I have written with prefer 18 and sometimes 20 up. Which is perfectly fine either way for me.

Though I think it is silly for some users to go on a crusade here to push for 18+ and then start justifying it as a means to weed out pedophilia. It just sounds like virtue signaling on a literature site if anything else.

Today it is lets raise the age limit to 18+

Tomorrow it is. Lets remove zoo roleplay.

The next day. Lets stop Non-con roleplay.

The day after lets take away all violence RP altogether.

Also if any want to reflect this is about age limit in writing and not those things, since they have been addressed.. Then isn't it?

It is the same thing. An argument is being brought up on age due to some high and mighty moral compass. The same could be said on beastality play, non-con, abuse and so on. Hell, I am even against scat/bathroom play, so why don't we ban that as well for the users that do it? Are we going to go on crusades for everything?

People using a mental health argument is a joke. No offense to those that are hiding behind that. That same mental health argument can again be addressed towards elements of non-con, abuse, and beastly scenes. Lets take them away too. Hell, lets take everything away and make this a more consenting, PG site for safe literacy sex for all.

 

[Razgriz]

To the people who say the slippery slope isn't that slippery.

History has proven you wrong time and time again.

Once you're over the hump, there's no going back.

Me personally, I think this is a non-issue. Moreover, as has been stated before, this is not a help center. This is not a place of healing. This is writing. Your feelings do not matter when it comes to someone else's wants; to think otherwise is incredibly selfish.

It's the same energy as playing Gears of War and then complaining it's too violent.

By the logic I've seen presented here, this is literally "I'm uncomfortable with 15 being the legal age limit, so I want it changed."

Ever consider that people like ageplay as a kink? Extreme age gaps?

As many have said, it is your choice to engage. It is not another's responsibility to make something less offensive to you. I've seen shit on here, both as staff and as a member, that made me want to vomit.

But never did I say "Let's ban this because it's gross." Because the things that needed to be banned have already been banned.

Don't like it? Well, frankly, tough s**t.

 

[Bejeweled]

Man, I gotta say, I had really hoped this could be a place where people could have a respectful conversation about this but apparently that isn’t really possible.

Since this has basically devolved into people saying “my want to write kid fucking matters more than anyone’s comfort, reasons be damned”, I don’t know that there’s anything else to be said here.

Kind of disappointing to see that be the attitude surrounding a reasonable suggestion, but them’s the breaks, I guess.

 

[Galisenae]

Rules are rules, they're every where and most are followed. If you can't follow the rules there are repercussions. If this was a fleeting thing, there wouldn't be a need for discussion, clearly. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else on this site, but as a member of staff I do actually have to see everything that is going on within the site. And as stated before, this is a privately owned site so it does indeed give the staff license to censor if they do not coincide with the rules. If you aren't breaking any of those rules we will indeed stay out of your business.

This is purely from a subjective POV to get into your mindset because I'd like to understand your thought process. So my question to you is, since you don't care about the mental health of others or the damage you could be inflicting, why do you expect them to care about yours?

And i have been following that particular rule. The only time i ever even mention loli is to bitch about it being disallowed. I would like that rule changed, but as long as it is still a rule, i shall be following it. I am an agitator, not an idiot. Most of the time, anyway n_n;...

Well with rules as nebulous as "Don't be negative", it's very hard to actually follow them, give it's etherial nature. Someone can be offended by anything and/or everything, and anything can be interpreted as negative, no matter how possitively one phrases it. For example, i am offended by Gay Pride celebrations, and no one is going to say that one of those is an exercise in negativity. Thus, you people will always be in my business as long as you continue pandering to the offense of others.

A damn good question! To put it simply: "I do not". This is why i am appealing to a sense of fair play and logic rather than just whining that your rules offend me(Which they do), because my offense is equally as meaningless. I am sure you have not noticed the complete lack of reports i have made, this is not because nothing has offended me on this site, but because i respect people enough to not want to censor them simply for saying/doing something i dislike. I wish everyone else could meet that increadibly low bar.

 

[StrayKitten]

Not responding to anyone directly, because I don't want to come off like I'm picking on anyone. I know this thread is essentially done-for now that we're on page 4, but I wanted to add my voice in anyway:

Not everyone lives in the USA.
Calling people pedophiles for engaging in behaviour that is legally and culturally acceptable where they live is a pretty America-Centric mindset. A lot of the english-speaking internet is based around US law and US culture, so I get how it might be awkward to consider that other people aren't monsters just for having different cultural boundaries than you.

That said: I upped my willing-to-play age limit to 18+
As a direct result of this conversation. Where I live, 16 is a legal adult in the way 18 is to Americans so I was operating under the idea that it was acceptable to write 16+ characters as they are adults in my consideration. This thread (and the one before it) let me know that by playing 16+ I look like a total creep to the mostly-american userbase. Whether I agree with that assessment or not (obviously I don't), it's not a risk I'm willing to take and the two years there honestly don't matter to me. It's easy enough to just ignore the first two years of adulthood the way an American would if the age limit on a site was suddenly raised from 18 to 20.

So why does it matter?
If the age isn't the part that's important to you (i.e. if you're not specifically looking to write those pairings because you like the idea of a child being harmed) then why does the number on the tin matter so much to you? Wouldn't you rather err on the side of Not-A-Pedophile than fight for your right to continue being confused for one? Personally, those two years mattered 0% to me. Writing someone a couple years further into adulthood (for me) isn't a problem. I'm not saying everyone who writes this stuff is wrong, but you should be really turning over in your mind why it's such a problem to age your characters up a little.

Why ban this and not anything else?
I honestly couldn't tell you. I think the difference is probably in impact? Children trigger a visceral need in most people to protect them at all costs, and honestly most places ban outright bestiality as well for a similar reason. There are topics I enjoy writing (notably noncon) which plenty of people would prefer was banned, and if it was? I'd probably just change what I was writing and continue on. If your argument is that "this is all just fiction and so it doesn't matter" then that has to cut both ways. You can't disregard the feelings of people who disagree with you by minimizing them as "it's not real so whatever" while protecting your own feelings about how important those topics are to you. Everyone's comfort levels matter and should be considered, not just yours.

In Conclusion
I do wonder if it might be a good idea to put a poll to the community here to see if they would like the age limit raised. In fact, it might be a good idea to do a survey to find out what, if any, other rule changes have wide-ranging support if you're hoping to keep the site in-tune with the writers here. I also wonder if it might not be a good idea to separate the request threads into more defined categories to allow people who aren't interested in page-after-page of a topic they find objectionable to avoid those topics. Whether that could be done with tags instead is something I don't know. I don't really know enough about how the website design works to be useful beyond vague suggestions. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk yaddayadda.

 

[Praxis]

There seems to be a frequent misconception among a few of you that this a matter of someone not liking something, and demanding for it's change; that we're suddenly aware that fifteen is way too young, and found the nearest soapbox to whine from. Unless I'm mistaken, this thread was created to open a discussion, and perhaps to gain greater insight as to why this is the only writing site that allows for, and even encourages by inaction, the writing of sexual acts involving minors/adolescents.

In that regard, it's succeeded. The age was increased to 15 because this ...discouraged pedophiles at the time. Again, this point is conjecture, at best, and is still subject to the same sort of change that bumped up the age limit in the first place.

Once you're over the hump, there's no going back.

That's how things works. Rules, social mores, what's acceptable are all in constant flux, and will always be in flux. That's how the universe, and everything in it, works. This website itself has changed, based on the whims, wants and needs of it's members. We're down the slope. Have been.

It's the same energy as playing Gears of War and then complaining it's too violent.

No.

BMR is a community based writing site. Gears of War appears to be a video game, centered on and heavily featuring gore. Is it too violent to be that? No. Is it too violent for a coming of age story? Probably. The two are only as similar as your point requires them to be.

I've seen shit on here, both as staff and as a member, that made me want to vomit.

Cool. Sucks that you lack the motivation or ability to change that if it made you feel that strongly. Others aren't. This is why these threads and petition for change happen.

Don't like it? Well, frankly, tough s**t.

Sadly, this seems to be Headline as stated by you, and in so many words by the site owner.

 

[Saber]

And i have been following that particular rule. The only time i ever even mention loli is to bitch about it being disallowed. I would like that rule changed, but as long as it is still a rule, i shall be following it. I am an agitator, not an idiot. Most of the time, anyway n_n;...

Well with rules as nebulous as "Don't be negative", it's very hard to actually follow them, give it's etherial nature. Someone can be offended by anything and/or everything, and anything can be interpreted as negative, no matter how possitively one phrases it. For example, i am offended by Gay Pride celebrations, and no one is going to say that one of those is an exercise in negativity. Thus, you people will always be in my business as long as you continue pandering to the offense of others.

A damn good question! To put it simply: "I do not". This is why i am appealing to a sense of fair play and logic rather than just whining that your rules offend me(Which they do), because my offense is equally as meaningless. I am sure you have not noticed the complete lack of reports i have made, this is not because nothing has offended me on this site, but because i respect people enough to not want to censor them simply for saying/doing something i dislike. I wish everyone else could meet that increadibly low bar.

This is probably the best reply you've given so far, so thank you. I'm sure I don't need to repeat myself so I won't, but I do respect your opinion and the respect you have for other members. Do I wish everyone could agree on subjects? Of course, in reality we both know that's just not possible. Pleasing everyone is impossible and staff does their best to make everyone on the site feel comfortable and safe. Will that break some eggs? Sure, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

This thread was for a discussion that spiraled, but I do wish it to continue to be a discussion, not arguments.

 

[Tinkerer Nadia]

The negativity and personal attacks are making me regret even chiming in. The answer has been made clear, and I see lots of repeated arguments.

I'm going to mute this. If you change the rules just let me know, otherwise stop acting like babies and leave if you don't like the current (or potentially changing) rules.

 

[CasualVelociraptor]

In all my stories, and in like 99% of the request threads I've seen, the age floor is 18 anyway. There have been a couple of RPs where, in an effort to explore deep seated issues from high school, I've played as younger girls alongside other people who specifically wanted to model a high school experience, and both experiences have been anything but model.

1.) In one RP, the person opposite me had their character rape mine out of nowhere. I had started to dip my toes into CNC, and I let it conclude, but that went beyond bounds and put me off playing with this person entirely.

2.) In another RP, with a huge party where teens and adults mixed together, MC was put in a situation by an adult character that I agreed to because I thought it would make for a better story, but that I instantly felt gross about after it was done because it wasn't handled well. After that, the entire RP devolved into a mess, and I swore off ever playing anyone under 18 ever again.

So, while I'm not going to be bothered either way, going below 18 in general is rare on this site to begin and rarely leads to a good outcome.

 

[Tazreale]

Here you go.

I will give a pet project for anyone that wants to tackle it.

Explain to me precisely how 16/17 material is more offensive than people on here that write; snuff, non-con, incest, zoophilia, etc. By that logic if writing material under the age of eighteen is against the law and morally wrong, so should the above be as well. Because trust me when I state this. I have seen far more offensive material on here besides content portraying characters around 16/17 years old. I have stumbled upon a rape/snuff story before and I just stopped reading it. Because it was a bit too graphic for my tastes, even though I don't mind dabbling in darker fields, but I am not too fond of 'snuff.'

Once more, this seems like a cherry picking issue; all due to some people finding it an issue with players that want to write 16/17 aged characters. Should we raise similar flags with the above mention? Should I double down and create another topic involving the context of why snuff RP is allowed on this site?

Just saying how these issues can spiral out of control.

 

[Galisenae]

This is probably the best reply you've given so far, so thank you. I'm sure I don't need to repeat myself so I won't, but I do respect your opinion and the respect you have for other members. Do I wish everyone could agree on subjects? Of course, in reality we both know that's just not possible. Pleasing everyone is impossible and staff does their best to make everyone on the site feel comfortable and safe. Will that break some eggs? Sure, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

This thread was for a discussion that spiraled, but I do wish it to continue to be a discussion, not arguments.

Yeah that is simply not going to happen, especially with me here, i am quite argumentative. And now that some people have started getting rather pissy, me being the spiteful sod that i am, will start getting actually confrontational. Well, if i cared to continue, that is. That being said, i think i shall bow out, i've got Pokemon to breed! n_n Toodles!