Question Why does BMR allow underage characters?

[Mitsu]

I have in fact had conversations with professionals on this, and conversations with members engaging in these stories who had conversations with said professionals. I haven't had any outright negative responses. Just "Be aware this may not be for you, and be prepared to withdraw if you need to." (In the case of roleplays).

The specifics of why have varied greatly. "I need to overcome this." "I want to explore what I felt." "I need people to read it without being called a liar."

I'm not willing to endorse or promote it. What I can say, for both Elliquiy and BMR, is we have put a great deal of effort into member safety. We actively seek out and ban these people using techniques, resources, and experience most other sites don't have, or don't even have the ability to. Which is to say, better here than Reddit.

You used the cloak of fiction as a justification for why the content should stay and asked for someone to challenge it. You now state that you will not endorse it at all. I think that's pretty clear that it's not a very good argument for it existing. Perhaps there are better arguments, but I don't think this one is. I'm not sure why you would state that BMR may be used in a particular manner, but won't endorse the website being used in that way. It's a bit of a confused message.

Also, I can say I've spoken to professionals too. Means absolutely nothing. That's a bit vague and forces me to just take you at your word, which I'm not prepared to do.

Better here than Reddit? That's your response? I appreciate that you accept your relative powerlessness to stop people from acting a certain way, but what a bleak and terrible outlook on the situation. Better to let people get sexually harassed on BMR, because then I can do something about it. Perhaps the response should be more akin to taking steps to prevent it in the first place, by creating a healthier culture on the site? Tall task, but a better response then you shrugging your shoulders.

It's almost like saying at least you got raped in the hospital so they can treat you and give ya the sexual assault forensic exam there.

No but for fictional purposes, after getting confronted about a different topic (Elliquiy banned gore originally), I moved to drawing the line at whether a certain sort of fiction caused harm.

You quoted me here, and I'm not sure how this is a response to what I had typed. Maybe there was a mix up in the communication here, or you quoted the wrong section? I was merely stating, in the bit you quoted, that free speech on BMR only extends as far as the BMR staff allows it to extend. Naturally it would be subject to the whims of those running the joint.

 

[Lydia]

Aside from stories (where this isn't a concern obviously) as mentioned people usually don't just pick partners at random for this.

And again, where will you find such a person anonymously?

Well, if someone has found a person they trust enough to attempt something like this, who they feel very safe with and have a good relationship with, there’s nothing stopping them from discussing something like this and collaborating off-site.

My understanding is that the 15/18+ applies to advertisements and stories on-site.

 

[hades.]

If your goal is to heal and process what happened to you, you should be seeking out a board for that though? This isn’t a safe space for the abused this is an online forum for stories, but it moves past stories when you’re inserting your trauma into stories… Anyone can say they are or aren’t something, or that something has happened to them. Does it make it true? We personally wouldn’t know what has happened to you unless you tell us, which is why I’m saying if it does bring up negative feelings maybe posting it on boards isn’t the best solution. Similarly I won’t say what is or isn’t helpful to the healing process. I can certainly say sharing trauma with strangers on the internet is not the wisest decision.

Iwaku doesn’t let you write minors in sexual positions unless you are also a minor. I think any characters involved in sex scenes should be aged up to clear any blurred lines. Why? Because we are all adults here.

Well, you sounded like you knew of one. So, I googled it...



I think finding a 18+ board would be far easier than me leaving because others are offended of my content, no? You could easily not read it or accept those requests instead of making members who have been here for years go somewhere else and "do the research"

I put a lot of time and effort, four years to be exact. I notice a lot of those who are having trouble are relatively new. It's not fair my four years gets banned or deleted.

 

[Praxis]

I just want to do my part in disavowing this notion. Per Vekseid:

I'm not willing to endorse or promote it. What I can say, for both Elliquiy and BMR, is we have put a great deal of effort into member safety. We actively seek out and ban these people using techniques, resources, and experience most other sites don't have, or don't even have the ability to. Which is to say, better here than Reddit.

Unless things have changed pretty substantially since I stepped down, these techniques and resources are limited to what gets reported, and how much attention those reports get. And, too, I can't say there's been any noticable up or down tick in the amount of inappropriate content on the site. Only that, given the reports I've personally seen to, these issues are swarming in the woodwork.

Are there metrics for how many members have been reprimanded/banned for these kinds of things? Or is it down to taking a reading from those who've done the work? The latter being true would suggest that the only proof we have is in the pudding. And I can tell you that allowing for 15 seems to attract more unsavoury behaviour than it helps to heal anyone.

 

[Bejeweled]

It has, also, long been part of the rules that BMR is not a psych help center. I would think that with BMR being a writing site and a lot of the rules centering around keeping relationships and OOC interactions between writers appropriate and consensual, the primary focus of allowing underage RP would not be to perform mental health services as that is a very personal and intimate thing.

Yes, RPing to overcome trauma could surely be cathartic, but what about the person on the other end of that RP? Do we really think anyone portraying the violent rapist of underage people as a character is doing so to be altruistic and provide therapy services for their partner, who may be someone they do not know at all? I strongly doubt it. They're doing it for their own gain, to play out their own fantasies.

I would rather the (likely rare) few who RP based on their own trauma find IRL help or better-equipped resources, and see those who seek to RP as violent child rapists off the site.

 

[whitechapel]

The thought of having sex with children is obviously very important to you, whitechapel.

Well, sure it is. That's why this thread is here. I love not having sex with kids and think about how much I love not having sex with kids often. It brings me comfort in these vexing, sour times.

Let's dispense with this sort of invective. I run two of the largest forums in the world, I have been through all manner of bullshit you would likely not believe. This isn't going to get you the response you seek.

It got a response, so that's a start.

We banned pedophillia, and the pedophiles largely went away. Why do you think this thread is now so one-sided?

Because not many people want pedophilia on the site. The majority also don't seem to want ephebophilia.

Again, to be clear, if the age limit gets increased, it needs to be based on a moral argument and not a legal one.

And it needs to be something other than you finding it disturbing or repulsive.

Well, see, there's the problem. It's impossible to separate the morality of writing about sex with children from the disgust and repulsion caused by it. It's probably not possible to separate it from the legal arguments, if we're being entirely honest. So, anything I say is probably at a disadvantage from the get go because of that.

Instead of making a philosophical argument, I'll just keep it simple: Children shouldn't be sexualized. That includes 15 year olds. That also includes 16 and 17 year olds. They especially shouldn't be sexualized for the sake of someone getting their rocks off on a smut roleplaying site. To play host to people who enjoy that content is not a far cry from actively supporting that content. To actively support that content is to support pedophilia in everything but name. If I have to argue the moral standards of pedophilia then I'm just gonna go ahead and get out of here.

That ain't a strong argument, but it is what it is.

Have a good one, gang.

 

[Bejeweled]

If I have to argue the moral standards of pedophilia then I'm just gonna go ahead and get out of here.

This.

To add, rules change all the time based on the wants of the community. People wanted the bump rule adjusted to 23 hours for no other reason than "we want it" and that was granted.

If the majority wants 18+ due to us finding pedophilia and ephebophilia and hebophilia and whatever other words get made up to try and differentiate levels of fucking kids when it's all awful, I don't see why we'd need more of an argument than "we don't like this and we don't want it here".

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

I do not consent to someone else using me for their therapy. Especially if they do not even give me a choice by not telling me that is happening.

I do not want the weight of someone else going through something so heavy by using our story to do it. I'm here for a creative outlet and fantasy. What if they got their lines crossed? What if something my character did in play caused them pain or caused them to hurt themselves? This is not a therapist office. I do not consent.

Edit: just saying, "people working through trauma" is not a good defense on this issue. We're not trained therapists and so much can go wrong in a situation dealing with real life events and such deep, integral emotions. Especially for people who are not notified that their partner is doing this. That is not my responsibility and I don't agree to the boundaries being crossed this way as a defense for why this content should stay here. No. You do not get to lay that at my feet. It's not right.

 

[Yoga Princess]

I like high school settings and think if only 18 year old students exist in those settings, why even bother writing such a story. This should never be like TV where 15 year old student is actually a 35 year old actor.

 

[Amante]

My two cents: There are plenty of things on this forum besides the present rules around character age that are extremely distasteful (as previously mentioned; incest, bestiality, non-consent, etc.)

My expectation as a user of this forum is that rules are made with a consistently applied reasoning. If the character age limit is changed from 15 to 18 simply because some users find it particularly distasteful, then I’ll certainly be submitting my own list of requests for addition to the banlist as well. User distaste alone does not provide a consistently applicable logic for moderation.

As has been mentioned above, a line has to be set somewhere on the matter. My submission to this discussion is that the determination of where that line goes should be based on a practical consideration of moderating out actual pedophiles like were mentioned to have been prevalent before the rules change rather than the moral tenor of the user base.

As for who’s qualified to set the line based on those criteria, it’s pretty clearly the mod team. They have the tools, and do the leg work of keeping the rules enforced. If the current rules ferment a frequency of pedophile presence that’s unacceptable weighed against non-problematic writings in the category, I trust them to adjust the rules accordingly, but it sounds like the prior raise of the age limit did an acceptable job of that based on that metric.

If you find something distasteful in the writings of other willing site members, I suggest doing as I do and simply ignoring users and threads which trigger that distaste.

 

[Saber]

I like high school settings and think if only 18 year old students exist in those settings, why even bother writing such a story. This should never be like TV where 15 year old student is actually a 35 year old actor.

Because 18 to even 19 year olds can and do exist in high school. Again, per the addendum to the rule. 15 and under can exist, but no illegal scenarios can occur. Same with the rule if it got bumped to 18 I'd assume. They can exist without inflicting illegal scenarios.

 

[whitechapel]

Because 18 to even 19 year olds can and do exist in high school. Again, per the addendum to the rule. 15 and under can exist, but no illegal scenarios can occur. Same with the rule if it got bumped to 18 I'd assume. They can exist without inflicting illegal scenarios.

In addition, there's also college. All the same tropes, none of the children.

 

[Galisenae]

How about we simply keep our collective noses out of other people's business? If some sad sod wants to do a depraved reimagining of the Rugrats cartoon, then who are any of us to say otherwise? As long as all parties involved are consenting adults and are not activity victimising anyone, then there is no issue. It is fucking fantasy, people! No matter how young the characters, no matter how gruesome the gore, no matter how unsettling the subject matter, it is still fictitious and no one can force you to engage with it. So do your fellow dwellers a favour and do not attempt to impose yourself upon them, as there is no more room in this world for another busy body or moral grandstander.

To put it bluntly: Get over yourself. Your offence is no one's problem but your own, your disgust is more meaningless than a drop in the ocean, and your outrage is but a whimper on the wind.

 

[Vekseid]

Also, I can say I've spoken to professionals too. Means absolutely nothing. That's a bit vague and forces me to just take you at your word, which I'm not prepared to do.

People also have to 'just take me at my word' that I have a daily offsite backup in case a meteor hits the data center.

Running these sites has put me in touch with an enormous variety of people.

Better here than Reddit? That's your response? I appreciate that you accept your relative powerlessness to stop people from acting a certain way, but what a bleak and terrible outlook on the situation. Better to let people get sexually harassed on BMR, because then I can do something about it. Perhaps the response should be more akin to taking steps to prevent it in the first place, by creating a healthier culture on the site? Tall task, but a better response then you shrugging your shoulders.

As I said to the OP, trying tactics like this isn't going to get you the result you are looking for. Please refrain from putting statements in peoples' mouths and otherwise violating the Principle of Charity.

And we do take these steps. Though as Praxis says, it is very difficult when people don't report.

The main thing to do is to build an environment to encourage reporting, more than anything. I did some such efforts on E, though BMR I left to the staff here.

Are there metrics for how many members have been reprimanded/banned for these kinds of things?

You did not take part in metrics conversations. Shit happened to me when covid went down and I never recovered, but yes this has been done.

You also weren't here as a mod and didn't see the what was going on before we raised the age limit. You can go back and read some rants and debates regarding loli/shota being part of the banned category, though. It was entirely something else.

Pedophilia is classed as a mental disorder for a reason, they are an entirely different class of problem, and presented one. There is little comparing before we raised the limit to 15 and after, it was an enormous weight off our shoulders.

Because not many people want pedophilia on the site.

Thankfully pedophilia is banned here.

To add, rules change all the time based on the wants of the community. People wanted the bump rule adjusted to 23 hours for no other reason than "we want it" and that was granted.

If the majority wants 18+ due to us finding pedophilia and ephebophilia and hebophilia and whatever other words get made up to try and differentiate levels of fucking kids when it's all awful, I don't see why we'd need more of an argument than "we don't like this and we don't want it here".

The majority don't speak, is kind of the thing. The site has some two thousand monthly unique members, how many will participate in this thread?

Pedophilia is classed as a mental disorder for a reason, they are an entirely different class of problem, and presented one.

Meanwhile 'ephebophilia' isn't. The people predating on those ages don't stop there.

Banning it has no effect as to the overall abuse the site has to deal with.

Meanwhile there are a lot of awful topics. And yes, I have been asked to ban them.

I have been asked to ban rape. I have been asked to re-ban bestiality.

It's all awful.

If it bothers you so much you decide you need to leave, that is a choice you make for yourself. I won't fault you for it.

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

If it bothers you so much you decide you need to leave, that is a choice you make for yourself. I won't fault you for it.

Well, there we go, fellas. ^^;; [/thread] right? It's literally not up for discussion and it never will be.

 

[Anara]

At the end if the day, no one is ever forced to stay in a place they do not wish to be. Roleplaying sites will always have rules that upset members, but everyone can not be 100% happy all the time. All you can do is voice your opinion and have civilized conversations.

The staff here do everything they can to ensure our safety as members and Veks puts as much effort into this as time allows otherwise he wouldn't be here trying to explain this to all of us.

Is something seem weird, out of place, wrong etc, just report it.

I've been following this thread from the start and what I can say is some of you guys could stand to learn some kindness and understanding and others need to tuck the hypocrisy away. We do this as a hobby. Some do this as a therapeutic release, some to gain better skill sets. Whatever your reason is, stay in your lane and keep doing what you need to do to be happy. Dog piling on staff and other members is not going to force them to do what you want.

 

[Bejeweled]

I don't personally care that much whether the rule changes or whether it doesn't. Would I prefer 18+? Sure. There's other sites that do that, and I'll continue to write there, too. I'm not really up-in-arms about it, just giving my opinion. That's what the thread was for IMO.

 

[prettysoft]

I have said my peace and I stand ten toes down. Not sorry if anyone is offended by my opinions, don’t care personally to explain past the point that I am in agreement with the age being raised for the reasons stated in this thread by myself and others.

I will continue to frequent the site as a member regardless of what happens, because I like it here.

^.^

 

[whitechapel]

Similar to prettysoft, I'm done. I've said what I needed to say and stand by what I said regardless of if it left anyone feeling sour. Any further discussion on my part clearly wouldn't have any positive effect.

I'll leave it to the rest of you. Enjoy.

 

[Vekseid]

Well, there we go, fellas. ^^;; [/thread] right? It's literally not up for discussion and it never will be.

I don't mind the discussion as long as people discuss in a civil fashion. I understand this concerns people and as such it is my responsibility to address and present my viewpoint.

 

[Lydia]

At the end if the day, no one is ever forced to stay in a place they do not wish to be. Roleplaying sites will always have rules that upset members, but everyone can not be 100% happy all the time. All you can do is voice your opinion and have civilized conversations.

The staff here do everything they can to ensure our safety as members and Veks puts as much effort into this as time allows otherwise he wouldn't be here trying to explain this to all of us.

Is something seem weird, out of place, wrong etc, just report it.

I've been following this thread from the start and what I can say is some of you guys could stand to learn some kindness and understanding and others need to tuck the hypocrisy away. We do this as a hobby. Some do this as a therapeutic release, some to gain better skill sets. Whatever your reason is, stay in your lane and keep doing what you need to do to be happy. Dog piling on staff and other members is not going to force them to do what you want.

I do want to point out that several of us have been on staff in the past and have seen some of the troubling stuff that happens on-site, which might not be evident to general users. (Credit there to past and current staff for dealing with those problematic users.) Seeing those offenses, seeing how staff has to deal with them, seeing the sick stuff that comes across the reports - that’s one of the primary reasons I’d like to see the age raised, because I suspect it will further discourage those who are looking for pedophilic RP.

(If you’re someone who wants to write about children, you’d probably prefer a site that has an age limit of 15, rather than 18, because it may seem more permissive, right? If they say 15, certainly you can find someone who’ll go 13, or 12… it’s really not that much different, right? Whereas 18 is pretty firm - legal age of majority/adulthood, no fucking with kids. It sends a different type of message, sets a higher standard because it is a widely-accepted legal line. No users under 18, no characters under 18. No room for negotiation.)

 

[Mitsu]

As I said to the OP, trying tactics like this isn't going to get you the result you are looking for. Please refrain from putting statements in peoples' mouths and otherwise violating the Principle of Charity.

And we do take these steps. Though as Praxis says, it is very difficult when people don't report.

The main thing to do is to build an environment to encourage reporting, more than anything. I did some such efforts on E, though BMR I left to the staff here.

What are you talking about? I responded quite directly and in line with what you had said. I was charitable enough in saying that it was decent of you to at least acknowledge that you can't really control what people do-- that at least is a pretty good point. I just thought it was a very weak and questionable response. I explained why I thought it was a weak and questionable response. My intent wasn't in any way to rile you up, or get some kind of antagonistic response from you. In what other way do you expect someone to interpret what you had said? You literally explained that you have tools to deal with people that get out of line, therefore it's better to happen here than Reddit. In what way was I putting words in your mouth? That's what you said. Not me.

I'm not the only one that took it that way. It came off in a very shitty light-- such and such is perfectly fine, because we can punish people better than someplace else; if something bad is gonna happen, well gosh golly it's a good thing it happened here. Do you not see the point here? It's not that you can police something, it's that policy makes it more likely to happen at all. As someone else said, the current age thing only helps foster certain content on the site. You only make it easier, and then brush aside the fact with the idea that you'll just... do what? Ban them? On today's Internet? Okay.

Let's say you got this down way better than I'm assuming. You can keep people using the VPNs or Tor, or anything else that allows people to have that Internet privacy thing going on, from using the site. Great, Johnny Quick Dick Handsy'McGee is banned, but that doesn't do anything to help the fact that Susie thought she was in a safe place to use the cloak of fiction, as professed by the guy that runs the site-- but wait... you said you don't endorse the site being used in that way. I guess my point there is moot, or am I putting words in your mouth again? You never did address that point.

Do you endorse the BMR being used as a means of therapy via the cloak of fiction? I'll even copy and paste my previous message to remind you of what I had said. You can respond to it again, and perhaps clear this up for me. (or not, I'm not your dad)

Can BMR provide the users of this website any actual reassurance that this is a safe place to heal? Can you, Vekseid, promote and endorse that BMR is an adequate and safe place to utilize a cloak of fiction, solo or with another person, to sort through their trauma? What kind of qualifications do you have to make the claim if you think it is? In what way would you take responsibility for endorsing BMR as such, and then someone finds that the safe place suddenly made things worse?

If your response is the same, and you cannot endorse it then:

I'm not sure why you would state that BMR may be used in a particular manner, but won't endorse the website being used in that way. It's a bit of a confused message.

Also, I don't "try tactics". If anything, I'm very straight forward and blunt with what I mean. If I wanted to actually antagonize you, this is certainly not how I would do it.

 

[Anara]

I do want to point out that several of us have been on staff in the past and have seen some of the troubling stuff that happens on-site, which might not be evident to general users. (Credit there to past and current staff for dealing with those problematic users.) Seeing those offenses, seeing how staff has to deal with them, seeing the sick stuff that comes across the reports - that’s one of the primary reasons I’d like to see the age raised, because I suspect it will further discourage those who are looking for pedophilic RP.

(If you’re someone who wants to write about children, you’d probably prefer a site that has an age limit of 15, rather than 18, because it may seem more permissive, right? If they say 15, certainly you can find someone who’ll go 13, or 12… it’s really not that much different, right? Whereas 18 is pretty firm - legal age of majority/adulthood, no fucking with kids. It sends a different type of message, sets a higher standard because it is a widely-accepted legal line. No users under 18, no characters under 18. No room for negotiation.)

Oh yeah. I definitely remember the reports and I remember sending those messages to both affected members and the perpetrators. I also remember withdrawing myself from the site because I was so sick about it I couldn't write.

I remember.

But then, I moved on. Because at the end of the day we are all never going to be satisfied 100% with any rule or any change in any site.


So, I definitely want the age raised. But what turned out to be a decent conversation definitely did not end that way. It's a shame because maybe it could have been productive.


Maybe next time when someone raises this conversation again it will be more understanding and kind.

For now, I personally will do the civil thing and not write it and look the other way unless things are so bad that they need reporting.

Have a nice night everyone!

 

[hades.]

Whereas 18 is pretty firm - the legal age of majority/adulthood, no fucking with kids.

Some could argue this is pretty firm: the national age of consent in the US (and the rest of the world) is 16. You can be 20 and still be far from an adult. At 16, most are experimenting sexually. The hormones are there and so is biology–I remember those times quite well. My grandparents got married before eighteen, so did many until 1970's when adulthood was changed to meet the longevity of our lifespans, not our Tanner charts.

If you’re someone who wants to write about children, you’d probably prefer a site that has an age limit of 15, rather than 18, because it may seem more permissive.

Yes. That's why I joined, by reading rules and guidelines that clearly stated the content I could/would encounter and be free to explore. As you did, as well, I am sure. It was a privilege I was eager to attempt for artistic freedom and providing a deep-dive into things that upset me to bring awareness and try and understand it.

If they say 15, certainly you can find someone who’ll go 13, or 12… it’s really not that much different, right?

I have children, can confirm a stark difference from 12 to 15, but okay.

You certainly aren't developed the same. By 12, you've probably started and passed small scale stages of puberty, typically at 15 it has peaked.

Most girls develop pubic hair from ages 9-14. By 15, they've completed the Tanner scale chart of sexual maturity/puberty. 15-18 being scale III, I believe. Like Veks said, pedophiles aren't allowed here and are unattracted to tanner stage III and IV.

At 12, chances are you might not have developed all your permanent teeth, as that usually happens by age 13.

At 17, you may not be an "adult", but you can legally get married, join the military, and drop out of school. Can't drink alcohol though, so how much of an adult are you at 18? You gain more rights at 17 than you do your 18th birthday, such as having a full drivers permit.

By consent, on average, you can legally marry starting at age 16. Not 12.

The average first sexual engagement in American's is age 15 years:
The average age of first sexual intercourse (or sexual debut) was 15.6 years. Males reported earlier ages of sexual initiation than did females (Figure 1). Twenty-two percent of males reported sexual initiation between 10-13 years, while 16% of females reported the same.

I bring this up because, well, there are tons of reasons why there is a difference between 12 and 15. Just because you find someone attractive who has peaked maturely is not the same as getting attracted to someone who hasn't or has only started to become a sexually mature adult.

@Lydia, you also claim the same feelings and emotions are the same. I disagree here too. No, no they are not. Getting molestated at age 15 (or younger) by a family member is NOT the same as being coerced to perform sex for a job promotion at age 20+. Survivors are not the same. There is a different impact the younger the victim, sadly. Getting groped at 20 is not the same as at 12, having never been touched or may not even know it was wrong or even know you're a victim until later down in your life, where at 20 you clearly understand what is happening, etc.

It sends a different type of message, sets a higher standard because it is a widely-accepted legal line.

For you, but not everyone. Obviously, I respect your opinion but deeply concour. To be fair, you opted for the standard when you joined. Banning and witch-hunting (calling them pedophiles) people isn't a good standard. A higher standard would be to allow those exploring these topics (for more reasons than one) to go about their day peacefully without scrutiny and ridicule or risk their material getting banned.

A lot of these stories are with my girlfriend, so yeah, it is personal to me. I care more about my material and memories than anyone's opinion of me. Could care less if I never wrote under 18 again, honnestly. Nor do I care to be labeled a pedo by a stranger. They are free to blow me I'm their adult years. But years of work getting lost? Nah, fuck that. I'll defend that to the day I die. It is mine.

The day it isn't abundant and running rampant in our current culture, then maybe it will set a higher standard. Star Wars, The Walking Dead, Lolita, The Blue Lagoon, Flowers in the Attic, 120 days in Sodom, Natural Born Killers, The Professional, Interview with a Vampire, The Basketball Diaries, Pretty Baby, A Boy And His Dog, The Girl Next Door, Megan is Missing, Taxidriver, The Godfather, I mean it is endless and everywhere and ironically sells–for more reasons than pedophelia. You could literally go all day long nitpicking this in popular media and finding new ones.

The same goes for music, yeah? Art? Definitely. Literature? By the tons. All day long. One was just published. Another is in production.

Further, even if people was getting off to these stories, studies prove that outlets allow the predator a safe space, which in return, keeps children safe. Sexual aggression tends to uptick when people started being holier-than-thou and begin banning material and outcasting others in a stigmatic way – as some have chose to do today. Probably why it is so mainstream in the media.

Kutchinsky studied pornography compared to the incidence of sex crimes in Denmark, most notably child molestation:

The unexpected outcome of this analysis is that the high availability of hard-core pornography in Denmark was most probably the very direct cause of a considerable decrease in at least one type of serious sex offense, namely, child molestation. Between 1965 (the first year of the availability of hard-core pornographic pictures) and 1969 (the year of the repeal of the Penal Law ban, and of peak production), the number of cases of this type dropped from 220 to 87. The implication of our conclusion is that a large number of such offenses have been avoided since the late 1960s, because potential offenders obtained sufficient sexual satisfaction through the use of pornography, most probably combined with masturbation

Diamond analyzed the incidence of sex crimes (rape) in Japan, Shanghai and the US associated with the availability of sexually explicit materials (SEM). He focused on “Japan, a country quite different from those in the West. In regard to pornography, in Japan the swing from prudish and restrictive to relatively permissive and nonrestrictive was dramatic. Some limited data from Shanghai and new data from the United States follow“. He was particularly interested in Japan, because:

Currently , not only are visuals with pubic hair and exposed genitalia present, but available are cartoon images of hard-core sexual encounters in manga as well as in adult reading materials. These can be pictures and stories involving bestiality, sadomasochism, necrophilia and incest; the characters involved may be adults, children or both. Essentially, anything goes.“

He concluded that:

It is certainly clear from the data reviewed, and the new data and analysis presented, that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan, the United States and elsewhere has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so, among youngsters as perpetrators or victims.

So yeah, better here than anywhere.

Upon reviewing the guidelines put in place, I think @Vekseid did a great job at keeping it 15 and up. It shows he put a lot of thought and time and experience on the subject that I think many may lack. The partners I've had have all been somewhat professional, and didn't give me a creepy vibe whatsoever. This place isn't near as cringe on other sites that allow 15 and even younger. I for one appreciate the creative freedom I am allowed.

From here forth, I'll be sure to tag my stories so not to trigger anyone. I didn't know it was as upsetting to some as say, violence or rape, so I'll be more mindful. I'm not here to upset people, but simply mind my own buisiness. I think tags and warnings are a far better approach than banning or stifling freedom of speech/expression. And even though we don't have full freedom of speech here, I mention it because of how the US government sees this subject. Is it art, freedom of expression, or is it obscenity? I like to think my writing isn't pure smut or even cybersex, as I for one don't seek it for sexual thrill as I do for an emotional one as a writer, not a would-be child rapist.

Nothing left to say from me other than no hard feelings; sorry some got upset. I think your cause is both noble and foolish. Thanks for reading. ^^

 

[Sync]

Well...seeing as I kinda caused this topic/thread to emerge, I'm gonna put my hand up and chime in with my $0.02

Firstly, I'm not bothered one way of the other as to the minimum age limit on the site. I'm barely writing stories anyway these days, and those stories I am writing are all 18+ characters. I'm not going to be affected if the age limit is raised.

That said, I do understand there is a certain fascination with writing about a younger person's (definitely no younger than 15, and I'd rather see 16-17) sexual development as the story explores their sexual awakening and maturity. There is a certain appeal to the loss of innocence which loses a little of its lustre when the age clock ticks over to 18.

However, I'd only consider that in an erotic, fully-consensual manner, and nothing else.

Do I condone paedophilia? Hell, no. Those who promote and/or practice it should be taken behind the bike shed and...well...

Do I condone abuse (in any form) of minors? Hell no. See my response to paedophilia above.

You want to raise the age limit, go right ahead. I'll still be here, chugging away at stuff.

My only concern/query was how the new ruling over depiction of violence & abuse of younger characters impacted backstory (ie those elements of a character that are only alluded to in the story, and not actively written).

Chill, folks.