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:: [ MASS EFFECT: ANDROMEDA ] ::

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Ineria

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      • You guys! I'm so fucking hype for this game!
        I've played the trilogy so many times over by now, but I honestly cannot wait for this. It looks so good!
        The graphics look super crisp, the gameplay looks hella fun. And the characters look almost as diverse as the ones in the original trilogy.

        Who else is excited for this?
 
I think moving the sequel(s?) to a new galaxy was a good choice. Mass effect 3 ending changed the setting forever and continuing a game there would have meant picking one option as the canon ending so this will help them sidestep it by not needing to reference how things are "back home."

Despite the complaints about that ME3 ending I like the games and certainly hope that they make a worthy sequel.
 
Obviously Bioware does, considering they went out of their way to create a plot that distances themselves from that ending. They literally came up with some convenient plot point about Ryder leaving the Milky Way before the events of ME3 even start. If you honestly believe that Bioware never actually cared about the backlash, you're out of your mind. I'd argue that the series was going down hill at the start of the second game, but the third one really nearly killed it. Ending aside, it was pretty fucking crappy and managed to give the finger to everything the series had stood for up until that point (hell I enjoyed the multiplayer more than the single player). I'll bet you anything one of the first discussions that popped up in the boardroom was, "How do we manage player expectations after the end of Mass Effect 3, because they fucking hated it."
 
I don't think most people hated it. After they updated the ending a lot of folks liked even that and it had been the main problem they had with the game.

It's just that the haters were very loud.
 
It was a pretty shit ending all around, and it had absolutely nothing to do with anything the player has done throughout all three games. A series about hope and spirit ended with three, stupid choices and none of them were an actual win. Three games of storylines were ended with a magical, deus ex, bullshit machine. It was pretty abysmal. Why the fuck did I bother to create the most kickass, galactic army ever, only for it not to have mattered? The game wasted my time.

All they had to do was take a page out of ME2's book, and have a suicide mission-esque ending. Your choices all decide whether you win or lose, and who survives the final battle. That's it. None of this masturbatory, "high-concept", space magic bullshit. Just a terrible, costly battle that frees the galaxy from the clutch of the Reapers, or results in the continuation of the cycle. If they wanted more than a battle at the end, then they should have tried to make it feel more like Star Trek, and less like some shitty sci-fi movie shit out during the last five years (protagonist stops or starts a colored, sky beam to save the world). While not a Bioware game, Fallout 2 allows you to literally finish the final encounter of the game with a meaningful conversation with the main antagonist (or you can shoot him). If Casey Hudson wasn't a hack-fraud, he could have possibly made that work too. Instead you pick one of three colors, and PFFFFFTTTTT.

If you, or anyone, was actually PLEASED with that ending then I more or less cannot respect your opinion in regards to the series as a whole. I'd like to say it boggles my mind at how they could have fucked it up so badly, but it doesn't. It was the laziest, easiest ending they could have written, while still maintaining the charade of player choice. I'm not even a fanboy, considering I didn't really like ME2 either. I'm not upset, because my perfect trilogy was ruined. I mean... c'mon... the game even ruined what was shaping up to be one of the most interesting and complex villains the game could have hoped for in the Illusive Man. Bioware fucked up, they didn't know what they were doing, and were in over their heads-- see any Bethesda game ever.

I pretty much don't give a fuck about public opinion. Most people in the world like simple, stupid shit, because it's easy to digest. Pick the most popular shit in the world, and it's almost never an excellent example of whatever it is. If you go by ticket sales, most people LOVE the Transformer movies. Does anyone actually think Avatar is the best movie ever made? How about Furious 7 and Frozen? All movies that have achieved insane popularity due to their massive, wide-market appeal. Which game series sells more games than any other series for like the last decade (or nearly)? Call of Duty.

Anyway, I'm ranting pretty badly here. I'll just leave it at that, and actually discuss the point of this thread.

Despite my distrust in Bioware (I haven't REALLY liked a Bioware game since 2009), I find myself looking forward to Andromeda. I'm almost entirely certain my interest in this game lies in my interest in the universe created in the first game, and how things might be different in the new setting. I'm also a total whore for any game where I can customize my character's appearance, and choose what they say. I'm worried that the game MIGHT play a bit like Inquisition and have the player running around empty areas collecting stupid shit all day.
 
They made a plot that involved going to another galaxy because they wanted to do new games in the series, but to not have it tethered to the choices made in the original trilogy because a.) far too much variation and b.) to give a fresh start to a new story.

You genuinely have to ignore the developers' own words and delude yourself into thinking that it all revolves around the psychotic whining and delusion a tiny minority of players had over endings that didn't give you a perfect solution, didn't give you an easy way out, and required sacrifice at the end of a game about sacrifice and forced you to make a decision that affected the entire galaxy at the end of a series about making decisions that affected the entire galaxy.

Also, the delusion that one or two people were the only people who wrote the endings is a complete lie, and almost every member of the writing staff has pointed that out. You want to know why the anti-ending crowd desperately wants to believe one or two people were the only ones who wrote the endings? Because the Retakers genuinely believed that harassment and death threats are an appropriate response to not liking five minutes of a game, and they wanted specific people to terrorize with their psychotic little campaign. Pinning it all on Casey Hudson shows that either you don't give a crap that you're a pawn for such despicable people or that you're happy to take part in utter sociopathy.
 
Hur dur. Yeah, but there's no denying that they wanted to distance themselves from the biggest PR disaster they've ever had with the series. Are you really so fucking naive to believe that they didn't give a shit that they were getting blasted over social media, and even some gaming press? Regardless who was saying it, that kinda shit is TOXIC to any big company like this, and you can bet EA was tapping them on the shoulder asking why the latest title in this big franchise they're paying for is getting such bad press. I mean, hell, they even released some half-assed DLC to try to appease people upset over the ending.

You don't just work on something for 2+ years, and shrug it off when people start shitting on it.

As for Casey Hudson and Mac Walters writing the ending themselves, I haven't heard anything compelling to disregard the Patrick Weekes post. I was never very close to any of this, so I spent a little bit of time looking it up on Google. When a slam post about it all was posted from the guys account on Penny Arcade, I'd say it's very likely it was him. Did someone really just hack his account to post some fantasy to discredit the game, or did he post it out of frustration, and then realized his fucking job was on the line? Occam's Razor is the side I'll stand on here. If you buy into most of the lip-service that any huge-ass company has to say, then you're a fool. They don't care about you, or me, or any of their "fans". The people working 9-5 might, but not the company. They are only interested in making money. Do you really expect Bioware to go, "Oh yeah, our lead guys totally wrote a fucking ending that a bunch of people did not like, and that post on Penny Arcade was totally true." One of the biggest aspects of making money is protecting your brand, and you can bet your ass that Bioware is going to do everything they can to let people forget about that ME3 ending. Don't be naive. Go look at the sad tales of Randy Pitchford and Peter Molyneux to get an idea of how keen developers are to actually tell you the truth. It isn't anything new, because developers have been slime-balls since games on floppy discs were sold in ziplock bags.

Also, you completely and utterly fail to realize how it was such a shitty ending. It has nothing to do with not having a perfect solution. ME2's suicide mission had quite a few less than perfect outcomes, and that was perfectly okay. It was the idea that you press one of three fucking buttons, and space magic wins it all. There was nothing there-- no substance. It was so fucking baffling and shitty that we are still talking about it today. I was never a "Retaker", I was just a guy who played all three games, and watched them decline starting with the second. They tried TWICE to fix the ending, and it is still bad. If they had any artistic integrity, didn't care about "whiners", and were perfectly okay with the ending, then they would have left it exactly how it was.

Oh and the entire message of Mass Effect was hope, and cooperation between species (racism is bad). It's the Star Trek ideal of humanity working together with our brothers and sisters out in space to create an idealized utopia free of bullshit. The Reapers thought this was impossible, so they sought to destroy life before life destroyed the galaxy. Fuck man, the Normandy itself carried that very message, and so did Shepard throughout the entire series. The ending shits on that, because it isn't us that matters, but a machine made by some dead-ass species from thousands of years ago. There was no problem with a difficult ending, but rather a problem with an ending that threw all of that out of the window in favor of a super neat, and easy ending that just tied shit up in absurd ways. All of the sacrifice, choices, and decisions you made throughout the three games amount to nothing but a lame-ass button press and some space magic. Instead you get a message that your hope and struggles mean shit, because you can't win unless you have space magic.

Furthermore, I don't much care about your pathetic, sad little straw man. "Oh but they said mean things and sent death threats to Bioware, therefore their issues are invalid! Since you don't like the ending, and don't buy Bioware's shit, then I guess you're just a crazy person!" Fuck off. I was perfectly happy to discuss this with you until you tried to pull that shit.
 
Mitsu said:
As for Casey Hudson and Mac Walters writing the ending themselves, I haven't heard anything compelling to disregard the Patrick Weekes post.
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Besides the fact that Patrick Weekes said it wasn't him and everything the post made by "him" was 100% factually wrong?

These are people who were so desperate to justify their psychotic vendetta against the developer that something that could have cost Weekes his job if it wasn't goddamn obvious it wasn't him was absolutely nothing to the sad loser who tried to shove bullshit in Weekes's mouth.

Also, the gaming journalism that reported on it did so because the people who didn't like the ending were flat-out threatening to kill the developers because the game didn't end exactly how those losers wanted it to. The vast majority of gaming journalism sites sided with BioWare and felt that demanding a video game be changed just because some people didn't like five minutes of it was completely ludicrous and selfish.

Mitsu said:
The ending shits on that, because it isn't us that matters, but a machine made by some dead-ass species from thousands of years ago.
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Oh, that machine that decides to help you based on the fact that everything you did led to the current cycle being the only one to reach it, and therefore assists you in choosing whichever means of ending the Reaper cycle you desire, even if it explicitly disagrees with your choice?

Yep, totally the machine that's the only one who matters.

Mitsu said:
All of the sacrifice, choices, and decisions you made throughout the three games amount to nothing but a lame-ass button press and some space magic. Instead you get a message that your hope and struggles mean shit, because you can't win unless you have space magic.
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Oh, you mean that whole thing where the entire galaxy came together to construct the Crucible, and your success depends on how well you united the galaxy in doing so?

Or is the part where the Crucible brings back to life every single character that died as a result of your actions. Oh wait, no it isn't. The entirety of the game resolved plot arcs based on your choices, and your entire argument boils down to "X character's fate didn't have a specific effect on the decision of what to do with the Reapers and therefore meant nothing". It is pretending that your decisions didn't decide the fate of entire races just because whether or not the krogan are alive or not doesn't affect what you do with the Reapers.

Or to put it very bluntly, this piece of Retaker garbage amounts to complaining about the last five minutes of the game because you pretend the previous two thousand minutes never happened.

EDIT: Not to mention, the final mission even has a segment where you can talk to your squadmates current and previous as well as talk to major characters, with their dialogue reflecting the choices you've made on your way. So forgot "previous two thousand minutes", because it really is pretending all of the last half-hour of the game but the final five minutes doesn't exist solely to complain.

Mitsu said:
Furthermore, I don't much care about your pathetic, sad little straw man. "Oh but they said mean things and sent death threats to Bioware, therefore their issues are invalid! Since you don't like the ending, and don't buy Bioware's shit, then I guess you're just a crazy person!" Fuck off. I was perfectly happy to discuss this with you until you tried to pull that shit.
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All you're doing is regurgitating blatant bullshit spouted by trolls who wanted people like you to harass and threaten random people because a video game didn't end exactly how they wanted it to. It's complete and obvious lies, but as long as it helps justify the Retakers' obsessive and sociopathic campaign against the developers.

You'd think the people who didn't like the endings would just move on, perhaps play games made by other people if they don't like what BioWare does with their own stories. That the Retaker crowd continues to cry non-stop and spout the same complete and utter bullshit five years later because they can't stand the developers making games and the actual fans being excited for the new game says all that needs to be said about the Retakers.
 
I am going to side with Smokykisses here, your claims about the writer are just silly.

And the galaxy working together on Crucible and fighting the Reapers is what enables the player to succeed and get to the "magic button." In fact the ending you get is clearly affected by how much forces you are able to gather with weaker force meaning that the destruction from the Reaper destruction possibly destroying all the gates and splintering all the separate colonies. And depending on your actions there are results such as the Rachni joining you or betraying you, the Krogan dying off or being cured of the genphage, many of the people you met in ME1 and 2 show up again with some dying even... The player clearly can affect what happens in the end of the game.
 
SmokyKisses said:
Mitsu said:
Furthermore, I don't much care about your pathetic, sad little straw man. "Oh but they said mean things and sent death threats to Bioware, therefore their issues are invalid! Since you don't like the ending, and don't buy Bioware's shit, then I guess you're just a crazy person!" Fuck off. I was perfectly happy to discuss this with you until you tried to pull that shit.
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All you're doing is regurgitating blatant bullshit spouted by trolls who wanted people like you to harass and threaten random people because a video game didn't end exactly how they wanted it to. It's complete and obvious lies, but as long as it helps justify the Retakers' obsessive and sociopathic campaign against the developers.

You'd think the people who didn't like the endings would just move on, perhaps play games made by other people if they don't like what BioWare does with their own stories. That the Retaker crowd continues to cry non-stop and spout the same complete and utter bullshit five years later because they can't stand the developers making games and the actual fans being excited for the new game says all that needs to be said about the Retakers.
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I'm not arguing your points, because I already told you to fuck off. Once you bring out this pathetic, fucking excuse for an argument it's over. I'm not going to waste my time on you. I don't give a shit about what people have said to Bioware, I don't give a shit about how other people feel about the ending, and I'm not just parroting shit I've heard from other people. These are thoughts I've had since I finished the game myself. The ending was horribly lackluster. I was never a member of this movement you're obsessed with, and I never spent all that much time reading what they have to say about it.

I don't give a shit about what you feel an "actual" fan is, or what they should do. I explained why I thought the ending was terrible, and you apparently feel a different way. If you weren't such a fucking try-hard, white knight for a multi-million(billion?) dollar corporation, I'd probably discuss it with you at length-- I have discussed it at length with friends (some of which have differing opinions). My problem isn't really that your opinion is different, but rather you feel the need to discredit my own opinions based on a group of people I have ZERO connection to. The only thing I probably picked up from them is the Patrick Weekes post.

Until someone can provide me some hard evidence that he was hacked, and that some malicious types decided to somehow validate themselves about their feelings, then I'm not just going to take Bioware's word for it. To me, it looks like a guy letting off steam, and then realizing his error as his bosses throttled the fuck out of him. A corporation will say ANYTHING to absolve themselves of any fault, and to twist consumer confidence around their fingers. So, if he wanted to keep his job, you can bet your ass Patrick Weekes would have said whatever his bosses wanted him to say to save face.
 
Mitsu said:
My problem isn't really that your opinion is different, but rather you feel the need to discredit my own opinions based on a group of people I have ZERO connection to.
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You showed up in this thread just to whine about the endings, when no one asked for any such opinion.

You desperately need to convince yourself that one person wrote the endings, despite no evidence whatsoever, just to make you feel good about spouting abuse towards him.

You refuse to acknowledge that nothing disproves the "Weekes" post better than the fact that all it said was the same complete-and-utter-bullshit Retaker garbage they'd spouted since the beginning.

And you can't even admit to being called out as blatantly wrong over every reason you complain about the endings.

I see no difference from any other Retaker.
 
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      • Really, guys? I started this thread for Mass Effect: Andromeda, not the original trilogy series. The endings have been a huge thing in the fandom that many members still agree and disagree upon.

        I'm going to ask you all to cease this discussion on this thread. Why? Because this was about Andromeda, not what your opinion of how the original trilogy ended was. I've never seen a "debate" concerning it come to a good conclusion (because it's an argument of opinions. No one is right or wrong), so again, I will implore you to cease fire immediately.

        @Nekrosilisk88
        I understand the trepidation since it's difficult to come back after making such a great series beforehand. I was worried about it myself until I watched more videos of the gameplay. I love open world games, especially with battle systems like Mass Effect. Bioware writing has rarely let me down, and I am excited about the idea of having to craft resources in order to proceed in some quest lines and ultimately, survive. It sounds just open and stressful enough to pull me in over and over again. Lol
        But that's my opinion.

        @Raziel83
        Same. I'm really glad that they decided to take it elsewhere. Having a game of choices start over from a series that ended with multiple ending possibilities is difficult work. Coding would be crazy too. But outside of that, the game mechanics, the plot possibilities, and the graphics are so intriguing to me. I'm ready to see what they have done in the past four years. ^^

        Have you all looked up who all of the confirmed crew mates are? I'm really excited to see how (and if) Cora is related to the Illusive Man. I'm also excited to see what these new alien races are like.
 
Ineria said:
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      • Really, guys? I started this thread for Mass Effect: Andromeda, not the original trilogy series. The endings have been a huge thing in the fandom that many members still agree and disagree upon.

        I'm going to ask you all to cease this discussion on this thread. Why? Because this was about Andromeda, not what your opinion of how the original trilogy ended was. I've never seen a "debate" concerning it come to a good conclusion (because it's an argument of opinions. No one is right or wrong), so again, I will implore you to cease fire immediately.

        @Nekrosilisk88
        I understand the trepidation since it's difficult to come back after making such a great series beforehand. I was worried about it myself until I watched more videos of the gameplay. I love open world games, especially with battle systems like Mass Effect. Bioware writing has rarely let me down, and I am excited about the idea of having to craft resources in order to proceed in some quest lines and ultimately, survive. It sounds just open and stressful enough to pull me in over and over again. Lol
        But that's my opinion.
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      • Ah Garrus, there's a reason you were always in my party when i wasn't being an achievement whore. That being said, discussion of Andromeda, and our expectations of it are always going to get tainted by the original trilogy, especially it's ending which was imo unsatisfactory after all the build up, and is the main reason for my trepidation. There were some other problems with the series as it progressed, but as a whole it was good. I haven't really seen anything in regards to Andromeda, mostly by virtue of my policy to avoid hype so I don't go into a game with overblown expectations.
 
...Mitsu, you are way too emotionally attached to this topic if even now, years later you start insulting people and rantin as soon as it is brought even tangentially.

Anyway, I haven't been looking at Andromeda much, saw the latest trailer a while ago and it seemed like "Mass Effect." Desperate situation, different species working together, people taking time to fuck while on a suicidally dangerous mission. Yup, that's Mass Effect all right.
 
Well, I came to this discussion to tell people how hyped I am about this game, and then I saw all the bickering as if ya'll are married and I forgot what I wanted to say.
 
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      • @SithLordOfSnark
        Ha that's pretty fun. And the very reason why I wanted to avoid that shit. Lol But man... it is a game that I'm highly anticipating. It looks gorgeous, immersive, etc. And the advertising is pretty awesome in itself. (Though some people have disagreed and have called it "childish" for some reason.)

        @Raziel83
        Man... If we didn't have a chance to fuck some aliens, it most definitely wouldn't be Mass Effect. Haha
        Though I'm concerned for the shortage of "alien" romances. I see a lot of pushing towards Cora, Liam, and Peebee so far. Which, I have no issue with. I just want more on romancing others. Like Drack. XD (That would be funny af)
 
It is more than likely that they do not want to show all the romance options and other goodies before the game is even out. Leave a few surprises for until the release.
 
Ineria said:

      • You guys! I'm so fucking hype for this game!
        I've played the trilogy so many times over by now, but I honestly cannot wait for this. It looks so good!
        The graphics look super crisp, the gameplay looks hella fun. And the characters look almost as diverse as the ones in the original trilogy.

        Who else is excited for this?
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      • Forgive me for asking, but do you need to have played the previous three to understand Andromeda?
 
The latest trailer seemed nice. I haven't been trying to find all the info on the game because sometimes there are simply too many spoilers even before the game is out.

New enemies, old allies, presumably some new friendly aliens as well but I at least haven't noticed any such in the trailers yet.
 
I don't agree with a lot with Mitsu but he not wrong about the Original Trilogy. NO ONE I know accepted the ending, casual or hardcore regarding the series. Traveling to a new Galaxy is an obvious evasion from the conclusion, avoiding that to focus all the way into a new area.

On ANDROMEDA itself I am of the opinion it be nice to have the more RPG feel of the 1st Mass Effect. The crew members are alright, but I reserve judgment until it's released. Hopeful for memorial teammates although my bias for Krogan has me excited for a crew mate who is Ancient in life span. No doubt we'll get a sliver of reference to the Reapers somewhere or Protheans. Thus far three races are mentioned in Andromeda. Hoping for more for the nerd in me and how limited it'll be with the Andromeda Initiative on board.

Anyone curious about say Biotics in this or if they have their own cool shit in this?
 
Sanoci said:
NO ONE I know accepted the ending, casual or hardcore regarding the series.
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I doubt it, but given the usual response that the people whining about the endings have to those who disagree with them (see above), I wouldn't be surprised if all of the people who disagree with you knew exactly what would happen if they voiced that opinion.
 
Dr. Nibbles said:
Phew, this thread got hot fast. I just wanted to talk about the new game myself but it seems this is still all fired up
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Yeah...

In other news, am I the only one who would have liked to play a non-human character?

We already know the setting so it's not like making the main character Turian or something would mean that the players have no idea what is going on.

Would have given us a nice outside view to the humans in Mass Effect too.

I suppose it could have lead to arguments of "I wanted to play a Krogan!" or "Why can't I have my Vorcha waifu?!" and so on...
 
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