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Circumcision - Should it be the parent's choice?

H

HeyThereLittleBear

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I've been thinking about this a lot lately, as I've recently become the parent of a son and had to do my research on circumcision and the pros/cons of both sides of the debate that is currently on-going among most parents on whether to have the procedure done and why it shouldn't be done.

For most women in the United States, circumcision is still the norm, though it appears to be down trending as such (link takes you to CDC website).
However, in most other areas in the world the rate of circumcision is (usually) much lower.

Circumcision and why it should be done is largely debated, the most popular issues about it are:
Aesthetic - A lot of women who have their sons circumcised do so because they view the cut penis as more sexually/physically attractive than an uncut penis (this view varies from woman to woman).
Cleanliness - Women often have a belief that the uncut penis is less clean than the cut penis as there is an enclosed environment in which bacteria can grow and cause issues such as UTIs, bladder infections, yeast infections, and "dick cheese" as it has been so delightfully named.
Increased rates of catching STIs - CDC information for the US shows that their studies showed the circumcised male has less chances of contracting a sexually transmitted infection, which is why a lot of women on the fence would choose one way or another.
Cultural Acceptance - In my region, the vast majority of men are circumcised so those who are not are seen as different. Women often bring up the possibility of a child being ostracized for having an uncut penis and the fact that he "doesn't match his father" as reasons for getting it cut
Lack of Education - In areas such as the US, there is a lot of misinformation about the care of an uncut penis, which is why some women choose to get their sons cut. Even the doctors in the area don't know the proper care for an uncut penis and often cause damage to the penis through premature retraction, which can cause tears in the foreskin and other issues.

For all of these reasons, it's a major decision for someone to make and the more I thought about it the more I thought about the fact that it's also (whether people acknowledge it as one or not) a surgery that a child must undergo and which can be possibly traumatic for the child.

If you haven't ever seen the procedure being done they have three different ways they perform it (link is NSFW, it's an information video on how they perform infant circumcision), and it requires a local anesthetic to be performed. When discussed with my doctor and in the information pamphlet that I was given, the risks included infection, possible readhesion of the foreskin, and in extreme cases death (yeah, I didn't miss that being listed).

With all of this information, I was sitting in the hospital with the very important question - is it really my choice on whether he should be circumcised?


Yes, I am his parent and I will have to make decisions that will last most likely his entire life and impact him greatly. BUT, that being said, I couldn't come up with a reason why it was my place to make the decision to perform the circumcision with the risks presented and the issues that women presented me when I was debating it.

In my opinion, I don't believe it to really be a parent's choice on whether their son's penis should be cut. I go by the feeling that it's not my body so I don't have the choice to decide a cosmetic surgery.

I went over all of the points that I was given:
Aesthetic - While I personally don't find an uncut male's penis attractive, the man I've been having sex with is a cut male. The penis in question is my son's penis, and my opinion on whether it is or is not attractive doesn't matter. I won't be having sex with him, so I don't get to weigh in on whether I 'like it'. And as I mentioned before, while I prefer a cut male, other women prefer an uncut male. It's all a matter of preference.
Cleanliness - I spoke with a lot of uncut men and came to the rather common sense conclusion that cleanliness is achieved through being taught proper hygiene and teaching someone to care for their body properly. This is my job as a parent anyway. I wouldn't let my daughter do unclean things with her genitals such as wipe back to front, so I wouldn't teach my son bad hygiene
Increased rates of catching STIs - Once again this one boiled down to proper education - proper sex education could teach a male how to prevent all STIs
Cultural Acceptance - There are a lot of culturally unaccepted things I already do, such as don't attend church (I live in the Bible Belt), and this on its own was not enough reason for me to justify giving permission to cut someone else's genitals.
Lack of Education - This is an easy fix by simply educating oneself and spreading the knowledge. Learning how to care for an uncut male wasn't as hard as I thought it would be and the rules are very simple to follow (only clean with water, don't force the foreskin to retract, etc). There will always be a lack of education until someone finally takes the initiative to educate others.



If you can't tell, I made the decision to leave my son uncut because I didn't believe it was my choice. From what I could tell, most issues could be put off until he's old enough to make a decision on his own, in which he would be able to consent to the procedure rather than having it forced upon him at such a young age.

What are your views on it?
If you believe that it really is the parent's choice on whether their son should be circumcised - why?

I'm particularly curious in the reasoning behind why it can't wait until the child is old enough to consent to the procedure but any and all opinions are welcomed.
 
I believe it should be both parents' (together) decision. I don't really care strongly one way or another.
Where I live, there are some circles who get little girls' ears pierced very, very, very, very early. I don't care for the look, and they can't claim religious reasons (though maybe cultural?). I don't like the concept personally but don't care strongly either as long as it's not done by an untrained old lady with no hygiene (unfortunately it is sometimes the case because no professional will do it until a child is much older). What the mothers say is that it's much more painful as a child or an adult than a baby who almost sleeps through the thing. Obviously I don't know.
 
As someone who is circumcised and ISN'T Jewish, I find the practice to be not only useless but invasive. I had my body modified before I was old enough to give consent. My parents literally had ZERO reason to circumcise me. What did it accomplish? Nothing. This especially bothers me, considering a lot of research that's been done on the benefits of having foreskin and its importance to the penis.

The pain factor shouldn't even be considered here. If I wanted my foreskin cut off, I'd go get it done and be put under anesthesia. Simply put, no it shouldn't be the parents choice. Not the doctors choice. Not my grandparents choice. Not my priests choice. Etc. It should be the PERSON'S choice once they are old enough to decide for themselves.
 
As someone who is also circumcised and has no religious heading whatsoever, I really couldn't give a damn if my dick had a sweater on it or not. I'm not really upset that I lost it, I'm not upset about the fact that it was done without my consent, because as a baby, a lot of things were done against my consent to keep me alive, like putting tubes in my ears with the number of ear infections I had and any other thing that happened before I was old enough to retain memory.

That being said, I don't really see why people can't wait for the kid to make the choice themselves either. I doubt it'll change anytime soon considering a lot of people still get circumcised and it's probably extremely weird to be a teenager and have a cocksock and your peers don't, or maybe you find a girl who really gets off on that, who knows? Maybe one day you can put skin back on or something.
 
I am uncircumcised... I cannot say I've had massive issues regarding my penis and the only reason that 'cleanliness' comes into things is because it's just so god damn sensitive! Once you remove the foreskin, you sacrifice an abundance of important sensory tissue that allows for greater pleasure than that given to a circumcised Male. I'd say it's the child's choice... I wouldn't have told my parents to circumcise me and I'm glad that they didn't. All natural and all that jazz! Hope I could be of some assistance... Oh and I'm 18. So if that gives any gravity to my feelings regarding this then... Yes.

I hope I helped in some way, shape or form! ^.^
 
Broomhandle45 said:
As someone who is also circumcised and has no religious heading whatsoever, I really couldn't give a damn if my dick had a sweater on it or not. I'm not really upset that I lost it, I'm not upset about the fact that it was done without my consent, because as a baby, a lot of things were done against my consent to keep me alive, like putting tubes in my ears with the number of ear infections I had and any other thing that happened before I was old enough to retain memory.

That being said, I don't really see why people can't wait for the kid to make the choice themselves either. I doubt it'll change anytime soon considering a lot of people still get circumcised and it's probably extremely weird to be a teenager and have a cocksock and your peers don't, or maybe you find a girl who really gets off on that, who knows? Maybe one day you can put skin back on or something.
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The issue is that there is a tremendous difference between your parents needing to make decisions that could save your life and cutting part of my dick off. Especially when leaving that skin there would cause me no harm. It's there for a reason, it's not like ian apendix that has no real function for us anymore and can cause problems later.

Parents, every day, remove a functioning piece of tissue from their sons...because it looks weird or they can't be damned to take the time to clean it when they wash their son.

Its funny too, because there are MORE problems stemming from actually performing the procedure than not doing it at all. Circumsized males can oftne suffer major sexual problems due to the skin getting cut too far, not far enough, painful erections, desensitization and more.

It's a procedure that has NO merit unless there WAS a rare instance an indevidual's foreskin would cause problems for them.
 
Melevolence said:
Broomhandle45 said:
As someone who is also circumcised and has no religious heading whatsoever, I really couldn't give a damn if my dick had a sweater on it or not. I'm not really upset that I lost it, I'm not upset about the fact that it was done without my consent, because as a baby, a lot of things were done against my consent to keep me alive, like putting tubes in my ears with the number of ear infections I had and any other thing that happened before I was old enough to retain memory.

That being said, I don't really see why people can't wait for the kid to make the choice themselves either. I doubt it'll change anytime soon considering a lot of people still get circumcised and it's probably extremely weird to be a teenager and have a cocksock and your peers don't, or maybe you find a girl who really gets off on that, who knows? Maybe one day you can put skin back on or something.
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The issue is that there is a tremendous difference between your parents needing to make decisions that could save your life and cutting part of my dick off. Especially when leaving that skin there would cause me no harm. It's there for a reason, it's not like an appendix that has no real function for us anymore and can cause problems later.

Parents, every day, remove a functioning piece of tissue from their sons...because it looks weird or they can't be damned to take the time to clean it when they wash their son.

Its funny too, because there are MORE problems stemming from actually performing the procedure than not doing it at all. Circumcised males can often suffer major sexual problems due to the skin getting cut too far, not far enough, painful erections, desensitization and more.

It's a procedure that has NO merit unless there WAS a rare instance an individual's foreskin would cause problems for them.
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I agree.
 
Most of those issues can be the byproduct of the doctor being crappy and not so much the procedure itself, I'm not arguing that the entire process could probably have some more overhead on when you could do it or am I arguing that the procedure has a point. I'm saying that in the west it's culturally accepted to have your dick cut and unless something like that changes, it'll continue to be that way because that's just how it is. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other, in fact I didn't really know much about uncircumcised penises until I was about sixteen or so and read about it. If I had a kid, I'd probably see no reason in snipping him because there is none. If he wanted to do it later, whatever.

But I'm not going to hold a grudge over my parents snipping my foreskin.
 
Any penis can have "dick cheese" if not properly washed. That's why proper hygiene needs to be stressed with everyone because dirty genitals are gross no matter what gender you are.
 
I strongly believe circumcision is the byproduct of ignorance. That shit hurts the baby and just because they are too young to remember does not make it right. Baby boys are not born broken. They don't need a cosmetic surgery to be fixed. A cut dick can be just as nasty as an uncut dick if you don't teach your son proper hygiene. I call bullshit on it being more sanitary. The vast majority of the world is uncut, I dont give a shit about our culture. It's not my choice to permanently remove apart of my child so he can be socially accepted or whatever.

If the US was more educated about sex we wouldn't have people talking about dick cheese.

I'm giving birth to my son in two weeks. He will be in tact.
 
yeah, I'm against all genital mutilation, both female and male, yet the male one is excused as a medical nessecity, which frankly I don't agree with. I mean, yes it's just a piece of skin, but so are your eyelids.

and for the cosmetic angle, admit it ladies, all dicks look weird, cut, uncut, small, big, straight as a board or with a bend in it, hairy or shaven. and anyway, when an uncut dick becomes erect it looks a lot like a cut one.
 
Well, for one, they usually circumcise infants because it is less painful than when they are in their puberty, ages ten to twelve years. Although, many circumcisions also happen around that age. Also, infants will not remember the painful process when they grow older as opposed to doing it in their tens or twelves.

Secondly, it is true that it is cleaner to have a cut penis. But for aesthetics? Not so much. It varies from people to people anyway.

Thirdly, I think one main reason was that it also lessens sexual pleasure. It was also a Jewish tradition. So circumcised means clean both physically and from sexual promiscuity. Other than that, it serves no other purpose.

Given that, we can see that I am more leaning to uncut. The cleanliness issue can be solved by additional effort in cleaning. And for Christians, they no longer follow Jewish traditions. The symbolism of having our sins cut can be seen with Jesus sacrificing to save is from sin. So in essence, we are circumcised from sin through Jesus. (I guess the last one regarding religion is a bit of stretch I read somewhere)

Well, I'm glad I'm uncut. My dad did not like the idea of infants having an operation.
 
Drexel said:
But still, dick cheese is more prevalent to an uncut dick XD
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Please, stop. Smegma, aka "dick cheese" is produced by both men and women(on women it forms around the clitoris). Mother nature didnt intend for you to use KY jelly every time you need to get intimate with someone so she gave us a natural lubricant. You will only see a build up of it on ANYONE if they haven't washed in a few months. I found this out by searching "uncut dick myths" on Google while researching for an uncircumsized character a couple years ago. You can too.

I know in America we're encouraged to be pretty ignorant about our own and each others bodies but please, before anybody comes in here parroting old wives tales or the like, first, think if that makes logical sense( hmmmm, the male body naturally comes out of the womb with an uncut dick...so we HAVE to cut it to keep them safe? It's not like man has been around waving elephant trunks for hundreds of thousands of years, or the fact that only 20-30% of the world cuts their dicks now, so sounds legit! Etc.) and then hit the search bar. It's not hard and you'll enjoy it. Learning is fun!
 
Drexel said:
But still, dick cheese is more prevalent to an uncut dick XD
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'Dick cheese' is more prevalent to unwashed dicks. It's also equally prevalent in unwashed vaginas. Besides, the lubricant that makes up the 'dick cheese' is always there, and if you have good genital hygiene, it remains clear and clean. The 'cheese' part is just dead skin cells, which comes off in both men and women. The buildup of dead skin cells and lubricant probably happens faster in uncircumcised penises because of the foreskin, but it doesn't mean that men can't keep it any less clean than a circumcised penis. The 'dick cheese' buildup can happen quickly in women as well because of the skin folds (clitoral hood and inner labia), but that doesn't mean we should cut off our labia so it's easier to clean.

Really, the easiest way to avoid any kind of 'dick' and 'cheese' together in the same sentence is to wash regularly down there with some mild soap. You don't want to remove all the lubrication... As Quin pointed out, it's there for a reason. Dry genitals sound really bad, haha.
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I thought the practice of circumcision was originally developed a century or two ago....and I'm stating this rather bluntly here...by a man who was absolutely abhorred by the idea of male masturbation. From my understanding he made the statement of how masturbation went against whatever religion he was part of and basically scared the shit out of parents their sons would all be damned to hell if they masturbated and to "correct" the urge for masturbation he had discovered that cutting the foreskin of a male's penis made it less sensitive to stimulation through rubbing or any kind of handling. He theorized boys would be less opt to masturbate if they did not gain any real sense of pleasure from it.

Make no mistake I've heard and read through the more modern/scientific reasons behind cutting a male but frankly I always believed it should be my child's choice once they were an adult if they would like to have the procedure done. I agree with Little Bear. It's not MY body I'm making a choice about but a choice for the body of my child, a choice that will remain with them through their entire life. So long as I actually take the time to teach my child how to properly clean and take care of himself the risk of infection, disease, etc, etc, is lessened. I honestly wouldn't want to run the risk of a mistake being made in the procedure and my child ending up with an injury that will never heal and could cause many problems down the road when they are older and perhaps wish to start families of their own or at least be responsible about the sex they have to say the least.
 
Circumcision made my first sexual encounter a lot more difficult and painful than it needed to be. I don't self lubricate at all - completely dry - so that little extra bit of loose skin was the only natural lubricant I had genetically. Especially at my girth where oral sex means teeth - as much as I love it.
 
I would like to point out that "circumcised dicks are less likely to catch STDs" thing only applies if you aren't using a condom. Which is a mistake if you are having sex with a random person. Use condoms kids, it protects you AND your partners!

And if you are using a condom, then the odds of catching an STD are the same regardless of circumcision or lack of it.

In my opinion the only reason to circumcise is if the doctor finds one of the few medical reasons for it.
 
Well I am on both sides I guess. I'm circumcised and both my sons are also circumsised as it is our religious practice which we call tahara (there are many other words too) and it basically means purification.

Being a father who has had two sons who have gone through this procedure, the cleaning aspect of it wasn't really a problem when we first brought them home. We just had to be gentle until it healed and made sure their penises were clean before we closed the diaper up. Now if you're a parent who was going to let your child sit in a dirty diaper for about three plus hours after they went through circumcision than yeah of course your kids going to get an infection.

I've been told it's my " terrorist ignorance" that has led me to do such "heinous" acts upon my children, words of some Islamic haters. But it has much more deeper meaning for us. It's apart of our child's purification, when a son is born the father whispers the call to prayer in the right ear of the child. Then our baby must taste something sweet, date juice or something similar. We then slaughter two sheep or goats if it's a boy and then one if it's a girl. On our baby's seventh day of life we name it, and after this if the child is male we circumcise him. Although for our children they were circumcised at the hospital a few days after they were born, then there is a bit more but it all plays a role in our child's blessing. It's just a step to our God. Who already loved them before hand but now that love is stronger because of the steps we took as parents.
For some people yes I know your going to call bullshit but that's my and my wife's religious practice.

Many people believe it should be their child's choice and maybe it should but I know for a fact that being circumcised at an all older age is probably worse then doing it when you're younger. My good friend converted and he decided he wanted to go through with it, he made several jokes that he wished his mother would of did this 32 years ago. All depends on the person mind you. But it's hard to know if your kid will grow up to want to be circumcised or not. So we definitely didn't choose to do it because it "looked nicer" for me that's a little selfish. It looks nicer......ok then. People think they are put to sleep through this but because it is such a minimal procedure they don't unless they absolutely have to.

I'm circumcised of course and yeah my penis is good and sensitive as it is, anymore and that shit would be unpleasant :p . Some people make it out to seem that men with cut penises have no feeling in them XD I got that from my wife's very southern mom. Who thinks I'm a bombshell on wheels that stole and manipulated their daughter. Haha anywho

So I'm not going to scold parents or make anyone feel horrible about getting their kid circumcised and I'm not going to do that to people who didn't or aren't circumcised because really it's none of my buisness I guess. For me it was a spiritual and personal matter and because my wife was not practicing Islam when we first met and married, when she first got pregnant and we found out we were having a boy I made sure if she wanted it or not. So it wasn't all my choice I made sure my wife had a say, as it is her kid too and she has the right if not more to decide for our son. My wife did convert and we did go through with it together. As for the family and their 4 boys next door. I don't care. None of my business.

My wife is due to have our baby this December and we were told that it was a boy and yes he was going to be circumcised, then soon found out that oops it's a girl.(long story). But if we did have another son yes, and many people are going to be like "you dumb idiot." But like I said none of my business how you run and live your life and family so I don't think it's any of yours how me and other people live theirs. As long as you're not someone who's going to look down and Criticize people even though you don't agree with it then that's fine I respect that. It's the people like my wife's family that drive me up the wall.
It's basically like the whole problem surrounding abortion I believe. Your going to have people who hate it and think it's horrible, people who just don't care it's none of their business, and people who think it's fine and should be legal. It's always going to be like that. People have talked about banning circumcision and personally that would just be a bad idea. You don't want people doing that shit themselves. So it's better to educate and have it as an option in the end.

So yeah that's my thoughts on it, i was a little hesitant to post as many people are not for it and I'm not one to really get into fights on here, or have people dislike me for my religious practice. But for me, you do you. I asked my wife about it and she is in the same boat. If we weren't religious I'm not too sure if our sons would be or not, but we are so *shrugs* haha I'm going stop rambling.
 
In my personal opinion, I say it’s definitely a “let them get it done themselves” thing. I realize that you’re looking for a logical argument, but I’m going to add a little bit more of my personal feelings first.
Think about how it would affect your child’s body image, being changed, forever, irrevocably, against their will.
Think about what could go wrong. removing too much springs to mind, and feeds back to body image mentioned above.
Think about what they’d miss without it. Imagine if someone snipped off the clitoris, since it serves a similar purpose to the foreskin. Yeah, not very fun.

Now I realize my argument here is a bunch of non-logical, sour-grapes fueled ranting, but maybe I made a valid point.
 
It is hard to say. There are studies around the world, indicating that circumcision for some reason, reduce the transmission of HIV. So in high prevalence countries, it could serve as a public health and safety measure. Female circumcision should never be justified.

In terms of male circumcision, I believe it should be upto the individual to choose whats happening to their body when they are mature enough to decide. Just like with religion and culture. One should have the right to decide rather than forced upon them.
 
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