THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!! (Raise the Character Age Bracket???)

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RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Changing the age higher would make this site a better place because we wouldn't have to deal overly much with people who don't want to follow the rules. There would be a better way of policing the age limit because there is a huge difference [usually] between what a 16 and 13 year old look like. There would be less room to contest "What doesn't breach the age limit."

As someone who has modded a few sites before (albeit in corporate settings) I can attest a certain percentage of people will try and break the rules no matter what they are.

So this rule change shouldn't be about getting people to follow rules. I think raising the age to 15 or 16 would make drawing a line a tad easier for the mods, but then you've got more people who will try and bend things to smuggle in characters that would have been okay under the old rules. It's a wash in that regard, or it likely will be.

If/when rules like this are changed, it should be about what the site seeks to be, what users of the site want, and making sure the site admins comply with the law.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

For my money, I'm fine with 16+. Anyone whom has looked at my threads knows I self-enforce a 16+ rule anyway; there's a certain kind of physical body I like that just doesn't happen in early puberty, not to mention I personally feel skeevy about doing anything younger anyway. However I'd also like to add that I personally am very glad that anything above 16+ is not on the table. It's not a massive kink for me; I don't seek to always RP with characters under the age of 18. But I like to at least have that option. I liken it to a particularly strong spice in a stew. For my RP's, it doesn't make or break the whole thing, and I don't use it a ton, but it's nice in small doses and sometimes I enjoy having it.

I think 16+ is entirely reasonable because frankly, unless I'm vastly mistaken, I believe 16 is the age of consent more often than not in the US and around the world (though around the world it's often younger, which weirds me out). Obviously legal exceptions exist for teachers and similar positions of power and legally I think that makes perfect sense but in roleplays I think such freedoms should be allowed, as taboos can be fun.

Clearly, everyone is protected legally as long as everything remains entirely literary and no illegal pictures and similar are used, and that's how it should be. But morally, it's a little more muddled, and I think raising the age to 16+ is a nice compromise in allowing creative freedoms while maintaining a strong moral compass (or as strong as can be discussing frequently dirty and taboo subjects), and will avoid slippery slopes a little more.

I also see the perspectives of those against the rule change, however, and I also acknowledge it's easy for me to say because a 16+ rule wouldn't impact me whatsoever anyway because of my personal preferences.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I am perfectly fine with upping the age limit to sixteen. My characters are usually earl twenties, if not late teens anyway. I have no fancy words, nor ache for the headache that would accompany me with typing out my reasons, but I am all for it. DA did an amazing job summing it up. Up it.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

So because it supposedly "won't change a thing," we should just give up and let the users do whatever the fuck they want because "I wanna be creative, dammit! You can't hinder me!"? Seriously?

That kind of defeatist attitude would have let this site go to shit ages ago.

If we want a change, we have to work for it, and changing an age limit, an age limit doesn't do any hindering whatsoever except to weed out those creepers who are into kiddies. We aren't saying don't write whatever you want, we're saying be goddamn reasonable about the ages of your characters because as adults, you should know better than to just bitch and moan like children.

As I said, if this offends you, I don't care. I want this site to be better and upping age limits can do that. This is a writing site, as has been stated so many goddamn times, if you're looking for smutty/pornographic crap, use Google. I don't care how badly you write, what you write, or who you write with so long as you have fun, enjoy yourself, and follow the rules. If an age limit suddenly ruins all that for you, then this site possibly isn't for you if you're gonna tweak over a small change as two years. Two years, not five, not seven but potentially two.

That's my side of it so there you go.

And Karen: No shit. A percentage of people will always try to break/skirt the rules. That in no means hinders what we try to do here or stop us from trying to enforce the rules. We don't just give up because "Oh shit, more people broke the rules. Fuck." We go, "Well, we need to find a better way to make sure people have no room to break rules."

And if they break the really important ones? Done. Gone. End of story.

I've watched this site grow and change and it has always been for the better since DA became admin. If you have a problem with the age change, speak your piece as some of you have done, but don't bitch because "You've hindered my creativity!" If you can't work around an age limit, you have no room to bitch if you can't be creative enough to work with it.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Yeah that's true too and I agree, Hahvoc. If we were talking 18+ I could buy the creativity argument, but holy shit guys. We're talking 16 or even fucking 15 because DA is a saint. How much more do you really need? Know what? Don't answer that. Anyway, up it to 15+, 16+, whatever.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Hahvoc The Decepticon said:
So because it supposedly "won't change a thing," we should just give up and let the users do whatever the fuck they want because "I wanna be creative, dammit! You can't hinder me!"? Seriously?

That kind of defeatist attitude would have let this site go to shit ages ago.

If we want a change, we have to work for it, and changing an age limit, an age limit doesn't do any hindering whatsoever except to weed out those creepers who are into kiddies. We aren't saying don't write whatever you want, we're saying be goddamn reasonable about the ages of your characters because as adults, you should know better than to just bitch and moan like children.

As I said, if this offends you, I don't care. I want this site to be better and upping age limits can do that. This is a writing site, as has been stated so many goddamn times, if you're looking for smutty/pornographic crap, use Google. I don't care how badly you write, what you write, or who you write with so long as you have fun, enjoy yourself, and follow the rules. If an age limit suddenly ruins all that for you, then this site possibly isn't for you if you're gonna tweak over a small change as two years. Two years, not five, not seven but potentially two.

That's my side of it so there you go.

And Karen: No shit. A percentage of people will always try to break/skirt the rules. That in no means hinders what we try to do here or stop us from trying to enforce the rules. We don't just give up because "Oh shit, more people broke the rules. Fuck." We go, "Well, we need to find a better way to make sure people have no room to break rules."

And if they break the really important ones? Done. Gone. End of story.

I've watched this site grow and change and it has always been for the better since DA became admin. If you have a problem with the age change, speak your piece as some of you have done, but don't bitch because "You've hindered my creativity!" If you can't work around an age limit, you have no room to bitch if you can't be creative enough to work with it.

The above thread can be summarized as "Deal with it."
There's nothing else there besides profanity and a complete disrespect for the opposing opinion.
Expected better from a green, but I guess everything can't be perfect.

Firstly, it's not about a defeatist attitude, or twiddling thumbs. It's a matter of whether the suggested change would actually lead to the desired objectives. While it may not affect the majority of players, I don't see that as a valid reason to disregard the preferences and kinks of certain minorities simply because you think they're 'creepers' that need to be 'weeded' out. If anyone's bitching and moaning here without point my finger would immediately point towards you before all others. While improper behavior may be a common trait (supposedly) for the people that play young characters, it's certainly not an exclusive one. And my opinion is that the issue needs to be dealt with in a manner which provides the most benefit, with the least sacrifice.

Your third paragraph isn't only rude, but lacks any relevance to the topic whatsoever. "I don't care" is an obnoxious comment to use in any proper debate, and the quality and matters addressed above in your post clearly display the lack of understanding or concern over the matter. Writing as 13 year old girl may be disturbing, but it's no more smutty/pornographic than a 18 year old having sex. It involves different aspects, but the smut levels remain largely unchanged. Unless you're saying that a 13 year old is somehow more sexual than an 18 year old? @_@ Also it'd be great if you learned basic math, 16-13 is not "two" it's three. Hopefully that was either a typo, or you're referring to DA's proposal of 15. Since that's a pretty embarrassing error to make. (15 is a compromise, I still think the issue at hand is 16 as DA pointed out that would be preferred)

"I don't care how badly you write, what you write, or who you write with so long as you have fun, enjoy yourself, and follow the rules."
Seeing as how there are players who play 'underaged' character within the current boundary, it shouldn't be a concern for you what the age limit is if this is the case. You seem to be under the false impression that those not-completely supportive of the change are telling you to roll over and ignore it. Reading your post, I get the same impression, while I admit that BMR is a great community, and that a significant part of that can be credited to DA. But you're post in a nutshell is "DA thinks it should be changed, shut up and deal with it." I'm not even sure who you're directing the "You hindered my creativity!" comment at, since I can't recall anyone 'bitching' that their creativity would be significantly hampered. Someone might have mentioned that it'd impact their enjoyment, but in all honesty, what affects someone's enjoyment is a personal thing, and if they feel it would diminish their interests, by all means they should voice their opinion, even if certain people consider it 'bitch' about it. If anything there's been more 'bitching' for the change then against.

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The only valuable point I gleaned from the above post was;
"Well, we need to find a better way to make sure people have no room to break rules."
Quite possibly the only sentence with any value.

It's been expressed that underage characters are one of the sites biggest problems. Hence, if the problem were to be addressed logically, wouldn't it be better to police the current 13 limit more vigorously, than to increase the age limitation and add an extra THREE years to that minimum? I know this'd be a burden on current staff, so creating a new usergroup for snitches Reporters to pick up on these characters would be more effective wouldn't it? I mean there's a lot of people who feel strongly about it, so I doubt there'd be a shortage in volunteers.

If it makes it any easier, even creating a tribunal system where a reported post can be viewed by fellow Reporters and voted upon would make it easier. Especially if a bit of simple coding could be done so that enough votes could lead to the topic being locked and reported to a higher staff member. Seeing as how the reported post has several people condemning it, numbers could be cited to demand a change/removal. And the offender could appropriately be punished.

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Bit of a rant, but it just illustrates an alternative angle this could be approached from. Karen's right, there'll always be people who try to slip beneath the rules, and simply upping the age probably won't do much to deter the troublemaker from staying here. If they were neglecting the rules before, what makes you think they'll start respecting them when you increase the conditions of the rules? My stance as I've stated isn't supportive or against the increase in age limit, but I hate seeing unnecessary rules, and the current approach makes me think that the only people who will be punished with the age change will be those playing characters 13~15 tastefully.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I agree with the majority of Aise's post. Havoc's argument seems to be based on, "It's gross, and I don't like it, so it shouldn't be allowed." It's a terrible argument to make. I understand that her frustrations lay elsewhere, that this is an issue that has been a headache to moderate, but she's making the wrong argument. I'm assuming that Hahvoc, DA, and Veksied aren't necessarily making that argument (I believe Hahvoc is just a opinionated). Upping the age limit is a preventative measure. The idea is that, while it won't dissuade current rule breakers, it might just prevent more. If someone sees that this is not a place for such young characters, they might not join at all. However, the wisdom of this move might be questioned, because it apparently is not working with those that want to role-play characters below thirteen. It brings me to the comment Hahvoc made about sticking to your guns anyway, and enforcing the rule. Plenty of people ignore rules, but that isn't a good enough reason not to have them. So, if this rule change will actually benefit Blue Moon, then this is the correct line of thinking. But, will it? I think it's at least worth trying.

Furthermore, what about rape, snuff, bestiality, and incest? These are all things that I'm sure plenty of people have a serious problem with. To them they are gross, wrong, and completely amoral. Why not enforce a ban on these things as well? This is a writing site, and not a smut site, after all.

This brings me to my next point: I have a slight issue with the assertion that this is a "writing" site. I have no problem with the idea, and actually like it very much. However, it is clear that the majority of the users do not use it as such. The most popular writing areas of the site are filled with smut. Now, I understand that doesn't make it a smut site, just because users use it that way. Some people eat in the living room, but that doesn't make it the "dining" room. I do think that Blue Moon has a problem with branding. There is an entire section for "Non Sexual Role-Playing". Regardless of intent, this automatically puts in the minds of the users that the other forums are to be used for sexual means. If the objective is to make Blue Moon into a writing site, then there has to be a consistent message on all levels. Everything about the website must say, "This is a creative writing environment. It is for adults, and may feature adult content, but first and foremost, this is about literature." An example I'd like to use is Deviant Art. It's a website full of adult content, but nothing about the website says that the site is about such content. It is about art, nothing else.

Basically, I just wish the emotional, moral argument would go away.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I am pondering everyone's arguments and views at present and am trying to determine the best course of action here--to change the age, to keep the age as is, etc etc etc. Trust me when I say that I'm weighing all the options and listening to everything. EVERYTHING. I am far from taking this lightly and while my own views on things matter, your views matter just as much here to me. So I will do what I think is best in the long run for the site and the members who frequent it.

That said, I'm going to close this thread and mull. A lot. I will be sure to let people know my final decision as soon as it's made. Thank your for your input and insight. It really has been much appreciated by me.
 
RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Ohh... one final thing. If anyone has anything further to add, please do not hesitate to drop me a PM. My PM-box is open.
 
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