THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!! (Raise the Character Age Bracket???)

[Mitsu]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I'd like to point out that Aise posted while I was typing this up, and some of what I have to say is now somewhat redundant redundant.

I like how the second I post something, I'm immediately proven wrong! It's a good thing in this case, though. I was interested in whether or not the other side would pop up and provide a compelling argument. KarenNelson has pretty much made the best defense for the act as anyone probably can (again, I set myself up to put my foot in my mouth). While I personally don't care either way, I do hold many of the same views that KarenNelson mentioned.

I do think that people should be aware that a driving motivation behind the change is not necessarily only the legal issues. What I have perceived so far is that the lower age limit just attracts trouble. For the normal user it's likely an unknown. However, for the folk that run this place, it appears to be a constant headache. From what I've observed, this single rule has been more of a problem to the staff than any other single rule, because many of the people that are into it always try to circumvent it.

However, should we punish everyone for the actions of the "creepy fucking" (I laughed at this Veksied) few (relative)? For as many of those types that are apparently attracted to the message board, there are likely far more that enjoy playing characters younger than 16-- pretty much talking out of my ass here, but who knows the real statistics? Nobody likes it when others act like jackasses and ruins their fun.

What it comes down to are the subjective moral opinions of most of the people that are posting here, and I don't think it should. I would rather see this decision made solely on whether or not it is a positive move for the message board as a whole. Would it actually benefit Blue Moon in any kind of empirically observable way? As it was mentioned in the other thread, such content in text isn't exactly illegal, so this isn't a legal matter.

I personally don't care what the outcome is, but I just hope that it is reached for good reasons.

 

[Incubus Dreams]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Like I said before, I feel that the legality of the matter is an issue for the back burner. The federal governments don't play around with stuff like this, but as Veksied made aware to me, no such restrictions are yet in place for such a thing. I addition, I do not personally think that any such restrictions will come anytime soon considering that the current administration is up in arms about vastly different issues at the moment. I won't mention anything specific because this is not a political debate.

The morality of it is, I feel, an issue to be discussed and I wish that more people from the other side of the track would step in here with legitimate logic that is displayed in a rational and respectful manner such as that posted by VikingPanda and Aise. They both bring up important issues that need to be taken into consideration and weighed against the 'Cons' of keeping the age limit where it is at. A lot of people seem to want this change, but it is ultimately a decision to be made by the mods that boils down to "Is this change going to affect role players who are taking advantage of, but not abusing this rule?" and "Is keeping the age limit where it is at worth the growing threat of these 'creepy fucking' few?"

Now that a couple of people have come forward with valid arguments, I am sure that the decision that is made, whatever it is, will be made for the right reasons with the best of intentions.

 

[Myn]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Outside of that, there is no reason that such a scenario could not occur between the same girl at sixteen when the boy is seventeen, or at eighteen when the boy is nineteen; depending on where this debate is taken. If the girl has lived a sheltered life, then it would deliver the same effect mentally, which is what should be important in this situation. I see both sides because I love the idea of corrupting the pure, a concept that could easily carry from a fourteen year old girl to a sheltered, blossoming adult character of sixteen or eighteen.

I posted a textwall earlier, but left this specific part seperate as it was something I wanted to address separately.

This is not a solution, and is exactly the type of mentality that the rule breakers use. As stated previously I'm on other sites where the rule is 18+ and people constantly have to make their characters 18 and in their final year to enjoy the highschool setting. That's not an issue really, but the mentality of, "Oh I'll just bump the age up and play my character the same way" is not what we should be aiming for. If this attitude were to be taken an increased age requirement would only encourage rulebreaking, not deter.
Magic Breeze put it well;

I was going to pose the problem/question of whether it would really change much. I've seen how people weasel through the rule, making characters 13 only in number...(Like with sickness or undead...ness, as an excuse for the character not being developed, physically and/or mentally.)

 

[Incubus Dreams]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Outside of that, there is no reason that such a scenario could not occur between the same girl at sixteen when the boy is seventeen, or at eighteen when the boy is nineteen; depending on where this debate is taken. If the girl has lived a sheltered life, then it would deliver the same effect mentally, which is what should be important in this situation. I see both sides because I love the idea of corrupting the pure, a concept that could easily carry from a fourteen year old girl to a sheltered, blossoming adult character of sixteen or eighteen.

I posted a textwall earlier, but left this specific part seperate as it was something I wanted to address separately.

This is not a solution, and is exactly the type of mentality that the rule breakers use. As stated previously I'm on other sites where the rule is 18+ and people constantly have to make their characters 18 and in their final year to enjoy the highschool setting. That's not an issue really, but the mentality of, "Oh I'll just bump the age up and play my character the same way" is not what we should be aiming for. If this attitude were to be taken an increased age requirement would only encourage rulebreaking, not deter.

I'll admit, my example was situationaly dependent and could have been worded better. That said, bumping the age and playing the character the exact same way is, by no means, what I meant in that post. Regardless of age, a virgin is a virgin, and if you manage to still be such when you reach the age of eighteen then you are most certainly aware of sex and have more than likely made a conscious choice to remain pure. It is the corruption of this purity that I enjoy most in sexual RP, which can come from a character of any age.

That said, you make a fair point and it is yet another thing that the admins will have to consider. No matter what we raise the age to, people will try to circumvent the rules. Another question that need to be considered is; "Will a bump in age truly lower that or would it make the problem worse?"

Again; hense this thread to collect opinions.

 

[Vekseid]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

The limit is not going to be increased above 16. It's not even on the table to do so. Know a lot of people who weren't trying to skirt this rule were at the upper end of this range, so something like "15 if you've had a history of roleplaying of-age characters here, or otherwise were playing 15 before the rule change" would not bother me, but it does complicate the rule, which is always annoying. On the other hand it would make that sort of person stick out even more, so that may be a plus.

As for enforcement... I can't actually speak for staff here. I let DA and her team have free reign over how this site is run, for the most part, and what she says goes - you can appeal things to me, of course, but I like the dichotomy between Blue Moon, Elliquiy, and other sites I host, and really prefer that they stay largely separate. Sometimes I'll give general advice. Neck-breathing bad. Live and let live good. All the same, allowing a bad atmosphere to persist also bad. One must find balance.

As mentioned, it's more than just the creep factor that is influencing this decision. That said, my reasons are environmental, DA's reasons are partly environmental, Hahvoc's reasons are environmental. We've all had to deal with people that drag the overall atmosphere of the site down, and if they could run off and make their own little site again, that would be awesome, and then they could concentrate their festering mass there.

 

[UltraMechaStalin]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

16 is absolutely reasonable and I have no idea why the site hasn't ALWAYS been 16 minimum age for characters.

 

[darkangel76]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

My decision is definitely based on more than just the creep factor, though it is part of it. I think I've stated it enough times as to what my reasons are and why I have them. So, I'll leave that be. As for those who enjoy writing such RPs, I have no issue with it in a general sense. As I've clearly stated, there are those who write in it with clear taste and reality, but there are those who push things to levels that are...... I'll leave it at that. That being said, as a fair compromise, if people are strongly adverse to raising the bar to 16, I'd be all right with capping things at 15. But I wouldn't want to go lower and in all honesty I'd prefer things to be at 16. Though, to try and find compromise and such, I'd willing to see the bar raised to 15 if it made people happier--raising the age while keeping things at that age that gives off that feel of innocence, etc. I just find 13, 14 to be too young myself. And while I feel 15 is still too young, I could accept that as a compromise. So there's another thing people can ponder if they wish................

 

[Halaster]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I suppose it's time for me to add something else to this. Aise pointed out quite a few good points, and it's honestly refreshing to see someone who can argue about this in such an intelligent way. My arguing skills aren't 'quite' that up to par, so I'll just say what I can.

-Policing the Rule-
Personally I'm not too fond of the idea, but have to admit I've always seen the 13 limit as a bit gracious. I mean other sites I go to only allow 18 and they're absolutely nazi about it. While I'm all for a member-friendly community, I really don't want to see BM degrade itself to the point where staff members are breathing down everyone's necks posting "Please clarify the age of your characters." Half the time characters aren't even intended to be underage, and it just looks bad on the community. Policing is important, but things need to be done in moderation.

As far as the BM moderation team goes, generally, this is done in good taste and with a level-headed attitude. I say generally because... Well, I'll admit there are times where I was dubious of a decision being taken, and even times where I felt that things were being hunted down rather viciously, or vicariously. Like trying to prove that something was loli/shota when it was really just a certain style, or something that while potentially underage, was completely harmless. I won't point out any other instances, as I respect every other members of the staff, and I assure you that all of them are very competent and well intentioned when dealing with this kind of thing... But it can be difficult sometimes. Difficult to see what is what and which is which.

This is a concern that I'm actually worried about, as I enjoy the atmosphere on this site much more than others for the simple sake that it is 'lenient' in some aspects. Raising the bar just means more limitations, more carefulness, and more policing as a result. I'm not saying that this couldn't be done while still keeping the same attitude/relaxed feel of the site... But still, it worries me a little, I'll admit.

-Raising the age to 18, 21-
To be honest, I'm not completely against raising it to 16, but any higher would probably impact my interest here on BMR. And I doubt I'd be the only one. As stated prior, I'm on a few other sites that have a 18+ character rule, and frankly that cuts out the highschool years completely. A period/setting I'm rather fond of Rping. This might be a bit too personal, but my first sexual experience was during my highschool years, and I'm sure that applies to a fair few others as well. (Certainly wasn't 13, but later year highschool).

Furthermore, having 18+ Brother/Sister Rp's detracts from the appeal there as well. I moved out of home when I was 18, and while I've never had a brother. The idea of 'sibiling sexual taboo' isn't as strong after the 18 bar. Other things would be affected too, but seeing as the suggestion at present is 16, I'll leave it at that.

This is one I fully agree with, when I originally joined this site, I did it because of how lenient about that specific rule this place was. I googled other 'Adult roleplaying' forums, and saw a few who shall remained unnamed where the mods were... Well... Nazis, elitists, and generally mean spirited when dealing with their members. Some were particularly bad about it, and just seeing the staff made me want to stay away from those places.

A LOT of our RPs involve highschool and brother/sister RPs. In actuality, if I was to say that a good majority of our RP take place in either of those two settings, it probably wouldn't be too far away from the truth, and anyone who has taken any amount of time to browse the request forums over the past few months will definitely agree with me. Raising the bar to 16 would and could definitely affect that, as some of the 'taboo' aspect's feel is definitely lost the further you go up. 16 will still do it for some people, but it might for others. The highschool setting will be difficult to play at best, as I believe that in most instances, 16 is the age of graduation for that, correct me if I'm wrong... So that means that people could only RP such a setting with 'final years' characters in the same setting, which limits it quite a bit... And then there comes the issue of policing that. And huh... Yeah, I'm drifting off, so I'm going to move on.

-Focus and Objective-
As stated countless times, it's up to the administration team of BMR to decide, but I'd like to point out that it's important to keep focused on the issue, and the problem you're aiming to solve. I've read through the posts thus far, and I can completely understand why some people have misinterpreted the objective of this rule as an 'attack' on a certain kink.

I won't say people's opinions are invalid, (since they are important) but a lot of support seems at the moment seems to be
"I don't like it, up the bar."
That's like me saying, "I don't like Futa's, they should be banned" or "incest/ageplay is gross and shouldn't be allowed"
I understand that this isn't the reasons behind why the staff brought it up. But too many people have expressed support based on a simple dislike for the kink. Scat disgusts a lot of us, that doesn't mean it should be banned as a whole.

I didn't fail to see that either. Now, I understand that the general idea people will immediately jump on as far as this thing goes is that it's 'you know what' related. But one simple fact remains: Everyone on this site is 18 and consenting, and if they aren't, then we need to get rid of those people. (And we do so quite often in fact.)

If we're going to raise the bar it should definitely NOT be because of simple dislike, but rather for something that would improve the site as a whole. Rules are made based on what is best for a community, not based on what certain might dislike. I know that DA and Veks certainly didn't want to get rid of the rule based on 'simple dislike', that much is quite clear... But certain people have voiced their opposition in a manner that is basically 'I hate it, get rid of it.' which fails to bring any constructive points to a thread that should be all about constructive arguing and bringing forth good and bad sides of doing so.

-Overall-
If there's strong evidence that upping the minimum character age to 16 will improve player behavior, and weed out less desirable players, then I'm willing to support the change. My biggest personal concern with this rule change is that I like using visuals, anime visuals at that for Rping, and as most are aware, they tend to look a bit younger than the creator officially announces. My biggest concern regarding this change therefore is the attitude change from staff. BMR is currently my favorite adult RP site due to it's friendly community.

I was intending to not contrast, but I'll just outright say it. Eros's minimum age used to be 16, and that worked pretty well. (Support for the change) however, the moment the age limitation was upped to 18, the community started getting a bit unpleasant for me. I'm not bitter about it seeing as I was never banned, or even warned. But after a few weeks I just stopped checking the site, and after just checking in on it now, I can see it's changed very little from the time I left.

I'm going to go on a limb and say that nothing will change. Sure it'll probably weed out 'some' of those who were trying to loophole the rules and play as things under 13, or characters who looked under 13 and were simply mentioned as being 13... But then, we'll get the same result with 16. People will try to loophole around that as well, and we'll suddenly be faced with trying to determine if a character is 16 or not, and some people will say 'this character is 16' when it'll be more in the age range of 13-15... Which used to be legitimate on this site, so would those people really be doing anything wrong? When the intent of upping said bar was to get rid of creepers? Would 'I' be considered a creeper since I did such RPs and the limit has changed? A creeper from the past, like some twisted time travel movie?

I don't think so. The fact remains that even by raising a bar, or by adding another number, the issue will still be there, just with a different number. We'll deal with the same issues, and the same kind of people, just in a generally different subsetting. As such, it is and has always been 'our' (the mods and admins) duty to deal with those people, and I believe that we've all been doing a good job of it... And will continue to do so regardless of a rule change or not. This is our job, and we do it well, and I can't speak for the others... But I personally like doing it, I enjoy helping this site, and I want to keep doing so for as long as I can.

-Final Word-
This is a creative writing forum, and in all honesty I think it's unnecessary to place this restriction down. The matter at hand should be focused on the benefits and objectives of the change, not the personal bias and uneasiness towards younger characters. I do not believe that roleplaying as a minor in a sexual situation is going to create any criminal pedophiles off this site, and if people enjoy a certain kink, then it's something for them to enjoy, and those opposed to avoid. If people want to get into 'moral/biological' issues, then incest, ageplay, mutilation, and a whole bunch of other kinks need to be addressed as well, and doing so would detract from the creative/enjoyment people can get from this forum. To be honest I think Father/Daughter or Mother/Son incest Rp's are a much bigger issue than a 13 year old girl, and 15 year old guy going at it as that's more reflective of the dreaded pedophilia being discussed.

I'll be happy to continue my stay here with the limit increased to 16. But any further and I'll probably look elsewhere for my adult Rping. Even with the 16 age limitation though, my biggest concern, and sincerest wish is that the overall attitude and atmosphere of the site remain unchanged. I come to BMR to enjoy myself (pun? xD) not to watch people shoving values at each other and witch hunting certain players.

Again, I agree. I don't think it's necessary, or even required. But ultimately, the decision is not up to me. I will abide by whichever decision is taken, and will continue to do my job in a proper manner. Still, again, the only 'real' issue for some people here is that they dislike it. I dislike plenty of fetishes on this site, and some honestly weird me the fuck out and come off as creepy even if they're not pedophilic (I used that word this time) in any way shape or form. Does that mean I want those gone? Not in the slightest.

Personally, I've engaged in certain stuff in RP that most people would consider to be gross, freaky, or even completely disturbing, and I don't doubt that if I went on to explain, quite a few heads would turn.

---

I want to reiterate that I am NOT completely against raising the bar to 16 (or even 15, as DA mentioned) but I don't think it's required or necessary. No matter what the final decision of our admins are, I will still be here, and I will still do my job. All I want is to make sure that this decision is taken with a fair and level-headed attitude, and not simply out of simple dislike. I want that decision to be something that'll actually legitimately have a good chance of helping the site.

In all things, I just want this site to remain a fair and good place to be on the internet. It's why I love this place, and I'd hate to see it go the way of certain other forums, I truly would. I don't want BM to change in such a way, I would be really sad about that. BM has already changed for the best over the course of the last few years, so hopefully we can keep going in that direction.

 

[Feral.Desires]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Frankly DA, I don't think you should lower the bar for a compromise. They'll argue "what's one more year" but really... They seem to be in the minority. This is YOUR site, it should be a non issue. If you want it 16? Make it 16! You have plenty of support! If they don't like it..? Tough fucking cookies, go somewhere else.

 

[Magic Breeze]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I'm glad this thread got so much attention, and so many people have come to raise good points. At least, whether the rule is changed or not, no one can say it was because no one on either side of the argument wasn't here to help in the decision. ^^

Feral, not to pick a fight, but...I just don't see how such comments contribute.
Many of us are here because we like the atmosphere of the site. The attitude of the staff, how helpful they are...You don't seem too concerned in driving people away, anyway, but...If DA was the sort of admin that handled things that way, I'm pretty sure that would drive tons of good members and players off the site, much more than a rule change. :/

Anyway. My concerns remain the same, along with some new ones, after reading a few points quite well made...

Like I've said, would this really help that much? I can be just being pessimistic, but won't there probably always be people trying to bypass the rule (of course, aside idiots who ignore it altogether). Some have said - won't we likely see people trying to use 13 to 15 year old characters, and will that really be so wrong, and what not...And that's also a good point, but I'm actually talking about people who will still just write "16 years old" and then use the same old tricks to have them be basically prepubescent. It's not that much of a stretch.
Again, could just be pessimism. If you find it would help, I'm all for putting off those who try it now, save the mods some work, etc. o.o

But...going back to what people using or trying to use 13 to 15 year olds if the rule changes.
If it does, as a few have already asked, what happens of the already ongoing roleplays? At first, I honestly thought "another matter for another time, doesn't matter that much at this point of the decision", though thinking more of it...Well, it seems unfair to shut down people with rule-abiding roleplays with such characters. Seems Vek isn't jumping on that solution, either, but...specifying who can and can't play 13-15 year olds would indeed, kind of complicate the rule. And strictly saying "no characters below 16", but allowing those roleplays to stay...well, what sort of message does it send to future members? Wouldn't it also end up complicated/confusing?

It remains my worry that many people pushing in favor are thinking only because of their own tastes and distastes. Vikingpanda, Aise, KarenNelson, Halaster...have all already brought it up, I'm not sure there's much to say. Just...well, if majority is the only thing taken into account, when most are voting to up the bar because of that, it doesn't seem that fair. As said before, why shouldn't everyone get to push to get rid of stuff that makes them uncomfortable, then?
Honestly, some stories involving torture, death, violent rape (heck, I like noncon myself, but some ways people like to depict it make me queasy), inprisonment...whether they involve fully grown adults or not, can be much more disturbing to me than anything with underage characters. And if we go by what's legal in the real world? They're all also terrible things to imagine happening to someone. Don't get me wrong - I'm not putting children at the same level as adults, definitely not saying it's not worse for a child to be abused, but tales of imprisonment, torture, brainwashing, enslavement...they get to me just as much. The thought of such things would just as easily keep me up at night. >.<
Yet as I pointed out in another post - my thought is that I'm an adult, no one will make me read anything I don't want, and I shouldn't judge what people get their rocks off of, when they're not hurting anyone.
Many seem to keep worrying we're catering to pedophilic fantasies - but aren't we also catering to murder fantasies, then? Torture fantasies? It would be just as horrific to think of a real person going through these things.
I digress, though, as that isn't the matter of the discussion. I add it only to try and make a point. Again, as said before, I'm not saying "allow everything!"...just trying to explain my argument to the logic of some who've posted here. ^^;

Lastly, on a small note...I've met plenty of people, over many sites, who were in no way interested in young characters - who demanded characters upwards 18 years old, even - yet who turned out to be very, very creepy. Just doesn't seem quite fair to pin or associate people with something just because of whatever they like to write. For breaking the rules? Sure. For creating a bad environment because of it? Yeah. Harassing someone to do what they're looking for? Of course. Those all deserve to be condemned. Er - I'll stop before I get controversial or something, though. x.x

To end this probably-way-too-big a post (sorry, I get carried away ._.) - my support for whatever the admins decide remains. I'm concerned whether this is really a great solution to the problem we'd really like fixed (people skirting the rules and basically playing with characters that aren't allowed), and that this decision ends up being made because many think playing even with the current age range is wrong/disgusting or such...But as I said, at least everyone's talking it over! And from what I've seen in my time here, DA and Vek seem perfectly reasonable people, so I don't believe they'll change anything here (or on any other site, if Vek calls to change on all in the server) without considering that...This thread wouldn't be here if that were so! So, my worry is limited. =p

 

[solitaryman]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

As for me, I do not engage in a role play plot involving such pairings, as daddy/daughter, teacher/student, or any pairing that would involve an underage character. For me 18 and older is the standard. That is about as simply put as I can make it, and done without having to use profanity, i.e the f-word, to make my point.

 

[KarenNelson]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

...
That being said, as a fair compromise, if people are strongly adverse to raising the bar to 16, I'd be all right with capping things at 15. But I wouldn't want to go lower and in all honesty I'd prefer things to be at 16. Though, to try and find compromise and such, I'd willing to see the bar raised to 15 if it made people happier--raising the age while keeping things at that age that gives off that feel of innocence, etc.
...

First off, I think you're a great admin. I don't think you're trying to suppress anyone's artistry or discriminate against a certain kink. You've come up with some very cogent reasons for proposing this change. Too many sites simply ram changes down users' throats, or open up faux RFDs that are little more than "let the customers vent, but our minds are made up; we don't really care what anyone says." You're actually engaging your userbase in constructive dialogue, and that's to be applauded.

I think compromising to a lower age limit of 15 is something you should seriously consider, for several reasons, to wit:

1. It shows that you take user feedback and creative freedom very seriously. The change would leave (most) high-school scenes in place.

2. It sends a clear message to the nitwits who try and smuggle in pre-pubescent characters: "We don't serve your kind here, your kids, they'll have to wait outside!" (Sorry, I can never resist a good Star Wars reference.) As others have pointed out, I doubt it will completely quell the problem, but it should put a dent in it. The change will make drawing that line in the sand easier for mods.

3. A strong and clear majority of users would be supportive of this change (at least judging from responses in this thread thus far). I'm not a proponent of blind majoritarianism, but taking into account the will of the people is certainly fair and wise. This will make enforcement of the rule much easier. True, it's your site, your rules...but going to 15 would be a decision that a) had majority support and b) showed you took minority objections into consideration before enacting the change. Key elements of good, effective consensus site governance.

4. Raising the age limit a couple of years would further demonstrate "due diligence" to anyone asking "what are you doing to stop people from RPing young kids?" You could point out that a core rule for the site was changed--despite some objections--in response to the problem.

My $0.02 worth...

 

[malin]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Here's my two scents on the age limit.

From what i can see the age limit change probably wouldn't change anything. As magic states there are always people who will try to skirt around rules, the admin's themselves have said they have seen everything under the sun to try and justify that, and really will that change with a new age limit? Probably not the excuses will become more outlandish but there will always be a few people who will try to justify somethings existence.

More then likely it would create more offenders, as the age increase cuts off 3-2 years more people would try and skirt around the new rule those who were happy playing 13-15 year olds for their own stories would probably try and find a way to continue those stories and those kinks. due to how lax the rules have been on this issue chances are stronger that changing the rule would cause an increase in activity against the rule, those who try to skirt an age limit would still try to skirt an age limit doesn't matter if its 16, 18 or 13.

With that said DA mentioned how she viewed 13-14 as being too young and innocent, and for many people on the site that's the appeal in those rp's. Take away that age limit your still going to have some characters playing incredibly gullible and innocent as the other takes that person and abuses their body and mind. I mean it's a kink a lot of people share on this site.

And as for playing with pedophilia 99% of every thread i have done on this site plays to rape, domination, abuse, force, Bestiality, and death. that doesn't mean I want to go out find someone and torture them to death in the way that I have on this site, and I can only imagine that goes the same for most of the people on this site though I wish it was all.

RP is RP and for me that means im willing to do anything so I tend to get requests for the darker side of rp. That darker side will resist and persist regardless of what the rules are, and i think that changing the age limit would bring about more bad then good.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Now, I'm pretty caustic of a person to deal with so I'll be pretty damn blunt as I don't care who I offend:

If you lose interest because the bar is raised to being 16, you have some personal issues you need to handle first. You are 18+ and are bummed because...oh no, it's 16 and not 13? And if it goes to 18, then what? You're going to completely deny your own reality because you happen to be 18+ yourself? That's a bit silly so I'll break it down further:

In actuality, being 13 is pretty damn hard and no, not every 13 year old girl wants to bone some boy who calls her pretty. And vice versa with boys. This is a writing site, not a sex orgy site where little kids get it on because people have some unfulfilled fantasies or what have you. Or find it hot to have that taboo of "Oh, snap, high school freshman/middle schooler is getting it on!" I don't see the reason behind it as it's not my thing. I can only see the taboo of it but that's about it right there.

Some people seem to forget that in these different eras of play [such as victorian and what else], people were of age as in, either 16 or older because they had to be mentally fit to marry. If we're gonna go down the mentality route, then you might wanna do a bit more research. And even in medieval times, children weren't married. They reached ages of 13 or older and were betrothed until they were of proper age to marry which was usually 18. Romeo and Juliet doesn't apply here as it was a shitty display of hormones.

16 is perfectly reasonably because it's actually plausible. Personal experience, all my friends had gotten laid by that age unlike myself. A lot of kids in high school around 16 were "doing it" and whatnot. Logically, it's the middle ground age and allows more room for taboo scenes than people think because "Waaaaah, they took my toy away!" is all they can think of.

For me, 13 has always been too young and from working this site/being on it, a lot of people break that rule far more than any other and it's DISGUSTING. If you haven't seen it/dealt with it, might wanna step back and see where the staff is coming from. We aren't being pressured to do this. We're sick of having to repeat the same shit because some people are goddamn stupid and only want what THEY want.

I know some of my kinks squick people, but age is something that must always be thought of above everything else.

 

[Candira]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I can see that people are upset because they don't think anything will change even if we put the new age limit into action. I'm inclined to agree with the reasoning that they provided: Someone's always going to be a dick and try to break the rules, and policing it is going to be just as bad for us then as it is now. Granted, there were other reasons brought up, but I'm too lazy to find all of them and I have a paper to write. So....

I understand why people who play to the current age limit play the way they do. I would just like people to understand that no matter what decision is reached, it's not just for the fact that people dislike your kink. Members who support the decision may think that way, but the people with the power who are actually considering the option do not. Rest assured that they do read what you have to say, and I know that DA and Vek will cut through any senseless bullshit like "OMG I HATE IT!" because it isn't constructive. A lot of people are worried about that, and it's a little disheartening to see that your faith in the admins who created such a great community is so lacking.

Ultimately, I don't really care if the age limit goes up or stays as it is. I get antsy from time to time because I feel that it's a bit low, but I don't go around rping that way and tend not to read those rps if I don't have to. I just focus on my sections and deal with what I find there. What you want to write about is your business and that's just fine with me. I'd be okay with upping the age limit, but I'm not gonna die or leave or do anything stupid because it didn't get raised. I'm okay with it staying the way it is, too.

It's really only about deterring certain behavior and drawing a certain crowd. Whether or not it will be effective in that regard isn't really my area of expertise, so I won't comment. Just please be aware that the people who make the final decision are smart and reasonable individuals. I'm not saying that your worries are unimportant or invalid: it's good that you bring up all of your concerns. It just bugs me that most people who've come up with this argument feel like the final decision might be made unfairly. Have a little faith in your admins, kay?

Also, it's a two to three year difference. Suck it up because it really doesn't change a great deal.

 

[Vekseid]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

To accentuate Hahvoc's point, puberty happening so early is actually a modern phenomenon.

 

[Halaster]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Now... Before I write any of this, I want clear up that this isn't personal, I'm merely defending my points, so don't take it as such.

Denying our own reality is all this site is about, isn't it? I'm over 18, but I should be free to RP as any age I desire (within site rules) be it 13, 16, 95, or even 5753. (All of which I have done, even the last one)

RPing is not about what is legal, plausible, realistic or not, and has never been. It's an escape, it's a thing that couldn't possibly exist in the real world. If it were to become a true 'real world' legal problem, and we were asked to stop doing it, then of course I'd be all for it. I want what's good for the site, and nothing else.

And that's why the focus of this particular issue was on the fact that some people try to circumvent this specific rule by saying ''They're 13'' when they're really older. It's about the fact that people are blatantly breaking a site established rule by playing pretend.

Changing the age to 16 will change that particular issue, sure. But then we'll have to deal with people who try to circumvent the 16 rule, and we'll basically be at the very same point. So in the end, whether it's changed or not... I believe is entirely up to a matter of certain people disliking it, and not as an improvement to the site itself. Regardless of it is changed or not, we'll still have to deal with the same people, and we'll still have to do the very same things.

And I don't understand why 'Age should always be thought of above everything else.' This is about making the site a better place, so all rules should be held on the same level and be enforced.

This is what I believe. And once again, if you guys decide that's what is best for the site, then go ahead... But I want to see it done because there's a definite chance that it'll improve our situation, and not merely because of what people think of it from their own personal point of view. (ie: It's gross, it's disgusting, those people are pedophiles, etc.)

This is, and should always have been, about helping the site continue along it's course into becoming a greater, better place.

 

[Cassandraks]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

For me perhaps it is dislike of it maybe, but the fact that once I decided to join and found out the age limit was 13 nearly made me leave the site right away, I am glad I didn't because I have found decent writers who will play older characters with me. But it is uncomfortable knowing I am attached to a site that allows that age. If something happens in the future to change and that the government works against something like this, who knows what can happen to just the people writing over the age stuff because they were associated with a site at the lower age of 13 for characters. It is and will always be an issue, because it is a big issue in the real world. Plain and simple, that is why it is such an issue here now.

But the main thing I am seeing in the arguements is that it is my writing and I can do as I want. 13, 16, 18 no matter what the age. You are right it is all writing and why does the age become such a big deal? I use age just to show where they are in their lives, I have had characters who are so completely innocent to the world and sex and they are 23. It is how your character is, and not the specific age to them. What is their personallity, and 16 is still a couple years in High School so that arguement doesn't sit well with me. You can still play the same character at 16 that you could at 13. This is a creative site to write, be creative try out new things. If you want to play some sweet innocent character, then do it with the age limit provided it isn't that hard to do. And from what I have seen people exadurate a lot of other stuff, so why can this not be it either.

This is just my opinion, I will not leave the site if it isn't changed but I think it might possibly hinder some good writers because they don't want to be assiocated with that age if they play everything over 18. I like the site because it isn't restrictive to most things, but some things need to be. As I stated before, there is a lot of stuff here which I am not crazy about but to each their own on it. But age, is a really tricky grey area where it is most times better to be safe then sorry.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Now... Before I write any of this, I want clear up that this isn't personal, I'm merely defending my points, so don't take it as such.

Denying our own reality is all this site is about, isn't it? I'm over 18, but I should be free to RP as any age I desire (within site rules) be it 13, 16, 95, or even 5753. (All of which I have done, even the last one)

RPing is not about what is legal, plausible, realistic or not, and has never been. It's an escape, it's a thing that couldn't possibly exist in the real world. If it were to become a true 'real world' legal problem, and we were asked to stop doing it, then of course I'd be all for it. I want what's good for the site, and nothing else.

And that's why the focus of this particular issue was on the fact that some people try to circumvent this specific rule by saying ''They're 13'' when they're really older. It's about the fact that people are blatantly breaking a site established rule by playing pretend.

Changing the age to 16 will change that particular issue, sure. But then we'll have to deal with people who try to circumvent the 16 rule, and we'll basically be at the very same point. So in the end, whether it's changed or not... I believe is entirely up to a matter of certain people disliking it, and not as an improvement to the site itself. Regardless of it is changed or not, we'll still have to deal with the same people, and we'll still have to do the very same things.

And I don't understand why 'Age should always be thought of above everything else.' This is about making the site a better place, so all rules should be held on the same level and be enforced.

This is what I believe. And once again, if you guys decide that's what is best for the site, then go ahead... But I want to see it done because there's a definite chance that it'll improve our situation, and not merely because of what people think of it from their own personal point of view. (ie: It's gross, it's disgusting, those people are pedophiles, etc.)

This is, and should always have been, about helping the site continue along it's course into becoming a greater, better place.

You could of just quoted me, it would have been easier. ;D

And I don't understand why 'Age should always be thought of above everything else.' This is about making the site a better place, so all rules should be held on the same level and be enforced.

You proved my point by stating that. You don't understand yet say what I've basically been trying to say. Changing the age higher would make this site a better place because we wouldn't have to deal overly much with people who don't want to follow the rules. There would be a better way of policing the age limit because there is a huge difference [usually] between what a 16 and 13 year old look like. There would be less room to contest "What doesn't breach the age limit."

 

[KarenNelson]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

This is just my opinion, I will not leave the site if it isn't changed but I think it might possibly hinder some good writers because they don't want to be assiocated with that age if they play everything over 18. I like the site because it isn't restrictive to most things, but some things need to be. As I stated before, there is a lot of stuff here which I am not crazy about but to each their own on it. But age, is a really tricky grey area where it is most times better to be safe then sorry.

True. I don't envy the admins here. There's no way they can please everyone. There are some who want to play even younger than 13, and some who think the very notion of anyone under 18 so much as stroking themselves on a restless summer night is a mortal sin. No way to please everyone, which is why I think the 15 compromise is the best idea.

 

[Halaster]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

You proved my point by stating that. You don't understand yet say what I've basically been trying to say. Changing the age higher would make this site a better place because we wouldn't have to deal overly much with people who don't want to follow the rules. There would be a better way of policing the age limit because there is a huge difference [usually] between what a 16 and 13 year old look like. There would be less room to contest "What doesn't breach the age limit."

What about what a 16 and 15 year old look like then? Or 14?

Or currently, what a 13 and 12 year old look like? I honestly can't see the difference in either case. Especially in the case of anime pictures, which tends to be brought up the most as forms of character depiction. Someone in this thread also mentioned that those kind of pictures ALWAYS look younger than they actually are, which once again, makes it pretty impossible to tell.

We've been at the point where it's awkward and difficult to tell how things truly are, and I don't think changing to another mandatory number will change any of that. We'll still be fiddling around trying to figure out just 'what age' certain characters are. Be it in threads, avatars, signatures, or whatever.

The only thing that'll change is that people who 'skirt the rules' with 'possibly' being under 16 won't quite bother us as much. Which is something that Veks has brought up earlier.

 

[Cassandraks]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

This is just my opinion, I will not leave the site if it isn't changed but I think it might possibly hinder some good writers because they don't want to be assiocated with that age if they play everything over 18. I like the site because it isn't restrictive to most things, but some things need to be. As I stated before, there is a lot of stuff here which I am not crazy about but to each their own on it. But age, is a really tricky grey area where it is most times better to be safe then sorry.

True. I don't envy the admins here. There's no way they can please everyone. There are some who want to play even younger than 13, and some who think the very notion of anyone under 18 so much as stroking themselves on a restless summer night is a mortal sin. No way to please everyone, which is why I think the 15 compromise is the best idea.

The thing is it is one year, I was a teen once and there isn't much differnce between 15 and 16 though 16 is a lot more accepted.

 

[malin]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Changing the age higher would make this site a better place because we wouldn't have to deal overly much with people who don't want to follow the rules. There would be a better way of policing the age limit because there is a huge difference [usually] between what a 16 and 13 year old look like. There would be less room to contest "What doesn't breach the age limit."

Actually with all regard to rules it would probably remain exactly the same, people who want to skirt an age limit will skirt an age limit, and you will always have the minority of people who will try to be creepy. All in all the site's community won't change their won't be a mass exodus of people, and even with the new rule in place you will just have more people trying to vent it since before they were well within the rules.

As for the actual policing of those rules, you will always have the vocal minority, getting rid of 13 year olds in a thread does little to change that, and people will always try to get their kinks in. It will more then likely create more work for the staff and that's fine if they can keep up, but the adjustment period on a site like this could be very long, and your bound to have that vocal minority get more vocal.

If anything there is still a lot of room as I only use anime pics, and those can be near impossible to judge age with. So for a lot of people the "well they have to look 16 rule." won't make much difference, i mean haruhi from host club was 18 but had midget disorder. just saying :/

 

[Cassandraks]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

The thing is discussing, moaning and groaning about all of this we have to becareful. Everyone has an opinion, if on for or against. This is a topic everyone is passionate about, I was just discussing it with a friend of mine from here which we are on either side of the issue.

Please everyone becareful talking to each other, don't ruin friendships over your opinions on this. Whatever happens it is for the better of the site, no matter why the decision is made. Let's all remember we are friend here, no matter our opinion. The people who will make the decisions are the Mods, and we have our trust in them for this.

 

[Halaster]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

The thing is discussing, moaning and groaning about all of this we have to becareful. Everyone has an opinion, if on for or against. This is a topic everyone is passionate about, I was just discussing it with a friend of mine from here which we are on either side of the issue.

Please everyone becareful talking to each other, don't ruin friendships over your opinions on this. Whatever happens it is for the better of the site, no matter why the decision is made. Let's all remember we are friend here, no matter our opinion. The people who will make the decisions are the Mods, and we have our trust in them for this.

I agree with that, which is why I'm trying not to get too personally involved. I'm keeping a level-headed and whatever happens, will happen.

As far as this topic goes, good points have been introduced by both sides... And I don't really think there is anything left to be said. In the end, all that matters is the well being of the site, you're 100% right in that.