RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!
I suppose it's time for me to add something else to this. Aise pointed out quite a few good points, and it's honestly refreshing to see someone who can argue about this in such an intelligent way. My arguing skills aren't 'quite' that up to par, so I'll just say what I can.
-Policing the Rule-
Personally I'm not too fond of the idea, but have to admit I've always seen the 13 limit as a bit gracious. I mean other sites I go to only allow 18 and they're absolutely nazi about it. While I'm all for a member-friendly community, I really don't want to see BM degrade itself to the point where staff members are breathing down everyone's necks posting "Please clarify the age of your characters." Half the time characters aren't even intended to be underage, and it just looks bad on the community. Policing is important, but things need to be done in moderation.
As far as the BM moderation team goes, generally, this is done in good taste and with a level-headed attitude. I say generally because... Well, I'll admit there are times where I was dubious of a decision being taken, and even times where I felt that things were being hunted down rather viciously, or vicariously. Like trying to prove that something was loli/shota when it was really just a certain style, or something that while potentially underage, was completely harmless. I won't point out any other instances, as I respect every other members of the staff, and I assure you that all of them are very competent and well intentioned when dealing with this kind of thing... But it can be difficult sometimes. Difficult to see what is what and which is which.
This is a concern that I'm actually worried about, as I enjoy the atmosphere on this site much more than others for the simple sake that it is 'lenient' in some aspects. Raising the bar just means more limitations, more carefulness, and more policing as a result. I'm not saying that this couldn't be done while still keeping the same attitude/relaxed feel of the site... But still, it worries me a little, I'll admit.
-Raising the age to 18, 21-
To be honest, I'm not completely against raising it to 16, but any higher would probably impact my interest here on BMR. And I doubt I'd be the only one. As stated prior, I'm on a few other sites that have a 18+ character rule, and frankly that cuts out the highschool years completely. A period/setting I'm rather fond of Rping. This might be a bit too personal, but my first sexual experience was during my highschool years, and I'm sure that applies to a fair few others as well. (Certainly wasn't 13, but later year highschool).
Furthermore, having 18+ Brother/Sister Rp's detracts from the appeal there as well. I moved out of home when I was 18, and while I've never had a brother. The idea of 'sibiling sexual taboo' isn't as strong after the 18 bar. Other things would be affected too, but seeing as the suggestion at present is 16, I'll leave it at that.
This is one I fully agree with, when I originally joined this site, I did it because of how lenient about that specific rule this place was. I googled other 'Adult roleplaying' forums, and saw a few who shall remained unnamed where the mods were... Well... Nazis, elitists, and generally mean spirited when dealing with their members. Some were particularly bad about it, and just seeing the staff made me want to stay away from those places.
A LOT of our RPs involve highschool and brother/sister RPs. In actuality, if I was to say that a good majority of our RP take place in either of those two settings, it probably wouldn't be too far away from the truth, and anyone who has taken any amount of time to browse the request forums over the past few months will definitely agree with me. Raising the bar to 16 would and could definitely affect that, as some of the 'taboo' aspect's feel is definitely lost the further you go up. 16 will still do it for some people, but it might for others. The highschool setting will be difficult to play at best, as I believe that in most instances, 16 is the age of graduation for that, correct me if I'm wrong... So that means that people could only RP such a setting with 'final years' characters in the same setting, which limits it quite a bit... And then there comes the issue of policing that. And huh... Yeah, I'm drifting off, so I'm going to move on.
-Focus and Objective-
As stated countless times, it's up to the administration team of BMR to decide, but I'd like to point out that it's important to keep focused on the issue, and the problem you're aiming to solve. I've read through the posts thus far, and I can completely understand why some people have misinterpreted the objective of this rule as an 'attack' on a certain kink.
I won't say people's opinions are invalid, (since they are important) but a lot of support seems at the moment seems to be
"I don't like it, up the bar."
That's like me saying, "I don't like Futa's, they should be banned" or "incest/ageplay is gross and shouldn't be allowed"
I understand that this isn't the reasons behind why the staff brought it up. But too many people have expressed support based on a simple dislike for the kink. Scat disgusts a lot of us, that doesn't mean it should be banned as a whole.
I didn't fail to see that either. Now, I understand that the general idea people will immediately jump on as far as this thing goes is that it's 'you know what' related. But one simple fact remains: Everyone on this site is 18 and consenting, and if they aren't, then we need to get rid of those people. (And we do so quite often in fact.)
If we're going to raise the bar it should definitely NOT be because of simple dislike, but rather for something that would improve the site as a whole. Rules are made based on what is best for a community, not based on what certain might dislike. I know that DA and Veks certainly didn't want to get rid of the rule based on 'simple dislike', that much is quite clear... But certain people have voiced their opposition in a manner that is basically 'I hate it, get rid of it.' which fails to bring any constructive points to a thread that should be all about constructive arguing and bringing forth good and bad sides of doing so.
-Overall-
If there's strong evidence that upping the minimum character age to 16 will improve player behavior, and weed out less desirable players, then I'm willing to support the change. My biggest personal concern with this rule change is that I like using visuals, anime visuals at that for Rping, and as most are aware, they tend to look a bit younger than the creator officially announces. My biggest concern regarding this change therefore is the attitude change from staff. BMR is currently my favorite adult RP site due to it's friendly community.
I was intending to not contrast, but I'll just outright say it. Eros's minimum age used to be 16, and that worked pretty well. (Support for the change) however, the moment the age limitation was upped to 18, the community started getting a bit unpleasant for me. I'm not bitter about it seeing as I was never banned, or even warned. But after a few weeks I just stopped checking the site, and after just checking in on it now, I can see it's changed very little from the time I left.
I'm going to go on a limb and say that nothing will change. Sure it'll probably weed out 'some' of those who were trying to loophole the rules and play as things under 13, or characters who looked under 13 and were simply mentioned as being 13... But then, we'll get the same result with 16. People will try to loophole around that as well, and we'll suddenly be faced with trying to determine if a character is 16 or not, and some people will say 'this character is 16' when it'll be more in the age range of 13-15... Which used to be legitimate on this site, so would those people really be doing anything wrong? When the intent of upping said bar was to get rid of creepers? Would 'I' be considered a creeper since I did such RPs and the limit has changed? A creeper from the past, like some twisted time travel movie?
I don't think so. The fact remains that even by raising a bar, or by adding another number, the issue will still be there, just with a different number. We'll deal with the same issues, and the same kind of people, just in a generally different subsetting. As such, it is and has always been 'our' (the mods and admins) duty to deal with those people, and I believe that we've all been doing a good job of it... And will continue to do so regardless of a rule change or not. This is our job, and we do it well, and I can't speak for the others... But I personally like doing it, I enjoy helping this site, and I want to keep doing so for as long as I can.
-Final Word-
This is a creative writing forum, and in all honesty I think it's unnecessary to place this restriction down. The matter at hand should be focused on the benefits and objectives of the change, not the personal bias and uneasiness towards younger characters. I do not believe that roleplaying as a minor in a sexual situation is going to create any criminal pedophiles off this site, and if people enjoy a certain kink, then it's something for them to enjoy, and those opposed to avoid. If people want to get into 'moral/biological' issues, then incest, ageplay, mutilation, and a whole bunch of other kinks need to be addressed as well, and doing so would detract from the creative/enjoyment people can get from this forum. To be honest I think Father/Daughter or Mother/Son incest Rp's are a much bigger issue than a 13 year old girl, and 15 year old guy going at it as that's more reflective of the dreaded pedophilia being discussed.
I'll be happy to continue my stay here with the limit increased to 16. But any further and I'll probably look elsewhere for my adult Rping. Even with the 16 age limitation though, my biggest concern, and sincerest wish is that the overall attitude and atmosphere of the site remain unchanged. I come to BMR to enjoy myself (pun? xD) not to watch people shoving values at each other and witch hunting certain players.
Again, I agree. I don't think it's necessary, or even required. But ultimately, the decision is not up to me. I will abide by whichever decision is taken, and will continue to do my job in a proper manner. Still, again, the only 'real' issue for some people here is that they dislike it. I dislike plenty of fetishes on this site, and some honestly weird me the fuck out and come off as creepy even if they're not pedophilic (I used that word this time) in any way shape or form. Does that mean I want those gone? Not in the slightest.
Personally, I've engaged in certain stuff in RP that most people would consider to be gross, freaky, or even completely disturbing, and I don't doubt that if I went on to explain, quite a few heads would turn.
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I want to reiterate that I am NOT completely against raising the bar to 16 (or even 15, as DA mentioned) but I don't think it's required or necessary. No matter what the final decision of our admins are, I will still be here, and I will still do my job. All I want is to make sure that this decision is taken with a fair and level-headed attitude, and not simply out of simple dislike. I want that decision to be something that'll actually legitimately have a good chance of helping the site.
In all things, I just want this site to remain a fair and good place to be on the internet. It's why I love this place, and I'd hate to see it go the way of certain other forums, I truly would. I don't want BM to change in such a way, I would be really sad about that. BM has already changed for the best over the course of the last few years, so hopefully we can keep going in that direction.
As others have pointed out, I doubt it will completely quell the problem, but it should put a dent in it. The change will make drawing that line in the sand easier for mods.
