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Abortion: does the man have a say?

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Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
gelidAtelier said:
The man has no real say.
The woman has a say, because it is her body.
She is under no obligation to be an incubator for anything.
I also do not think the man has any kind of ownership over the fetus that might entitle him to its continued existence, at least not until it is born.

Really, I'd be suspicious about a guy's motivations in wanting a fetus to be born when it has no qualities whatsoever. It probably has more to do with wanting to keep a shackle on the woman through the kid than actually wanting a child.
But that same mentality puts not only the baby's life, but the man's life on her word alone. If you had a one night stand with a guy, he's nice, he's pretty decent looking, but he doesn't have a good job, he's not wealthy. your word would shackle him to a lifetime of child payments, alimony and fatherhood, even if he's hopelessly unprepared.

and honestly "so he can keep shackles on the woman"... have you ever actually been in a relationship? honestly? the only one with shackles are the abusive ones, which account for barely 1% of relationships in the west. honestly have you ever been in a relationship where you've been enslaved by your partner? I've been in many relationships, and so have my friends, they have always been mutual relationships.

I think you should learn how relationships work by actually being in one, without the Tumblr SJW influence.
 

Hahvoc The Decepticon

Singularity
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Are people forgetting that there are rational and sane people out there who aren't out to ruin lives?

Just a thought: If you don't want to knock a woman up, make sure you use plenty of protection.

Second thought: BEFORE ENGAGING IN SEX WITH SOMEONE YOU MAY NOT KNOW WELL/HAVEN'T KNOWN FOR LONG - Ask them if they are considering the possibility of children. ASK. BECAUSE ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. BE PREPARED.

If you both say, "No." Then have the safest sex possible and go buy Plan B as an extra precaution.
If you both say, "Yes but not anytime soon." previous statement applies.
If you aren't in agreement - DO NOT HAVE SEX. Especially if only one of you agrees with abortion - whether it's the man or the woman.

People keep making up the whole, "Don't have sex!" "Keep your legs closed!" "Keep it in your pants!" arguments for ages. People WILL have sex. They will.

The thing that needs to change is the amount of responsibility beforehand - NOT JUST AFTER.

If you can't even be responsible before, then how can you be afterwards?

I still firmly believe it is the woman's choice because men DO have the ability to walk away. I've seen it a hundred times. I've seen people in relationships for years, then she gets pregnant, and he bails.

I also know there are women who have left their husbands/partners/SO after they've had children. So it's on both sides.

HOWEVER - We are talking about abortion here. Not alimony. Not child support. No, "She's trying to trap him/He's trying to shackle her" bullshit.

If a guy wants a kid THAT badly that he opposes the woman he slept with with getting an abortion but she does not want it and has made that clear, then he has every option to either adopt or find a woman who wants to have children with him. There is also the third option, which has happened: She carries the baby to term and gives it up to him and removes all of her parental rights. It is not common, but it does happen.

If a woman wants the fetus/potential human and the man doesn't want any part of it, then yes, both parties should agree that he has no rights. People who have one night stands don't usually ask for child support. Usually, they just try to reach out and see where to go from there. People who ask for child support HAVE BEEN DATING/MARRIED 7/10 times. [Unfortunately, I know a few people in the former case of 'We had a one night stand, I know YOU can't/don't remember, but I think this is your kid so COURT ORDER.]

Thing is, people need to talk more about their future plans before they engage in sexual activities because of crap like this where neither are prepared or neither can agree. Some people step up and have an amazing relationship with their child's parent and their child or they don't.

Point is, it is the woman's choice to have an abortion or not and it is the man's choice to decide where he wants to be/doesn't want to be and make that choice be known instead of not saying a word or just running away from it or trying to make the choice for her.

Before anyone else brings this up: If you both want the kid but she doesn't want you around, then you seriously need to have a talk and figure out why that is and work it out. If you cannot work it out, then yes, the court system should be involved - especially if you want to be around for the potential child.


That was a long one. Anyways, just some food for thought.
 

vixx3n

Dust
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
If you know you have completely opposing abortion opinions, don't sleep with each other. You're asking for issues if protection fails. If you're both in agreement about what to do if an accidental pregnancy occurs, be safe as best as you can.

But I seriously don't believe anyone should be forced in to parenthood. Women can abort, men can walk away. Single parents exist everywhere. If you don't want to be one, don't sleep with someone who doesn't see eye to eye with you on having kids.

If the woman doesn't want it, she has options - she can abort it, she can adopt it or, as previously mentioned, forfeit parental rights and give it to the father. If the father doesn't want it, he shouldn't be any more obligated to deal with it than the mother would be if she didn't want it.
 

Kenkay

Planetoid
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Annika said:
I'm pro-choice but I do take contraception seriously, so I've never had a pregnancy scare or anything like that. I think it can be complicated when it comes to 'letting a man have his say' because when contraception fails a lot of men will get suspicious about it and feel trapped or taken advantage of. I can say categorically that I am not going to have children and I have always made this clear very early on in relationships. By the same token, I think guys who really don't want kids should be up front about it, rather than shelve the discussion until the woman gets broody or an unplanned pregnancy occurs.

The problem I have with a man having input on whether a woman carries a child is that even if he says he wants to be a father and take responsibility for that child, he can get cold feet at any time and change his mind about joint/full custody or more than the legal minimum of financial support. Even within a relationship, guys don't always adapt to fatherhood and the fact is that they can jump ship and opt out of the whole business at any stage in that child's life. The mother on the other hand, cannot and will not do this because of the close bond forged during pregnancy, even if she didn't want kids herself or isn't particularly maternal.

If a man wanted a woman to refrain from having an abortion purely because he wants that child and to accept full legal/financial responsibility for it, he should perhaps be required to draw up some legally binding document outlining this and absolving the mother from having to help financially support a child that she didn't want to have in the first place. Now I do know that there are plenty of women who will seek child support from men who didn't want to become fathers but since no man should ever have the power to force a woman to terminate, this is a moot issue really. It takes 2 people to have sex and it takes 2 people to fail at contraception. Plus, there are plenty of men who are cavalier about contraception and who fully deserve to be made to pay for their irresponsibility by supporting their child financially.

I think that in most cases, if a woman really wants to terminate a man should try to accept that. To influence a woman into having an unwanted child would cause potentially irrevocable relationship issues and for a child to grow up knowing that the mother didn't want to bear it would be potentially deeply scarring. I know people have religious reasons for not condoning abortion but if the woman makes the decision to end that life, then surely the 'sin' is hers. I just can't see that compounding that sin by coercing her into bearing a child she didn't want to have is much of a solution.
How about the other side of the coin? What happens if a man said all along he never wants kids and then that woman ends up pregnant. She wants the kid but he wants her to have an abortion. In our current society he then becomes a slave to her financially. We say that, we'll didn't want a kid shouldn't have screwed her.

No I'm not saying that a man should be able to force or stop an abortion. But this is one subject where things must be straight across the board.
 

lil angel

Super-Earth
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
I think women should have the lone right to decide whether or not they want to abort or keep a child. It's their body that gets affected by that. It sucks for the man, because mentally, it's still a terrible feeling to see it happen the way you don't want it to, in either situation, I imagine. However, I do think that men should not be forced to care for a child they did not consent to have. If a woman goes against his wish of aborting the child, then she should be responsible for raising it as well.
 

InkedUp

Planetoid
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
While the women have the main right to their say as this is something that they cannot walk out of, I feel like (provided the situation is between open and willing partners and is not messed up beyond all fuck) the man's opinion can be taken into consideration. However, the woman is risking her health and her livelihood if she even tries to carry the child to term. Forcing someone to carry a child, given the bodily risks that they face alone, could be considered somewhere along the lines of domestic abuse when you really think about it, especially if the woman in question has a history of pregnancy problems or family members with pregnancy problems that could develop.

There is, of course, a way to sign away parental rights so if, in this situation, it's just the baby that presents a problem and not the pregnancy itself (which, let's be real, might be part of the problem because of how many health issues there are out there that can come up regarding this), then either parent could basically sign a waiver saying: "I give up ALL of my biological parental rights to this child and forfeit them to their mother/father." This actually can be done from both sides of the coin, so the mother or father could waive all parental rights. Again, this assumes that the pregnancy alone is not the issue... And there's a small issue of what to do if these contracts are not honored even after being drawn up (admittedly, this is a greater concern if the father agrees to take the child, signs waivers, and backs out at the last minute since that's easier to do on his side of the coin). Still, however, it is as thing you can do and a mother stuck with that child could still essentially put the child up for adoption.

Ultimately, though, this is something people should be talking about if they're in relationships with other people. It's a hard and fast issue and it should be one of those that most adults are aware of their stance. If you, as an adult, are ready and want kids, be prepared to look for/date/marry people who are ready and want kids. If someone is not ready and does not want kids (or just is not ready or just doesn't want kids) pops up on your radar, it is your responsibility to take charge and say, "You're cute and all, but this is a major issue we can't reconcile, so this can't happen." Sex is gonna happen, sure, but it's part of the responsibility of each and every pair of adults who can have kids to understand that they need to see eye to eye on this subject. There are tons of people in the world, so making that a point of contention with any relationship (regardless of where you stand) is just a way to make sure that you as an adult are pursuing the life you want.

I'm not saying "don't have sex" with that comment either. I'm saying "whether they want kids or not should be in your requirements for whether you have sex with that person specifically." Of course, this doesn't branch into rape cases and, of course, becomes very complicated when in concerns to one night stands, but at least having this being a more commonly accepted approach might help immensely.
 

bad girl

Super-Earth
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Location
USA - TENNESSEE
As a woman I support abortion. In fact, in America I do not see the founding fathers ever placed a word for or against it. Therefore, with a planet that is overpopulated and over heating. For the betterment of the planet: a woman does not have the right to have children. I am thinking we can get the birthrate down. An average woman needs to have 2.1 children to keep the population stable, we should look at a goal of 0.5. True, we will have a population that gets older. Therefore, the maximum age for an America will be 70 years old.

Humans are livestock, treat them so.
 

Mr Quixotic

The Lowest Form Of Wit
Supporter
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Location
Australia
It's not like the laws, and the requirement to provide child support, are unknown consequences of fathering a child, or that sex can lead to pregnancy, even if unwanted/unplanned, so in my opinion, the man (and woman) have agreed to bear those consequences, including that whether to keep the child or not will be her decision, if it should happen, by virtue of going ahead.

You might not like the law, or see it as 'unfair', but i think it's a touch pathetic to make a decision, being aware of the possible ramifications in advance, only to then whine, bitch, attempt to shift the onus for personal responsibility and avoid your legal obligations, after the fact, as much as I think it is of any parent not wanting to provide for their own child. Whilst I believe he should be able to express his views, it's her body, and the ultimate choice should be the woman's.
 

November

Super-Earth
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Ron Roberts said:
The part I find to be totally contradictory is the financial part. The woman decides if he is going to have to pay child support or not. He has no say at all.
Remove the woman from the equation. It's about the rights of the fuckin KID, who has even less say than the guy that wanted to get his rocks off. Is he supposed to be homeless because Joe 6-Pack doesn't want to cover for him?

sorry bro, daddy warned mommy that you were an unacceptable financial liabilty. these xboxes don't buy themselves...
 
B

Broomhandle45

Guest
Alright, this isn't really adding anything new, so I'm closing this.
 
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