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Rape Culture

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These arguments could be compared to the less harsh "friend-zoning" issue.

People are connecting with someone of the opposite gender (or w/e gender they're attracted to). They're getting close, maybe even a little affectionate to some degree. They're so compatible in the person's eyes. But then... it turns out their friend just doesn't feel that way. I do see guys more often than not getting pissed over this, but I have seen girls do this and when they do... it's pretty bad.

No one owes anyone anything. Especially when it comes to romance or sex.
 
It's a little hard to not get defensive when you're blatantly being accused of things you're not doing (both related to this topic and on this thread). It doesn't help to get told you're hurting someone's feelings indirectly in what should be an open discussion and get messages from someone trying to silence you for your opinion. Frankly, after trying to be so amicable and coming on to see this behavior afterward, I'm really holding my tongue to not say a lot of very mean things.

Either way, those views of attention and harmless flirting seem a little misplaced to me. I don't know of any men that would flirt with a woman they weren't interested in. I can't imagine a woman doing different. Obviously a wink isn't a sign of "fuck me", but it's terribly grey. As a man, you're told that if you don't pursue, you won't get the girl. You're expected to make the first move. You're expected to take charge. Pursue the wrong woman and hopefully you only end up with a rejection. Don't make the first move and you get viewed as an awkward loser (to put it nicely). It's not common for someone to say a woman was leading him on.

It reminds me of getting into a fight with a woman. You hit her back, you're a sick sadistic bastard. You don't hit her, you're a pussy that got beat up by a girl. It's a nasty balance and every road leads you to being the bad guy if the woman wants it.
 
If you wanna say mean things, take it to PM. Otherwise, act like an adult. You aren't being accused of anything as far as I'm concerned and have seen. You aren't being blamed for things.

We aren't in such a stark society like that or maybe I've just been around people who don't act so callous about these kinds of things. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you've been thrown around and am tossing the blame-game around. Again, only what I've been perceiving.

I've winked at friends, doesn't mean I want them in my pants or even kissing me. It's meant to be cute and occasionally silly. Some men do see it as a come-hither look but again, everyone is different. Harmless flirting comes from liking someone as a friend enough to banter with them in that fashion and this also comes about from people being in relationships. I flirt like no one's business, but it doesn't mean I'm doing it so I can lead people on. It's for fun and I let people know it's just that: flirting. It's not a come-on or a "lets go fuck later" incentive. If they perceive it wrong, I tell them straight pretty damn fast. Not everyone is like that. People have boundaries and there are limits, just depends on if people are going to notice them and follow them.

Ms_Muffintops said:
These arguments could be compared to the less harsh "friend-zoning" issue.

No one owes anyone anything. Especially when it comes to romance or sex.

Agreed.

I also don't wink at strangers cause I find that really creepy. I also don't like it when they wink at me. Just gives me the heeby-jeebies.
 
Telling me to act like an adult and you're making such asinine comments? That is just like you. Perhaps it's time to take some responsibility for your own comments for once. You're so busy giving a "just saying" attitude about your offensive nature, writing off your own rude comments as a gentle nudge in the right direction. You can't just say "maybe I don't notice, or maybe you've got issues" and toss it off. It's offensive as shit! We're here to discuss a topic, not put you on a podium to abuse others.
 
FM just saying you have accomplished one the most dangerous things there is on this site and that's pissing DA off. Were I in your shoes I'd shut up now. Angry staff is generally bad. Angry DA is tantamount to calling down Armegeddon around here. She's a great friend to have but has no mercy for idiots who bring her wrath down on themselves.
 
There are things that should be in here, there are things that should be left to PM, and there are things that should not be in or on either.

Also. NO ONE IS BEING PUT ON A PODIUM, rather some very thinly personal attacks are as transparent as rice paper.

Yes, I know I will get a warning, but sometimes things need to be simply called what they are.

I stand by everything I have said, and I don't hide it. I have been on both sides of the argument, and even was the victim of false accusations. I know full well that there are those out there who abuse the system, but rape is real, and we do have, if not a "culture", a very prolific "Rape Subculture" in the First World and its fringes. I am not kissing anyone's ass, nor putting anyone on a pedestal, I am telling the simple truth.

Now, it may seem I am taking it personally, but then as I have my best friend, rp partners I respect, and a woman and female relatives that I love deeply, as a real man I am. If I am taking it personally to some, then so be it. But then, IMVHO, someone on here needs to man up and be willing to be "himself".
 
I've skimmed over this thread, and I just wanna throw in my two cents.

I think the important thing to look at in rape culture is the fact that we have a culture that allows rape to happen as often as it does. The way rape is brushed off, in a sense. An example: It's rape culture when someone goes out of their way to cover up child abuse because of the position the person doing the abuse is. Because, apparently, a sports legacy is more important than a victim. A culture's priorities say a lot about it.

Women are taught to "just go along with things" in a way and not to rock the boat. When a lot of people imagine a terrifying situation like that, they say things like "oh, but I'd fight back." Not many people do--and there's nothing wrong with that. If there's one thing we're terrible at, it's predicting our own behavior.

Something I always like to point out is that a victim is no more likely to falsely report a rape than any other crime. It's just that when someone is falsely accused of rape, it gets so blown out of proportion.

I have a lot of very complicated feelings about this subject. So that's all I'm gonna say for now.
 
Not trying to sound rude, but could you please refrain from getting too in detail about your incident? It's a horrible thing that I'm sure some don't want to envision in their heads, myself included. Hearing, or well, I guess reading stuff like "anus was being violated" just somehow doesn't sit well with me.
 
While I do agree with you, havemecrystaleyezd, and I am only addressing what you have said, not any kind of attack. But most of the times a false accusation is "blown out of proportion", as you said (again, being as sensitive as I can be at this time), that is usually when the accuser (such as the man who accused Kevin Clash recently) attempts get something else other than "justice" out of the accusation. I KNOW that most rapes go unreported out of fear of not being believed, just for starters... but when things like the Tawana Brawley Hoax happen, there is no stopping the explosion.

I know women who have been raped, so this is beyond a sensitive subject for me, as I have said. But I also know guys, such as myself, who were falsely accused. One of the reasons we most likely will NEVER have a "National Law" is the hard core fact that, I am sorry... there are women and men out there who do it to get revenge, or who are out there to get out of trouble (which was what Brawley most likely was doing), and in the cases of females and males of certain ages.. family members do the accusations and the young woman or young man is pressured into saying it was rape).. among others.

Again, I know women and men who have had this horrible violation of trust done to them, so I say again it is real. Rape happens, but so does false statements and out and out framing of people too. That is, unfortunately, the other downside to the Rape Culture/Subculture we have.
 
As a victim of rape and having family members in jail now thanks to false accusations honestly I hate false accusations.

I had this happen at my school one semester (I attended an alternative school towards the end of my tenure as a highschool student) there was a substitute in one of the classes and one of the middle schoolers that they'd let attend as an experiment developed a crush on this teacher. She stole his phone and put her number into it and even got his number and began texting him very sexual things. When he turned her down because obviously she was severly underage she got ticked off and told her parents that he'd drug her into the bathroom and raped her. The truth only got out because she was recorded bragging to her friends about paying this teacher back.
 
Ruphhausin, you bring up an interesting dichotomy, and the basis for the lack of a “National Law” for rape. From the legal end, the laws of the various states are quickly evolving over the definition of rape. Thank God we have gotten away from the old Common Law definition of rape: “Having carnal knowledge of a woman, by a man ,not her husband, against her will”.

Thus, under the Common Law definition, many jurisdictions actually required the victim provide proof that she had resisted to the utmost of her physical ability. (I say she, because, under the Common Law definition, men could not be raped; and there was also a nasty little side law known as “Spousal Immunity”, which has also been abolished).

Under that older system many rapes went unreported because of the requirement that the victim proving that she resisted physically. The old law also lead to some ghastly circumstances, which under modern statutory law, would be considered rape. (Think of forced intercourse with an unconscious person).

Thus, in an attempt to remedy this, the various state level legislatures began creating statutory definitions for rape. These definitions broadened the scope of what constituted rape, and took away the very strenuous requirements of proof of resistance. Needless to say, the development of the Rape Shield laws, and the broader definitions was something that was, and continues to be needed.

However, an unexpected consequence of that new found anonymity is the rise of false accusations. That being said, society does have a rape culture; and I do think that the old laws may have played some role in strengthening the foothold of that culture. The problem is, attempting to find a way to remedy the first wrong, without creating a new type of wrong; and there is no easy solution or answer for that.

With respect to a “National Law” for rape; it is true that there is no set federal sentencing for rape convictions. (Federal courts will usually apply the state sentencing guidelines where the crime occurred); however, there has been a recent push for a uniform definition of rape. That very well could be the first step towards a “National Law” for rape, in a sense. (see: http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2012/01/will-new-federal-definition-of-rape-significantly-impact-approaches-to-sex-crimes-and-punishments.html )

It's such a difficult area of law, and I can honestly say it is one of the reasons why I refuse to do felony defense appointments. I honestly feel I could not zealously defend an accused rapist. (I still believe in the rule of law, and providing the best defense, but personally I couldn't do it). But the crime itself is an ever prevalent and concerning problem.
 
I think it's safe to say that EVERYONE knows someone who's been the victim of rape, even if they're not aware. It's something like 1 in 5 woman are sexually assaulted.
Even though it's harder to prove, someone isn't more likely to make a false accusation about rape than something more benign, like robbery.
It's a lot more damaging for someone to be raped and not believed than for someone to be falsely accused. Now you not only have the aftermath of the assault to live with, but not having anyone believe you? Being told it was your fault? Watching the person who assaulted you walk free?
Rape is vastly under reported, and our culture plays a part in that fact. It's everywhere. In the news, media, our every day interactions. We look for reasons why someone "deserved" what happened to them (she was dressed like a slut, etc) so that we don't have to face that 'it could happen to me." Shame has been called the rapist's greatest weapons. Think, it weighs especially heavy on male victims. As Captain Jay pointed out, they're still changing laws that define what rape is (because it's a lot more complex than just P in V), who can be a victim (men, too) and who can't commit it (husbands. you married him, how can be rape you?) We're making strides, but at the same time, there's still so far to go.
 
A few other thoughts:
To a certain extent, society says that men can't control themselves. Like, men can't help but have affairs (his wife 'let herself go' so of course the 20-some secretary caught his eye.) Men are wired to 'spread their seed.' By slut-shaming, we're not only placing blame on the victim, but what she was wearing. Yes, inanimate pieces of clothes are to blame, not the rapist. The mini skirt drove him to it! Women are warned not to be "teases" because once a guy starts "thinking" with his "other head" he can't always stop.

Anyone ever flip through pick-up artist books? I have a bunch of friends who read them. One thing that jumped out at me was something along the lines of: If a girl says no to your advances (ie, you're making out and you try to take off her shirt) stop, and just go back to what you were doing before. But try again in a bit, because that's just her "anti-slut defense." She doesn't want to seem too easy.

There is so much out there that lends itself into rape culture.
 
This topic has gotten really out of hand, to be honest.

I understand talking about experiences and it's therapeutic, but it's also a discussion thread and has derailed from what the OP was about.

I think this topic is to be closed as it doesn't seem much contribution is being made.

Also- Women do more slut-shaming than men will ever do.

The corset was invented by a woman.

It was Catherine de Médicis who was a wife to King Henri the 2nd who invented the corset. And Mary Phelphs Jacobs invented the "Brassiere," which later became the bra. Herminie Cadolle was the inventor of "Bra-like" breast supports, but in 1928, a Russian immigrant named Ida Rosenthal was responsible for grouping women into cup-sizes/bust sizes.

The more you know.

But yes, this topic is done. Closed.
 
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