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Rape Culture

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Rape predates clothing.

And letting rapists have a setting where they can rape? It's not sexual. It's power-based using a sex act.
 
Hahvoc The Opast said:
Rape predates clothing.

And letting rapists have a setting where they can rape? It's not sexual. It's power-based using a sex act.
Click to expand...

What Hahvy said. It's not a sexual thing. It's power.

It can be quite similar to pedophiles. I'm not talking ephebophiles and being attracted to ages 13-18. But small children. Those men too are simply looking for power. I was once watching a documentary on one specific pedophile rapist, and incidentally the man actually kept a voice recorder to take notes on kids he noticed at a particular school, and they played a few bits from his recordings. And how he was describing them and how he wanted them... all he describes was them kicking and screaming and crying for help. He was getting a jolly out of the idea of dominating these kids. Their helplessness, knowing that someones welfare was in his hands, and no matter what the kid did, he was making all of the calls.

But pedophilia is slightly different. I think pedophiles simply aren't right in the head at all. But rape I think stems from some of our inner animalistic traits that we very much so could control.

Sadly the most common recurring prisoners in prison are pedophiles and rapists, and they also have it the hardest in prison. A lot of them need to be put into isolation or else they could very likely get killed. Maybe that's a way to fix them... don't isolate them. Let the other prisoners beat the shit out of them.
 
With pedos, I've noticed it's not just power but saying "They love the kids." But it's completely twisted. But that's some peds, not all of them.

And personally, I'm glad they get the crap kicked out of them in prison/killed. Rapists and child killers/rapists don't have the mental capacity or conscience to atone for what they've done and can't be "fixed."

However, culture/society is a major factor as to why this is a problem. Don't give rapists an environment in which they can operate because, without meaning to probably, you give them the okay to do what they do and you'll just turn cheek and excuse it away.
 
The power of the word "No" is very important. I do believe there is a Rape Culture, as is described by you, Hahvoc. I don't think, however, that one can blame it on the fiction or role-plays or even the inclinations of men and women. I agree that both genders should never assume anything, as at any moment, IMHO, the word no has absolute power. As a RL/RT/RR (Real Life/Real Time/Real Relationship) Master and BDMS person, I am at times criticized for being overly concerned with that and overly willing to stop at every utterance of the word no. Most of the time not.

One time, at a club, several younger (adult) people were there by invitation. A "Master", with an at that point infamous rep as a "Pretender" using BDSM to hide his issues with women, started in on her. Things were getting heated, and she said no. She was crying, and I moved in to stop it cold. He and another who was about to join in started to get in my grill, but I didn't back down. At least twelve other Masters and Doms came to my side, saying that if it should stop and I said it should, they were on my side. Someone got the band to stop, and I asked her. She said she wanted him to stop each time, but she thought if she let him, it would be over.

Then he said, and I quote: "Since when does what a woman really says matter? Besides, wearing that, she really wanted...."

The reason he didn't finish the sentence was in five second, I had tackled him and was beating the crap out of him. It took twenty other M/Ds to pull me off of him.

After the cops left with him (he was later sentenced to twenty years.. I will let you figure out why...), the girl asked me if there were more people like me there in the lifestyle, and I said yes. She hugged me and then enjoyed the rest of her night. Sometime later, I helped with her training.



I didn't write that out to get anyone to pat me on the back, nor to score points with anyone. I did to make this point.


Rape is rape. If she or he said no, and you didn't stop, it is rape. If he/she fucked you, but then finds out you weren't the person he/she thought you were, and you did nothing to correct it in real life, it is rape. If he/she is not understanding what you are doing, it is rape. If you don't respect a safe/cancellation word, it is rape.

THE MOMENT THAT HE OR SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO, AND THEIR EYES HAVE FEAR THAT IF IT IS OVER THEY WONDER IF YOU MAY KILL THEM OR NOT STOP AFTER THAT... IT. IS. RAPE.

Role-play between consenting adults is obvious, much more than some people want to believe. Rape is also just as obvious. End of story.
 
Good. Hope he fucking stays there longer and gets more than what's coming. Sorry. Rape is a very touchy subject for me. Those who know me know fucking why. Fuck that bastard.
 
I see a couple of guys posting here, more than I thought that I would, but I can see that noone has quite voiced an opinion that I can completely agree with so I'll go ahead and jump in here if only because I have always enjoyed this section of the website when I was around the first time.

To begin, I do believe that there is a 'Rape Culture' as depicted in the article. I do not believe for a second, however, that what a woman wears encourages a rapist to take her. The article, on the other hand, is proof that some people do. Now what that translates to is the girls/women who are part of the 'rape culture' may dress like a three-dollar vegas whore to 'invite' men to take them without they, themselves, even understanding what it is that they are asking for. In my opinion, this can be many things, but most commonly I believe that these women are, perhaps, seeking to experiment with the BDSM or Gorean lifestyles. Obviously, they are looking in the absolutely most wrong place possible, but inexperience would deny them that insight. You would be surprised how many girls have shied away from me after we got semi-close and I told them how I operate in a relationship. Ignorance and bad media attention liken the lifestyles of the darker desires to nonconsensual acts of sex and power.

Now, a side effect of this appears in cases like Ruphhausin's story. There, you have a nice girl who just wants to get a taste of what the lifestyle has to offer. Naturally, she goes to a club where such things are openly welcome and she shows a little skin to attract some interest. She isn't looking to be raped - only noticed. Of course, in Ruphhausin's example here, she attracts the attention of the wrong asshole and certain things happen because he is the kind of tool that the 'rape culture' revolves around.

Now, I myself enjoy 'forced' play with my partner. I am dominant and I practice a lifestyle closely resembling what you would call 'Gorean', if only a little softer on the 'my partner is property' aspect. My partner is nothing less than that to me, but I take complete sexual control. In all other aspects of life, my partner is my equal.

That said, it is easy for me to see where the article is coming from because I do enjoy 'raping' my partner. Now, it isn't really rape because she is armed with the ability to stop me if she truly wanted to, but the word 'No' or a little bit of fight just doesn't work with me. As it has been brought up already in this thread, safe words are vital to a relationship rooted in these kinds of desires and even though fighting me won't stop me (which she enjoys as well, so I can't feel at all guilty about the situation), she can simply utter her safe word to turn me from an animal into a shocked little bitch of a man running my fingers through her hair and asking if she is alright. She uses the safe word so rarely that it honestly scares me when she does. It always makes me think that I have hurt her.

So yeah, there is my take on the matter. A 'rape culture' does exist and is fueled by young women who are honestly just trying to find someone to teach them about submission and domination, the god-forsaken media, and complete and utter wastes of human life like the 'gentleman' in Ruphhausin's story. People like the girl in Ruphhausin's story, however, are innocent victims who get caught in the crossfire of all of this jumbo.

Of course, my theory only explains the rapes that occur randomly and anonymously. I do not dare try to wrap my head around the rapes that occur between friends because I have a lot of attractive female friends. I am loyal to my partner and, even if I was 'that guy', I wouldn't actually rape a woman. Still, I don't need other women creeping into my head when I am laying with my lady.
 
In my current situation with my husband, we practice 'forced' sexual relations as well given our own dynamics as Dom and sub. So I fully and completely understand this. My own personal issues stem from 'the before' and my experiences actually come from being nearly raped by a friend and being more or less raped (since I'm not sure if people would term it this or not or call it something else all together, however no matter what you call it, I was violated... plain and simple and haven't been the same since) by my previous boyfriend time and time again for nearly 4 years via coercion and force. So take that as you will.
 
I think what's a much more prevalent issue is the concept of "false rape culture." Considering over half of all "rapes" occur with alcohol in the victims' system and that the majority of these incidents happen in their the victim's or the attacker's home, it doesn't seem at all as clean cut as depicted. These aren't 250 lbs muscular men pulling away 100 lbs. women into an alley and brutally raping them. In fact, that's extremely rare of the statistics. Most victims also know their attacker. Between all of that, I'm convinced a lot of these cases are not simply a woman (I'd say or man, but the FBI's definition of rape completely ignores the fact that women can rape men) getting raped by a stranger in some brutal fashion. I don't think anyone could argue that a lot of these cases are at the least questionable. Date rape in many cases, sure, but then we get to asking where consent is no longer able to be given.

And according to many places, a woman who has sex while intoxicated, no matter if she said yes or not before hand, no matter if she's been with her partner many times before, is being raped. It's a very sexist legal nature that allows women to get themselves into a lot of trouble while drunk, but where a man is completely liable where he's equally wasted.

Anyway, "rape culture" is bullshit to me. There's far more interest in blaming men for everything. It actually highlights a simple idea in that respect: Women are not capable of being liable for themselves, according to the legal system. How's that for equality between the genders?
 
You do realize that rape started way before alcohol and slutty clothing, yes?

And also, people used to believe that husbands couldn't rape their wives- which is false.

I get it is a sexist law but laws now don't just ignore men getting raped by women- hell, they even say that number is just as high as women rapes because most go unreported. However, it does make sense that more rapes occur amongst people that are known because it's easier to get close to the "prey" if you act like one yourself.

The point of that law is that most women cannot physically move men off of them while drunk and depending on the man and woman in the scenario, can't move them off of them while sober either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics Some statistics.
 
I work in a bar, so I spend my days surrounded by creepers. Normally rational men with loving wives at home become lecherous assholes after a couple of beers. They're in a masculine environment, out of earshot of 'her indoors' and it just makes 'em giddy. I have to make my boundaries crystal clear. I'll tolerate banter and I accept that they're at the bar to kick back and be chauvinist for an hour or two. I expect to hear dirty jokes etc. I get regularly asked for my number, simply because I'm there and usually because they know I'm paid to be polite to them. But any over-stepping of the mark will result in a verbal warning. Ignore a second verbal warning and I won't serve you again. Get obnoxious or aggressive and you're barred.

Outside of work though, I have totally seen this. I also don't like the way it's being popularised in TV by characters like Barney Stinson, Russell Dunbar, Charlie Harper and Family Guy's Glenn Quagmire. It's like the new must-have for any sitcom now is an ageing playboy with a Peter Pan complex. But again I digress. :blush:

One of my ex's friends has never been in a long term relationship and constantly skirt-chases. He's even boasted to my ex about sex with hookers and he's certainly affluent enough to afford them. The trouble is that my ex and his friends pretend to jokily pity him but the reality is that they're somewhat jealous. The other guys in his circle of friends were married, co-habiting and often parents. They get to live vicariously through Peter Pan's exploits, which is why they never seriously checked his behaviour around their own women. They probably believed that he would never make a move on them, that he would honour the 'bro code.' How naive they were.

I heard that Peter Pan (PP) had been banned from one of the guys' houses, because the guy's wife didn't want him visiting. Upon enquiry, I was told only that PP had 'got a bit drunk and made a tit of himself' which I took to mean he had thrown up or something. They guys quickly and abruptly changed the topic of conversation and at the time I thought nothing of it.

I went to a barbeque a few months later and while PP was there, the couple whose house he was banned from didn't show. Nobody commented on this. PP proceeded to drink much more than he ate and later in the evening got very hyper, whilst exhibiting a sniffly nose. At work, I would have spotted this immediately but I was at a friend's barbeque, with people that I knew and trusted.

Later still, I left the upstairs bathroom to find PP waiting to go in. He leaned against the door frame and announced that my partner was 'really punching above his weight' suggesting that I was a catch and implying that I could do better than my partner. I was wearing stretch jeans and they saved me from being raped that night. PP backed me into the bathroom and tried to kiss me. When I resisted he turned nasty and tried to get my jeans down but couldn't. I made enough of a racket for another woman at the BBQ to knock on the door and when I shot out of the bathroom and she saw PP still inside it she didn't even look surprised.

What upset me more than what happened was the fact my (now ex) partner knew this guy was predatory. He had been barred from the friend's house because he had tried it on with the guy's wife. Instead of telling me about this so I could make an informed choice about letting PP through our front door and attending things he was going to be at, he had been evasive to the point of deceit. All so he could live vicariously through this utter sphincter's debauched sexlife. So although I was angry with PP, I was fucking livid at my partner and it damaged my trust in him.

So yeah, go figure.

Men :rolleyes:
 
Awe, but I like Barney Stinson. He may be a lying jerk but he never backs women into a corner just to get laid. He is a playboy/womanizer but he's not a predator.

Then again, I just think Neil Patrick Harris is awesome and has an adorable boyfriend.

But I see your point and that shit would have sent me off the handle. Glad he's your ex and PP isn't in your life anymore.
 
Oh I know Barney isn't predatory to the point of rape but he does capitalise on drunkenness, and wilfully ignores dubious consent. I did know that Neil's gay and he does do a legend - wait for it - dary job of portraying Barney. They're all harmless characters on the surface but there's an undercurrent at times and I dislike the way these characters normalise predatory behaviour and inveterate womanising, they give it a potentially dangerous cool-factor. Stir that into a desperate young man's staple diet of hardcore porn and you could easily create a monster.

And yeah, very glad he's my ex.
 
Yeah, I can definitely agree with you on that. If people take things like that - which are meant to be harmless in a sense- to the dangerous levels that escalate from someone being a playboy to a "I always get what I want no matter what"/rapist just because they think it's okay, then that's where the real problem is. Some things aren't meant to be taken seriously, like TV shows that portray characters like Barney, but people do take those things seriously and think, "Hey, that's a great idea! Maybe I can stop being so desperate," and it escalates.

But you'd also have to drag morality into play and rapists have the mentality of "It's not my fault!"
 
When I was younger...my sister was very predatory towards me and I never told anyone and even now I'm really afraid of what her behavior is going to be towards other young girls. It also didn't help that at the same time I was also raped in my own backyard by two men that lived next door to us.

I also find alot of rape themes in comedy distasteful and the first episode of South Park that actually made me feel offended and kept me from watching the show was the episode where Mr. Garrison is angry about not being molested by his father and the whole episode makes a joke about Child Molestation. It was disgusting and honestly I just couldn't even watch anymore of the show again.
 
I'm amazed that we're talking about personal experiences like it's the rule, not the exception. I personally don't have an issue with discussing it, but let's not act like it proves anything about a general group. Like lilminx mentions, staying silent is doing yourself and other potential victims a huge disservice.

Speaking of jokes. A woman gets raped. Not funny. A man gets raped. Hilarious. Especially if it's in prison. Or if it's a woman that rapes him, he's a faggot for not enjoying it. Or that 14 year old boy that gets fucked by his teacher? That kid has a broken wrist from all the high fives he got at school. I shit you not. That's exactly the behavior I hear from people when they talk about a boy being molested by a woman. Usually ends easy for her too. I don't think I've heard of a case like this where the teacher gets jail time or put on the sex offender status, but when the genders are reversed, it's a guaranteed trip.

Amazing how it's okay for certain people.
 
I think most people here would agree that if a man were raped (and I bet you also that most people here would agree that men indeed CAN be raped... and not just by other men, but by women as well), it would hardly be hilarious. I'm insulted that you'd lump me into a category that would think otherwise by making such a statement merely because myself and a few others here, who happen to be female (and just because us females happened to be the ones who were vocal here in this particular topic), stated personal experiences. Just because we happened to be vocal about it doesn't mean a generalization can or should be made. It's pretty rude to do so quite honestly especially over a topic that is this sensitive. Seriously, people need to truly take a step back and use that organ located within their skull before they speak, or in this case... type.
 
Okay, I thought I had said all I needed to say here, but something has been broached here that REALLY needs to be hit on the head.

RAPE IS NOT FUNNY, PERIOD!!

Like that idiot Daniel Tosh, who literally was, like the hatemongers so many rail against, using inciting speech to say a woman that thought his joke about rape wasn't funny that she should be raped, anyone who thinks that the acts of rape are funny is very disturbed or needs to take a very serious step back and really look at themselves.

I role-play and I write, but as far as the real thing goes: yes, there is a very fine and thin line between putting it down on paper and even pondering it in the mind, but that damn line IS NOT INVISIBLE TO ME. And the leap from role-play to the crime.... that gap makes the fucking Grand Canyon look like a ditch in Grandma's back yard. And in a nation where we have gone from Candid Camera to Punk'd... a joke is closer to the crime than a role-play.
 
It is a sensitive issue, I agree. The problem is that while you're claiming to be lumped into a group, I've long been placed as the bad guy long before ever having committed any crime. I find it incredibly insulting that anyone would even suggest we have a "rape culture". Why? Because instantly it becomes an "us vs. them" topic between the genders. Men are always out to rape women and are mindless animals seeking out their innocent prey. It's a sexist issue that you further strongly highlight by placing yourself into your own camp against me (or mine).
Anyway, like I said, if it's such a sensitive issue up for discussion, don't get upset when your personal example doesn't fit the reality of the norm. I fail to see where it's wrong for me to make a generalization (funny enough, I really didn't), but right from the start it's been alright to assume men are rapists. The fact that you point out only women have posted their experiences further highlights that only women are viewed as potential victims to this. I really do hope more people can consider that sort of concern before making generalizations.

As far as the jokes, I really wish I could say that no one found them funny. It's not hard to hear about prison rape jokes. "Dropping the soap" always leads to a good laugh for many people. I'm too lazy to find some links about examples of jokes being made when a female teacher molests one of her students, but I promise, there's plenty of them.
Speaking of teacher and student. Google "teacher molests student". Men. All men. Now google "teacher has sex with student". Lots of women. We already change the labels with it comes to statutory rape based on what gender is committing the same crime. A few glances at these various cases shows that the women are generally given very light sentences, of any, versus the men who are usually hung by their necks. Usually sex offender status isn't even given to the women in these cases either.

Or we could talk about men simply can't report being raped. Groups have sought to recognize rape as only done to women. As mentioned, the FBI definition only recognizes that men can rape (not even a couple of years ago, only women could be raped, according to the definition). A man that reports being rapes can expect to be ridiculed and told off for being so weak.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men?cat=society&type=article

Or a study that points out the high number of male youths that are raped.

http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

To paraphrase, young men are slightly more likely to be raped than young women in British Columbia. They state that it's not that male rape doesn't happen. We just don't talk about it. I don't think too many men on this forum who have been raped (if any) would talk about it. I know I wouldn't because of the expected backlash. As a man, you're alone in this world in so many ways. Even more so when you are also being told you're a rapist when you've done nothing.
 
You've clearly missed the point of this topic. It's not a witchhunt to track down all the men because "ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS."

It shows that some men will allow predatory men in an environment that is "safe" for them to prowl around in even when their women folk find it uncomfortable until something happens because they "make excuses out of pity."

Your sources seem pretty outdated since hello, wikipedia even has the stats of men being raped and saying that is not as reported as it should be, showing that numbers are probably higher in actuality.

Firm Master said:
As a man, you're alone in this world in so many ways. Even more so when you are also being told you're a rapist when you've done nothing.
Click to expand...

Super alone, man. And no, no one is calling you a rapist, but there are some people who will go "I did nothing!" When in fact, they've taken advantage of someone who was weaker than them. It happens to both men and women.
 
The whole topic is about "rape culture". You have to believe that a lot of people (namely men) are out to rape others. Without that idea, it wouldn't matter if it's allowed or not by others.
What I'm pointing out is that women being "uncomfortable" as you put it is no reason why a man should be persecuted. That's making an excuse out of pity for these women when you decide to discriminate against men.

Yes, 2008 and 2011 is definitely outdated. I wouldn't trust everything Wikipedia has, especially for this sort of topic. There's interest groups that love to bend some truths to further their cause.
 
You totally missed it the point. Again. I said out of pity for the men who are, in fact, predators which are sometimes labelled "Overly desperate," "Creepers," and "That guy that none of the women want around because of his behaviors even after hearing the word no or stop."

If you read what the link was in the first post - the paper itself calls it a "Rape culture" which is why I made it a title. A culture in which rape is allowed in that some people help others who carry the markers that they could and more than likely will become rapists.
 
And this isn't from women who didn't give those men chances. They did. They ended up realizing that those men weren't good to be around and barred them from events. You seem to act like a woman looks at a man and instantly claims he's a rapist. Come on, now. We're adults.
 
You'd be surprised how many women will label a man a rapist on sight.

Anyway, I see your point. I did get off topic on there. I admit, I'm terribly defensive about this topic, mainly because of all the BS I've seen tossed around. That was rather unfair of me and I'm sorry about that.

I'm honestly surprised by the behavior that the boyfriends all portray in these matters. If anyone did anything like that with my wife, they'd not only be removed from our lives, but they'd probably have to pick up some teeth off the ground. I don't offer it as an excuse, but I noticed that at least one of them is more than happy to describe getting wasted and passing out. That's terribly irresponsible of them, imho. Again, it's not some excuse for the matter, just like if I passed out and someone snatched my wallet doesn't make it less of a crime, but on the other hand you can't be terribly surprised when the defecation hits the oscillation. It's actually a major reason I don't like going to bars and if I do, I scarcely, if at all, touch any alcohol.

I noticed in a group of people I hang out with that we do have a couple of guys that are like that. And the girls honestly lead them on, meaning to or not. It makes me tempted to intervene and tell some people to cool it, but at the same time I have no clue if these girls enjoy the attention or not. No one has ever given a firm no (except me to a girl in our group) to anyone. Even moments where it's weird will soon turn into the same old thing pretty quick. So at least from my view, in my own situation, I can't play hero and save the day when it's not clear someone wants to be saved. So what do you do with that? Just let it all go on until, if, it escalates?
 
If I am also going off topic with anything I have said or will say, I do apologize, Hahvy.

I would like to add that false accusations also do not help, from and toward either side.
 
Thing is, women do like attention same as men, so it could possibly be, in your situation, that they are allowing the attention but want it controlled. It may be "leading on," but if you pay close attention, it doesn't stray far from supposedly harmless flirting. It's the guys' comments about it that would raise a flag such as, "She's such a tease and just asking for it," etc, etc, with some aggravation thrown in. That's a flag. But women do things like that as well and from my standpoint - imho - men are more prone to misread signals and then flip their shit. I've seen women do this, but just from my own experience, men get a hell of a lot more uppity when their advances are denied because they're horny and expected some tail.

FM - There isn't a reason to get so defensive. It's a topic that is allowing for some debate but getting so heated does nothing for anyone.

Ruph- You seemed to stay on topic but I accept the apology nonetheless. It is a sensitive topic so I understand things like this could happen when I made it.
 
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