Feelings on using AI to spruce up story telling?

[CasualVelociraptor]

I have generated one idea with AI before just because I was curious, and generated AI faceclaims since those can be hard to write exactly. However since realizing the energy and water usage of AI I have renounced even that for myself, and use of AI in the writing at all would be an automatic game over.

 

[Arclight1988]

I have generated one idea with AI before just because I was curious, and generated AI faceclaims since those can be hard to write exactly. However since realizing the energy and water usage of AI I have renounced even that for myself, and use of AI in the writing at all would be an automatic game over.

That I had not thought of, also seems like it should be an issue they need to solve before pushing further. I doubt its going anywhere any time soon though.

 

[CasualVelociraptor]

That I had not thought of, also seems like it should be an issue they need to solve before pushing further. I doubt its going anywhere any time soon though.

I regret any contribution to the end of the planet as we know it…I think what needs to be done is, if you think that your partner is violating any boundaries around AI, place their text into an AI detector and then confront them about it. Otherwise it could be part of the end of creativity.

 

[SavageBunny]

This could be a personal problem, but I feel like questions like that could easily get annoying and would have a hard time asking such things to a partner.

I don't think many people would be annoyed at a question like that. Roleplaying is a collaborative thing, after all.

As for the prompt....I think the general points it gives do a good job at pointing you into the right direction. But also: You'd probably gotten the exact same points by just typing "Writing Advice for Fantasy Clothing" into google. Because I'm pretty sure, I've read advice very similar to that myself.

Which kinda reinforces my original opinion, that AI is kinda superfluous when it comes to writing. Everything it could possibly do is probably done better by humans or tried and tested simpler things.

 

[Arclight1988]

I regret any contribution to the end of the planet as we know it…I think what needs to be done is, if you think that your partner is violating any boundaries around AI, place their text into an AI detector and then confront them about it. Otherwise it could be part of the end of creativity.

Well it looks to be more than just that, AI is being used to offset energy and cooling of googles other servers. The question will be over time which would be better expanding and cooling traditional servers or the ability to reduce current energy of AI, and costs both Financial, Enviromental, and Future augments to things. Ill have to keep an eye on this thanks for bringing it up.

 

[CasualVelociraptor]

Well it looks to be more than just that, AI is being used to offset energy and cooling of googles other servers. The question will be over time which would be better expanding and cooling traditional servers or the ability to reduce current energy of AI, and costs both Financial, Enviromental, and Future augments to things. Ill have to keep an eye on this thanks for bringing it up.

I think the idea they’re having now is building more nuclear energy to try to make AI energy needs carbon-free, but for now the amount of server infrastructure being put in place for our increasingly electrified economy (everything from AI to cloud gaming) far exceeds nuclear capacity. Perhaps we can talk more in a PM though so as to avoid derailing the topic of AI ruining creativity on this site.

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

I don't think AI could make someone a better writer, I wouldn't even trust it with grammar since we've already since a drop in it's ability to do math problems. But back to AI not helping you become a better writer. From what I understand with things like ChatGPT is that is is just predicting what is most likely to come after each word, which means that it will always weight and outcome to the most likely which would flatten and reduce your diction. Asking it to do things in the style of certain authors invites issues with it just spitting said author back at you.

Personally I think the AI bubble is going to burst in a couple of years and people are going to lose a lot of money. It's already a losing money and has yet to produce anything that can make a profit. There might be some edge cases where it could be useful, I don't know what they are, but the way it's being pushed more and more is just desperation as the technology is running out of usable training data.

Just read and write more if you really want to be a better writer.

 

[CasualVelociraptor]

I don't think AI could make someone a better writer, I wouldn't even trust it with grammar since we've already since a drop in it's ability to do math problems. But back to AI not helping you become a better writer. From what I understand with things like ChatGPT is that is is just predicting what is most likely to come after each word, which means that it will always weight and outcome to the most likely which would flatten and reduce your diction. Asking it to do things in the style of certain authors invites issues with it just spitting said author back at you.

Personally I think the AI bubble is going to burst in a couple of years and people are going to lose a lot of money. It's already a losing money and has yet to produce anything that can make a profit. There might be some edge cases where it could be useful, I don't know what they are, but the way it's being pushed more and more is just desperation as the technology is running out of usable training data.

Just read and write more if you really want to be a better writer.

Very succinctly put. When I tested an AI steampunk story for instance against my own writing, it very much looked like a computer completing a checklist, very dry and straightforward. You just can’t replicate the spontaneity of human beings. What I’m worried about as media becomes more and more expensive to make and competitive is that people and corporations will use LLMs in general even if the big models collapse as shortcuts in the rat race for influence, and that small human artists will be drowned out in the noise. Even then though there is definitely a backlash growing towards AI content and corporate rehashing.

 

[Arclight1988]

Very succinctly put. When I tested an AI steampunk story for instance against my own writing, it very much looked like a computer completing a checklist, very dry and straightforward. You just can’t replicate the spontaneity of human beings. What I’m worried about as media becomes more and more expensive to make and competitive is that people and corporations will use LLMs in general even if the big models collapse as shortcuts in the rat race for influence, and that small human artists will be drowned out in the noise. Even then though there is definitely a backlash growing towards AI content and corporate rehashing.

I like your point and it does raise the point of modern media is really taking a hit these days, is it the writers lack a creative spark or are they already using AI. In your view as inevitably bad, in my view as poorly.

The checklist example is a good point, and ive found you are better off only using it in a fashion to how you are supposed to use spark notes. People will copy paste blindly, but most I believe will use it as a reference and can get better with it.

I don't think AI could make someone a better writer, I wouldn't even trust it with grammar since we've already since a drop in it's ability to do math problems. But back to AI not helping you become a better writer. From what I understand with things like ChatGPT is that is is just predicting what is most likely to come after each word, which means that it will always weight and outcome to the most likely which would flatten and reduce your diction. Asking it to do things in the style of certain authors invites issues with it just spitting said author back at you.

Personally I think the AI bubble is going to burst in a couple of years and people are going to lose a lot of money. It's already a losing money and has yet to produce anything that can make a profit. There might be some edge cases where it could be useful, I don't know what they are, but the way it's being pushed more and more is just desperation as the technology is running out of usable training data.

Just read and write more if you really want to be a better writer.

Been told my whole life that and got to a point improvement slowed down or stagnated. Ive had better experiences working and tweaking AI promts to better describe what I am trying to convey. Its not that I couldnt do so other ways, but in the past trying to describe something right could frustrate me enough to make me want to give up completely even on trivial things. If I could not say it right I would have extensive trouble continuing. Now I can work through sometime describing it better in 10-15 minutes to get it right.

 

[Keith Logan]

I use AI heavily for my work that involves coding, and have at least two paid subscriptions. So I appreciate this new age phenomenon.

That said, using AI to directly craft a response is a huge no no no. I can turn a blind eye if one prompts AI to suggest a couple of ideas on how to approach a scene or how to describe something. But the moment you get AI to do the actual writing? That’s crossing the line.

I spend hours, if not, days to craft my responses for my partners. I have a very structured way of approaching a reply and it involves:

1) Laying out bullet points first whenever I read a fresh reply, essentially like a dumping ground of potential avenues I can consider approaching for my next response,

2) Go about doing my other daily work and routine,

3) Come back and drop more bullet points whenever I’m suddenly inspired during periods of mind wandering (I wonder how many of you actually think about your role plays in periods throughout the day lol),

4) Image search to provide inspiration,

5) Sit down during toilet breaks to review materials and start crafting out the first draft,

6) Actually sit down to review and refine my draft once I get undisrupted time to write. I tailor make the images I use for my plays using photoshop or online resources to make them suit the vibe of a given scene.

In short, it is a lot of effort that I put in to the crafting of every one of my replies. If I know my partner was to reciprocate my effort with the output of AI, with the main work involved being no more than to paraphrase them, I would be so disappointed.

AI typically follows a certain syntax and expression when writing. I don’t exactly know what is it, but one can feel this ‘syntheticness’ of an AI response once you’ve dealt and been exposed to it long enough. That is why there are anti-plagiarism algorithms out there to detect students using AI to do their work. Unless you’re paraphrasing the whole AI output, parts of the reply will always feel ‘synthetic’.

Writing is a form of art. And I find joy in entering the minds of my partners through their written work, and appreciate their interpretation of how our play is going. That magic is lost once you’re getting something else to do that work for you. The writing is just not a reflection of you.

Honestly, by reading enough work out there, that is how a reader can learn to better their writing. What you want to do, is to expose yourself to as many different writing styles as you can, instead of going to AI to rely on this one, narrow and increasingly predictable flair for writing. I believe a person’s writing is a reflection of them as a person (how they think etc. and can we all agree that all of us lay down some parts of our personalities - no matter how discrete or minute - into our characters?).

My plea is that you take the long road and slowly discover and define your unique literary identity.

shoutout.

 

[Arclight1988]

I use AI heavily for my work that involves coding, and have at least two paid subscriptions. So I appreciate this new age phenomenon.

That said, using AI to directly craft a response is a huge no no no. I can turn a blind eye if one prompts AI to suggest a couple of ideas on how to approach a scene or how to describe something. But the moment you get AI to do the actual writing? That’s crossing the line.

I spend hours, if not, days to craft my responses for my partners. I have a very structured way of approaching a reply and it involves:

1) Laying out bullet points first whenever I read a fresh reply, essentially like a dumping ground of potential avenues I can consider approaching for my next response,

2) Go about doing my other daily work and routine,

3) Come back and drop more bullet points whenever I’m suddenly inspired during periods of mind wandering (I wonder how many of you actually think about your role plays in periods throughout the day lol),

4) Image search to provide inspiration,

5) Sit down during toilet breaks to review materials and start crafting out the first draft,

6) Actually sit down to review and refine my draft once I get undisrupted time to write. I tailor make the images I use for my play using photoshop or online resources to make them suit the vibe of a given scene.

In short, it is a lot of effort that I put in to the crafting of every one of my replies. If I know my partner was to reciprocate my effort with the output of AI, with the main work involved being no more than to paraphrase them, I would be so disappointed.

AI typically follows a certain syntax and expression when writing. I don’t exactly know what is it, but one can feel this ‘syntheticness’ of an AI response once you’ve dealt and been exposed to it long enough. That is why there are anti-plagiarism algorithms out there to detect students using AI to do their work. Unless you’re paraphrasing the whole AI output, parts of the reply will always feel ‘synthetic’.

Writing is a form of art. And I find joy in entering the minds of my partners through their written work, and appreciate their interpretation of how our play is going. That magic is lost once you’re getting something else to do that work for you. The writing is just not a reflection of you.

Honestly, by reading enough work out there, that is how a reader can learn to better their writing. What you want to do, is to expose yourself to as many different writing styles as you can, instead of going to AI to rely on this one, narrow and increasingly predictable flair for writing. I believe a person’s writing is a reflection of them as a person (how they think etc. and can we all agree that all of us lay down some parts of our personalities - no matter how discrete or minute - into our characters?).

My plea is that you take the long road and slowly discover and define your unique literary identity.

shoutout.

I do agree that if you are copy and pasting an AI prompt and sending that you are doing aomething wrong, probably a few somethings.

My point is it has many practical uses that can improve things, similar to the beginning of your response. Even with AI I am only really refining each catagory or as you put it bullet points till I can pull everything myself.

Similar to in coding you might look up how to make a function search through a list. However that is only a small part of the whole function. Im still pretty beginner to coding myself, but trying to improve.

 

[shade123226]

From my experience, AI isn't particularly useful at 'sprucing things up.' I primarily use it when I know that I want a scene that, say, involves being in a courtyard and having a conversation about the ongoing war but can't think of how to start the scene. Pop that into an AI, and it writes a scene that's pretty garbage, but it gives me a starting point that I can then use to kick my brain into gear and get something written.

Fact it, for me at least, editing is easier than writing from scratch, even if I end up rewriting every single word.

 

[DemonicOne]

Personally I dont use it. But, Im all for using it to enhance your own writing to an extent. If you are using AI for every response then it can become tiresome rather quickly. But, if you use it sparingly when you otherwise arent sure what to post then its fine but I do enjoy some human element in writing.

However, I have used AI to assist with building a world or a specific aspect of it. For instance, I used it once to create a Christian heresy based in the 1960s for an RP. I used it just recently to help create the an all-girls boarding/reform school for troubled teens and help give me some idea what their uniform would look like. I have a long-term partner that used it to help us create in depth Cyberpunk world.

In short, AI is useful when used as a tool but when used exclusively it can become boring as it removes the human element and for me, seeing a well written post that has some elements of human thought and emotion but is only say 2 paragraphs, is better than having 5-6 paragraphs written purely by a machine incapable of human emotion

 

[faye]

What makes or breaks a rp for me is that I am able to see the world we are playing in through our character's eyes. Not the eyes of ChatGPT. I did ask AI for help with picturing elements of rps. For research I think it's absolutely great to use it, but I still want the words to be written by my partner.
When it comes to interactions between our characters: Ewwwww no please no, for heavens sake NO!

 

[Pale Blue Dot]

Honestly? It's cheap and gross. I won't RP with people who use AI to write posts for me, especially since those algorithms need to steal from other authors to work.

 

[Arclight1988]

Honestly? It's cheap and gross. I won't RP with people who use AI to write posts for me, especially since those algorithms need to steal from other authors to work.

This comes from a misunderstanding how AI works, its not stealing any more than writing a non cannon character, in an established work is plagiarism.

I am finding it amusing how many people react to any use of AI like an arachnophobe who sees a spider.

 

[Pale Blue Dot]

This comes from a misunderstanding how AI works, its not stealing any more than writing a non cannon character, in an established work is plagiarism.

I am finding it amusing how many people react to any use of AI like an arachnophobe who sees a spider.

I work in the industry. It's absolutely stealing. AI can't synthesize or be creative on its own and is literally feeding in information that already exists and then guessing what word is most likely to come next. It's yucky. It's inauthentic. If I find my partners using it, I drop them. It's not okay to use peoples' information for your dataset without their permission either and that happens often.

 

[Arclight1988]

I work in the industry. It's absolutely stealing. AI can't synthesize or be creative on its own and is literally feeding in information that already exists and then guessing what word is most likely to come next. It's yucky. It's inauthentic. If I find my partners using it, I drop them. It's not okay to use peoples' information for your dataset without their permission either and that happens often.

How is using basic sentence stucture, and following elements based on common theme, ideas, and genres inauthentic?

I agree if you are copy pasting whatever AI spits at you that your not really contributing.

Yet since practicing with AI I have learned new words, new ways to describe things, new themes and ideas, better understanding of speech patterns based on eras all things I can add to my writing to improve it.

Saying its stealing is the same as complaining if someone uses a reference book of any kind its just stealing.

 

[SavageBunny]

Saying its stealing is the same as complaining if someone uses a reference book of any kind its just stealing.

I think the point is less that you (the person using AI) is stealing, but that the companies running them are stealing. And making a lot of money with it. Which is objectively true. Personally, I'm not a big fan of that hardline "Don't use unethically sourced products ever!"-stance, but one reason why I dislike AI is that I don't want to support that kind of businessmodel.
That an those few times I did play around with it, I found it amusing at best and useless at worst.

Yet since practicing with AI I have learned new words, new ways to describe things, new themes and ideas, better understanding of speech patterns based on eras all things I can add to my writing to improve it.

I mean, great if that works for you, but wouldn't you get the same effect just by reading? That kinda seems like an unnecessary step inbetween.

 

[Arclight1988]

I think the point is less that you (the person using AI) is stealing, but that the companies running them are stealing. And making a lot of money with it. Which is objectively true. Personally, I'm not a big fan of that hardline "Don't use unethically sourced products ever!"-stance, but one reason why I dislike AI is that I don't want to support that kind of businessmodel.
That an those few times I did play around with it, I found it amusing at best and useless at worst.


I mean, great if that works for you, but wouldn't you get the same effect just by reading? That kinda seems like an unnecessary step inbetween.

Would I get the same skills just reading? No, using AI with 15 seconds I can look up the definition, and ways something is used, and even ways it is used for slang. Not to mention I do not have a lot of free time, and spending it all researching I would never have time to write. I listen to a lot of audiobooks which is great for the imagination, and less for writing skills. If you have endless hours to do nothing, I would still ask why would you spend a lot of your free time researching things your bot even sure to find when five or six prompts in a window can help you understand something in a few minutes?

As for stealing, how they obtain the data, amd implementation I guess could be considered stealing, to me its little different than an alien(Like a space one) sitting in a walmart to learn to imitate people. I would not consider that stealing, but that could just be a difference of opinions which I dont know if there is much reason to argue.

 

[SavageBunny]

Would I get the same skills just reading? No, using AI with 15 seconds I can look up the definition, and ways something is used, and even ways it is used for slang. Not to mention I do not have a lot of free time, and spending it all researching I would never have time to write. I listen to a lot of audiobooks which is great for the imagination, and less for writing skills. If you have endless hours to do nothing, I would still ask why would you spend a lot of your free time researching things your bot even sure to find when five or six prompts in a window can help you understand something in a few minutes?

Is that so? I'm a non-native english speaker and while my english is pretty good, I do occasionally lack some variety in terms of vocabulary. If I find myself repeating a specific word, googling "synonym for X" is barely work.
I'd also be curious why you think that listening to audiobooks doesn't improve your writing skills? Don't you get the same content as if you read it? That might be a me-thing though...
I do read a lot in my free time though, so if you're generally not a reader, that might feel more of a chore.

As for stealing, how they obtain the data, amd implementation I guess could be considered stealing, to me its little different than an alien(Like a space one) sitting in a walmart to learn to imitate people. I would not consider that stealing, but that could just be a difference of opinions which I dont know if there is much reason to argue.

That is a very wide-spread opinion, that doesn't sit right with me for a few reasons.
1) AIs don't learn in the classical sense. They don't understand things. Because they're not build to. That hypothetical alien sitting in a walmart would (hopefully) figure out what the humans are doing there and understand the concept. An AI in that situation would just semi-randomly repeat what it saw.
2) AIs are not beings observing something. They're products. Products that, in order to do what they're designet to do, require a huge amount of learning data. That the companies producing them need to acquire.
It's more like raising cows, that I let graze in my neighbours garden without their consent.

Not to go all anti-capitalist, but I'm astonished how willing some people are to defend large corporations making shit-tons of money, using raw materials (because training data is nothing else) that they didn't pay for.

 

[Arclight1988]

Is that so? I'm a non-native english speaker and while my english is pretty good, I do occasionally lack some variety in terms of vocabulary. If I find myself repeating a specific word, googling "synonym for X" is barely work.
I'd also be curious why you think that listening to audiobooks doesn't improve your writing skills? Don't you get the same content as if you read it? That might be a me-thing though...
I do read a lot in my free time though, so if you're generally not a reader, that might feel more of a chore.


That is a very wide-spread opinion, that doesn't sit right with me for a few reasons.
1) AIs don't learn in the classical sense. They don't understand things. Because they're not build to. That hypothetical alien sitting in a walmart would (hopefully) figure out what the humans are doing there and understand the concept. An AI in that situation would just semi-randomly repeat what it saw.
2) AIs are not beings observing something. They're products. Products that, in order to do what they're designet to do, require a huge amount of learning data. That the companies producing them need to acquire.
It's more like raising cows, that I let graze in my neighbours garden without their consent.

Not to go all anti-capitalist, but I'm astonished how willing some people are to defend large corporations making shit-tons of money, using raw materials (because training data is nothing else) that they didn't pay for.

As for the products I guess that depends on the outlook, we have let companies sell our data ever since signing up for winning prizes for a name, phone number, and email are a thing. We as humanity lost that battle, as everyone allowed lawyer written contracts to infect literally everything we do. People fighting it now are finding years of court presidence, lobbiest, and more money than god in the way. I still hope things change, but I don't expect them too.

This also plays into philosophy as to what is intelligence, beyond taking in endless info and interpretation of it with all of our experiences can you say anything you have ever done is any different than the same, human babies have to be taught how to eat, how to sit up, everything is taught. I view AI as similar, only in essence you are explaining these concepts to an entity that does not percieve the world in the same way you or I do.

As for audiobooks, I was never great at grammer, and find many times when I describe something it makes sense to me, and me alone. Or people read something I have wrote, and dont understand something I thought I did well with. Maybe other people can listen to it and it be the same as reading it, but I am sadly unable to do so.

However with AI, I can run silly things through the interpretor, and see if it makes sense, if properly written, or just ideas if I am trying to convey something specific, and then compare the result with the original, and decide if I want to change anything, or if I liked the original how it is, I am still getting feedback. You have to demand some AI be harsh with you as many are written to always praise you a little too much, but a simple hurdle, and once you use it enough it learns to adapt prompts to what your story has in mind, and may remind you about your characters morals, or past actions so you do not seem to be making arbitrary decisions by mistake, and you can consider whould he do this. I find these additions massively useful, and find it narrowminded how dismissive people are who seem to believe all instances of AI is a plague on humanity.

 

[Zubaida]

Would I get the same skills just reading? No, using AI with 15 seconds I can look up the definition, and ways something is used, and even ways it is used for slang. Not to mention I do not have a lot of free time, and spending it all researching I would never have time to write. I listen to a lot of audiobooks which is great for the imagination, and less for writing skills. If you have endless hours to do nothing, I would still ask why would you spend a lot of your free time researching things your bot even sure to find when five or six prompts in a window can help you understand something in a few minutes?

As for stealing, how they obtain the data, amd implementation I guess could be considered stealing, to me its little different than an alien(Like a space one) sitting in a walmart to learn to imitate people. I would not consider that stealing, but that could just be a difference of opinions which I dont know if there is much reason to argue.

I will remove the useless third wheel and stick with the AI. They won't ghost me.

A litany of data shows how dependency on tech can result in detrimental development. Spacial awareness is down due to GPS. Spelling is down due to spell check and math is down due to calculators. Ai will remove critical thinking. The most vital skill.

English is my third language, Pashto is my first, and Mongolian is my second. If you count ASL, I know four languages. You can do what you want, but you have no creativity if you require AI at any level outside of basic spell check/ grammar (Which it sucks at) if you have 0 alternatives to rp. I recommend quitting the hobby. You lack imagination and the ability to convey it.

 

[Arclight1988]

I will remove the useless third wheel and stick with the AI. They won't ghost me.

A litany of data shows how dependency on tech can result in detrimental development. Spacial awareness is down due to GPS. Spelling is down due to spell check and math is down due to calculators. Ai will remove critical thinking. The most vital skill.

English is my third language, Pashto is my first, and Mongolian is my second. If you count ASL, I know four languages. You can do what you want, but you have no creativity if you require AI at any level outside of basic spell check/ grammar (Which it sucks at) if you have 0 alternatives to rp. I recommend quitting the hobby. You lack imagination and the ability to convey it.

I have no nice way to put my disagreement with you, so I will just say elitest drival like this will kill any hobby in existence.

 

[Aurorus]

How do I feel about AI?
The short version is that I hope that the people using it continue to be open about that, so that I can absolutely refuse to ever engage with them in any creative capacity.

If I wanted to write with machine-generated responses based on other writer's stolen work, I'd do that. After punching myself.
It's destroying the planet, which infuriates me as much as the plagiarism.

I would take a partner using AI in any way as a personal insult that I would not forgive, and would place that disclaimer very openly at the head of any prompt I set out (if I ever end up doing that again).

I write because writing makes me feel alive. I write because it is my joy. It is how I connect with other people. I put huge amounts of heart and effort into my work. Every visceral, deep human connection that I have made in my entire adult life has been via the medium of this kind of creation. Writing is what I live for. It's where my passion lies. At the absolute, essential core of that passion is the human being. The person. The unfettered connection. Mind to mind.

The advent of AI and, specifically, the laser-pointed precision with which it has targeted the theft and automation of the arts galls me in ways I cannot articulate. It is offensive to human consciousness. It is a crime without a court to bring it to heel. It wounds my goddamned soul.

So, no. I won't accept it, and when it comes to anything created with me as a party, I absolutely, flat out will not tolerate it. I won't even do public threads because I don't want my voice and patterns scraped to make some sociopath CEO richer while they merrily play the game of eroding our rights and our futures.

I have been unhappy about this topic for some time and I do at least have to say that the number of responses with the same feeling (if, ah, not my unhinged level of passion) buoys my flagging spirit somewhat.

Bah. If you can't write without AI, then you can't keep up with me anyway.