Fetishistic Language

[KittKatt]

First, I'm going to preface this message in saying that I'm not trying to call anyone out or sling mud, but rather bring up a point that I think deserves discussion and needs discussion, particularly in a place like BMR where it seems like most people try to be progressive and understanding. For context, I am a trans-feminine non-binary person.

I very much struggle with the... pornographic language that is used for trans people, particularly trans-feminine people, on this site. Overwhelmingly, trans-feminine people are referred to as "futas", using language derived from porn and the objectification of trans people. It's so common it's in BMR's own dictionary. Obviously it's not so upsetting that I choose not to be in this community, but I do think it's a place where significant improvement could and should be made. Already BMR struggles with this: hell, our categories are Male, Female, and Non-Binary, where "Non-Binary" is just a catch-all for anything that doesn't fit elsewhere. And while I understand the categories are loose at best anyway - I post my request thread for trans-women characters in the "Female" category, for instance - it makes it incredibly difficult to seek out the already narrow band of characters that may actually be non-binary and whose writers intend to give them struggles and experiences that reflect our own.

The other thing that grates on me about it is that - again from my limited perspective - the use of the term is primarily to circumvent any internal work about gender or identity on the part of the character. It seems to be an understood fact that when someone says "futa," what they mean is "a woman who has a penis, and was born this way, and has never had to grapple with being different, because this is a normal thing that happens." And yes. Intersex people exist. Trans people exist. We are normal. But to handwave the cognitive and emotional toll of being one of the 0.6-2.3% of people that does not fit in the binary feels like a very reductive way to write about those people without actually considering how we feel as people.

Maybe I'm way off base and it's trauma-base hyper-vigilance, maybe there's something here. But it's been rattling around in my head for a while so I wanted to put it out somewhere. I'm not even really sure what I hope to achieve or accomplish by this, other than more inclusive wording and education, maybe? To emphasize, I'm not advocating that these terms be banned or somehow policed, but rather bringing attention to something that impacts people. And I'm also not claiming that using the terms inherently makes you a bad person - I think it's just part of the culture of BMR, and I think we need to be more critical of that culture.

If you choose to reply here, please do so in a civil and responsible manner.

 

[Pretty.Poison]

While I can never understand your personal struggles, or those of many others, and I do not want to be insensitive... I think the most important thing to understand is that a good deal of writers on this site are, in fact, here to explore fetishes & kinks... Thus fetishistic language.

Trans and non-binary are not the only minorities that this happens to. I see a multitude of listings for BBC, fembois, etc... I also see (and have participated in) RP that includes & fetishizes incest, age play, etc... I don't get offended even though I am a survivor if CSA (by a family member).

I, personally, prefer RPs where I can play characters with similar issues to my own... I find catharsis in it. Likewise, I have also (admittedly) dabbled in RPs that are more smut focused, and normalize these things. I whole I prefer the former, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't occasionally enjoy the latter.

The important thing to remember is that no one is intentionally making light of or mocking those that have had to live through and struggle through things, but... at the same time... Not everyone here is looking to play out the mental and physical struggles. Many people here are looking for an escape and just looking to have fun and write some smut.

Really, what it boils down to, is not letting it get to you personally... What another person titles their RT or writes within it has nothing to do with you... It's not a personal attack on you or trans or intersex people. If this were a different type of platform I could see it as more of an issue... But this is an adult RP site where F-lists and listing kinks & fetishes is common practice, so... While I am not trying to invalidate anyone's feelings... I feel like fetishistic language should be kind of expected.

 

[KittKatt]

While I can never understand your personal struggles, or those of many others, and I do not want to be insensitive... I think the most important thing to understand is that a good deal of writers on this site are, in fact, here to explore fetishes & kinks... Thus fetishistic language.

My inherent point, I think, is that people are not fetishes. Black men aren't fetishes, feminine men aren't fetishes, larger women aren't fetishes, trans people aren't fetishes. When we start using language that treats them like fetishes, it dehumanizes them. Just because we're in a place where fetishes are accepted, does not mean that we should choose to use language that dehumanizes people when we could simply choose not to do that.

I, personally, prefer RPs where I can play characters with similar issues to my own... I find catharsis in it. Likewise, I have also (admittedly) dabbled in RPs that are more smut focused, and normalize these things. I whole I prefer the former, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't occasionally enjoy the latter.

I also prefer to write stories with people like me in them. Trans people. People who have undergone similar experiences and struggles as me. But the fetishized version of what I am is a AFAB person with a dick tacked on since birth, which is conveniently just accepted as a normal thing in the world. No further examination of what it actually means to be a trans person. No struggles with being accepted by a binary world. Because the point is to create something that is fun to fuck, not someone who actually matters as a person.

I'm glad you can find partners who let you write those characters that are similar to you. I'd like to be able to do the same. But reducing my gender identity a fetish prevents that.

But this is an adult RP site where F-lists and listing kinks & fetishes is common practice, so... While I am not trying to invalidate anyone's feelings... I feel like fetishistic language should be kind of expected.

Ultimately, I think to say "you're on a fetish site, expect fetishes" is ignoring the actual issue: people aren't fetishes. And while it isn't personal and isn't intended to be an attack, the fact of the matter is that the language we use shapes the way we think and feel about the world.

 

[Pretty.Poison]

I'm going to be respectful as possible when I say this, but... It does seem like you are trying to push for something more than conversation, it seems like you want action to be taken. I realize that in the world it seems like everyone has fallen over themselves to adopt terms and language in order to be sensitive to everyone's feelings... And I am not here to get into a socio-political debate on that subject... But I will stand up and say that BMR (as a whole) is very open minded and caters to all sorts without bias. As long as you stay within the guidelines, you are pretty much free to explore whatever interests you have without guilt or shame for them...

That said... It seems as though you are coming in with your own (admittedly) trauma based response...

Maybe I'm way off base and it's trauma-base hyper-vigilance

And, essentially, shaming an entire community for using words on a site that's primary focus is fiction... Fictional characters with fictional lives in fictional settings.

I don't particularly like bimbofication or the way some submissives are expected to mindless obedient slaves... Rather than get offended by it because I happen to be a white (cis)female - generally the stereotype of "bimbo" characters, and (primarily) a submissive... I just don't engage in those RPs or with people that seek that type of RP. I also don't tend to seek out RPs with people that want to include themes like rape & abuse but aren't willing to explore the psychological toll or the repercussions of it... Because that's not my cup of tea.... Again, I don't get offended because that is what someone else is advertising for.

It seems to me like you are giving certain words way too much power over you, and I really have no advice for that.

This will be the last thing I say here, as it seems likely this will just continue to devolve or escalate, and I'm not going waste my time or end up disciplined for an argument I didn't intend to get into. I do hope you find some peace. Good luck & best wishes.

 

[sevyn.]

I agree with you, mostly. I've always found it uncomfortable that this site is crawling with fetishes rooted in racism, transphobia, homophobia, and even allows sexual content involving kids, but ultimately, you can't control what other people do and you just have to avoid these people as well as you can, if not move to a different site more in line with your morals, such as Iwaku. In my thread, I'm direct about my limits and so I don't often encounter people who are seeking these things, and if they do seek them in other stories, that has nothing to do with me.

This site is very largely made up of cis and / or het white people, so I don't expect them to understand or care about why things like that are so uncomfortable, because it's just a fetish to them, not a lived experience or trauma like it is for us. I just protect my peace and it's up to you alone to do the same for yourself. Utilise the ignore button as much as you wish.

That said, in fiction, I don't think it's a bad thing to have trans characters be a normalised part of society, I don't think you have to write about dysphoria to write a trans character. I agree that the fetishisation is uncomfortable, but I don't see a problem with writing trans characters who are happy with the way they are and confident in their sexuality, even with the anatomy they were born with, which I find different from dehumanisation.​

 

[song]

hey, non-binary person here with a lot of feelings on this topic!

i just want to say thank you for bringing this up. really. i also want to extend empathy to you since i have also had some trauma-based reactions to people i have written with (yes even on this site) that use fetishistic language (not just targeted towards trans people either). luckily, all of my current partners have been amazing and the issue has never come up since then, but i think its important to have discussions like this on a larger scale. some words just give people impacted by them a 'whiplash' kinda feeling. it brings up bad memories that not everyone understands nor do i expect them to.

personally, when i see fetishes rooted in bigotry in other people's rts, i feel a sort of 'yeesh' feeling and move on. that seems to be the prevailing sentiment here towards kinks they themselves don't agree with or enjoy. if i see similar kinks in someone's rt that has reached out to me, i tend not to engage at all anymore (usually its a case by case basis, mostly vibes) even if they might not have any intentions of breaching my limits within our story. protecting my peace and all that, yk? its not worth the time spent being upset that certain writers treat trans (or really any marginalized) identities as fetishes when i could spend that time writing or chatting with people i do enjoy creating stories with.

without repeating too much of what was already said (since i think @sevyn. has already done an amazing job encapsulating basically everything i wanted to say to a tee), i also personally find catharsis in portraying non-cis characters in a universe that treats people like me as normal. i like my fluffier, escapism stories, what can i say?

 

[Lord DreamCrusher]

I'm going to have to generally agree with @Pretty.Poison. Blue Moon is a writing site that is generally geared (though not required) around sexual topics. Fetishes exist in people, whether that stems from an exploration of trauma, exoticism of fantasies that can't be explored in reality, or otherwise something unexplainable within a person. Furthermore, writing as such found upon this site is fictional and thus no actions written about between consenting partners hurts anyone.

It's understandable to not like certain language but to call people out who do like using said terminology (and are not directing it towards you as a form of insult or abuse) is bordering on policing despite you saying you desire otherwise. In a sense it's kink-shaming, which I personally find far too many request threads on this site are guilty of in my opinion. That's not to say your feelings are invalid, your life experiences are completely different than mine I'm sure, but the ignore feature exists for a reason and you are free to hide the writing of all the people who say things you don't like.

 

[Cat]

just coming in here to echo this bit from sevyn:

I just protect my peace and it's up to you alone to do the same for yourself. Utilise the ignore button as much as you wish.​

as a non-binary person, this is a great discussion to have but ultimately, if you feel uncomfortable by others -- the best you can do is ignore them. i wish you all the best ^-^

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

I think we could probably at least remove the terms from the site's description of the subforum.

 

[Revelations]

For what it is worth, this thread is being monitored by BMR staff - not just for rowdy interactions but for suggestions on how to improve the side and make it more welcoming to both an already established community and any future members.

 

[KittKatt]

It's understandable to not like certain language but to call people out who do like using said terminology (and are not directing it towards you as a form of insult or abuse) is bordering on policing despite you saying you desire otherwise.

Policing requires authority. I have no such authority. I'm expressing that a minority finds a certain kind of language disparaging or objectifying. Just as they are free to choose to use that language, I'm free to point out that it's degrading. I just hope to offer a reason for them to consider not using it in the future.

In a sense it's kink-shaming, which I personally find far too many request threads on this site are guilty of in my opinion.

If you consider trans people a kink. But we aren't, and to imply that speaking out against objectification is kink shaming is false equivalency. It's not kink-shaming to say that terms like BBC, BBW, shemale, or ebony, when applied to people, are objectifying. They reduce people to singular characteristics. Saying those terms are uncomfortable or unpleasant isn't the same thing as saying that someone is a bad person for being into kinks they stem from. I am very intentionally not doing that. I'm into things that are criminal acts. I'm not going to ever say that what you're into makes you a good or bad person.

This site is very largely made up of cis and / or het white people, so I don't expect them to understand or care about why things like that are so uncomfortable, because it's just a fetish to them, not a lived experience or trauma like it is for us. I just protect my peace and it's up to you alone to do the same for yourself. Utilise the ignore button as much as you wish.

I suspect that Sevyn is right, based on the responses to this thought so far. I was hopeful that the community, being fairly open and progressive, might be open to hearing feedback on the language collectively used. That there might be potential for communal discourse on the matter. I'm not sure ignoring everyone who uses them is logistically possible, but I do avoid them however I can. I will take your (Sevyn's) recommendation of another RP site!

without repeating too much of what was already said (since i think @sevyn. has already done an amazing job encapsulating basically everything i wanted to say to a tee), i also personally find catharsis in portraying non-cis characters in a universe that treats people like me as normal. i like my fluffier, escapism stories, what can i say?

I appreciate what you and Sevyn mention about not needing to write dysphoria or write trans characters in judgemental worlds in order to do justice to the trans experience. That's good feedback for me to consider! I also prefer worlds that treat trans people as normal, but where processes like HRT and surgeries are still commonplace and present in the backstories of those characters.

I think we could probably at least remove the terms from the site's description of the subforum.

I honestly think this would be a good step! I think it could also be good to remove it from the site's abbreviations dictionary.

---

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. Even - no, especially those that disagree with me. I do hope that I've been able to communicate my responses in a way that is civil.

I can and have been avoiding the terms and not writing with people who use those terms, but I wanted to raise the topic as an effort in community inclusiveness and diversity. While I appreciate the suggestions from everyone about how to protect myself as a person, that was not intended to be my point, but rather to raise an issue that might - and clearly does - impact a subset of people - so that improvements might be made to the language we use.

 

[KittKatt]

The discussion could extend beyond just trans and nonbinary issues; it also encompasses racial stereotypes.

The most common race based cases are Japanese and Asian female characters. They are frequently portrayed through problematic stereotypes - innocent, petite, virginal, and perpetually in distress. These narrow portrayals not only distort characters but also reinforce harmful stereotypes.

I appreciate these additions to the conversation from another intersectional perspective! While I'm aware of the similar racial fetishes, as a white person, I didn't want to dive in too deeply, and would rather allow people of those minorities to be heard on the issue, so I'm really, really glad you felt comfortable enough to speak up and share. Thank you.

 

[Sync]

You're 100% correct: I have no idea who you are, or what your life experience has been like. All I can do is agree that you should be able to live your life in the best way you see fit...and you can extend to me the same courtesy.

At the end of the day, BMR is a writing site which allows for the exploration of kinks and fetishes in whatever manner is agreed upon by the participating consenting adults, in whatever fictional setting and/or scenario they decide to be fitting for the story they wish to write.

If you are not one of those afore-mentioned participating consenting adults...I would suggest that you simply move on to the next thread.

 

[Pretty.Poison]

You're 100% correct: I have no idea who you are, or what your life experience has been like. All I can do is agree that you should be able to live your life in the best way you see fit...and you can extend to me the same courtesy.

At the end of the day, BMR is a writing site which allows for the exploration of kinks and fetishes in whatever manner is agreed upon by the participating consenting adults, in whatever fictional setting and/or scenario they decide to be fitting for the story they wish to write.

If you are not one of those afore-mentioned participating consenting adults...I would suggest that you simply move on to the next thread.

I agree with all of this.

At the end of the day - regardless of race, gender, orientation, religion, etc... - we all have our struggles, traumas, triggers, and so on. No one can fully understand what someone else has been through, and we can't move through life expecting that everyone, everywhere can or will change to suit us.

I'm also going to drop this here... But mostly for this part...

"Originally, the Japanese language referred to any character or real person that possessed masculine and feminine traits as futanari.[citation needed] This changed in the 1990s, as drawn futanari characters became more popular in anime and manga. Today, the term commonly refers to fictional hermaphroditic female characters. Futanari is also used as the term for a specific genre within hentai-related media (pornographic anime or manga) that depicts such characters."​

I also think that this could set a dangerous precedent... There is a whole thread related to words people don't like and find offensive. Are we going to start policing that language, too?

 

[Ech0]

I agree with all of this.

At the end of the day - regardless of race, gender, orientation, religion, etc... - we all have our struggles, traumas, triggers, and so on. No one can fully understand what someone else has been through, and we can't move through life expecting that everyone, everywhere can or will change to suit us...

I also think that this could set a dangerous precedent... There is a whole thread related to words people don't like and find offensive. Are we going to start policing that language, too?

I was not going to say anything, as a stereotypical "white cis-gender female in the States", but I agree with this. I am already terrified enough of saying/typing something that will offend another as the words I choose to use are never meaning any ill will/intent on anyone. I have always been one of those "live/love and let live/love". No one isn't forcing another to read anything or to even be here or anywhere. I have read things that I have had to Google and then clicked out of the person's thread after said Google-ing experience, and had been able to move on a little wiser.

I have left places that have become too politically involved and I would not like to see anything like that happen here. For what it is worth, most I have come across have been very kind and respectful of things. Non-judgmental, which is something someone like me who is legit out of her element appreciates. I am sorry that any negative has happened and I truly hope that I do not stir any pots. Simply putting more cents into a pile that I should have left in my own pocket.

 

[KittKatt]

I also think that this could set a dangerous precedent... There is a whole thread related to words people don't like and find offensive. Are we going to start policing that language, too?

Arguing that I'm policing people's language is a strawman fallacy. I have not advocated that BMR enforce my will upon anyone. The only thing I have advocated for is the removal of offending language from official BMR postings, to be more welcoming and inclusive, as advocated for by Revelations and BMR Staff. I'm expressing discomfort with language used by others. Further, a slippery slope argument is also a logical fallacy.

The further specificity that we're discussing fictional characters does not particularly make sense to me; are we implying that the language we use to describe fictional people doesn't matter? That the way we portray fictional people doesn't matter? Fiction is a way we express thoughts and feelings about reality. Classic fantasy goblins are fictional. They are also an antisemitic representation of Jewish people. To ignore that fact is to ignore that antisemitism is present in common media consumed by the masses. We should care about what language and descriptions are used in fantasy.

I'm also going to drop this here... But mostly for this part...

"Originally, the Japanese language referred to any character or real person that possessed masculine and feminine traits as futanari.[citation needed] This changed in the 1990s, as drawn futanari characters became more popular in anime and manga. Today, the term commonly refers to fictional hermaphroditic female characters. Futanari is also used as the term for a specific genre within hentai-related media (pornographic anime or manga) that depicts such characters."

I'm uncertain of your point here, but it seems to be:

"Futanari represent an impossible version of humanity, with both male and female genitals, and therefore are not a representation of trans/intersex people."
To this, I'd suggest that the common usage of the word, which is what the article on Wikipedia is referring to, is not representative of how the word is used here on BMR. In my experience, when people on BMR talk about a "futanari" they are referring to a woman with a penis. Period. That is a trans woman. And it is that usage I'm referring to as upsetting.

If that's not your intent, please correct me, it's not my intention to misrepresent you.

You're 100% correct: I have no idea who you are, or what your life experience has been like. All I can do is agree that you should be able to live your life in the best way you see fit...and you can extend to me the same courtesy.

I have and continue to do so. My expression of my emotions and interpretations of the language are based on my life experience. Yours are based on your experiences. If you expressed to me that a word I chose to use felt objectifying to a minority group you are a part of, and a different term would make you more comfortable, I would adjust my language out of courtesy. That seems like a reasonable and empathetic thing to do. If you do not believe that is the case, you're not obligated to comply. I'm just asking that those who are willing to adjust to make people like me more comfortable, do so.

All I'm doing is expressing my wish that people would use a different word. BMR has chosen to express a desire to be more welcoming to people. I've expressed how they can do that for people like me. If you do not share BMR's desire, do not follow my advice. Do not change your language. This thread was placed in this forum intentionally, after consulting with BMR staff, because it is not a suggestion for a change to BMR policy. BMR doesn't have banned words or language. I'm not advocating for a change to that.

 

[KittKatt]

I was not going to say anything, as a stereotypical "white cis-gender female in the States", but I agree with this. I am already terrified enough of saying/typing something that will offend another as the words I choose to use are never meaning any ill will/intent on anyone. I have always been one of those "live/love and let live/love". No one isn't forcing another to read anything or to even be here or anywhere. I have read things that I have had to Google and then clicked out of the person's thread after said Google-ing experience, and had been able to move on a little wiser.

I have left places that have become too politically involved and I would not like to see anything like that happen here. For what it is worth, most I have come across have been very kind and respectful of things. Non-judgmental, which is something someone like me who is legit out of her element appreciates. I am sorry that any negative has happened and I truly hope that I do not stir any pots. Simply putting more cents into a pile that I should have left in my pwn pocket.

Hi there! I may be misunderstanding, but I've not interpreted anything you personally have posted as having ill will or intent. And haven't intended to say that anyone using the language I find objectifying is doing so maliciously. You are correct, no one is being forced to do anything. I sincerely do appreciate your efforts to not offend other people. Just as you never intend ill will, I don't want to make you feel like using words that upset me makes you a bad person, and if I have done so, I am sorry for that.

Unless I'm mistaken, this conversation isn't one you had added your two cents to yet, so you certainly have not stirred the pot any.

I am unsure of how my request for less objectifying language to be used has been interpreted as political in any way. I have not mentioned any political affiliations, nor did I imply anything about anyone's political beliefs.

 

[Ech0]

I had meant "Politics" as a means of Rules/Regulations that would need to be put in place to add stricter usage, as it would affect the entire community, as a whole. 'Tis a touchy word with many meanings and a dangerous one sometimes. I should have known better than to use that one.

I know that my opinion does not matter, nor will what I say have any kind of effect on the goings on here or anywhere.

I truly wish anyone who reads this misunderstanding an apology. <bows out>

 

[cyx.]

Fiction is a way we express thoughts and feelings about reality. Classic fantasy goblins are fictional. They are also an antisemitic representation of Jewish people.

as someone who writes a lot of fantasy, i don't agree with these statements.

goblins are goblins, not a representation of jewish people for me, and they never will be. furthermore, i've never heard of anyone thinking that make believe races are representations of real life people, ever. (not saying just because i've never experienced it that it doesn't happen, but i don't believe that's a very common occurrence.)

claiming that fantasy and fiction go hand in hand with reality is literally disregarding the point of those two genres of writing. what people dive into in a fictional sense are not always aligned with how they feel about reality.

for example, i don't care if my character is degraded during smut scenes; in fact, i like it. do i necessarily want to receive the same treatment with someone in real life? it honestly depends on the context of our relationship and trust level, but probably not in the same extent as my characters are.

i, personally, enjoy non con scenarios in writing. do i want to be involved in / agree with other people actually engaging in proper non con in real life? absolutely not. full stop.

the point of fantasy or fiction isn't to mirror reality, its the exact opposite - i think i rambled a bit, but that's my general two cents about the goblin example specifically.

at the end of the day, i don't think terminology like 'futa' is going to be disregarded entirely. to be honest, i never even thought of it in relation to a trans person, because of the traditional meaning of the word that @Pretty.Poison already posted. i can see, now, where the lines may cross for that kind of topic, but i feel like a lot of people will continue to see 'futa' as something else than a sleight against trans people.

as for racial preferences, i can't say much; i don't judge someone based on their skin. i have different preferences; tattoos, piercings, beards.. but some other people prefer black men, hispanic women, etc. i try not to look at requests to be someone's 'snow bunny' as anything degrading, but more of someone seeking something that they enjoy and want to engage in.

i have a headache, and i definitely rambled more than i intended. i don't mean any ill-will towards anyone, i believe a site like this should be inclusive for everyone. but the best line of advice i've read a few times now is that the ignore button is a good tool to keep posts that might offend or trigger you off your watch list.

 

[komorebi]

I entirely agree that there's way too much fetish, or precisely; treating real people as fetishes here. Even when people say, "we're just roleplaying/fantasizing/etc," sure! We all are (sometimes). But real people have to sit here and see these terms used. As others in agreement have said, I just regularly use the block button. Nonetheless, as someone Black, it is exhausting to see how often I have to ignore so many people for using these terms. The mental fatigue when I want escapism too is a wild toll. Also kind of feels like people are at times saying their right to escapism should be put above others comfort.

Partly, I do also think these terms are just too normalized. Like if you take the smut/porn element out of the convo, it becomes like any other interaction on the internet where we have to ask what's being normalized in a community and why. Putting the smut and erotica back in, a lot of the porn and erotica spaces have had these problems for a long time, and because there's also an element of scrutiny due to it being adult stuff, I think people get doubly more defensive when the convos come up.

Removing the terms from the site's description is a nice move to me, because it helps not make them normalized. But I also do appreciate people just being open about their fetish. If real people are fetish to them? Thanks for telling me so loud, up front and center. I know who to ignore and keep moving. I think a potential middle-ground is having it so people at least are encouraged to use non-fetishized terms in their title, but have some kind of tag or marker to indicate they are indeed searching for the fetish version of it. And in their thread, they're then free to use whatever language they like. I think that's a decent way to ensure comfort of everyone just browsing forums, but not stopping anyone from advertising or searching for what they want.

edit: I also think WrittenFantasies makes a strong point. No matter how much of this is rooted in what people feel is just fantasy for them, it will always lead to a form of real world imbalance. Whether that's just continued prejudice or what. And ultimately, there are enough real people on this site who have a right to comfort and fantasy without having to feel anxious about searching, being wary of who they're talking or just tired of seeing themselves and other marginalized people being treated as a fetish. Just having the discussion is worthwhile, and hopefully everyone who has any say and power on BMR will also be able to come up with something to ensure everyone's comfort and welcomeness to the site.

 

[KittKatt]

I truly wish anyone who reads this misunderstanding an apology. <bows out>

You didn't owe anyone an apology, you didn't say anything wrong.

i've never heard of anyone thinking that make believe races are representations of real life people, ever. (not saying just because i've never experienced it that it doesn't happen, but i don't believe that's a very common occurrence.)

Here's a citation for one such instance, involving one of the most popular fictional series on the planet. I'm not saying that makes it a "common occurrence," exactly, but it is worth noting. I'd also suggest this article for more discussion on racism in fantasy.

As a statement for future posts in this conversation: As much as I appreciate that I am able to block people and ignore content, that is not the point I am trying to make. I'm not making this post because I am upset personally. I am, don't get me wrong, but it's not the reason I wrote this. I wrote this to express that the language used by this community could be objectifying to people like me, and that the community might be served by changing that. Blocking people serves me, yes. It does not serve every other trans person who comes to the site in the future.

 

[Pink.]

I have and continue to do so. My expression of my emotions and interpretations of the language are based on my life experience. Yours are based on your experiences. If you expressed to me that a word I chose to use felt objectifying to a minority group you are a part of, and a different term would make you more comfortable, I would adjust my language out of courtesy. That seems like a reasonable and empathetic thing to do. If you do not believe that is the case, you're not obligated to comply. I'm just asking that those who are willing to adjust to make people like me more comfortable, do so.

I see you, and I see the intention this thread was created with (exampled beautifully in the above quote). This is an incredibly important and fraught conversation, and it's not the first time it's been brought up on BMR. The people who care will adjust the way they speak, and those who don't, well. That's on them. It harms no one to be mindful of the language used to describe others, and I'm always amazed how up in arms folks can get when someone simply points out "when you say this, it hurts me". This thread likely won't bring expansive change to BMR, but I hope it does bring awareness to folks on this site that the language we use does matter.

 

[KittKatt]

I see you, and I see the intention this thread was created with (exampled beautifully in the above quote). This is an incredibly important and fraught conversation, and it's not the first time it's been brought up on BMR. The people who care will adjust the way they speak, and those who don't, well. That's on them. It harms no one to be mindful of the language used to describe others, and I'm always amazed how up in arms folks can get when someone simply points out "when you say this, it hurts me". This thread likely won't bring expansive change to BMR, but I hope it does bring awareness to folks on this site that the language we use does matter.

Thank you! I appreciate you saying so. I think the sensitive nature of the topic combined with the interpretation that I wanted policy change that would impact members brought an intensity to the conversation. You're right about this thread, but I too hope that it brings some awareness to others, and also makes people who feel similarly to me aware that they aren't alone, and that it's important and okay to express those feelings.

Thank you again!

 

[Sync]

All I'm doing is expressing my wish that people would use a different word. BMR has chosen to express a desire to be more welcoming to people. I've expressed how they can do that for people like me. If you do not share BMR's desire, do not follow my advice. Do not change your language. This thread was placed in this forum intentionally, after consulting with BMR staff, because it is not a suggestion for a change to BMR policy. BMR doesn't have banned words or language. I'm not advocating for a change to that.

As a statement for future posts in this conversation: As much as I appreciate that I am able to block people and ignore content, that is not the point I am trying to make. I'm not making this post because I am upset personally. I am, don't get me wrong, but it's not the reason I wrote this. I wrote this to express that the language used by this community could be objectifying to people like me, and that the community might be served by changing that. Blocking people serves me, yes. It does not serve every other trans person who comes to the site in the future.

So...while you might not be asking for a change to the codified rules of the site, nor are you asking for formal policing of language used by all writers who visit here...you are asking everyone to change their language.

Let me be clear: while I completely agree that you have the right to feel comfortable here, so does everyone else. Your asking others to change their language to be more inclusive to you could be interpreted as infringing on the comfortable speech of others.

 

[Father Figure]

I think there is quite a bit of projection. Projection concerning what people are thinking, what their intentions are, and what their meaning happens to be. I am not going to address in any manner this thread in particular, or the subject matter, but I will say I have seen several in this thread performing some pretty impressive mental leaps of logic and mind reading to know why someone has a fetish, to know what someone's thoughts happen to be, and to even remotely understand why people do what they do.

Also, one topic I will comment on. It's mind numbing to even imagine a person thinks goblins are somehow related to Jewish heritage simply because of Harry Potter and some piss poor research on the subject. Do let me know how the Japanese goblin, the Tengu, are related to Jews? Or the numerous other instances of goblins throughout folklore which are often the reference for fictionalized fantasy races? Wikipedia does a better job of research.