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Thoughts on Trump

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Ivory11

Star
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Location
Australia
we all know Donald Trump is running for office in the U.S, and we all know he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. now, you don't become a multi-billionaire by being an idiot redneck like he's been acting like, claiming to want to "ban muslims" and all this other assorted lunacy. to be a billionaire, and to run a successful multinational corporation aren't things you can do without being able to forge strong economic international ties, so why would he be doing all of this? wouldn't his partners in the Middle East be cutting their ties to him thus damaging his business? personally, I think Trump is working an angle here, and when he makes his final play, I dunno what it could be, but I have a feeling it's gonna be something HUGE that's gonna put egg on the face of literally everyone, both those who hate him and those who vote for him.

Personally, I think Trump is the perfect example of a display of how broken the American system and society has become, literally ANYONE can run for office these days, this election has been a cluster-fuck beyond comprehension, every idiot has been making their way out of the woodwork to put up their candidacy. and when the time comes, who's actually gonna vote for him? it's clear he's not trying to earn votes, so what's his angle? I think when the time comes he's gonna find the "holy grail" of voter bases, those who are defined as both "poor" and "stupid" and he's gonna buy them. simple as that, and when the election is over, he's probably gonna do a public address from one of his many private island mansions calling out everyone on their stupidity and the overall bullshit that this Election has become, he's gonna expose the farce the Republican party has become and expose the left for the sheep they too have become.

what do you think?
 

November

Super-Earth
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
It makes me laugh.

We're 70 years removed from internment camps, 50 years removed from Selma, 40 years removed from Nixon, 10 years removed from the Iraq War, and LaQuan McDonald got shot literally just last month and liberals are still aghast that the world isn't magically becoming more tolerant because "it's 2015!"... as long as there are human beings with emotions and free elections there are going to be people who are somewhere between suspicious and hateful of people with different races, genders, religions, whatever else, and they're always going to be on the razor's edge of getting into power if they don't have it already.

So, never be surprised this kind of stuff is popular in America, it always will be.

Add in the fact that Trump himself is extremely charismatic and entertaining (everyone interested in politics or even public speaking should watch a couple of his rallies on YouTube), and that people are disillusioned about corruption and money in politics, and his appeal shouldn't be a surprise to anybody paying attention.

Anyway.

Do I think Donald Trump genuinely believes 100% of what he's saying? Mmmm, most of it (although he's exaggerating some for negotiation purposes). If he was just being a lizard person and sucking up to Republicans, no way he would stick up for Planned Parenthood even lightly, or support universal healthcare. He's 70, he's richer than God, he genuinely believes he's smarter than any politician, he's succeeded in business and entertainment. There's almost nothing left for him to do in life, so why wouldn't he run for President? He's been talking about it since the 80's. Now or never.

I also think he's going to give Hillary Clinton fits if he wins this nomination. He's fast on his feet, comes off as genuine, he's anti-establishment, basically puts a magnifying glass on Hillary's main weaknesses.

Yeah, he can win. It's going to be extremely close.
 

Zeth

Supernova
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Location
RI, USA
According to the constitution, any man born in the US, is 35 year or older, and lived here the past 10 years consecutively can try to get into the electoral college and run for president. The fact a person who has never been a Senator, or held any sort of political office before now is running for president and backed by a party is scary.

I keep having flash backs to Brewster's Millions where Richard Pryor's character ran for Mayor as a way to waste money. His campaign slogan as "Check none of the above!" Much to his surprise he won the election and Richard Pryor's character says," I wasn't supposed to get elected. This was a joke." He then walks off annoyed. I think Ivory11 is on to something here about Trump's presidential run.
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
I'm not a Trump fan. Yes I like his boldness and some of his ideas. But I'm not a supporter. However. I am kind of tired of career politicians. I am sick of how elections are more of a circus than anything else. I do like how all of the established parties seem to hate him.

And trump running and doing fairly well actually shows how the system isn't completely broken. It was set up so anyone that meets the requirements can run. Not just career politicians that haven't had a real job in decades if ever.
 

shrillowl

Moon
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Location
Southeast US
I think that, if (and that's a pretty slim "if") he makes the popular vote, he won't make the electoral vote, because he's already shown that he doesn't cater to opinion on Capitol Hill. That's provided that he makes the Republican nomination.

However, if he gets the popular and not the electoral, there will most likely be some kind of grassroots movement to change that policy. That might be his angle, to become a force of policy change, for good or ill.

At least, that's what the little magic 8 ball tells me.
 

Jeufufns

Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Location
germany
Trump wants to "restrict" muslims, keep them under surveillance, mark them as such, build a wall against mexico, forbid travelling into america and certain jobs for muslims

Hitler wants to "restrict" jews, keep them under surveillance, mark them as such, build concentration camps for them, forbid jobs and travelling for jews

just saying
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
As I've said before. I am no Trump supporter. However if it came down to voting for him or Clinton my vote would go to him.

And I think you misread what I said. There IS legal precedence for what he proposes. And from what I've gathered. He isn't talking about all Muslims in the country. But rather legal resident aliens and refugees. Yeah he might be talking about keeping a watchful eye on Muslims that are citizens. But I do not believe he is talking about forcing them into specific jobs. That would be reserved for people seeking citizenship. Which has been done before.

During WWII the Fed did restrict entry into this country. They stopped people from the countries we were at war with from entering. Which makes sense. When you're at war with someone you don't want them making a home in your back yard. And make no mistake. We are at war with radical Islam.
 

Jeufufns

Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Location
germany
radical islam is 1 darn % of islam does that mean we need to block of all muslims? No In WWII most of the country if we take germany as an example was completely infected by Nazi ideology, of course we wouldn't allow entry. But 1%! 1% is not something that should influence the other 99%. Less than a million ISIS fighters don't have the say on tens of millions of muslims.

And why does everyone hate Clinton? Literally everywhere I go it's just, "Yeah I'ma vote trump instead of Clinton cause he's openly evil and Hillary hides it" (I literally got that fucking response once.)

Personally I'll vote for Sanders so I have a completely neutral opinion of Hillary and I don't understand why everyone's raging about Hillary while Trump has all the scandals and the other republicans too from time to time.
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Only ten percent of germans were Nazis. And the percentage of radical Muslims varies depending on the source you quote. Some say one percent. Others say ten. Some say forty. Most agree that it is somewhere between five and ten percent. Say it is only one percent. How many radicals make it into the country if you let a hundred thousand refugees in?

As to voting for Trump over Clinton? I don't think Trump is evil. Maybe misguided but not evil. Hillary is down right criminal.
 

SweetKissHardBite

Super-Earth
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Location
Somewhere far, far away...
kaigen said:
As to voting for Trump over Clinton? I don't think Trump is evil. Maybe misguided but not evil. Hillary is down right criminal.
That is pretty much hitting the nail in the head, if half the stuff I heard is twice as much as what she has done, she should still go the jail and pronto, plus, she kinda hates on people for no reason
 

Squishypink

Supernova
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Trump is a complicated issue. On the one hand, he's a hot mess and he always has been. We're just seeing it now in HD ultra smell-o-vision. But we know that he has legitimate business acumen, that he knows how to assemble a crack team to get things done, and that he's kind of a nutjob as most billionaires seem to be; it's apparently part of being the 1%. Now, we have all his intolerance and his bigotry, which could be an angle he's working or it could be genuine. Either way, if he oversteps in pushing some legislation that's unconstitutional (see the aforementioned bigotry), the US Supreme Court will eventually strike down that law. It may take time, but the system can self-correct.

On the plus side, he's a nutjob. An outright nutjob. How many of our most effective presidents (effective, not "politically correct and morally acceptable") were total nuts? Andrew Jackson is a great example. History will remember him both as the driver of western expansion that helped turn America into a global power, and a hyper-violent genocidal douchebag. The closer you look at our greatest presidents, the more you learn that these were some real dicks in their own right. So being a giant tool doesn't mean that Trump couldn't be a great POTUS. On the contrary, I think it suggests that he might have the right stuff to be one of the greats. The really great presidents all took actions that we would never think to see in today's government. Dueling, beating men half to death with canes, threats and ultimatums, playing nuclear chicken with the Reds. And then you look at our Congress today and you see these windbags flushing the country down the toilet by blocking every piece of legislation they can, on both sides of the aisle. If we brought Andrew Jackson back as president, he would have walked into Congress during the latest budget deadlock, murdered a senator in cold blood just to show he was serious, and then ordered the doors chained shut, denying them food, water or bathrooms until they had agreed on a fair and balanced budget.

In short, I think that what America needs right now is a cowboy. Hillary is just another crooked politician, so she isn't doing anything special for the country if she gets elected. Sanders has great ideas, but the GOP will stall out the votes in Congress *yet again* just to be dicks and Sanders will never get anything done. Trump? Trump is a wild card. He might actually get something done, the crazy fuck.
 

Squishypink

Supernova
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Jeufufns said:
radical islam is 1 darn % of islam does that mean we need to block of all muslims? No In WWII most of the country if we take germany as an example was completely infected by Nazi ideology, of course we wouldn't allow entry. But 1%! 1% is not something that should influence the other 99%. Less than a million ISIS fighters don't have the say on tens of millions of muslims.

And why does everyone hate Clinton? Literally everywhere I go it's just, "Yeah I'ma vote trump instead of Clinton cause he's openly evil and Hillary hides it" (I literally got that fucking response once.)

Personally I'll vote for Sanders so I have a completely neutral opinion of Hillary and I don't understand why everyone's raging about Hillary while Trump has all the scandals and the other republicans too from time to time.
Heya, I work over in the Middle East doing security work. I can't really say much because they monitor my internet usage, but please try to understand that it's more than just a "1% bad apples" issue. The anti-America sentiment has a lot of deep roots over here, even among our allies. I've seen some shit, even among the regular general population, that makes me worry about any plans to settle large numbers of refugees. Again, I can't go into detail.
 

Jeufufns

Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Location
germany
nutjobs are very efficient you're absolutely correct on that point. My problem is do I want nothing to be changed (though technically Sanders has been working against the bigotry of the 1% which probably means he'll get shot at some point) or things changed for the worse as in trump's case.

Putin is supporting trump right now which I find incredibly funny. Not cause trump is everything russia hates about the west but because how Russia profits from trump being president. It'll practically force muslim countries that formerly opposed Russia due to Chechnya to side with Russia. At least that's something to celebrate....
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Yeah there's many different types of 1% I figured those were the ones she was referencing. I just found the bigotry comment a little humorous.
 

Forbidden Fruit

Board-certified Bad Bitch
Designer
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Squishypink said:
Jeufufns said:
radical islam is 1 darn % of islam does that mean we need to block of all muslims? No In WWII most of the country if we take germany as an example was completely infected by Nazi ideology, of course we wouldn't allow entry. But 1%! 1% is not something that should influence the other 99%. Less than a million ISIS fighters don't have the say on tens of millions of muslims.

And why does everyone hate Clinton? Literally everywhere I go it's just, "Yeah I'ma vote trump instead of Clinton cause he's openly evil and Hillary hides it" (I literally got that fucking response once.)

Personally I'll vote for Sanders so I have a completely neutral opinion of Hillary and I don't understand why everyone's raging about Hillary while Trump has all the scandals and the other republicans too from time to time.
Heya, I work over in the Middle East doing security work. I can't really say much because they monitor my internet usage, but please try to understand that it's more than just a "1% bad apples" issue. The anti-America sentiment has a lot of deep roots over here, even among our allies. I've seen some shit, even among the regular general population, that makes me worry about any plans to settle large numbers of refugees. Again, I can't go into detail.
I agree with you that the Middle East seem predominantly anti-American, but given that the discussion is about Muslims, I'll have to ask, do you think feeling "anti-American" is institutionalized in the religion itself? Because I know that there are sizable Christian and Jewish minorities in the Middle East who do share that negative view of America.

I personally believe it is purely political. Feeling anti-American is a global phenomena, actually. The US is very unpopular in the world just like Israel, North Korea, Iran and Iraq. It isn't exclusive to the Middle East, let alone Islam. With all the warfare going on in the Middle East, I feel it is natural for people to be patriotic and act with hostility towards foreign powers. Religion is often used a means of rallying people, but I doubt the teachings/scripture itself promote hate. That's why I feel western Muslims shouldn't be treated the same as those from war-torn countries.

As for the refugees, I can't say exactly what is ought to be done with them. I do see why some can be fearful of terrorism, yet I do think it is blown out of proportions sometimes. Fixing what's wrong with this country starts by addressing problems for what they are. It is a waste of time, hypocritical even, to turn to 1% of the population who are responsible for .5% of the shootings and blame them for everything. There should be more gun control laws to protect people from people, regardless of the motives. Anyone, just google statistics about terrorism and mass shootings in the US and you'll be surprised how little influence religion has on the matter.

As for ISIS, the world isn't serious about taking them down. Syria is now a chess game with multiple sides fighting and each side is backed by a collection of foreign powers. The direct interference of these foreign powers in Syria's affairs is done under the pretense of fighting ISIS. That's why you'll see Russia pretending to be there mainly to fight ISIS but will spend most of its weaponry against Assad's enemies. That's why Turkey will tell you its there to fight ISIS but it is there to fight its own enemies, the Kurds. The US allies will tell you it is there to fight ISIS but in truth most of the efforts are done against Iran's allies and Assad's regime. It is like a mini world war there and ISIS is the perfect cover. They all want ISIS down but last; after the others are taken down as well.

Why else are they still there? Saddam Hussein had a very strong and experienced army, local support, regional support, a fucking country, and was taken down in weeks. ISIS is a bunch of bearded guys with explosives-stuffed asses and they have been operating for years now.

I'm not here to debate, just sharing my opinion so if I don't reply back to comments please don't take it personally. I just have many Muslim friends so it pains me to see them all painted with the same brush.
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
I would have to say hatred for others is ingrained in their religious texts. Just like it is in most other religions. Its just that moderates do much the same as modern Christians do. They ignore the parts of their religious texts that they don't agree with.
 

Squishypink

Supernova
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
@Forbidden Fruit: I have traveled extensively over the last few years and thanks to my job I have the chance to experience lots of different countries and cultures. And I have never seen an American flag being burned or felt any anti-american vibes anywhere I went, except from this one religion. It's members of the clergy that are spreading the hate, and within the religious context it is very institutionalized to hate America.

Everyone else out there that I have met were very kind and welcoming to Americans as long as you didn't act like a typical American (read: big dumb animal). I've spent evenings hanging out with Russians and Iranians and Japanese and Frenchmen and ze Germanz and nobody has had any political problems with the US. Despite what the media wants you to believe, we are quite welcome around the world and Obama has actually repaired a lot of our relationships abroad, precisely through the humility and compromise for which he takes so much flack at home.

So back on point, the refugee situation is still a hot mess but the possibility of zealots mixed in as infiltrators is very real. Idk if Trump is right to ban all muslims from entering.

Here's a thought: Is Trump the type of guy to send in ground troops? Airstrikes are very plainly not working, no matter how much ISIS is crippled they only need to put a couple guys with guns in a boat and float over to mainland Europe if they want to kill Westerners. At some point, the focus would need to switch to a ground game to get rid of these guys.
 

Jeufufns

Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Location
germany
Forbidden Fruit said:
Squishypink said:
Jeufufns said:
radical islam is 1 darn % of islam does that mean we need to block of all muslims? No In WWII most of the country if we take germany as an example was completely infected by Nazi ideology, of course we wouldn't allow entry. But 1%! 1% is not something that should influence the other 99%. Less than a million ISIS fighters don't have the say on tens of millions of muslims.

And why does everyone hate Clinton? Literally everywhere I go it's just, "Yeah I'ma vote trump instead of Clinton cause he's openly evil and Hillary hides it" (I literally got that fucking response once.)

Personally I'll vote for Sanders so I have a completely neutral opinion of Hillary and I don't understand why everyone's raging about Hillary while Trump has all the scandals and the other republicans too from time to time.
Heya, I work over in the Middle East doing security work. I can't really say much because they monitor my internet usage, but please try to understand that it's more than just a "1% bad apples" issue. The anti-America sentiment has a lot of deep roots over here, even among our allies. I've seen some shit, even among the regular general population, that makes me worry about any plans to settle large numbers of refugees. Again, I can't go into detail.
I agree with you that the Middle East seem predominantly anti-American, but given that the discussion is about Muslims, I'll have to ask, do you think feeling "anti-American" is institutionalized in the religion itself? Because I know that there are sizable Christian and Jewish minorities in the Middle East who do share that negative view of America.

I personally believe it is purely political. Feeling anti-American is a global phenomena, actually. The US is very unpopular in the world just like Israel, North Korea, Iran and Iraq. It isn't exclusive to the Middle East, let alone Islam. With all the warfare going on in the Middle East, I feel it is natural for people to be patriotic and act with hostility towards foreign powers. Religion is often used a means of rallying people, but I doubt the teachings/scripture itself promote hate. That's why I feel western Muslims shouldn't be treated the same as those from war-torn countries.

As for the refugees, I can't say exactly what is ought to be done with them. I do see why some can be fearful of terrorism, yet I do think it is blown out of proportions sometimes. Fixing what's wrong with this country starts by addressing problems for what they are. It is a waste of time, hypocritical even, to turn to 1% of the population who are responsible for .5% of the shootings and blame them for everything. There should be more gun control laws to protect people from people, regardless of the motives. Anyone, just google statistics about terrorism and mass shootings in the US and you'll be surprised how little influence religion has on the matter.

As for ISIS, the world isn't serious about taking them down. Syria is now a chess game with multiple sides fighting and each side is backed by a collection of foreign powers. The direct interference of these foreign powers in Syria's affairs is done under the pretense of fighting ISIS. That's why you'll see Russia pretending to be there mainly to fight ISIS but will spend most of its weaponry against Assad's enemies. That's why Turkey will tell you its there to fight ISIS but it is there to fight its own enemies, the Kurds. The US allies will tell you it is there to fight ISIS but in truth most of the efforts are done against Iran's allies and Assad's regime. It is like a mini world war there and ISIS is the perfect cover. They all want ISIS down but last; after the others are taken down as well.

Why else are they still there? Saddam Hussein had a very strong and experienced army, local support, regional support, a fucking country, and was taken down in weeks. ISIS is a bunch of bearded guys with explosives-stuffed asses and they have been operating for years now.

I'm not here to debate, just sharing my opinion so if I don't reply back to comments please don't take it personally. I just have many Muslim friends so it pains me to see them all painted with the same brush.
ISIS is a product of american foreign policies, the same foreign policies that make them unpopular in the middle east, the same policies that made us arm Al-Qaeda until they turned on us, arm Saddam Hussein yntil we had enough of him and arm the FSA until they pledged alliance to ISIS. America is brilliant at making things go haywire and destroying systems but sadly they're more than unable to build them up again.

Russia is actually very diverse in who they bomb. They do bomb Assad's enemies which is something they like to rub in our faces in the west because it's so hip and trendy to hate Russia. Russia is currently focusing on indirectly harming ISIS, namely bombing the trade routes with Turkey etc. So they can't sell their oil anymore.

Pretty much agree with everything else.....
 

kaigen

Super-Earth
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
I think you're a little off in why Isis exists. It seems like you've only listened to rhetoric instead of actually studying up on the facts. Isis started under a different name in the late 80s when our foreign policy was a bit different. It has very little to do with our policies.
 
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