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A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Which house do you belong to?


  • Total voters
    39
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

DeRe said:
Well they killed off my favorite character (although to be honest I always knew that was coming); then they totally messed up my backup favorite character (seriously he's like a cutprice version of the real thing); so henceforth I renounce all Houses and swear allegiance to R'hllor, god of hottie priestesses, sex magic, and sharp scarlet outfits. For the night is dark and full of terrors! Also they seem really cool with you being kind of drunk and useless, which works for me.


I agree completely with both! Especially goofing up you know who. Can't even get the guy an eyepatch? Come on now. I was really looking forward to the Pyke scene. And while it was OK, the dialog was a bit Hollywood, and if anything not as cool as was in the books. But ahh, I digress. Enjoy your new allegiance! XD
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

What a waste. Why kill Summer like they did? Hodor was cool. Summer... just seems like they didn't want to pay the CGI budget for a wolf they have barely shown anyway. Hodor's thing was cool, great even. I love the sudden realization that literally everyone had -- it makes sense. I saw some theories that Hodor experienced his own death there in that epileptic, stroke type thing.

That's crazy.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Interesting episode tonight! Would love to hear your thoughts. We only have 4 more episodes left...
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

In a sense, I dislike how they're going back to events they had skipped before, like the whole Blackfish-Riverrun battle. I do appreciate they're throwing Sansa in the mix though because she had nothing to do with it in the books. I feel the battle will carry out as it went in the books and Sansa will just reunite with her mother's uncle later.

Arya's story took a turn I never saw coming, which in itself was a pleasant surprise. I was looking forward for a badass ninja Arya. Now, it looks like we're bound to see her run away from badass ninjas, unless they somehow forgive her. I really don't see her dying anytime soon anyways. Didn't they say faceless men were expensive? How can a simple actress afford to hire one?

I've stopped caring about Dani's story because it became really predictable. Especially as I'm reading the fifth book now.

Coldhands was shown as Benjen, which was anticipated. It was a mix of fan service and desire to reduce casting. They always done that. Mix a few characters into one or take off minor characters.

I'm loving whatever is happening in King's Landing with the militias. Kind of curious to see how it would affect Loras.

Jaime is slowly seeming more irrelevant in the story. Unless they find him an interesting role, I can see him dying later. Well, he only has this role to play in Riverrun and it looks like they gave it to Walder Frey. Also hoping to finally see Lady Stoneheart. I'm a bit optimistic about it too since they mentioned the brotherhood without banners in the episode.

I also find the scarcity of Littlefinger and Varys this season disturbing.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

This season overall has been terrible. I mean really all over the place as far as plots and character development and pacing. However, last night's episode was incredible, and damn near made up for all the bullshit this season put us through.

There is wildfire under the Sept of Baelor? Hmm, I wonder if that is related to the info that Qyburn's little birds dug up.
Dany X Yara!!!!!! Pirate queen and mother of dragons, yes these two need to bang on the Iron throne.
Rickon, you gotta zig zag my boy. Poor little guy.
Jon knows nothing, but was still awesome.
Sansa showing up fifteen minutes late to the battle with Starbucks and a Vale army. XP
WUN WUN!!!!
Where can I purchase Bolton flavor dog chow?
Tormund lives! I am so rooting for that Tormund X Brienne ship now.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Best episode of the season.

No, the series.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Jon Snow kinda sucks at war, and Davos Seaworth isn't much better.

So Snow has an outnumbered force, with basically no suitable weapons, and decides to meet Ramsay on the field. At the very least his idea of goading Ramsay was a good one. He even picked a decent defensive position, where the forests could have been used as cover against Bolton arrows and cavalry charge. Obviously the battle goes wrong, as he falls for Ramsay's calculated ploy to lure him into making a reckless and stupid charge. I'd easily argue that Bolton wouldn't have even needed to do it, but effective nonetheless.

So Jon loses his damned mind, and charges the Bolton cavalry by his lonesome. Davos sacrifices the linchpin in any maneuver the Snow forces hopes to make by sending out the cavalry to charge into the Bolton cavalry. Already the battle is destined to fail. Jon allows himself to get bogged down in the fighting, his forces engaged in messy and hectic melee. At this point he should have withdrew from battle, sounded the retreat, and reformed his lines. Ramsey's tactic of pelting the melee with arrows did work effectively to keep the Snow forces exactly where they were, however. Retreating forces would have taken an arrow to the back, but they would have had a better shot at surviving than being completely broken and helpless before the advancing, Bolton infantry.

You might think that the big, bad horses were the worst thing on the battlefield. Tormund comments that the enemy cavalry was what he feared the most on the battlefield, because how the wildling forces were cut down on the other side of the wall. What he failed to understand is that the most effective part of any army during this age is the infantry. In a shield wall formation the Bolton troops are damn near invincible from the front. The show aptly displayed how effective and deadly it can be. Even a veteran, skilled soldier has a poor chance of actually penetrating it-- Tormund got sliced up for trying. Jon's primary concern should have been these troops, and his entire strategy should have been about flanking them.

Then again, he probably went into battle with like no real intelligence on the Bolton formations.

Alright, so there's a horrible melee. While this was happening, Davos should have had some mind to divert some of his troops to flank around the enemy. At the very least it could have distracted Bolton's forces, or diverted some of the Bolton reserves away. Instead he orders a suicidal charge to join the fray. I can't blame him too much, because nothing would have been a super great idea at this point. No matter what he did, Bolton reserves would have swooped in to end the battle. Instead, Jon should have had the presence of mind to retreat as quickly as possible. Even tired his men would have been able to outrun the heavy, shield baring infantry that the Bolton's sent to EASILY take the rear of the broken Snow line.

If they could have regrouped in the forest, directly behind their initial point of deployment, they would have had a much better chance. The shield wall would have been less effective in the forest, especially with the Bolton cavalry out of commission. The Wildlings would have been more at home fighting among the trees as well. Would it have been a victory? I don't know, but it would have been a better idea than just slugging it out against a larger, better equipped force on the open field.

The entire battle was lost because of Jon. If it wasn't for Sansa's quick, desperate thinking then all would have been lost. Now Littlefinger is a punk-ass weasel, so I'm sure his help will come with a price at some point, but Sansa saved them all for now.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Mitsu said:
Jon Snow kinda sucks at war, and Davos Seaworth isn't much better.

So Snow has an outnumbered force, with basically no suitable weapons, and decides to meet Ramsay on the field. At the very least his idea of goading Ramsay was a good one. He even picked a decent defensive position, where the forests could have been used as cover against Bolton arrows and cavalry charge. Obviously the battle goes wrong, as he falls for Ramsay's calculated ploy to lure him into making a reckless and stupid charge. I'd easily argue that Bolton wouldn't have even needed to do it, but effective nonetheless.

So Jon loses his damned mind, and charges the Bolton cavalry by his lonesome. Davos sacrifices the linchpin in any maneuver the Snow forces hopes to make by sending out the cavalry to charge into the Bolton cavalry. Already the battle is destined to fail. Jon allows himself to get bogged down in the fighting, his forces engaged in messy and hectic melee. At this point he should have withdrew from battle, sounded the retreat, and reformed his lines. Ramsey's tactic of pelting the melee with arrows did work effectively to keep the Snow forces exactly where they were, however. Retreating forces would have taken an arrow to the back, but they would have had a better shot at surviving than being completely broken and helpless before the advancing, Bolton infantry.

You might think that the big, bad horses were the worst thing on the battlefield. Tormund comments that the enemy cavalry was what he feared the most on the battlefield, because how the wildling forces were cut down on the other side of the wall. What he failed to understand is that the most effective part of any army during this age is the infantry. In a shield wall formation the Bolton troops are damn near invincible from the front. The show aptly displayed how effective and deadly it can be. Even a veteran, skilled soldier has a poor chance of actually penetrating it-- Tormund got sliced up for trying. Jon's primary concern should have been these troops, and his entire strategy should have been about flanking them.

Then again, he probably went into battle with like no real intelligence on the Bolton formations.

Alright, so there's a horrible melee. While this was happening, Davos should have had some mind to divert some of his troops to flank around the enemy. At the very least it could have distracted Bolton's forces, or diverted some of the Bolton reserves away. Instead he orders a suicidal charge to join the fray. I can't blame him too much, because nothing would have been a super great idea at this point. No matter what he did, Bolton reserves would have swooped in to end the battle. Instead, Jon should have had the presence of mind to retreat as quickly as possible. Even tired his men would have been able to outrun the heavy, shield baring infantry that the Bolton's sent to EASILY take the rear of the broken Snow line.

If they could have regrouped in the forest, directly behind their initial point of deployment, they would have had a much better chance. The shield wall would have been less effective in the forest, especially with the Bolton cavalry out of commission. The Wildlings would have been more at home fighting among the trees as well. Would it have been a victory? I don't know, but it would have been a better idea than just slugging it out against a larger, better equipped force on the open field.

The entire battle was lost because of Jon. If it wasn't for Sansa's quick, desperate thinking then all would have been lost. Now Littlefinger is a punk-ass weasel, so I'm sure his help will come with a price at some point, but Sansa saved them all for now.


It might have been stupid to go try and save Rickon, but that's just the man Jon is. As for charging Ramsay, he didn't have a choice. The arrows kept him from going back, the only way to avoid them was forwards.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

The problem wasn't that Jon went for Ricken. The ploy wasn't to just put him in the middle of the battlefield. The objective was the enrage Jon and force him to charge after Ramsay like a doofus. Jon had PLENTY of time to turn his horse around and make back for his own lines, but instead he charged forward and pressed the matter to Ramsay's favor. His chances of making it back to his troops was FAR higher than running towards the enemy, who were planning on it-- remember it's what Ramsay wanted and had planned for. His horse gets hit anyway, he endangers the bulk of his troops, and proceeds to find himself in a prime position to be slaughtered. Sansa told him not to play into Ramsay's hands, and that Ricken was a goner. She warned him, but he went and tried to play the hero anyway. The result was hundreds of men being slaughtered, and almost being crushed underfoot by his own panicked, shattered troops.

It's an absolutely embarrassing military defeat, and would have made Jon a laughing stock for decades if not for Sansa's reinforcements. The entire battle went Ramsay's way, except for Sansa's timely actions. Somehow Sansa is now a more competent leader than Jon Snow. She knew the reality of the situation, and knew that it was foolish to gamble everything in a orthodox battle against the Bolton forces on the open field. The bulk of his force were wildlings, who have little to no experience in the kind of warfare that the Ramsay Bolton obviously specializes in.

The fact that Jon never bothered to put his troops in the forest behind him is super telling. His entire infantry should have been behind the treeline, and his cavalry positioned off on a flank. It isn't like he had heavy cavalry to begin with. They were very clearly light cavalry, and the way they were instantly wiped out in the first charge is telling of the fact.

I get it though. Game of Thrones isn't a show that has ever pretended to be well versed in these matters. I'm just nit-picking the show, because it was the most interesting scene of the season.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

I think Jon's greatest tactical blunder was not giving Wun-Wun the Giant a bloody big stick! Couldn't they have chopped down a tree and given it to the big fellah to use as a club? That shieldwall wouldn't have lasted five minutes then! And perhaps they could have used one of the doors from Castle Black to make a shield for him. He was a literally massive asset and they completely wasted him! Of course, the narrative demanded it, silly as it may be.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

DeRe said:
I think Jon's greatest tactical blunder was not giving Wun-Wun the Giant a bloody big stick! Couldn't they have chopped down a tree and given it to the big fellah to use as a club? That shieldwall wouldn't have lasted five minutes then! And perhaps they could have used one of the doors from Castle Black to make a shield for him. He was a literally massive asset and they completely wasted him! Of course, the narrative demanded it, silly as it may be.

lol You're totally right.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

I believe they submitted this for an Emmy. For like, every category. And let me say... The cinametography and directing for this episode was well done.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Absolutely amazing finale.

So many character deaths. Some of them took me by surprise, like Tommen's. I thought he'd at least live to die next season or something haha.

I personally feel the story is converging back into the books now. At least the parts I've read.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

This best last week's episode. Somehow. So tense.
 
RE: Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones Discussion (Spoiler alerts)

Forbidden Fruit said:
Absolutely amazing finale.

So many character deaths. Some of them took me by surprise, like Tommen's. I thought he'd at least live to die next season or something haha.

I personally feel the story is converging back into the books now. At least the parts I've read.


I agree!

Did NOT SEE THAT SUCIDE COMING! I secretly had hoped Tommen was somehow, weirdly in on it, but guess not. Cersei at this point, has completely accepted the prophecy (a lack of mourning of Tommen) and has no children to hold back whatever sanity she had left.

Wow, Cersei is Darth Cersei, officially! Insane. I absolutely loved the music in this episode as well. A very haunting episode. And time traveling Varys and Arya, at it again!

Also, I'm finally interested in Dorne. Because of Lady Ollena. Thank goodness for that woman. She saved it.

Did anyone catch the Dawn Sword resting up against the towel of blood? A little Azor Ahai reference there in the Tower of Dorne scene? Also well done and about damn time.

And the ending with the ships. Again. About time, haha!

A fitting close to the season. I was a little worried about it too, but the last couple of episodes really made up for that.
 
Meeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

I'm so freaking excited. Omg.

Cersei on the throne.

Daenerys finally making it to Westeros. (AND perhaps the first sight of Dragonstone!!!!)

The Starks are finally back at Winterfell.

What are the Greyjoy's up to????

So mannyyyy questions.
 
I'm so excited to see Dragonstone, too. We only saw specific parts of it with Stannis, so I look forward to it!
 
For sure! I'm definitely looking forward to what will happen. I'm low-key hoping for some more flashbacks, but I don't know how many we'll get.
 
I really did enjoy the flashbacks last season, and felt they left it somewhat unfinished in the old flashback. I want to see more of young Ned!
 
I agree that it felt somewhat unfinished; a reason they did on purpose, I hope. And yes, more young Ned! Maybe even some young Robert Baratheon, some more Lyanna and of course, some Rhaegar Targaryen. (But I'm asking too much...)
 
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