should incest be legal?

[incestlover]

who thinks that incest should be legal?

 

[LoveOrLust]

If it's consensual I think it should be legal. Everyone is up in arms about people telling people who they can't love, whether they be gay or lesbian. I don't see much difference in consensual incest. If they're happy, leave them be.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

I really don't believe parents should want to have sex with their kids. They are your offspring to cherish and nurture. There are a lot of psychological reasons why that's pretty messed up.

Cousins aren't that bad because there is biological diversity and less chance of psychological damage to any potential offspring.

I'm against family unit incest. Otherwise, cousins are fine.

 

[Admiral Squish]

I think the issue with incest is twofold.
For one, in many cases the first indecent incident occurs when the child is much too young to be exposed to such things, too young to be able to give their consent. In such cases, incest can be extremely harmful to the child's development mentally. Especially where the instigator is an authority figure such as a father or an older relative.
for the other, there is the issue of mutation and recessive traits coming to the surface more often. This is a definite problem, and it's not something that can simply be dismissed, especially if incest becomes a 'family tradition', of sorts.

However, I think that consensual incest, with both partners over the age of consent, and proper contraceptives in place, should be legal.

 

[Cassandraks]

It is such a grey area, because there is so much psychological impact in there. I agree with Hahvoc, if it is in the family unit mother/father with their children even sibling ones. There is something else going on there, and it isn't just an oh I love you type thing. There is either a power struggle, or something more psychologically wrong and perhaps something worse happened in the past.

For just cousins, not directlly connected into the family. Like people who meet, didn't realize they were related and fall in love that is a bit different. But when it is something close family, there is something else going on in there.

Legality shouldn't come into it directly, but it is something that should be looked into.

I know around here it is more of a shock factor type kink, but in RL it is much much different no doubt.

 

[incestlover]

here is my opinion: first of all i see incestuous relations as no different than gays and lesbians or interracial. they have long been taboo and critisized and said it was wrong and discusting. but the worlds view on those are changing. if 2 people are in love then it is their decision to be in a relationship together and should be free to live their life as they choose, not how the rest of the world chooses.

secondly, if you are interested, you should do some research on the scientific facts about 2 relatives giving birth. you would be surprised to know that 2 people with the same background (2 white people or 2 black people etc) have a slightly higher % of giving birth to a baby with birth defects. while first cousins only have an extra like 3 or 3.5% higher chance of having a baby with birth defects. the lowest risk is people who are not related by blood and dont have the same background (1 white and 1 black or example).

the only reason why some people see it as gross or wrong, is only because thats what we have been led to believe and forced in fact to believe. there is plenty of countries in the world where no laws prohibiting incest in any form. while some others do prohibit laws against close relatives such as mother/father with their daughter/son etc but allow cousins. some countries that will even allow first cousins to get married.

so question is, if incest is so bad and wrong and gross and my most favorite "unnatural" then why is there other countries who allow it?
"unnatural" is my favorite because it was natural in fact in the beginning. how do you think 2 people populated an entire race? 2 people gave birth to kids and those kids in turn had to further procreation through incest. for a long time incest was not only popular it was more of a given. but one reason they put laws against incest was so people would have to mingle outside their family and be more sociable. another reason was to try and breed more better offspring.

 

[Cassandraks]

No one is really disputing the actually loving each other fact Incestlover, if that is truly the case all the more power to them to being together.

What I see you ignoring is the bad side of incest, the ones were it is the one side controlling the other pressuring them into doing this. Or even more so, when sexual abuse happens to one or both say like siblings and they only trust each other enough and no one else. Though that could be a loving relationship, it could be very unhealthy for them also. That is the part I cannot agree on, that is the part where things need to be looked into deeper. That is the true part that really bothers people about it.

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

The issue with birth defects doesn't really come into play with the first generation. It's generations of inbreeding and the dominance of traits that lead to said birth defects become more and more prevalent.

And I'm going to concur with Hahvy.

 

[Rave]

Forget all the defections and risks that comes with it, or even the issue of whether it's consensual or not.

Religion will never allow it to be legal. At least where most of us live. Try letting the U.S legalize gay marriage first, and I mean the whole country.

Try telling the Christian Majority that Incest should be legal, see what happens.

 

[Kara]

I don't think so for immediate family members. While you can throw around terms like consensual, remember that family is a big influence on you. So you can say it's consensual that a sister loves her brother, but given that he may be 10 years older, and he's decided from 16 thats the lifestyle he wants when she is legal, well he has 10 years in which to groom her and shape her life. Is that consensual if he does that? Not really, it's child grooming.

Then you have the abnormalities and things like this that come with reproduction.

I understand people enjoy the incest fantasy. But from what I can tell, in general the reality isn't very nice. It's very rare that you get two people thinking along the same lines and seems to be a much larger male fantasy than female and often results in rape or grooming. People say it's about love and that, but I don't see that, it's about sex. If you love a member of your family, then you let them grow and develop with your support and unconditional being there for them. Involving sex wouldn't end well for the most part.

On the other coin, should it be legal for cousins to marry? Sure. I wouldn't myself given that I'm close to my cousins, but I know friends who have had relationships with very distant cousins. I don't see an issue.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

Saying two people populated the planet is the Catholic lexicon.

However, Lilith was Adam's first wife, not Eve, so it wasn't two people if you're going to go with that logic.

Diversity makes the population grow and find stronger and stronger traits for survival. We're not like bacteria and other such things where we could inbreed for hundreds of years without any serious mutations.

And saying that incest is unnatural is a fact. It's not natural to want to have sex with your offspring. To see your kid grow up and go, "I wanna tap that."

Cousins, as they say, are the first friends you make besides siblings so it makes sense there would be fondness there but other than that, nope. Just can't agree with it.

 

[KarenNelson]

"unnatural" is my favorite because it was natural in fact in the beginning. how do you think 2 people populated an entire race? 2 people gave birth to kids and those kids in turn had to further procreation through incest. for a long time incest was not only popular it was more of a given. but one reason they put laws against incest was so people would have to mingle outside their family and be more sociable. another reason was to try and breed more better offspring.

Two people populated the entire human race? Source, please. And I mean peer-reviewed science, not religious texts.

 

[Dr. Nibbles]

I hate this forum because I always walk in with an opinion and then reading all your decent responses make me rethink my stance. I once had a fling with a cousin by marriage so I'd be hypocritical to claim that its wrong and should be illegal. I agree with Hahvy, Family Unit incest (brotherxsister, fatherxdaughter etc) Should be illegal but Cousin to cousin should be allowed as long as the relation is 2nd or later or possibly by marriage.

Playing devils advocate I think it should be illegal from the stance of over population. I'd rather block someone from being married then have to deal with a thousand more babies a second because finding someone to bop is a family reunion away. That and it honestly feels tacky. Like... come on... find a REAL girlfriend man. And think of what happens if it DOESNT work out. You're family will be thrown into turmoil. Is it worth one chick or man? Not to me. No one is worth destroying my family over.

Now Karen, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even if its based off religion or science or mother fucking Star Wars.

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

Nibbles brought up a point. There's all sorts of relationships people will have--- family, friend, professional, and romantic. A lot of people have a hard time mixing friendship and romance for fear of fucking up the bond they already have, and making it awkward. And if things don't work out things may never be the same. Perhaps people shouldn't mix family and romance. Family is already a strong bond on its own. You can fuck it up 4 lyfe if you choose to turn your relationship with a family member into something more and it ends up not working out. Family is blood and law, you can't get rid of them.

That's how I see family. Just... a no-go zone. They're family and that's all they should be.

Also sorry to sound rude, but the whole idea of a parent and child romance is just... I don't know, it feels unnatural to me. A parent and child bond is already one of the strongest. If it turns into something more, I might question the emotional and mental health of one or both of them. Is it the child failing to move on and separate themselves from their parent? Is it the parent failing to let go? Is it one or both of them trying to effortlessly fill a void they feel they can't fill elsewhere?

 

[incestlover]

Nibbles brought up a point. There's all sorts of relationships people will have--- family, friend, professional, and romantic. A lot of people have a hard time mixing friendship and romance for fear of fucking up the bond they already have, and making it awkward. And if things don't work out things may never be the same. Perhaps people shouldn't mix family and romance. Family is already a strong bond on its own. You can fuck it up 4 lyfe if you choose to turn your relationship with a family member into something more and it ends up not working out. Family is blood and law, you can't get rid of them.

That's how I see family. Just... a no-go zone. They're family and that's all they should be.

Also sorry to sound rude, but the whole idea of a parent and child romance is just... I don't know, it feels unnatural to me. A parent and child bond is already one of the strongest. If it turns into something more, I might question the emotional and mental health of one or both of them. Is it the child failing to move on and separate themselves from their parent? Is it the parent failing to let go? Is it one or both of them trying to effortlessly fill a void they feel they can't fill elsewhere?

See this is part of the reason I posted this. Cause people like that can state their opinion so profoundly. Good comments everyone! But just remember, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. We should also respect the next persons opinion, and the pprevious ones.
As for proof that someone asked for from me, no one has any proof of how the world was populated. I was going by the most popular one.

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

No, you shouldn't respect everyone's opinion. Some opinions are just fucking wrong, ethically or objectively. Lots of grey sure; but there's a few areas where there is very little defence.

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

But I think incest is one where there should be some gray area. But anyone who sees it as a legit option that should be respected at this point in society should expect some hostility with the concept. Yeah, a lot of societies practice in it, and it's been around for quite some time, but in our society it's one of the things that is generally frowned upon.

But Nihil too has a point. Some things are just unacceptable, and typically that is when it involves someone who can't give proper consent.

 

[Nihilistic_Impact]

I was speaking in a general sense, I just don't like the attitude that all opinions must be respected. This is a grey era predominately in my book though. Racial hatred based on whack science from a century ago, that's definitely wrong.

 

[KarenNelson]

Now Karen, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even if its based off religion or science or mother fucking Star Wars.

True. But as someone already pointed out, not all opinions are equal. So I was asking if the opinion in question was based on verifiable, peer-reviewed science, or religious dogma. The bearer of the opinion is entitled to it either way...but whether I take it seriously is another matter.

 

[KarenNelson]

As for proof that someone asked for from me, no one has any proof of how the world was populated. I was going by the most popular one.

Vox populi, then?

As for incest, I don't care for it. But I think government legislating morality is a perilous road. My major concern with incest (already raised by others) is the issue of power and consent. Family, especially elders, have great power over young people. The idea of children being conditioned and groomed to be sex partners of parents and uncles/aunts bothers me, and I think it's a legitimate concern.

I don't know what I'd do if I were queen. I think, however, I would legalize relations between cousins and siblings (age of consent would still apply). However, across generations, I'm not sure I would. If I did, I think I would make the age of consent 20 or even 21 for such relationships, because of the concerns discussed above and elsewhere.

 

[incestlover]

As for proof that someone asked for from me, no one has any proof of how the world was populated. I was going by the most popular one.

Vox populi, then?

As for incest, I don't care for it. But I think government legislating morality is a perilous road. My major concern with incest (already raised by others) is the issue of power and consent. Family, especially elders, have great power over young people. The idea of children being conditioned and groomed to be sex partners of parents and uncles/aunts bothers me, and I think it's a legitimate concern.

I don't know what I'd do if I were queen. I think, however, I would legalize relations between cousins and siblings (age of consent would still apply). However, across generations, I'm not sure I would. If I did, I think I would make the age of consent 20 or even 21 for such relationships, because of the concerns discussed above and elsewhere.

The minimum age to consume alcohol in the US is 21. The minimum age in canada is 19. Do you think that age restrictions or laws period stop people from doing what they want?

You don't have to like someones opinion but you should respect their right to having their own opinion.

As for the power an adult has over their child, there is plenty of relationships between one person in their 20's and the other is in their 40's or 50's or more. So I guess while we are at it, might as well make it illegal for them to be involved in a sexual relationsship too? Since one is 2 or 3 times the age of the other person.

 

[KarenNelson]

The minimum age to consume alcohol in the US is 21. The minimum age in canada is 19. Do you think that age restrictions or laws period stop people from doing what they want?

Yes, I understand the whole "Prohibition didn't stop drinking, therefore Prohibition was useless" argument. And I agree with it. To an extent. But that road runs both ways. Why not legalize robbery and murder, since some people break the law and rob and kill anyway? Why bother with laws against robbery and homicide?

I think the answer is obvious: there is a legitimate interest in using State power to diminish social ills in some areas, even if we've learned from history to choose these areas wisely and not over-legislate. Which is why I could support limited legalization of incest. Drawing a tighter, more constrained set of lines based on protection of minors from sexual exploitation--which is a goal I think most people would agree on--rather than a broader "squick" factor that's harder to defend objectively.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

Nibbles brought up a point. There's all sorts of relationships people will have--- family, friend, professional, and romantic. A lot of people have a hard time mixing friendship and romance for fear of fucking up the bond they already have, and making it awkward. And if things don't work out things may never be the same. Perhaps people shouldn't mix family and romance. Family is already a strong bond on its own. You can fuck it up 4 lyfe if you choose to turn your relationship with a family member into something more and it ends up not working out. Family is blood and law, you can't get rid of them.

That's how I see family. Just... a no-go zone. They're family and that's all they should be.

Also sorry to sound rude, but the whole idea of a parent and child romance is just... I don't know, it feels unnatural to me. A parent and child bond is already one of the strongest. If it turns into something more, I might question the emotional and mental health of one or both of them. Is it the child failing to move on and separate themselves from their parent? Is it the parent failing to let go? Is it one or both of them trying to effortlessly fill a void they feel they can't fill elsewhere?

See this is part of the reason I posted this. Cause people like that can state their opinion so profoundly. Good comments everyone! But just remember, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. We should also respect the next persons opinion, and the pprevious ones.
As for proof that someone asked for from me, no one has any proof of how the world was populated. I was going by the most popular one.

Really? On such a serious note, you'll use "opinion are like assholes so respect mine"? I don't have to respect your opinion, just note that you have one and I can dismiss it. That's the asshole part.

And using the "most popular" answer to something when it's not proven or disproven shows sheep mentality. Think for yourself.

The minimum age to consume alcohol in the US is 21. The minimum age in canada is 19. Do you think that age restrictions or laws period stop people from doing what they want?

You don't have to like someones opinion but you should respect their right to having their own opinion.

As for the power an adult has over their child, there is plenty of relationships between one person in their 20's and the other is in their 40's or 50's or more. So I guess while we are at it, might as well make it illegal for them to be involved in a sexual relationsship too? Since one is 2 or 3 times the age of the other person.

Family will always be completely different from meeting random people on the street that you happen to have a sexual attraction to. Age there doesn't matter because there is no blood between them. Just sex, which is natural for all animals, especially humans.

Age of consent was invented because random old men and women thought sex was cool with young people who didn't have the mental capacity to understand the ramifications of their actions or the mental impact it would have on their sexuality.

Leading into that, there are age laws for a reason: So stupid kids don't die at younger ages because they wanna be cool and drink alcohol like crazy, which they do sometimes because they have parents or older siblings who want to be "cool parents," and not actual parents.

There's also a difference between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy relationship.

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

As for proof that someone asked for from me, no one has any proof of how the world was populated. I was going by the most popular one.

Vox populi, then?

As for incest, I don't care for it. But I think government legislating morality is a perilous road. My major concern with incest (already raised by others) is the issue of power and consent. Family, especially elders, have great power over young people. The idea of children being conditioned and groomed to be sex partners of parents and uncles/aunts bothers me, and I think it's a legitimate concern.

I don't know what I'd do if I were queen. I think, however, I would legalize relations between cousins and siblings (age of consent would still apply). However, across generations, I'm not sure I would. If I did, I think I would make the age of consent 20 or even 21 for such relationships, because of the concerns discussed above and elsewhere.

The minimum age to consume alcohol in the US is 21. The minimum age in canada is 19. Do you think that age restrictions or laws period stop people from doing what they want?

You don't have to like someones opinion but you should respect their right to having their own opinion.

As for the power an adult has over their child, there is plenty of relationships between one person in their 20's and the other is in their 40's or 50's or more. So I guess while we are at it, might as well make it illegal for them to be involved in a sexual relationsship too? Since one is 2 or 3 times the age of the other person.

Pretty much like Hahvy said in her post, there is a HUGE difference between a parent and a child and a 20 year old boy and a 50 year old woman meeting on the street. A child doesn't need to greet you, get to know you, buy you a drink, or take you to dinner to make an undying bond and emotional effect on you. From the second that person pops out of the womb, they are automatically the most important person in the world to the parents (or well, hopefully). Their purpose in life is to care for that child, raise them, teach them, etc.

I think in all ways, that bond should never turn into something more or different.

A child is raised to reflect their parent(s). They usually grow up with the same beliefs, ideas, interests, morals, values, etc. Would it really be fair for a parent to get into a relationship with this child? They basically planted, grew, popped out, trained, and manipulated someone into being what they wanted them to be. Should it really end as a romantic interest? That just comes off incredibly unhealthy for both parties involved and unfair to the child.

 

[the.bard.incarnate]

For the record, I myself would never engage in incestuous activity willingly. That said, as long as it is consensual, I think it should be perfectly legal, regardless of degree of separation. However, I also think that laws should be put in place to prevent any sexual congress between family members that are too close resulting in a pregnancy. Too many horrifying problems develop when there isn't enough genetic diversity to produce complete viable offspring.

To the people who think, for example, that it is wrong for a parent to sexually desire their child... why? If their child is fully mature, and shares that desire? I mean, I can't envision ever feeling that way myself. But my guiding principle has always been "do what harms myself and others least and pleases myself and others most". By that logic, ANY TIME that ANY two (or more) people engage in sexual activity together, consensually, with a mind for (and actions to prevent) potential negative consequences, it's a good thing. Sex is pleasurable, physically and mentally rejuvenating, promotes emotional bonding between people, and helps to treat a host of minor ailments (nothing will clean out the sinuses like a good, hard, turn-you-inside-out orgasm, for example). And as long as diseases and unwanted (or non-viable) pregnancies are prevented, the potential negative consequences of sex amount to... well... can anyone even THINK of any? Because I can't.

Aside from all that, I just have a general objection to anyone not involved in my sex life telling me how I HAVE to live it. Nobody should have the right to tell you who you can and can't have sex with, so long as all acts engaged in are consensual and held between informed parties.