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Rape: the woman's fault?

So lets look at some statics about rape. Notice that the majority of rapists are someone that the victim knows and you're 4 times more likely to be raped if you're a college aged woman. Since most women know their attacker, that gets rid of the violent abduction in most of the cases of most women(not to say it doesn't happen). Since only about 6 percent of rapists see time in a jail cell that also points to your scenario of where a girl tells a guy to stop and he doesn't is extremely common.

(On a side note: If you have womans self defense classes in your area by all means take them. This is just the first link if you do a search for it.
Check out the site. Seriously it even looks fun.)

http://www.rainn.org/statistics


1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).1

17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1

9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003.2

While about 80% of all victims are white, minorities are somewhat more likely to be attacked.

93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6

* 34.2% of attackers were family members.
* 58.7% were acquaintances.
* Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim.

College age women are 4 times more likely to be sexually assaulted.

About Rapists

* Approximately 73% of rape victims know their assailants.
* Only 6% of rapists will ever spend a day in jail.
 
Alright, I'll get right on that! Sign myself up for classes, because any family members, friends, coworkers or anyone I see on a daily basis and know by name cannot be trusted not to fucking harm me because all they can think about is "DO WANT". Every family picnic, day on the job and waving to my neighbor as I walk to the mailbox is rife with violent promise now that I know the statistics and I'm so informed and empowered. Thanks.
 
I hate to tell you this but when you do training like that, it's not because you're paranoid about every person in the world it's so you know what to do if something does happen. Are you seriously trying to say that's a bad idea for a woman to learn basic self defense? If you did you just proved my point about that people are happy being victims. I can only hope that you don't represent the other women out there and you're showing why I sometimes lack faith in my fellow human beings.

Either way I'm done with this topic. You asked a question, I gave you my honest answer and that's that. Didn't you want some kind of debate?

Just in case you're curious about rape prevention here's a link with some of the basic ideas suggested by police. http://cityofdavis.org/police/investigations/rapeprev.cfm
 
Whoa whoa whoa, back the fuck up! Never did Ivy ever say that.

And I don't know about you, but I have never seen anyone happy that they were a victim of rape. Ever.

Oh, yeah. A woman's going to love waking up every morning and staring at the mirror at something that was abused. She's going to love the memory of seeing her rapists face every time she looks into the same coloured eyes as his. Making love to anyone else is forever going to be tainted because there's always that chance that she'll get a flash back of being abused.

Do you say that even little girls, the ones who have no control as to what happens to them, even enjoy being victims? That they indulge in the attention that people bask them in, smiling the entire way?

Try talking to some of the women who haven't gotten over attacks that have happened years ago. It's a scar that's never going to fully heal.

I can't believe you actually have the balls to sit there and try and state that a woman is happy to be a victim. You thoroughly disgust me.
 
Alright this is really my last post. Her question had nothing to do with little girls and none of my responses were geared toward that situation. Maybe you should have read all those times when I said a rapist was at fault for his own actions or to the topic of the thread. Pay attention to the question that was asked.

No one said that being raped isn't traumatic and that it doesn't cause long term mental or physical damage. My issue is with people flat out saying that taking precautions so they don't become a victim is somehow wrong. Did you even click that link or was your response some kind of knee jerk reaction to protect your fellow womans feelings? I have no respect for people who parade around like they're some kind of moral authority but when it comes down to any kind of action to prevent something from happening in their own lives they are content to do nothing. To equate educating yourself about being safe in any type of situation is some how paranoid is one of the deepest forms of boobary out there. Her comment basically said "Women shouldn't learn that because that would make them afraid of men and the world," which is why I said some people are content with being victims and it's true. She has no intention to look into information on a topic that statistically may happen to her. As far as saw, I was the only person who provided information about rape statistics, classes and prevention measures.

And to answer you question I have had to be there for a girls who have had this happen to them and its hard for everyone involved.

You ask a question which is meant to be controversial and you might just get answers you don't agree with. Fuck, you mean someone with an opinion would actually say something, bring up possible factors involved in the question and post some actual information instead of what you want to hear? Either way like i said this was my last post on this topic especially since I don't want to turn it into some interweb flame war. If you don't like what I say just skip over my posts to ones that you agree with; it's just that easy.
 
SlutDealer. Even with all the training in the world, when around friends, LETS THEIR GUARD DOWN. So around friends or family, if the prick suprises her, pins her down, and rapes her, which is how it usually happens, they're fucked! if the man is stronger in that situation, HE WINS. So then what? Was it the "stupid woman" who put their trust in someone's fault? Even partially. Fuck you. Never breed. EVER.
 
I'll be honest, I skipped over pretty much all of SlutDealer's stupidity.

No one here views the world through rose-colored lenses. I wouldn't be surprised if MOST of the women in this topic were victims and learned to deal with it in their own way. I was a victim myself at a young age. I'm not wearing it like a badge like you seem to think women should be doing. What I got from what you said is that you are a paranoid idiotic fuck and definitely should not breed.

You know why most women know their assailants? BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS COED YOU STUPID PRICK.

Not everyone is right in the head- including family and friends- but the thing about being a rapist/ psychopath is that they are usually charming people and know how to get people to trust them so they can get close and snatch what they want because in their fucked up brains- they have a right to that person's body. They obsess over that person until it's all they can think about and wait for an opportunity to act on that obsession. That is not the woman's fault in the least. They put their trust in that person because they don't feel like anything could be wrong because that person hides their true self so well, there isn't a question about their character.

You, sir, make me have less faith in the human race. Kindly blow up or something.​
 
This reminds me of a rape video my PE class saw in high school. It was part of our rape prevention unit.

One of the lines from the movie was, word-for-word, "Just don't get raped, ladies. It's not a good idea."

Is it really any wonder that this sort of fuckery----that victims are somehow to blame for being raped----still exists when we learn that in high school? This was in the early 2000's, by the way, so it wasn't that long ago.

Long argument short, no means no. It does not mean 'oh, yes, but please convince me in a violent and violating fashion! I'll enjoy it eventually!'.
 
Mr Master said:
Trouble said:
Long argument short, no means no. It does not mean 'oh, yes, but please convince me in a violent and violating fashion! I'll enjoy it eventually!'.
Click to expand...
That only works in questionable Japanese porn.
Click to expand...

I was actually told by someone that the women who get raped and filmed don't enjoy it by the ending. But because they're too embarrassed, say if it's in a public place, they don't scream out for help or anything like that.

It's... a rather unsettling.
 
Trouble said:
This reminds me of a rape video my PE class saw in high school. It was part of our rape prevention unit.

One of the lines from the movie was, word-for-word, "Just don't get raped, ladies. It's not a good idea."
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, it's not funny, but that's so stupid it made me laugh.

Trouble said:
Long argument short, no means no. It does not mean 'oh, yes, but please convince me in a violent and violating fashion! I'll enjoy it eventually!'.
Click to expand...

I read most of this thread and decided I wanted to weigh in, SlutDealer's comments not withstanding.

Out of my circle of close girlfriends, I'd say three out of four of us have been the victim of some kind of sexual assault. I'm one of the few lucky ones - I call it luck, because really, what it comes down to is I've never been in a situation where the circumstances led to someone attacking me just to get to my body. Why? I really can't say. I have no idea what factor prevented me from slipping over the threshold into statistics-ville, and I think that's the biggest worry, especially now that I have a daughter. I wish I could sit her down and say "Here's what I did. This THIS right here is how you keep from becoming a victim."

But I can't. So I'll tell her all the stupid cliches I heard as a young woman - "Park under streetlights, don't go out alone, make sure someone knows where you are, set up call back times if you're meeting someone new, don't take a drink from someone you don't know." Because I have no idea which one of them saved me the pain and the humiliation. So yes, we do live our lives on the defense - not because it's our fault that we were attacked, but because you often have no idea why they chose you in the first place, so you end up protecting yourself from everyone.
 
Here's a tip I learned from TV and watching crime shows. Don't ignore it, because I never thought of this one before, or even heard of it.

The woman had met this guy at the bar or whatever and she was having a great time partying and talking to him. When she went out to her car she noticed she was having some problems with it. So, she ended up driving home with him instead. When they got to her house he said he really needed to go to the bathroom. When she went to the door she let him in, and he did indeed go to the bathroom. But with her at home alone, he attacked her and raped her. He seemed like a nice great guy, she even said she was surprised by how helpful and nice he was. If not for the whole terrible trauma thing, she thought 'oh wow, I hope my daughter has someone nice who just wants to help her.'

Even if he just said "hey you had too many drinks, I'll follow you home to make sure you're okay" the danger still would've been there. You have to be careful about who you let into your home, no matter how benign they might seem. It's better to get to know them better in the light of day, instead of giving them the cover of night, and having a few drinks too many.

What I'm saying is, it's nearly impossible to look at someone and say 'yep, he's going to rape a shit-ton of people. Yep.' Even the nicest most sweetest guys who seemed genuinely concerned may still be monsters. Doesn't me we have to be paranoid people, it just means we should try not to be pulled in so easily. Sometimes nice guys or girls come with ulterior motives. It's a shame, but that's just how things are.

Also, Elehina, it's not only what you did, but the circumstances you've been handed in life. Some people are just born into circumstances where being raped isn't really a preventable thing. There isn't always a way to get away, no matter what precautions or decisions you make.
 
The thing is, yes, you should be wary of strangers, but by the statistics, the majority of people who are raped are raped by people they know. Family members, family friends, boyfriends, neighbors, etc. Date rape is primary, if I recall correctly, so it's someone you know well enough to go out with, but apparently you don't know them well enough. That's something people seem to ignore, because it's easier to be paranoid about theoretical psychotic strangers (which, yes, some exist) than it is to realize it could be a family member with a psychological problem.
 
it's hard to be wary when your attacker is someone who was one of your best friends for several years. when he has a gf of his own and he knows you have a bf of your own. yet, for some reason, he feels the need to suddenly betray that trust of all those years. it's very hard to prepare yourself for such a thing. maybe there are ways..... maybe there were warning signs..... but i'd hardly say the fault lied anywhere but on him. especially since no alluring clothes were worn nor was there any hint given that anything in that direction was ok. he heard the words NO over and over.... he didn't listen.
 
Aww, DA, that's terrible. I've never had to deal with that, but i've been betrayed alot in my life.

Now, on topic, There's just no way to prepare yourself for everything. Things might happen, they might not. You should be aware of things that could happen, but having to be constantly on guard is not right.
 
Bottom line is, considering majority of the attackers are people you trust, it's hard to prepare yourself or suspect anything before it happens. No sense of 'training' or self protection classes are going to make you fully prepared to stop an attacker, or to reach safety. All of these things point to the fact that women are not at fault in any sense- it doesn't matter what they wear, it doesn't matter how they carry themselves. If they are acting and dressing like sluts, then guys should just treat them like eye candy, and keep their hands to themselves.
 
Topic 1:
SlutDealer said:
While about 80% of all victims are white, minorities are somewhat more likely to be attacked.
Click to expand...


This seems erroneous or at the very least very poorly worded. Most people attacked are white yet minorities are more likely to be attacked? Do they mean minorities as poor white people? Or was this just a bad indication of how the statistics were gathered?

The statistics are also not going to take into account those who do not report their rapes. As Requiem stated, many men do not report their rape. Many WOMEN don't because of the stigma of those nonsensical ideas of "she was asking for it" that permeates many levels of society and cultures. Hells, some cultures blatantly state women are asking for rape for the gall to be born with a working vagina. Those short-sighted people, they KNEW having a vagina would cause this.

Not to say that since this one item is/sounds fallacious EVERY statistic presented is false/fallacious but it begs the question of who gathered these statistics and what is known.

Anyway, the idea that a woman has to be on edge at EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY is just ridiculous. The statistics also show she should be more worried about her good friends and related family and thus would probably never be able to relax. The same goes for men; just because you are apparently not often raped doesn't mean you shouldn't be on guard.

That idea is just shallow.

The one thing I am surprised that didn't come up (or that I didn't read, maybe I glossed over it) is that rape is primarily about control, not sex. It's one of the ultimate violations, showing the rapist has such power over the rapee that they can force their bodies to conform to their wishes. So, while many men may buy women drinks in hopes of getting in their pants, most men (I would hope) have enough self-esteem to not need to force themselves upon a person to prove their superiority or power.

Topic 2:

Now, about the argument that a woman who is being bought drinks should know what "a man is up to." How many movies over the years in a Eurocentric culture have had people meet at bars/clubs over a bought drink? How often has this been the preferred method for socializing, even with younger kids at the quintessential malt shop/fast food place and now the coffee place? The common idea is that people go to coffee shops, bars, or what have you for dating just as much as getting laid. Yet, in this approximation, every man who buys a woman a drink (or perhaps even a man a drink or a woman buying a man a drink) should suspect that this person is only interested in getting into their pants as quickly as possible? Not that they'd like that AS WELL AS getting to know this person and starting some type of relationship with them? That is a kind of paranoid thinking that should not be advocated.

Topic 3:

Now, sadly, trials for rape are not shut and close. There has to be evidence and supposedly people don't press charges because going to trial is often stated to be like reliving the crime all over again until the trial ends and there is almost never a sure fire way to know if the victim would win. Men have the double standard of being seen as weak if having been raped by a woman or seen as less than a man if raped by a man, or that hideous standard of "men like sex so they can't be raped" that is so prevalent in American culture among some that even consider the possibility of men being raped.

Topic 4: Simply put: No means no. It doesn't matter what sex, what area, what clothing, what scenario is involved. As simplistic as that is, I believe it is true.
 
I don't generally tend to respond to these threads...

I, too, have been raped. By my boyfriend... I didn't have much choice in it, because I didn't know that he was a psychopath until after... But I did have the ability to choose how he could do it.

He was coercing me. Or that is to say, he was nagging me. I was saying no. I knew he'd turn violent if I didn't say yes... so I said yes to avoid the physical pain. I just had that feeling, I guess. I trust my gut instinct.

That out of the way - I now know that rape is not a crime of passion, or a crime of sex. Rape is a crime of oppression. The rapist is, by raping you, telling you that he has power over you. He is worth more than you. That you have no power over your body. THIS is not your fault.

It isn't your fault if you're raped, no... but at the same time, women don't have to dress in skirts that show off ther vaginas in public, and they don't HAVE to go out and get piss drunk. It's not a privilege, ladies. The bottom line is, we can't expect everyone to take no for an answer. Some of us have felt this on our bodies. Should we then use the "it couldn't happen to me" mentality? And take it for good fish? Or should we perhaps think a bit about what we're wearing for whom, and for what occasion? Or perhaps, think a bit about how much we're drinking?

I'm saying this out of concern for fellow women, because some men are idiots. Men can't be expected to be as smart as us. And though I do love my men, I really do... they're not all considerate and intelligent. Should we then let ourselves sink to their level? No? Perhaps not?

Thank you.

I don't want to make any enemies with this post, and my idea is not to provoke anger, but thought. So please, keep a cool mind?
 
Errrr.

You said yes.

You gave consent.

Ergo, you were not raped. If you felt in danger, you should have alerted the damn authorities or left. Don't belittle women who ACTUALLY had no choice by trying to inflate your lack of will into an actual assault.
 
Women don't have to wear skimpy clothing to gain unwanted attention. I'm sure that's already been said multiple times in this thread.

Also, if you had said no, went with how your body really felt, he could've been convicted and put behind bars. No one should put themselves under any pressure just because they want to save themselves from a painful experience. It isn't ideal to feel a pain like that, but it also doesn't make it a good idea, either.
 
ah yes... i know this scenario too. my ex was an asshole like that. coerced and sometimes forced. but in the end, i let it happen and stopped fighting (and not b/c i felt i was being overtaken, etc). would i call it rape? no. more of a violation. is it my fault that i didn't do anything at the time about it? i'd say yes. for those instances. they sucked and they were wrong. but i wouldn't term it rape nor was i very smart about ditching the fuckhead sooner than later. the other situation with the guy i thought was a friend. THAT... was the onset of a rape situation. and let me just say.... very fucking different. VERY!
 
I'm sorry for posting in an old thread, however, I really need to say this. If you are coerced into saying yes, or you say yes to protect yourself from other physical harm, it is still fully considered to be rape in the eyes of the law. The person used force and the thread of physical violence to get you to have sex in a situation which you would not have consented to otherwise. However these situations have only recently been paid any real attention to. I think, but I'm not sure, the authorities began to look at these cases when the idea that a husband could not rape his wife went out the window.

If a woman is coerced into giving consent, consent has not really been given. It is rape.
 
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