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Art of War

Nihilistic_Impact

Nihilistic_Impact

Brigadista
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Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Conflict is a vital part of any story line, and some people choose to make use of it in a most violent means when it comes to role playing. The purpose of this here thread is to open a discussion upon what different people of different means think in conducting their battles.

It doesn't matter what the method is, it is a potentially valuable topic point, as we attempt to ascertain exactly what it is the members of BMR consider first and foremost when it comes to the art of war.

Questions to initiate discussion:

- What do you consider fair use when it comes to a fight?

- What weapons/abilities do you enjoy using in a fight?

- At what point does someone's actions cross the line and ruin your fun?
 
Personally, to me..discussion of the beforehand is very important. Some people enjoy winging it, and that's fine, but others have issues with seeing their character wiped across the ground without a good blow or two to see them off. I think discussing the combat potential of the characters is also very important, because player characters need to fit their atmosphere.

Generally, the unpleasant discussion for who wins and who loses will crawl up somewhere. Most people I've Rped with generally can't swallow their bias for their character to let them take a loss, even when it makes sense that they'd get their asses smeared. For a better quality of story, sometimes the characters have to lose.

Nothing kills it to me more when someone pulls out some hidden and unknown trump card and tell me moments before they post the damned thing, this isn't a 'ooh, look how powerful my character is' dick contest, this is a story. Even in the most power grabbing anime, the hero gets the shit knocked out of him more than a few times, even if he does prevail..the point is that he is not invincible, he wins with blood, sweat and tears and that annoying ass trump card crazy technique.

Of course, for me? I love gunplay, in the more loose settings I like using characters that can do crazy acrobatics and pistol work.
 
Ahh yes, the age old story driven fights vs fights of pure ego. I've done both over the years and am rather skilled at either, though I lean more heavily to the story driven these days and even in a competition where the goal is to win I will take damage. Usually I find the things you mention creeping up with people that don't really think too hard about their characters, or think too hard, and have a deep emotional investment in the characters well being.

Personally I believe that anyone that wants to take part in a rp fight of any kind needs to be a sadist, to their character and the others.

As for weapons, I'm willing to work with almost anything. I just need a level of realism so things like an armbar can actually work.

Another question to consider, BMR rp fighting tournament, good or bad idea? Also, demonstration matches of different combat styles?
 
It really does all boil down to how well you know your character and how much you like that character, because personally? I always felt that you had to really like your character to see them as flawed, it's just like knowing a friend has issues and you still like them anyway. It makes them who they are.

I feel like demo matches could be pretty fun, a lot of fighting to me is really discussion of how you think the fight would go down. I can't say I haven't succumbed to to the ego bais before, because that'd be a horrid lie, but as long as it seems like my character, you know..is actually as skilled as I made him be, whatever works.

Of course, that raises another question. When do you have it set that too much is really too much for a character to be good at?
 
I think whenever any sort of fighting, especially between characters, occurs, discussions really should be had before hand. Like Broomy pointed out, unrealistic wins or trumps can really throw off the flow and mood of a story/RP. I know for myself, if it didn't make sense, it would more than likely kill my muse. I for one am perfectly all right for my character to lose in a fight just as I am for them to win. All in all, I like conclusions to match the atmosphere, my character's knowledge/skill/etc and fit into the story in general. Plus, you want a fight to add to the development of your character. Sometimes losses develop them much more so than any win could.

As for types of fights I enjoy? I typically go for the magical or supernatural. Part of this is a direct result in my own lack of knowledge on both weaponry (be it guns, swords, what have you) and hand-to-hand combat. When using magic or supernatural abilities, you have the luxury (although still within reason) of being able to bend things a bit in your favor. Plus, you avoid having to delve into the finer details of weapons you may or may not know something about. However, I will also say, that I do find magical fights to be fun and interesting. It does take imagination and creativity to come up with spells that make a true impact and the like.

As for crossing the lines... well, if discussions are had before fighting between characters occur, this shouldn't be a problem. Issues should be hashed out and a rough idea planned as for outcome. When someone doesn't give me a chance to react, that's when I get annoyed. But again, this can be avoided if good communication exists between partners.
 
So what is your take on heavily detailed fighting posts which go deeply into the mechanics?

Also opinion on a looser and more generalised style of detail?

Would you rather be densely accurate in description or more open to interpretation?
 
Depending on the mechanics, sometimes I feel like you put too much detail into fighting and it becomes less about who is the better fighter and more into who can write the best detail and do the best prose. This is where discussion with your RPing partner is needed, you need to decide on the level of RPing that you both can agree too, if you can find someone who can keep up with your detailed description of martial arts moves, body locations and so on..go for it.

But I prefer generalized, something that I don't have to intensely mull over in just posting that I punched a dude in the nose. I don't feel like it's fair to take an advantage of someone's lack of post length to win a battle, I think the best way to be fair is to match general length if at all possible. I mean, my understanding of melee combat with weapons is basic at best, that's why I pick people who use guns, I know how a knife works and I can use that to my advantage..but besides that I'm screwed.

I think the BIG thing about fighting is that a little research goes a long way in making your character as experienced as you say they are.
 
This is a very interesting topic! I'm enjoying reading everyone's thoughts and opinions in this entire concrit section...

"Personally I believe that anyone that wants to take part in a rp fight of any kind needs to be a sadist, to their character and the others."

I enjoy really well done battle scenes in books and movies (and my definition of "really well done" varies, I admit), and since I passively enjoy it, I expect to interactively enjoy it as well...I certainly don't consider myself any kind of sadist/masochist, but I agree, if you get in a fight, expect to get hurt and to inflict hurt, otherwise just call it a pillow fight and have fun with it! ;) Although I'm discovering rp battles harder to do than I imagined, as I'm finding I don't want to *hurt* characters/rp partners that I like! :p

The unexpected trump card, as long as it makes logical sense to me, and fits within the character's experience, skills and knowledge - I actually enjoy the creative surprise. But, if it doesn't make sense, like you guys mention, and they wallop my character with said out-of-the-blue trump card, yeah, I'd get annoyed.

I think depending on who I'm playing with, and what the themes and main focus of our story is will dictate the level of detail of the fighting in the posts - or if there is any fighting at all. But I do want it to make sense and engage me, and be physically possible by the character. I think I would enjoy a more generalized/loose style where the story is not an action plot. But if my rp partner is good at it, and we are doing an action story, I'd love extreme detail! :D

I think you guys hit the nail on the head, discussions ahead of time is no doubt the key to an enjoyable rp experience.
 
In real life I rather enjoy studying martial arts and this can bleed over on the rare occasion I write a character who gets involved in a fist fight. Generally I eschew PC-on-PC violence of that nature unless an outcome is pre-determined and even then I like a loose blow-by-blow of what's going to occur.

When I do find myself getting involved in PC-on-NPC violence I find myself imagining the flow of the fight over and over again before I write a word. Are either of the characters martial artists? Who's taller? Who's faster? Does anyone have a glass jaw? Are they laying their lives on the line, sparring or fighting to prove who's bigger and better and badder? Does one of the characters prefer grappling, what happens when they get into a clinch, are there any pre-existing injuries to keep in mind?

What I find is that I try to keep in minds the fights I've seen and experienced. Generally the ones I write do not last much longer than a minute or two. Generally it ends when someone is seeping blood and can't quite stand straight anymore.
 
Fair, there is no such thing as a fair fight, a fight that you intent to fight fair in is one that you intend to lose. That is something an instructor of mine in hand to hand tactics taught in TechSchool

but in terms of the powers I prefer to use, I prefer a more clever power set, a power that isn't directly over powered like shadow control is (I have seen this far to many times to even tolerate it anymore)

Instead I go with something a bit less overpowered, like the ability to manipulate your density, or limited telekenetics within a certain range.
 
That's a great perspective to have IC; but I find that such an OOC perspective often sours the whole experience far too quickly.

Honestly, I don't see anything clever about shadow manipulation. It is far too cliche and overdone and rarely ever used in a way that isn't pathetically idiotic or over powered.
 
True, I really only participate in IC fights if it furthers the plot in a significant way
 
- What do you consider fair use when it comes to a fight?: Whatever my character is likely to use. I often play RPs that are spys or mercenaries or what have you, so I've used everything form hand to hand to whacking someone over the head with a vase. And [as I'll complain about this later] a small amount of god-moding so you can actually have a fight. Nothing drastic, just pushing throw to collision with a punch or kick and not leaving it to the other person to write "And my character got punched in the nose."

- What weapons/abilities do you enjoy using in a fight? Hand to hand is always my fav XD I try to use nothing that I haven't experienced or seen done, just so I can get the feel. A close second are bladed weapons, from knife to machetes. I once even wrote a fight scene wit a cleaver. I prefer not to use guns, just because it's just less fun to write. Aim, pull trigger, boom >.> Because I hardly have fantasy rps, I hardly write magical fight scenes but when I do I tend to mix magic and hand to hand, or at least something physical like being thrown back as they're hit by a spell or something.

- At what point does someone's actions cross the line and ruin your fun? When they constantly miraculously dodge my blows! I hate it when I throw a munch and some Matrix bends their way out of it, when I (very graciously) succumb to some of their kicks and what not. Very annoying. A basic a basic level you have god mode just a tad because if you wait for someone to respond to every blow it will a) take to damn long and b) they'll probably write out a dodge to it. Example: Player A grabs player B's shirt a starts to grapple them to the floor. [Post cut off] Player B wriggles out of Player A's grasp. [post cut off] When in RL they wouldn't have time to wriggle out. It's things like that that I find really annoying to me when writing a fight scene.
 
In my RPs I tend to shy away from direct fights with my characters and anothers' or even with NPCs. However, they do sometimes occur whether out of need or for some other reason. When they do, they tend to be either of a supernatural or magical flavor. There are a few reasons why my characters do not typically engage in fighting (or at least the standard type of fighting) and those reasons would be:

1) my characters are typically more passive in nature
2) my characters are typically naive in that arena having never dealt with that level of conflict and having never used a weapon
3) my characters are usually magical, psychic or supernatural if I envision fighting to be an element of plot, etc.
4) my characters, even if magical or what have you, are typically in the earlier stages of manifestation of such abilities

Now, that said, when I do engage my characters in fighting, I do lean toward magic use. My magics of choice typically are either necromancy or elemental magics (or some combination thereof). Over the years in dabbling with the creation of such characters, I've tweaked ideas here and there to suit my purposes be it for interesting story/plot or to help my character grow and develop.

When it comes to necromancy, I've delved into the arenas of summoning beings ranging from half rotted corpses to demon spawn. And I've also delved into the idea of plane walking where my character can walk between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead. However, because I'm not a fan of overly powerful mages of any sort, I like the idea of plane walking to be a last resort tactic, something that leaves the living body of the mage ridiculously vulnerable since I see it as a long conjuring spell involving meditation not to mention that her body cannot travel with her.

With elemental magics, my favorite will always be manipulation of water in its various forms be it water, ice, snow, rain, what have you. I've taken this particular elemental control far enough that she could conjure rain or snow storms or hail. But I typically reserve such things for when she's seriously learned how to get a true handle on her power. In other words, don't expect such things early on in the RP or story.

When it comes to my magic users, I have a huge love for watching them grow from the first onset of power to when they become very powerful. I like putting them through the learning process, watching them fail and even succeed. Watching them come to grips with what they have and how to use it be it for good or evil. I think a lot of this is b/c I like build up with any character I create as well as with plot and relationship developments between characters. It makes for a great long term project and also provides an interesting character study.
 
I am gonna cut in again, worse then the constant dodging is the old heal and recover from anything. I haven't seen this one for a while, maybe because the sites I am on have improved but when I first started out on a site known as Uetonai there was this one guy, Sin... mother fucker wouldn't go down. I mean it got to the point where I got tired of his shit and had my character lead him into a field full of claymore anti personel mines and then hose down what was left with a flame thrower, but like Majin fucking Buu he got back up and started laughing and trying to kill me again.

My own character at the time was my first and he also had quite limited healing... but the trick with him was to just overwhelm his ability to heal, do enough damage quickly enough and his body would not be able to cope with it... its like Superman, if it wasn't for his weaknesses then he would be less fun.
 
- What do you consider fair use when it comes to a fight?

Planning never can hurt anyone, granted from the majority of rp fights I have had it usually is winged. Some guidelines are preferably set in stone, well unless it came to some of the younger days where it came to adapting and outsmarting the adversary. Generally what you have written on your profile seems fair, if it there and you know that is cool.

- What weapons/abilities do you enjoy using in a fight?

I am neutral when it comes to role playing fights. Personally I see more excitement from a hand to hand combat fight. There are multiple disciplines and styles that are connected. Sure it can become a pain if one brings a wall of text of info [ I am looking at you Sieg], but none the less close combat seems most fun. I am guilty of power playing in the past, now it is reasonable to have either a set amount of abilities or manipulating like 1-3 powers at max and having variations.


- At what point does someone's actions cross the line and ruin your fun?
Ego. All the momentum, the story, even the excitement of the fight can be severed from someone unwilling to taste defeat. Unless set up story wise as this Grandmaster of Asskicking, I find this utterly annoying.

TOO much detail can do this as well. If I have to grow accustom to reading a novel for every response, my urge to continue lessens. That is all really for that section. I saw the other questions, but these simple things to address should suffice.


BMR could use some tournament in the near future, although based on where I linger that usually had a prize. N.I you know of what I speak of likely. Any who I say try it out, this could bring alot of exciting outcomes and blue moon could use some bloodshed over sex xD.
 
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