On loneliness

[Retrojapan]

When I was younger I always felt like I was the odd one out and felt lonely at times. But when I was around people I wanted to run away!

In time I realised I am not like most people and that is fine. I am happy alone and it is others who make me feel lonely.

I may have grown into feeling this way, but you describe it perfectly.

 

[ƒeral]

I'm not especially lonely because I'm quite introverted anyway, but I do find the general throwaway nature of connections and the heavy suit of armour that comes with being an online entity kinda isolating sometimes. I wish it was a little easier to send and receive warmth without worrying that you're making another human being feel uncomfortable.

But similarly to what Passion said earlier in the thread, I can spend an entire day in isolation and feel lonely, and I can spend an entire day in communication and feel alone. So it's also about finding people who connect with your core values. Trying to shoehorn the wrong people into the right role can be even worse. It would be nice to meet some cool people here on BMR through various interactions and exchanges, but it's important for it to happen naturally, if it does at all.

My own philosophy is to just try and be sincere with myself and how I treat others. Then, at least I can feel that my side of the exchange was the best I was able to offer, even if the connection is fleeting.

Really dig your philosophy man, well-said.

I wanted to add that I think it's interesting that you mentioned being an entity online comes with a heavy suit of armor though. Care to elaborate on that? Personally I've always found the opposite to be true - the less likely that I will ever actually run into someone IRL, the more honest I tend to be.

 

[Claire Voyant]

I may have grown into feeling this way, but you describe it perfectly.

Thanks. I have just found I am happier and stronger alone. Sometimes you just have to go against the narrative that gets forced on us. It is not for everyone.

 

[Monoko]

Really dig your philosophy man, well-said.

I wanted to add that I think it's interesting that you mentioned being an entity online comes with a heavy suit of armor though. Care to elaborate on that? Personally I've always found the opposite to be true - the less likely that I will ever actually run into someone IRL, the more honest I tend to be.

Thank you, that's nice of you!

It's an interesting question, and I spent entirely way too long thinking about my response, haha.

The truth is, I don't have a satisfying answer for you, or at least, not in a way that I'm able to express succinctly. The best I can do is to say that I think there is a difference between being open with someone, and actually forming a true connection with them. I think there is a very clear divide between our real selves and our online personas, and that barrier can be challenging to breach unless both parties are willing to put in the effort.

So I could tell you my deepest, most intimate secrets, but it wouldn't matter, because you don't know me, and I don't know you. There's no risk involved, because you can't hurt me. I could delete my account, and that information would quickly be lost to the ether. The armour doesn't necessarily protect the most vulnerable parts of us, but rather our most surface-level fact — our separate identity — which makes it difficult for a true bond to form in the first place.

Of course, some people have thinner barriers than others. I consider myself on the more open end, and it sounds like you do too. But we're two writers posting on a thread about emotions and loneliness — we're almost predisposed to feel more comfortable about sharing our vulnerabilities. Here's an interesting thought: would you sooner tell an Internet stranger your real identity, or a physical stranger your BMR name?

Maybe if I asked how your day was today, you'd be happy to tell me all about it. Maybe if I asked someone else, they'd think me creepy for trying to breach that barrier, even if I meant the gesture sincerely. I guess my own capacity to overthink things means I worry too much about the latter to be confident about the former, in which case, the answer simply might be that it's a personal problem.

So I think it's not that genuine connections cannot be formed, but rather than it takes two quite determined souls to make it happen. Without that mutual willingness, trust can be a little harder to earn, connections a little harder to solidify, and separation a little easier to accept. I just find that a little bit of a shame sometimes, even though we obviously can't be best friends with everyone.

Anyway, how did your day go today? Was it good? I hope so.

 

[ƒeral]

Thank you, that's nice of you!

It's an interesting question, and I spent entirely way too long thinking about my response, haha.

The truth is, I don't have a satisfying answer for you, or at least, not in a way that I'm able to express succinctly. The best I can do is to say that I think there is a difference between being open with someone, and actually forming a true connection with them. I think there is a very clear divide between our real selves and our online personas, and that barrier can be challenging to breach unless both parties are willing to put in the effort.

So I could tell you my deepest, most intimate secrets, but it wouldn't matter, because you don't know me, and I don't know you. There's no risk involved, because you can't hurt me. I could delete my account, and that information would quickly be lost to the ether. The armour doesn't necessarily protect the most vulnerable parts of us, but rather our most surface-level fact — our separate identity — which makes it difficult for a true bond to form in the first place.

Of course, some people have thinner barriers than others. I consider myself on the more open end, and it sounds like you do too. But we're two writers posting on a thread about emotions and loneliness — we're almost predisposed to feel more comfortable about sharing our vulnerabilities. Here's an interesting thought: would you sooner tell an Internet stranger your real identity, or a physical stranger your BMR name?

Maybe if I asked how your day was today, you'd be happy to tell me all about it. Maybe if I asked someone else, they'd think me creepy for trying to breach that barrier, even if I meant the gesture sincerely. I guess my own capacity to overthink things means I worry too much about the latter to be confident about the former, in which case, the answer simply might be that it's a personal problem.

So I think it's not that genuine connections cannot be formed, but rather than it takes two quite determined souls to make it happen. Without that mutual willingness, trust can be a little harder to earn, connections a little harder to solidify, and separation a little easier to accept. I just find that a little bit of a shame sometimes, even though we obviously can't be best friends with everyone.

Anyway, how did your day go today? Was it good? I hope so.

Ohh you have really interesting perspectives/questions.

So, let me posit my thoughts back to you in the form of a question - what are our real selves? Is who I am - my age, gender, profession, locality, or any number of adjectives that might be more readily apparent to someone who I meet irl my real self? Is it my background, the precise combination of factors and experiences that constructed who I am today? Or is it how I think? What I think about. What my interests are. What I like to talk about.

Put differently, I personally value the latter - how one's mind functions - over virtually anything else. I want to know what makes people tick. What makes them smile and what makes them cringe. I want to know their favorite song and favorite game - or if they hate video games and rather go read a book. That to me is infinitely more interesting to me than someone's physical appearance or where they are in life.

So again, personally, I consider myself far more of an open-book online than IRL. The connection - ephemeral or not - is that spark of joy coming from seeking to understand and to be understood in turn. Me knowing someone's 'real' identity doesn't tend to make me understand them any better, so I assign no value to it.

As to your first question - neither. I know that's a cop-out, but it's kind of a spheres shall not cross type situation. I don't believe someone need to know what I look like or where I work to understand me, and so, I would never volunteer it. Similarly, a random stranger has no business knowing what I do and do not write online.

As to the comment on how different people might react - who cares, man? If you are being genuine and asking about someone's day, and they manage to take that the wrong way, that's their problem, not yours. At the end of the day, everyone can only control what is within his or her control - how we conduct ourselves, whether we are polite, perhaps pleasant, dare I say genuine. We have zero control over how that's perceived, even if we are able to influence it, so I've learned not to fuss over that part.

Love me or hate me - I don't care, but I will be me. With an important caveat - I am respectful. I talk to respectful people who communicate openly and clearly. I value any and all perspectives, including controversial ones, if framed politely. Come @ me like a twitter hashtag war, then there will be a clear winner, and it's gonna be me. That's my philosophy since you shared yours haha.

My day is going great, how about you?

 

[Monoko]

Ohh you have really interesting perspectives/questions.

So, let me posit my thoughts back to you in the form of a question - what are our real selves? Is who I am - my age, gender, profession, locality, or any number of adjectives that might be more readily apparent to someone who I meet irl my real self? Is it my background, the precise combination of factors and experiences that constructed who I am today? Or is it how I think? What I think about. What my interests are. What I like to talk about.

Put differently, I personally value the latter - how one's mind functions - over virtually anything else. I want to know what makes people tick. What makes them smile and what makes them cringe. I want to know their favorite song and favorite game - or if they hate video games and rather go read a book. That to me is infinitely more interesting to me than someone's physical appearance or where they are in life.

So again, personally, I consider myself far more of an open-book online than IRL. The connection - ephemeral or not - is that spark of joy coming from seeking to understand and to be understood in turn. Me knowing someone's 'real' identity doesn't tend to make me understand them any better, so I assign no value to it.

As to your first question - neither. I know that's a cop-out, but it's kind of a spheres shall not cross type situation. I don't believe someone need to know what I look like or where I work to understand me, and so, I would never volunteer it. Similarly, a random stranger has no business knowing what I do and do not write online.

As to the comment on how different people might react - who cares, man? If you are being genuine and asking about someone's day, and they manage to take that the wrong way, that's their problem, not yours. At the end of the day, everyone can only control what is within his or her control - how we conduct ourselves, whether we are polite, perhaps pleasant, dare I say genuine. We have zero control over how that's perceived, even if we are able to influence it, so I've learned not to fuss over that part.

Love me or hate me - I don't care, but I will be me. With an important caveat - I am respectful. I talk to respectful people who communicate openly and clearly. I value any and all perspectives, including controversial ones, if framed politely. Come @ me like a twitter hashtag war, then there will be a clear winner, and it's gonna be me. That's my philosophy since you shared yours haha.

My day is going great, how about you?

I think our real selves aren't necessarily greater or lesser than our online selves, but I think they're more loyal. I'm not talking about you specifically here, I mean everyone. Our real lives carry greater weight to them. We have greater responsibilities -- careers, loved ones personal health -- and it matters if we neglect them. Whereas we can easily ditch our online personas in a split second.

blaseturtleclub is not my first attempt at a personality on BMR. I created it specifically in an attempt to interact with the site more assertively than I was able to with my first account, which was much more reclusive. So does that mean there are now two entirely different me's on this site? Would you be friends with one, and not the other, without even knowing, even though I'm the same person? Then, is it really "me" you like, or just the collection words I'm able to spin to you? Doesn't that make it feel a bit more hollow?

Haha -- that IS a cop-out! I made that point specifically because that's how I form connections with people. That's why it feels to me like people are wearing armour. Let's say you and I were to become friends. I WOULD want to know more about you. Not just the tales you tell me, but the "real" you. I guess that's the old-fashioned part of me that still sees the human behind the avatar, but I'm also very aware that you're a skilled writer, and your words may not tell the whole story.

I believe the two ARE inexorably intertwined. I am the shy one. I am the assertive one. I am my kinks. I am my career. All of those things bubble together in a witches cauldron to create the final abomination that is...me. Each individual part may not be the most important in isolation, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. To neglect one part of myself suggests that I'm hiding it, or that I'm ashamed of it. I want to be my whole self: the good and the bad. The funny and the embarrassing. The interesting and the boring.

I agree with you that we can only control how we behave ourselves, and not how others view us. I am an over-thinker and am socially-anxious, which is why I question myself and my behaviours so thoroughly. Again, blaseturtleclub is an attempt to push beyond that.

I thoroughly respect your perspective, and I am complimentary about your thoughts and behaviours. To be the best you you can be, without compromising yourself or your values. That's respectable and I would never suggest it required changing. As to whether I'd ever be able to break through your """armor""" and become someone you consider valuable - well, who am I to say?

Maybe it doesn't matter if one random person doesn't find another random person on the Internet valuable. But if everyone felt that way about each other all the time, then no one would ever be valuable to anyone, and that's sad. So, it does matter to me.

It's been okay, thanks. It's Friday! I've been plotting and scheming a new RT, and that's always exciting. Enjoy the rest of your day!

 

[ƒeral]

I think our real selves aren't necessarily greater or lesser than our online selves, but I think they're more loyal. I'm not talking about you specifically here, I mean everyone. Our real lives carry greater weight to them. We have greater responsibilities -- careers, loved ones personal health -- and it matters if we neglect them. Whereas we can easily ditch our online personas in a split second.

blaseturtleclub is not my first attempt at a personality on BMR. I created it specifically in an attempt to interact with the site more assertively than I was able to with my first account, which was much more reclusive. So does that mean there are now two entirely different me's on this site? Would you be friends with one, and not the other, without even knowing, even though I'm the same person? Then, is it really "me" you like, or just the collection words I'm able to spin to you? Doesn't that make it feel a bit more hollow?

Haha -- that IS a cop-out! I made that point specifically because that's how I form connections with people. That's why it feels to me like people are wearing armour. Let's say you and I were to become friends. I WOULD want to know more about you. Not just the tales you tell me, but the "real" you. I guess that's the old-fashioned part of me that still sees the human behind the avatar, but I'm also very aware that you're a skilled writer, and your words may not tell the whole story.

I believe the two ARE inexorably intertwined. I am the shy one. I am the assertive one. I am my kinks. I am my career. All of those things bubble together in a witches cauldron to create the final abomination that is...me. Each individual part may not be the most important in isolation, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. To neglect one part of myself suggests that I'm hiding it, or that I'm ashamed of it. I want to be my whole self: the good and the bad. The funny and the embarrassing. The interesting and the boring.

I agree with you that we can only control how we behave ourselves, and not how others view us. I am an over-thinker and am socially-anxious, which is why I question myself and my behaviours so thoroughly. Again, blaseturtleclub is an attempt to push beyond that.

I thoroughly respect your perspective, and I am complimentary about your thoughts and behaviours. To be the best you you can be, without compromising yourself or your values. That's respectable and I would never suggest it required changing. As to whether I'd ever be able to break through your """armor""" and become someone you consider valuable - well, who am I to say?

Maybe it doesn't matter if one random person doesn't find another random person on the Internet valuable. But if everyone felt that way about each other all the time, then no one would ever be valuable to anyone, and that's sad. So, it does matter to me.

It's been okay, thanks. It's Friday! I've been plotting and scheming a new RT, and that's always exciting. Enjoy the rest of your day!

Your 'physical' self certainly comes with more 'consequences', sure. But my point is precisely that, no? Take, for example, some of the more controversial topics in BMR Academy's threads. Would those positions be the kind people would comfortably discuss face to face? Would they not fear reprise and judgement, as opposed to the benefit of anonymity which tends to encourage freer, less-censored discourse?

To the contrary, neither is you and both is you. The human psyche is not so flat as to be constrained to a single 'persona'. I am optimistic. I am cynical. I am analytical. I am easygoing. I don't see a problem or contradiction with any of those statements, because human are complicated and it is that same complexity that make humans interesting. So no, there's nothing hollow about that, kind stranger on the internet.

Shrug, everyone's different and I respect those differences. Frankly, all of those characteristics - age, gender, career - they matter but they have already left an imprint on how anyone talk about anything. In dictum. In interests. I don't need to learn how someone became the way they are. I'm interested in the what and why.

On that note, what is value? There are people I see day in and day out, that I'm cordial with. That I work well with. That I'm always friendly and always eager to assist when they need help. One might say I am of value to them, and certainly, they are of value to me. Does that mean they know me better than total strangers on the internet though?

I'll leave you with that one. x3 Enjoy the rest of your Friday.

 

[Jerram]

I think that the way the always-online culture has eroded face-to-face contact has caused this "epidemic of loneliness." The median number of facebook friends people have is 200 (average is 338). Most of those aren't friends except by the weakest possible definition. That kind of friendship is an illusion and if you rely on those 200 to fill the need for in person human interaction, it's no surprise people are lonely.

In fact, you probably have time for only five friends: significant other, sports teammate, fishing/drinking buddy or similar. You can spend 5,000 hours playing a cartoonish game with people on the other side of the planet or spend the same time learning bowling, or playing guitar, or mountain biking and come out a more rounded person who others want to be friends with.

 

[Silvered Sutures]

I think I'm mostly lonely in my mind, and RP is a good way for me to bring out those ideas I wouldn't want to necessarily share with those I am close to IRL. I've got some twisted stuff in my noggin'.

 

[Wymond]

Is loneliness the same as feeling a lack of belonging? I've a partner and one or two friends IRL and I've only flet lonely the past few months as I've not been in work - I deal with a lot of people and that very much overfills my need for human contact. But I very much feel I don't have a community, somewher I can go where there are shared interests and values and I feel I could strike up a converssation with a stranger (which I can't do IRL) and it's something I've never found despite trying furries to religion (and many other things obviously) and that makes me feel isolated and alone.

 

[NightFairy]

I have to say that while I don't necceserly feel lonely, there is a bit of a gap in what my irl friends and family can deliver. Due to just life happening my closest friends, those that I used to RP with, talk about nerdy stuff and so on live far away and we are all busy we can't just hang around all day and talk about video games, movies etc. My partner doesn't share this part of my interest either.

For me RPing is filling something that is important to me, something that is missing in my RL. Is it 100% loneliness? Not really, but I would say it's partial.