Overplotting

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

After 10+ years role-playing on adult forums, I've taken for granted the fact that if my partner and I plan the story too far ahead or get too much in depth, it'll kill my motivation to write the story very soon after. But I've never really examined why.

Professional writers, like novel authors, very often do plan ahead and work with a story outline. And if they have a deadline to meet for a publisher, they don't have the option to just drop a story that isn't working and start over from the beginning. And for those professionals, having an outline enables them to come up with relevant twists and story arcs, to tie up loose ends, or sometimes planning books ahead in a series, to make growth of characters or mysteries feel more impactful when things are finally revealed.

So, why does talking about the rp too much just make me lose motivation to the point where I physically cannot strap myself down and continue the story? Like, I can't write by myself either, so, possibly it's part of the same problem?

What do you think? Why does overplotting sap away inspiration?

 

[Shiva the Cat]

I think part of the appeal of roleplaying is knowing that you don't have to plot out every single thing that will happen through the course of the story, because ideally your partner is sharing the load with you. This means they can still surprise you with things you haven't thought of, and that lends an air of excitement that can keep everyone engaged longer, since you want to find out what happens next.

If you overplan though, that element of surprise goes away (or at least gets diminished) and you're basically left with the work of filling in the outline you and your partner have developed through OOC discussion. You might still have some opportunity to throw some twists in there, but depending on how thorough you've been in planning, you could just as easily write yourselves into a very rigid framework with no room for adjustment.

I do think it's healthy to play a little "What If?" with your partner as you go along though, with the understanding that you don't have to use every idea that comes up or even commit to the ones you both like. Having a few different options on the table without having to pick one until the last minute can still preserve that element of surprise while staving off writer's block or plot dead-ends. Staying flexible and being ready to change your mind down the line really helps too.

 

[Chalarm]

There are a couple considerations that could potentially come into play, though they are just guesses and probably require deeper deconstruction. Firstly, I think its a matter of how much planning is done for the RP. While some degree of preparation is required for any plot, if one were to spend so much time planning out a scene that when it comes around to writing it out it just feels like a recap of what was said before, it will probably drain some motivation. If both parties have already written what is happening then in the worst case it could feel like doing twice as much work. I would say the best planning is setting a destination but leaving it up to the RP for how to actually get there.

A second thought could be the fact that RPing is at least a two person job. For a professional writer they plan it out mostly with themselves and are creating it for an audience (as well as themselves of course). RP's are made by multiple people and in most cases are created for those specific people. When the makers are the same ones reading it, planning the RP out could possibly be counterintuitive to the aspect of consuming the medium. Essentially if you know the other party already knows what is happening and will happen you could subconsciously be less involved, like a magician playing to an audience who already know all the tricks.

Those are my two cents at least, not sure how likely they are to be, as it always depends on the degree to which a plot is planned.

 

[Lady Irony]

Role Playing is a game, an adventure which is shared with your partner. The whole idea of playing with someone else is to bring in new ideas (within reason) that you may not have thought of yourself as well as experience the adventure with them.

When you over plot (something I can be guilty of) you lose that and it feels like you have already played it out so to then write it in slightly more detail through the RP itself seems pointless.

I love it when characters take on a life of their own and just have to do what they what they want, again, within reason. When ideas that were discussed go out the window and new possibilities and story lines eventuate.

When you write an actual story, you need to have that direction and discipline to stay on course because writing stories and role playing are different things. I used to think they weren't but they have different intents. Most people wouldn't be able to read someone else's RP and make sense of it because often details are left out due to being discussed in private, as long as the two writers understand each other is all that matters.

In fiction you go into a lot more detail, flesh out backstories etc there are overlaps of course but the subtle differences are key.

 

[Mint]

A partner and I have plotted extensively, and I'll just say that lightly. We've probably culminated hundreds of thousands of words in plotting alone, and honestly I think it's helped a lot instead of if we just went in blind. I like the idea of knowing sort of what to expect because we've both agreed on plot ideas and points we both want to see happen. There was a point where we were plotting more than the actual story and this in turn hindered our progress, but we've mostly gotten back on track.

I say that plotting is a gift, if you find someone you actually enjoy plotting with extensively, use it! It's just so rare to find very passionate people in this craft (from my experience). People who want to transcend this as a mere exchange of words and really make a story together that can last for years and years to come. Don't over-do it like I do sometimes, but also don't skimp out on it.

It's exciting to read back and have partners who want to write as much back to you as you give them after all. I can't imagine going long-term into an RP where my partner just responds to everything I say in regards to plot and story too. It needs to be a cooperative effort and sometimes if you have too good of a chemistry it leads to over plotting, that's just my take though.

 

[Staine]

People here have hit the nail on the head here Goodman, the surprise factor from your partner is the biggest part of why overplotting can drain excitement from a roleplay. I do plot quite a bit but not all of it is with my partner, I have things in my head from the very first post that I want to put into the roleplay and part of the fun is that my partner doesn't know what's coming. It can be a double-edged sword, them not knowing means they can derail my plans by taking the story in a completely different direction or discovering something you wanted to reveal a little early perhaps, but that can be worked around and having to adjust your plans to fit them in can be just as much fun.

On top of that there is the excitement of how their character will react and the thrill of surprising your partner in a good way, making them enjoy their post so much more. Their reactions, no matter how well you know the person you're writing with, are an unknown variable for the most part and can lead to some of the best moments you can have writing which provide further inspiration and the excitement just starts to build again. Creating your own world is fun and I would never want to detract from that and the enjoyment people get from it, but for me it can never match the joy I feel when a roleplay hits that sweet spot because my partner and I are each tugging it along the same path but at a slightly different angle to create something neither of us could likely do alone.

Plotting too much in advance detracts from that. Plotting is essential, you need to have an idea of what you want to do but at the end of the day, our characters will be the ones deciding what happens in the best of our stories.

Hope that wasn't too rambly and incoherent.

 

[Your Succubu]

I prefer to only plan out the scenario. So, who the characters are, their relationship, and how things are starting. Other than that, I'll also usually plan out a general idea for where we're looking to go. For example, it's a story about office romance, with several scenes of build up before they get with one another.

I've heard George R.R Martin talk about this a lot in some interviews. He talks about how there's two types of writers: The architect, who plans things out before they write, and the gardener, who only has a skeleton idea, and they plant seeds, and watches how they grow as he writes.

I identify with the gardener approach, and he says he's a gardener as well. Potential super small Game of Thrones spoiler He's said that he had no clue that Bronn would play such a large role until he wrote it himself. Originally Bronn was intended to be a one-off background character.

 

[Seranda]

I like having a general outline. A roadmap of sorts.

Characters meet. Event happens. This much time passes. Other event happens. Climax. Descent. End.

That's not how I plan all of my RPs but I do want a general vision of what our characters should be up to during these times. Of course, my partners and I omit certain things, usually of the sexy variety where we can surprise each other with spontaneous acts of passion or violence. We have certain places to be at certain times, but we fill the in betweens with events, some on the fly. We know though, that after that event is done, they still have a task to accomplish or a certain thing to do. It's worked so far, and in my experience can really lengthen a story without useless fluff. Passage of time is important to me because characters meeting, fucking, saving the world, and having children shouldn't happen in a day or two.

 

[Gambuiness]

I know that some professional writers start with thinking about, how their story / book will end, before they start to write how their characters get there. But that is something you can only do when you have the absolute control over your characters.
In a roleplay, you don't have that. You set a story up, think about a background for your character and then the story begins. While some roleplays are started with a certain goal in mind (f.e., the couple gets together, a wild night, a few people starting their adventure), it is never possible to plan beyond a certain point since you don't know what your partner will respond to what you wrote.

So my idea is, that if you plan a roleplay too much, it feels for you as if your control over your character is taken away to a certain amount. If you planned that they will meet on day X at location Y, then your character has to be at location Y on day X. No matter if you think that your character would / should be at location B because it fits to your idea of the character or if your character should be there at time C. Planning too much is taking a bit of your creative writing away. Maybe that is where your struggle is coming from?

 

[Xanaphia]

Yeah ,sex is cool, but have you ever finally reached that set piece scene you've been planning since the beginning of the story, and now finally get to write it?

See, I am very confused about this complaint, because it really doesn't describe my experience in the slightest. I need a lot of planning to keep my interest in a plot, because I can't comfortab;y move forward if I don't know what my partner wants. In the past I have had many rps die out because neither player takes initiative to move the plot forward, and it languishes in a circle jerk of our characters just reacting to each other.

That said, I do think an outline should be flexible, and maybe that's the problem people on here have with the overplanning? They feel stuck in the track of plot they planned, and the story no longer feels as if it is organically unfolding? Or their concept of the character changed as they wrote them, and what they anticipated the character doing in a given situation no longer makes sense? I have definitely had that issue, and struggled as I tried to force my character into an action that felt necessary for the plot, but didn't fit their characterization.

I usually try to have a couple different options for future scenes, and see where the writing takes me. Sometimes it's easy to see which option is best once you get to that point. Sometimes you have to do some future planning cause and effect to decide between a couple different options.

That said, I am really curious how people how don't do much planning keep their rps going. Does someone sort of take the lead in pushing things forward, or does plot just take a backseat to the development of the relationship between characters?

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

I know that some professional writers start with thinking about, how their story / book will end, before they start to write how their characters get there. But that is something you can only do when you have the absolute control over your characters.
In a roleplay, you don't have that. You set a story up, think about a background for your character and then the story begins. While some roleplays are started with a certain goal in mind (f.e., the couple gets together, a wild night, a few people starting their adventure), it is never possible to plan beyond a certain point since you don't know what your partner will respond to what you wrote.

So my idea is, that if you plan a roleplay too much, it feels for you as if your control over your character is taken away to a certain amount. If you planned that they will meet on day X at location Y, then your character has to be at location Y on day X. No matter if you think that your character would / should be at location B because it fits to your idea of the character or if your character should be there at time C. Planning too much is taking a bit of your creative writing away. Maybe that is where your struggle is coming from?

Well, it's not a problem to be solved. Like, I am not asking for advice on how to correct something. This is how it is. Like I said, it's just something I know about myself and the way I operate but I wanted to discuss why things are this way, because I know I'm not the only one who has trouble continuing if overplotting happens. I wanted to explore the pieces and why it works for professional writers but doesn't for role-players.

My issue with overplotting is very rarely "Oh, I want to do something different but we already talked about it, so, I can't change the story direction." It's the opposite. We talked it out, came up with awesome plot points to have happen and maybe even made some awesome connections fit together in a poetic way. Or added in a fun and dramatic twist that will shake up things for our characters. It's all stuff I like, all stuff I want to see happen. But we planned it several scenes ahead in the story and now I have to write a post all the way back here in the current spot where none of that stuff has happened yet. And I'm excited for the other stuff we planned to happen but we can't really get there without knowing what leads up to it. Because you never plot out the nitty gritty details or specifics of dialogue or internal thoughts. But some of the details of later plot points strictly depend on stuff the characters do and say all the way back here at the current spot.

 

[Gambuiness]

So it is more like planning out something you are really looking forward to, then returning to the actual scene in the roleplay and (maybe) feeling disappointed that you are not there yet? Never happened to me until now, rather the opposit. If I am looking forward to something that will come up, then I am even more motivated to write my replies and take the steps to get to that scene.

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

Yeah ,sex is cool, but have you ever finally reached that set piece scene you've been planning since the beginning of the story, and now finally get to write it?

[...]

That said, I am really curious how people how don't do much planning keep their rps going. Does someone sort of take the lead in pushing things forward, or does plot just take a backseat to the development of the relationship between characters?

In answer to your first question, yes. It happens frequently, multiple times during a role-play story. In answer to your second, I think there might be some confusion over terms or not exactly understanding what other people's experience is in regards to this.

Because some plotting happens. We're not talking about an absence of plotting when we say overplotting kills the rp. A lot more of it happens privately, with each individual player having ideas for stuff to happen that they don't reveal, and it has an airy quality to it, where if something unexpected happens, it can change, adapt. A small percentage of plotting is shared with partners talking it over. A lot of players connect and agree upon a skeleton. This can take the form of a very loose bullet point list for a good bulk of the story, a little bit more detailed bullet point outline but only a couple scenes ahead of the current scenes being written, or just a general goal to aim and shoot for.

It is not uncommon to plan stuff to happen for your character and keep those things hidden from your partner. And yes, you have lots of options in mind, only decided upon once the "canon" changes as the story is written into existence.

It is not uncommon to talk with your partner and agree upon a direction or a loose bullet point list of scene A, scene B, scene C of "this would be fun/interesting to have happen next."

Overplotting happens when you talk with your partner about this bullet point list and either get into too much detail about stuff that hasn't happened yet or you plan too far ahead. Like, talking about emotional growth moments, talking about completion of character arcs and how you both want it to happen, talking about how an enemy strikes back later in the story and ruminating over how that will alter things for the main characters. Overplotting is specifically too much detail AND it is shared with a partner.

I can plot as far ahead as I like by myself, dreaming up what might happen when we meet the villain or some toxic abuse happens and my character has to deal with the repercussions, etc. and it doesn't affect my motivation. So long as I keep these detailed plans and deep thoughts to myself. I can share with my partner something basic like, "a showdown with the villain later" so we both move towards that. But if we get too into it and start gushing about possible reactions, it is like cumming too early and it spends the energy of the rp.

In general, I think if you have a passive partner, it is better to be the one to push and lead towards story goals. But I also have been in partnerships where we shared the weight of coming up with the story points. We discuss the skeleton, whatever form it takes, and can change it and add new limbs to it as the story goes. The only issue is when we start putting muscle and skin and hair on it before we're ready to write it out scene by scene.

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

People here have hit the nail on the head here Goodman, the surprise factor from your partner is the biggest part of why overplotting can drain excitement from a roleplay. I do plot quite a bit but not all of it is with my partner, I have things in my head from the very first post that I want to put into the roleplay and part of the fun is that my partner doesn't know what's coming. It can be a double-edged sword, them not knowing means they can derail my plans by taking the story in a completely different direction or discovering something you wanted to reveal a little early perhaps, but that can be worked around and having to adjust your plans to fit them in can be just as much fun.

On top of that there is the excitement of how their character will react and the thrill of surprising your partner in a good way, making them enjoy their post so much more. Their reactions, no matter how well you know the person you're writing with, are an unknown variable for the most part and can lead to some of the best moments you can have writing which provide further inspiration and the excitement just starts to build again. Creating your own world is fun and I would never want to detract from that and the enjoyment people get from it, but for me it can never match the joy I feel when a roleplay hits that sweet spot because my partner and I are each tugging it along the same path but at a slightly different angle to create something neither of us could likely do alone.

Plotting too much in advance detracts from that. Plotting is essential, you need to have an idea of what you want to do but at the end of the day, our characters will be the ones deciding what happens in the best of our stories.

Hope that wasn't too rambly and incoherent.

No, not at all. This was excellently put. And I agree. There is an element of rp writing that is all about the immediate validation of a partner, and the spontaneity of their ideas when they reply. And I also agree, despite the skills we employ overlapping, rp is more of a game. The object of the game is those things you get from feedback with a partner. Taking away the surprise of how they'll respond is like spoiling a part of the game, like how when you watch too many Let's Plays play throughs, or read too many game guides, you can lose motivation to finish a game.

 

[Xanaphia]

I feel like I have a better understanding of this phenomena, but it's still not anything I have ever experienced. I have a hard time believing that I could ever experience it. The more I gush and share with a partner, the more my love and drive for the story grows. The more I dissect my characters and their motivations or back stories or character development, the more I fall in love with them. The more I plan and diagram the plot and branching storylines and cause and effect and alternate timelines, the more I want to write and discover the story.

That said, I do have a tendency to hyper fixate on things, so it makes sense that this might not effect me the way it effects others. It may also be the case I have never reached that level of over plotting, because I only share 50-75% of my ideas with my partners. Not out of fear of overplotting, though, but mostly (95%) out of fear of annoying or overwhelming my partners, and partially because writing out all my thoughts for a given story is far more effort than merely thinking and fantasizing about it.

I have had exactly one partner drop our story because of overplanning, at least so far they told me. I have dropped many, many more because of underplanning, because few things rp-wise irritate me more than a meandering plot.

 

[Jericho Z. Barrons]

It could be a mix of both. There is some level of gushing that I can tolerate and still be super into the story. I've mostly noticed it in rp stories that are already several pages long, our characters have known each other for more than 10 days IC, and we've been writing together for a few months. And at THAT point, going far ahead and gushing together over what our characters are going to do, the emotional scenes, cute things to have happen, the culmination of dramatic conflict; it's partly that I know my characters and my partner's so well at that point, getting too deep into how we might crescendo or hit a climax of the story, or even how we might end it, it feels less like an exploration of a character and relationship dynamic that we haven't yet defined or fully fleshed out. It's wonderful and fun to talk about it but then I notice, in the days after that, less and less I am able to muster the excitement to sit and write it out. Because partly, we already did.

I have had exactly one partner drop our story because of overplanning, at least so far they told me. I have dropped many, many more because of underplanning, because few things rp-wise irritate me more than a meandering plot.

I can agree with this. I have had rps before where I remember being so proud of them and having so much fun while writing them.

I once had an rp partner that we wrote together for 2 or 3 years on one story. We started the story writing back and forth several times a day, adding new characters and layers. By the end, we were writing twice a month. But I was willing to wait and every time she'd post, I'd get inspired for it all over again. Because we never discussed anything that was going to happen. She had a private plan and helped direct us.

Going back and reading it, it is awful. It's not a story and for all the fun I had while writing it, it is chaotic and sloppy storybuilding. I can see my blind fumbling as I try to figure out her characters because she never told me anything in any sort of detail OOC, so I had to go by reveals IC. And I had no idea where she was going, so, the scene changes and road trips feel pointless and superfluous. I was constantly throwing stuff her way too, stuff she admitted was a wrench to her plans, but she fed off of that spontaneity.

So, I agree. I don't like meandering or pointless fumbling. I don't like looking over several pages and a month's worth of avid posting and feeling like the characters haven't done anything.

 

[Seranda]

Many people compare their characters to actors. To me, the planning is a very loose script. Sometimes a player may make a decision that throws the RP off course, and though the intentions are good, it may be something the other partner doesn't care for at all. Replies slow down, OOC's are left unanswered... and

Communication is everything to me, and having certain events to strive for make the path fun. There are always wild cards thrown in, but we have direction. My way won't work for everyone. Some like being thrown into a world and figuring it out as they go. I've planned as far back as I can remember, and usually my partners can understand when certain key points in the story are coming and we can prepare properly.

Say you want to set up an encounter between your partner's MC and the antagonist controlled by you. If there is no communication or planning, his character may well just not want that interaction then and there, and opt to avoid. Where you had a scene thought up that makes the antagonist look bad ass, and your partner's character look brave.

Should the partner be free to want to retreat if he wants to? Absolutely, but how does that move the story towards it's climax? It's ending? A retreat can be important if there is a form of redemption, but how do you know your partner wants to do that without some sort of communication?

Is overplotting a problem? Probably. Have I dealt with it? Not really. The more my partner and I share the better we can respond to each other. If something doesn't rub them right, they'll let me know, and vice-versa. It's not restricting any creative freedoms as those are compromised based on what your partner hopefully tells you the would and would not write about.

 

[Lady Irony]

See, I am very confused about this complaint, because it really doesn't describe my experience in the slightest. I need a lot of planning to keep my interest in a plot, because I can't comfortab;y move forward if I don't know what my partner wants. In the past I have had many rps die out because neither player takes initiative to move the plot forward, and it languishes in a circle jerk of our characters just reacting to each other.

That said, I do think an outline should be flexible, and maybe that's the problem people on here have with the overplanning? They feel stuck in the track of plot they planned, and the story no longer feels as if it is organically unfolding? Or their concept of the character changed as they wrote them, and what they anticipated the character doing in a given situation no longer makes sense? I have definitely had that issue, and struggled as I tried to force my character into an action that felt necessary for the plot, but didn't fit their characterization.

It's a very delicate balance for me. I need some plotting as many of my ideas are more complex and I don't like one dimensional characters who go about things in a very cliche manner.

Plotting for me is also a way to find out if I have chemistry with my partner. Can they express themselves in writing, do they have ideas of their own, are they interesting etc?

I find I can't just jump straight in with someone when there has been little to no chatter first.

As you mention in your second paragraph though, I am open and happy when new ideas come along during play. I call it "When a RP takes on a life of it's own" and I love that. When I am writing and all of a sudden a character just has to do something that wasn't predicted. Not something extreme that derails the whole plot or goes against their personality type but just a slight detour. I want the surprises and I mean surprises not shocks!

Balance and communication is key.

 

[RedRose]

I need an arc, or I know it turns weird or dead. I like some scenes to look forward to. I don't need or want to know every single detail.

 

[Staine]

That's what I prefer, a skeleton or roadmap of the RP, a few bulletpoints of important plot points and settings and then writing how to get there is what makes it more fun for me. There can he a hell of a lot inbetween these, I prefer that there is but at least we know kind of where it's going to go. Having no idea can be as bad as having every detail plotted out for me.

 

[Alien]

I need some kind of discussion. I don't want to feel like I have played it all the way out already but if for example I approach someone about one of their ideas and mention how I envision it etc and they come back with "Yeah sure. Sounds good" then that leaves me flat. I see it kind of like dating, you could easily date just about anyone who is in it for a free meal really but what you really want is someone who is just as excited to be there as you are.

 

[RedRose]

YES

 

[Breezi]

I think that sometimes, at least on my end, it's that I kind of fire off the coolest ideas in the plotting and do mini RP of it as soon as it comes up. So, instead of seeming like a cool moment that me and my partner built up to, it ends up as a box I checked off the moment it happens. I do like planning things out but I do find as soon as we start planning things out too much it just ends up a chore getting to the parts we really want to do. So, I'm trying to hold off on a lot of pre-planning with partners beyond major bits so that I can still enjoy RPs. It's a bit of a difficult balance for me because when I get ideas I love sharing them with people. So, like sometimes I'll just tell them all the plan and now we've got nothing surprising here because I've already said the coolest thing imaginable.

Another problem is that sometimes it doesn't leave a lot of room for things to happen. Which is why whenever I talk about anything in the future, I try being very vague about it or only do it as suggestions, otherwise I'll get ahead of myself and start plotting things waaaay before I need to and it's the problem I have with writing as well. ADHD brain is really fucking me over when I want to write stuff like that. I kinda dream about writing way more than actually writing,

 

[LunarStar]

While I do have specifics I like to see happen, or there might be a scene I'd like to play out either as a one-shot or during a long term RP, I don't outright try to tell them in too much detail anyway. Usually a gist of it is written on my RT of how a story starts and the general direction I'd like to see it go, but over all nothing would be determined throughout almost all of it.

I think some people take it a bit too far that talking about certain plots and moment in the RP that one or the other partner might like to see happen would mean it diminishes the fun side of it to eventually play it out. The way I see it, there's always a difference between just talking about it, making sure both partner are in agreement of it happening and actually playing it out in full detail. And who's to even say that what's talked about will happen like it's set in stone. There's always plenty of room for additional things to happen, maybe altering things about or by the time it gets there something else pops up to spice up what the idea was before.

Hell, I used to want to do a short little RP scenario and it had many ways to go about it. Even what people thought was boring slice of life crap.

Edit: Just to add another thing here. If anything, not talking about the RP for the sake of "surprise" or "to not feel spoiled" can and usually leads to disaster as the partner may take this as his or her chance to twist the RP into something you just don't want it to be. And then there goes your fun regardless.

 

[Alien]

Edit: Just to add another thing here. If anything, not talking about the RP for the sake of "surprise" or "to not feel spoiled" can and usually leads to disaster as the partner may take this as his or her chance to twist the RP into something you just don't want it to be. And then there goes your fun regardless.

It's definitely a balancing act between having enough of a road map to know you are both compatible as partners and know the general direction your headed in as opposed to just jumping straight in and not having a clue or your partner takes it in some crazy detour.

I have tried doing RP's with minimal set up and at times when they started I realized my partner (who was keen to start) didn't tell me the name of their character let alone age, description etc Not good when YC and their character are supposed to know each other!