Why are we never prepared for problems ?

[Pepperjack]

Because it's only a 'problem' when you're not prepared. If you had no food at home and no way to get to the grocery store, then eating would be a problem when it usually isn't.

IE: The lack of resources does not exist before the problem, rather the lack of resources is intrinsic to something BEING a problem.

 

[Alvis Alendran]

On the contrary. You are trying to sound intelligent by making it far more complex than it has to be. And yet, again, I am forced to repeat myself. You haven't made any points yet. Not sure if you have noticed the title of the thread, why are we never prepared? Think about that.

The public here think I am wrong? That is hardly cause for concern. I have been around these sites for a while now and I am aware that most people on them are very Left wing and rather zealous about it. I and many other conservatives have been banned from sites like this simply because the Admins and Mods did not like our politics. It never helps either that we were winning the debates. While you carry on about myself having to convince you lot, you don't factor in that your combined efforts haven't convinced me of anything.

I guess that is why I have been quite laid back in this discussion as I know it won't matter how many facts I bring forward. In fact, as I have seen many times, the facts often lead to people getting butt hurt and then the conservative being banned. I don't really care if I am banned or not. I just don't feel like that happening today or you having the satisfaction that you got rid of me.

I have tried having a discussion about this topic with you. You will, no doubt refute that but I have already picked up on the hostility displayed to me as I feel that I have disrupted people's safe places.

As an experiment though it has been fascinating. And I stand by what I said when I stated that people like yourselves are the reason why we are never prepared. Excuses, excuses, crying, focusing on the trivial and small mindedness.

I never wanted this to get into name calling attacks however, as you lot seemed to think that was appropriate I don't mind sinking to your level very briefly and giving it back to you.

Would you like to go crying to a Mod now?

This does not sound like someone on the high ground of a debate, this sounds like someone out of useful contributions and is trying to make it seem like if they're chastised for their work, that it's because someone 'couldn't handle the truth' when really I've yet to see anyone be actually disrespectful of you.

As an experiment though it has been fascinating. And I stand by what I said when I stated that people like yourselves are the reason why we are never prepared. Excuses, excuses, crying, focusing on the trivial and small mindedness.

At what point has anyone in this thread cried anything other than you crying victim? Trivial and simple mindedness? That's your claim, and yet you also claim to not be devolving into personal attacks?

If one looks at the world political stage, there's been an upswell for several years now of populist right wing leaders. So with those people starting to claim more an more power, why is it that it's somehow all the fault of left wingers that the world is unprepared for things?

On the contrary. You are trying to sound intelligent by making it far more complex than it has to be. And yet, again, I am forced to repeat myself. You haven't made any points yet. Not sure if you have noticed the title of the thread, why are we never prepared? Think about that.

Actually multiple points have been made in refutation of your points, fairly eloquently at that, while you've been catagorically refusing to provide any real answers other than it's all the left wing PC's fault.

The public here think I am wrong? That is hardly cause for concern. I have been around these sites for a while now and I am aware that most people on them are very Left wing and rather zealous about it. I and many other conservatives have been banned from sites like this simply because the Admins and Mods did not like our politics. It never helps either that we were winning the debates. While you carry on about myself having to convince you lot, you don't factor in that your combined efforts haven't convinced me of anything.

I'll actually admit freely to the existence of bias in many places online towards left wing outlooks, but the fact that you've opted to use that as a defense and counter point on a site you're been on for less than a year is...honestly, it doesn't look good. If you've been banned form many similar places int he past, it may not be because you're right wing, but rather because you're dismissive and combative in your responses when someone isn't agreeing with you.

As for you not being convinced, that's your business. you made a point that was somewhat flawed in ways, and when you were disagreed with, you dove into partisan politics.

I guess that is why I have been quite laid back in this discussion as I know it won't matter how many facts I bring forward. In fact, as I have seen many times, the facts often lead to people getting butt hurt and then the conservative being banned. I don't really care if I am banned or not. I just don't feel like that happening today or you having the satisfaction that you got rid of me.

I don't know what your internet experience is like, but if your debates there have been similar to here, I'm not surprised that things went poorly from you? You've sited no sources, made no points other than the constant declaration of 'left wing bad and at fault', and yeah, that can very likely get a person forcibly removed, especially if they wind up getting combative. And like it or not, you've been getting increasingly combative.

This is probably more response than is worth doing, and far more than anyone else is liable to get into.

You are not a victim here. You are not leading the debate with 'facts', you've provided nothing more substantial than anyone else has, and the recent declaration of how you expect someone to go 'crying for a mod' really seems like there's nothing more to whatever points you've been trying to make as it's devolved into an 'I dare you!' statement.

By the way, anyone who did approach a mod would be well within their rights to do so, but only since your last post.

So if you do face discipline, it's not because of a 'left wing conspiracy against the right!' and everything to do with your own conduct.

 

[Dirty Fingers]

On the contrary. You are trying to sound intelligent by making it far more complex than it has to be. And yet, again, I am forced to repeat myself. You haven't made any points yet. Not sure if you have noticed the title of the thread, why are we never prepared? Think about that.

The public here think I am wrong? That is hardly cause for concern. I have been around these sites for a while now and I am aware that most people on them are very Left wing and rather zealous about it. I and many other conservatives have been banned from sites like this simply because the Admins and Mods did not like our politics. It never helps either that we were winning the debates. While you carry on about myself having to convince you lot, you don't factor in that your combined efforts haven't convinced me of anything.

I guess that is why I have been quite laid back in this discussion as I know it won't matter how many facts I bring forward. In fact, as I have seen many times, the facts often lead to people getting butt hurt and then the conservative being banned. I don't really care if I am banned or not. I just don't feel like that happening today or you having the satisfaction that you got rid of me.

I have tried having a discussion about this topic with you. You will, no doubt refute that but I have already picked up on the hostility displayed to me as I feel that I have disrupted people's safe places.

As an experiment though it has been fascinating. And I stand by what I said when I stated that people like yourselves are the reason why we are never prepared. Excuses, excuses, crying, focusing on the trivial and small mindedness.

I never wanted this to get into name calling attacks however, as you lot seemed to think that was appropriate I don't mind sinking to your level very briefly and giving it back to you.



This does not sound like someone on the high ground of a debate, this sounds like someone out of useful contributions and is trying to make it seem like if they're chastised for their work, that it's because someone 'couldn't handle the truth' when really I've yet to see anyone be actually disrespectful of you.



At what point has anyone in this thread cried anything other than you crying victim? Trivial and simple mindedness? That's your claim, and yet you also claim to not be devolving into personal attacks?

If one looks at the world political stage, there's been an upswell for several years now of populist right wing leaders. So with those people starting to claim more an more power, why is it that it's somehow all the fault of left wingers that the world is unprepared for things?


Actually multiple points have been made in refutation of your points, fairly eloquently at that, while you've been catagorically refusing to provide any real answers other than it's all the left wing PC's fault.



I'll actually admit freely to the existence of bias in many places online towards left wing outlooks, but the fact that you've opted to use that as a defense and counter point on a site you're been on for less than a year is...honestly, it doesn't look good. If you've been banned form many similar places int he past, it may not be because you're right wing, but rather because you're dismissive and combative in your responses when someone isn't agreeing with you.

As for you not being convinced, that's your business. you made a point that was somewhat flawed in ways, and when you were disagreed with, you dove into partisan politics.



I don't know what your internet experience is like, but if your debates there have been similar to here, I'm not surprised that things went poorly from you? You've sited no sources, made no points other than the constant declaration of 'left wing bad and at fault', and yeah, that can very likely get a person forcibly removed, especially if they wind up getting combative. And like it or not, you've been getting increasingly combative.

This is probably more response than is worth doing, and far more than anyone else is liable to get into.

You are not a victim here. You are not leading the debate with 'facts', you've provided nothing more substantial than anyone else has, and the recent declaration of how you expect someone to go 'crying for a mod' really seems like there's nothing more to whatever points you've been trying to make as it's devolved into an 'I dare you!' statement.

By the way, anyone who did approach a mod would be well within their rights to do so, but only since your last post.

So if you do face discipline, it's not because of a 'left wing conspiracy against the right!' and everything to do with your own conduct.

No, it sounds like someone who knows how these poorly run forums work and knows from experience that sooner or later someone will go crying for a mod and I will get banned. If you bother to look through the posts you will see where the personal attacks started from.

I know you well Alvis. You are a troublemaker with Admin support.

 

[HenryJames0510]

I don't think we need to go crying to mods; I'm a conservative. But I like to have respectful conversations with people no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. I suppose more libertarian than c vs p.

Personally, the numbers don't add up. The government has come out with more revised data numbers and the original 'fear' instilled in people is now wearing off. Maybe we were more prepared than we thought; maybe we were not prepared enough. Now's the time to help each other though; love goes a long way.

 

[BlisteredBlood]

I ask this question . Not to be a smartass or anything . Why can't we ever be prepared for problems ? It always comes with we never have enough. There's a shortage or something like that . Just once I'd like to turn on the news and hear we have everything we need to handle this. The healthcare workers and people who keep the country running are doing a excellent job and when this is over deserve a raise!

You know something... You're definitely right about one thing. The news these says always seem to hinge on so many failures of what one political party did here, or what one person said there, and yet... It's never about the highlights of how we've come together as one, even if we're all miles apart and all sanctioned inside of our little houses. But no matter what one says or does, it's all the same thing. The same tired old bloody thing. It's almost revolting to be frank with you. There is some good news I can share, though. Of the 2.2 million cases of this "thing", there's been 600,000 people that recovered from it, but yet, it's always brushed to the side to focus on the sick, the dead and the dying and never anything about those that made full recoveries.

Personally, I couldn't give the faintest about the Cheeto-skinned blowhard in office as of now, just as I couldn't give the faintest about what the media thinks about him as it's all negative anyway. I would rather he does the job he was elected for and sees it through to the end, however bitter it may be. But I know full well people are going to be the way the are, so I say this. Whether we get out of this through witch doctor magic and voodoo spells or someone comes through with a genuine, true to life vaccination or hell, maybe even an outright cure for this, what I would love for people to do is to carry on with their lives. Weep not for the dead, but for those that are now forced to rebuild their lives as they are the ones who now need the support more than anything. The healthcare workers from doctors, nurses, the EMTs and everywhere in between have been worked to the bone and beyond that, yet, they continue to persevere as if it truly was the last night on earth. But it's not just them, in my honest opinion. The grocers who've been working themselves half to death to keep everything stocked, washed down and maintained. The delivery personnel like your day-to-day mailman, the UPS drivers, the FedEx drivers, and to some extent, the Amazon delivery people. I'd even like to extend a personal thank you to the policemen, the firemen, hell, even the National Guard who've all have tried their hardest to maintain some form of civility and peace throughout all of this. It didn't have to go to the extents that it has, but as of now, what choice was there? I could go into further details about this and believe me, I could. However, let's be honest with ourselves for once, clear the air and come to a central agreement on this and just say that all of this could've been avoided if China just learned to clean up after itself. No amount of money in all of the world is going to do anything to bring them all back and I get that, but if it means it helps in the healing process, then I suppose it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Dirty Fingers]

I don't think we need to go crying to mods; I'm a conservative. But I like to have respectful conversations with people no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. I suppose more libertarian than c vs p.

Personally, the numbers don't add up. The government has come out with more revised data numbers and the original 'fear' instilled in people is now wearing off. Maybe we were more prepared than we thought; maybe we were not prepared enough. Now's the time to help each other though; love goes a long way.

I was being respectful. Sadly, I have been attacked constantly and now the same vermin who launched the attacks are playing victim. Standard bullying tactics.
Then they wonder why people tell them to get fucked.

And you can bet your life if a Leftard were being attacked like this the Admin and Mods would come in charging.

 

[Yoga Princess]

I don't think we need to go crying to mods; I'm a conservative. But I like to have respectful conversations with people no matter where on the political spectrum they fall. I suppose more libertarian than c vs p.

Personally, the numbers don't add up. The government has come out with more revised data numbers and the original 'fear' instilled in people is now wearing off. Maybe we were more prepared than we thought; maybe we were not prepared enough. Now's the time to help each other though; love goes a long way.

I thought the government coming out with new data and moving back when the virus first killed someone here in USA was another scare tactic, but then they also said many more people have recovered from it so the death rate continues to drop.

 

[Shiver]

I guess that is why I have been quite laid back in this discussion as I know it won't matter how many facts I bring forward. In fact, as I have seen many times, the facts often lead to people getting butt hurt and then the conservative being banned. I don't really care if I am banned or not. I just don't feel like that happening today or you having the satisfaction that you got rid of me.

I have tried having a discussion about this topic with you. You will, no doubt refute that but I have already picked up on the hostility displayed to me as I feel that I have disrupted people's safe places.

I was being respectful. Sadly, I have been attacked constantly and now the same vermin who launched the attacks are playing victim. Standard bullying tactics. And you can bet your life if a Leftard were being attacked like this the Admin and Mods would come in charging.

I really don't think you're being persecuted for being conservative. People are challenging your comments because it's a discussion forum and your arguments have been contentious and a little glib from the start. You seem to use "the left" as a synonym for "whatever I disagree with," rather than addressing actual left wing views, which you even have backwards in some cases (for example, your insistence that market deregulation is a left-wing policy).

When you resort to comments like "go cry to mods" and "leftards" as soon as you face a little pressure, it really looks like you were never interested in the issues at all, and just wanted an excuse to "stick it to the libtards" all along.

 

[greybishop]

FWIW here’s my take on the OP. Back during the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-20 folks were still used to being born and dying in their homes, and so were not as insulated from the concept of death as they are today. (Infant mortality was higher back then, which is why I also mention at home births.) The U.S. Government and governments in general were also a lot smaller, so people did not expect as much from them for their tax dollars. Nowadays things are far different and thanks to government officials and politicians of both parties, many folks have come to think that Big Brother can protect everyone, everywhere, from everything, all the time if enough resources are thrown at a problem. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Consider this: over 150,000 people die each day around the world. (Source: WHO stats from 2016, the most recent year I could find.) And while about 100,000 of them pass from old-age related causes, the other 50K do not; for example over 3,500 people die each day in car accidents around the world. In the US the automotive death toll is a little over 100 a day, or 36K per year, with many more maimed for life on top of that. Yet how terrified is the average person of getting into their car, day in and day out? Not very, because they’re not being constantly told they should be. The world survived the Spanish Flu pandemic in 1918 and it’ll survive this one too. Might I or one of my loved ones die because of it? Yup. Might you or one of your loved ones? I certainly hope not, but it’s unfortunately a possibility. Should you take all the precautions you reasonably can to protect yourself? Abso-frigging-lutely. But should 100% of your mental bandwidth go into worrying about COVID-19? IMO no; there are still plenty of other very important issues to worry about too. Buying into the current round of fear mongering regarding this pandemic only helps those who thrive on that sort of thing. (And by that I very definitely don’t mean the actual virus.) But YMMV.

Good luck and stay safe!

 

[RedRose]

Goodness. I am not sure what's going on here. I am saying, using the cheapest material/workers isn't about being PC, one could argue it is not quite PC. I have encountered the concept in absolutely non Pc countries too (those that make the news for how "unPC" they are).

 

[taffy_felice]

Look, I know he's gone and this is piling on, but the top 7 producers of n95 masks are in this country, and I know at least honeywell and 3m manufactures them stateside. What a weird argument.

 

[greybishop]

@RedRose : “What’s going on here” is that some people of all political persuasions are trying to use the pandemic to advance their own agendas, vice focusing on getting through it together. IMO that’s been the “new normal” for awhile now in the United States. The days of bi-partisan cooperation are long gone and its “winner take all” now. As an example of an issue I think we should all be concerned about, this attitude has now permeated the press. At one time journalists were venerated for trying to accurately and objectively report “the news,” which is why they were included in the Bill of Rights’ First Amendment. Nowadays most mainstream media outlets try to generate mouse clicks and ad revenue by confirming what their particular audience wants to believe. This is regardless of political persuasion (both the left and right do it) and also the origin of the concept of “fake news;” if you think that outlets representing X are always objective, but the ones representing Y are always full of malarkey, then I have some swampland in New Jersey you might be interested in buying. This has left the average, rationally skeptical person in a quandary; who should they trust for objective “news” about what is really going on? My suggestion? Like they said in All the President’s Men, “follow the money.”

 

[RedRose]

Ha, not familiar with America so much...

 

[Tanakalian]

I have been self-censoring about this thread, for I didn't want to enter a shouting fest, which it turned out to be, at some point. But with one person removing him not only from this thread, but also from site, I think the time is right to give my opinion.

First and foremost, what, in my humble opinion derailed the thread at some point is the wrong asssumption that communism is the opposite of capitalism. That's as far from the truth as can be. Had communism been put against liberalism, we would have gotten a different discussion. Or conservatism versus progressive. But the ironic thing is that conservativism is often much more progressive than anything. It is wrong to think that being conservative means you want to stick to a current situation. In general, a conservative wants to change current situations, to change the way (as they say it) of the leftists. To go back (or forward) to a situation that was much more controllable. And any change of (political) situations, change is seen as being progressive. Funny that, don't you think?

The next thing, before I really go into the OP is the whole left and right discussion. It's a matter of perspective. I am Dutch, and our political landscape is as different from any other in the world as possible. We are used to coalition govenments. Even more, Since 1900 or there about, there has never been a one party government in The Netherlands. We've had left orientated, right orientated, centre orientated and even left/right combined governments. Currently there is a four party government, but that could be five or six political parties after the next elections. Who knows.
For me, as a Dutch man, the American Democrats are far right and the Republicans are extreme right. For an Amerrican the Democrats are left. Do you get what I'm saying? It's all a matter of perspective. Labour in the UK had a very left wing leader in Corbyn, but the party itself wasn't that left at all. Currently, around the world, there is a clear pull to the right, to conservative politics. Which still is pretty progressive. To change this whole globalization, to take care of your own people first. And while 'the people' of the world voted much more to the right, globalization couldn't be stopped. Companies were outsourcing, Moving production to low-cost countries, 'hiding' profits in low-tax countries. And then a virus hit.

It's never been a case, again, in my own personal humble opinion, of it hitting, it was just a matter of time. The world as we knew it six months ago, was so intertwined that any virus would spread into a pandemic. Were we prepared? Yes and no. Med-tech companies knew this was going to happen at some point, but they were the screamers in a desert (Apologies, I use Dutch sayings and this is the best translation I can give you). Most doctors, medics, the WHO, they all knew at some point this could happen. But, as it goes with things, they are laughed away. Things are good now, why worry about something that *might* happen at some point. Take the San Andreas vault under SanFran and LA. We all know the Big One is going to hit, one day. Causing an earthquake so big that the two cities might even vanish. But, when things don't happen for a long time. The last big hit was in 1906 I think, we people tend to forget about the risks.

The Spanish Flu of 1918-1920 (which is called that because it were Spanish doctors who recognized it as a virus, for the whole thing started in the US) started 102 years ago, barely anyone alive remembers that. And in all the years since, nothing really pandemic happened. So why should we worry? Well, look around yourself, this is why we should have worried.

Unfortunately there are some world leaders who think this is all a hoax, who come up with 'ideas' that are so ridiculous that they become dangerous. Belarus has a president who doesn't believe in COVID19 because he 'cannot see the virus flying around'. Bolsanero of Brazil thinks it's just a flu. And Trump? He 'sarcastically' said it would be good for people to inject themselves with desinfectants. The real bad thing about all this, is that there are people, those real fans of the people I just mentioned, who believe anything they say. If Trump says 'we all jump off the Hudson bridge to stop the spread of Covid19, you can bet your life on people doing that. Bolsanero calls for public gatherings, to prove it's only some flu and the media got it all wrong.

I totally agree with the post of @greybishop, he speaks true and honest words in this matter. Words of someone, again in this particular matter, who knows what he's talking about and not just shouts something. And that is often the problem. People stuck in their thoughts and just shouting something. Not because they are right or wrong, but just to overpower others who are not thinking along their own opinion.

Recap, I think enough people who are really knowledgeable about viruses were prepared, if they hadn't been, no country had been able to react so quickly on the whole situation. But unfortunately, politcial leaders around the world didn't think like they did. Starting with Xi Jinping way back when it started, all the way down to the line to a lot of them right now. In the same breath, we couldn't have prevented all this, but the number of deaths could have been much lower. If this, if that. Yeah, it doesn't work like that. We all got to deal the hand we've been given.

One last thing, not that I think anyone cares, but I class myself as left-wing in the Netherlands, meaning I am, for many people a far left person.

 

[greybishop]

@Red-Rose I apologize for assuming you were from the United States; that was clearly wrong of me. I hope that wherever you are, your people are working together to get through the pandemic. Stay safe.

@Tanakalian Thank you for the kind words, but more importantly for taking the time to share your insights on this matter. I've been lucky enough to live and work around the world, and have almost always found it enlightening to listen to other people's viewpoints. While I don't necessarily agree with all your points, I do like a lot of them and particularly appreciated your comment "We all got to deal the hand we've been given." You stay safe as well.

 

[Shiver]

First and foremost, what, in my humble opinion derailed the thread at some point is the wrong asssumption that communism is the opposite of capitalism. That's as far from the truth as can be. Had communism been put against liberalism, we would have gotten a different discussion.

I must respectfully disagree with this! Communism and capitalism are indeed precise opposites. Those terms refer to contradictory economic systems: communism features broad collective/public ownership in a planned economy, while capitalism allows broad private ownership in a free-market economy. You couldn't have a communist-capitalist economic system; they're mutually exclusive.

However, it's true that both communist and capitalist regimes could have other things in common. They could both be, for example, authoritarian. That's because neither communism nor capitalism necessarily implies a form of government. They're descriptions of opposite economies.

Apologies for going totally off-topic again.

 

[HenryJames0510]

I thought the government coming out with new data and moving back when the virus first killed someone here in USA was another scare tactic, but then they also said many more people have recovered from it so the death rate continues to drop.

Touche!

 

[MisterKing]

necro!

tl;dr: the people calling the shots aren't personally affected by these crises (no 'skin in the game'), so even though these crises affect a ton of people they usually get a low priority

general incompetence isn't exactly helping, either

 

[Staine]

The answer is pretty simple and has little to do with incompetence or the people up top being unaffected by it imo. It's resources. To prepare for every eventuality, and there are so very many of them that could happen, costs. It costs time, resources, money. It isn't feasible or reasonable to expect to be perfectly prepared for any crises that might come up and it's very likely that the ones we are prepared for, we hear very little about because they don't erupt like the current pandemic has. Because we were prepared, and it was handled.

I think we should have been better prepared for this considering it was warned about months before it happened, that a pandemic was a huge risk, but I also don't think it's reasonable for us to be fully prepared for every eventuality. The leaders of the world must pick and choose, prioritise, and they will get it wrong. This time, they got it very wrong.

 

[Lady Irony]

There's been mention of Governments and their lack of being prepared and it is true they do lack preparation in many cases and even after the fact they still stuff things up. In the state I live in Australia our State Govt. royally screwed up hotel quarantine and other things and we had the highest cases of CoVid and the longest and strictest lockdown of just about anywhere. They screwed up because they played politics over actual common sense as well as our Premier just being a goose in general.

But I also think about responsibility on a personal level. Even after CoVid was declared a real threat people still did stupid stuff, holding parties, trying to go to strip clubs which were closed anyway, organizing huge protests, going to work or restaurants etc when awaiting for CoVid results or feeling flu symptoms.

It doesn't take a Govt to help you prepare for that, the lack of common sense and greater community care is a worry.

 

[lightsenshi]

You really need to remember that the news really is "bad news". How often do you hear about positive stuff? Not very often. It's not when things go right that you'll know about it, only when things go wrong.

 

[Lady Irony]

The other problem with many news services now is they are aligned one way or the other politically speaking. You don't get many that simply report the news without any opinion or bias attached to it.