How much OOC Plot discussion is too much OOC Plot discussion?

[Lekhika]

Hi! So I was just going by my past rp experiences. I have been roleplaying in many mediums for about eight years now and I’ve found something common to all the mediums.

The more I discuss and plot a story OOC with a partner, the less I see it to completion. I don’t know why this is the case. Sure the ooc friendship is fine, but the more we plan out how a story should go, it feels like the element of surprise is lost and therefore the whole purpose to finish the RP.

I have a few great stories going and unsurprisingly it’s with partners who just delved into writing after a basic ironing out of necessary details. Every post from them is a surprise and I find myself engaged in the story. Surely I enjoy setting up plays like that!

And so I politely mentioned to some players that approached me to write with, that after a basic discussion of limits and likes, let’s just get to writing and see where the story takes us. This put them off, surprisingly. While I understand the need to get the basics hammered out, I don’t feel the need to plot out every move the characters make beforehand now.

I’ve found that doing that is fun, and the OOC back and forth in itself is good, but when it comes to the actual story, it fizzles out.

Am I alone in feeling this? Thoughts?

 

[Lekhika]

Interesting! I just felt like the partners that this happened with likely felt that the ‘fun’ was anyway over and failed to put in the effort. I’m still not lost of all hope though, it just seemed to be a curious correlation.

 

[Tanakalian]

I very often start writing during plotting, for the simple reason that I don't want too much panned out up front, the element of surprise is always fun, IMHO. But it works against me, as well, when I have posted a starter (I always seem to do that) and it's not what the girl I write with is expecting. It's happened on more than one occasion that after my starter I hear nothing anymore.

It's like @Solo says, each and everyone of us has their own preferences, sometimes more plotting is better, sometimes less is.

 

[Xanaphia]

I wonder what sorts of rps succeed with little ooc versus which kind succeed with copious and extensive ooc. I can't imagine writing a multi-character epic with multiple simultaneous plot lines progressing withpout an outline, and consensus about what plot points we want to touch on. I suppose if you are just looking for a story that focuses on a relationship between characters, there isn't much need to ooc outlining.

I guess if rping is just "What would X do in Y situation" then ooc planning could work against the desire to play it out. In my case, building up a rp to that scene my partner and I are discussing OOC, and playing it out is one of the best feelings. It almost never comes out exactly how I imagine it, but it's often much better, because it's informed by the characterization and details we have littered throughout the story.

How long do other's "non-ooc" rps last?

 

[Dirty Fingers]

In OOC what I am really looking for is "Can this person express themselves in writing, do they have some ideas and are we compatible".

I have found when a RP is discussed too much or in too much detail there is this feeling of "Do I still have to play it, it all feels like a foregone conclusion". I like some surprises and when the RP takes on a life of it's own and the characters just have to do things that neither myself or my partner thought of, if that makes sense.

 

[gelidAtelier]

I'm not so concerned with planning things out in advance, but I am very concerned with discussing OOC "where are things going now".

Because otherwise a lot of times I've ended up in endless scenes that don't seem to advance and my interest/focus plummets because I don't know what to do next, and feel like just ending it from my end for the sake of getting out of it wouldn't do things justice. Happens a lot of fights and sex scenes.

 

[Lekhika]

In OOC what I am really looking for is "Can this person express themselves in writing, do they have some ideas and are we compatible".

I have found when a RP is discussed too much or in too much detail there is this feeling of "Do I still have to play it, it all feels like a foregone conclusion". I like some surprises and when the RP takes on a life of it's own and the characters just have to do things that neither myself or my partner thought of, if that makes sense.

This totally makes sense. I enjoy the curve balls and it’s somehow a lot more motivating for me to keep the story going that way.

I'm not so concerned with planning things out in advance, but I am very concerned with discussing OOC "where are things going now".

Because otherwise a lot of times I've ended up in endless scenes that don't seem to advance and my interest/focus plummets because I don't know what to do next, and feel like just ending it from my end for the sake of getting out of it wouldn't do things justice. Happens a lot of fights and sex scenes.

Hm. I can see this. Although I’d be a bit put off of a player pokes me every post and asks what do we do now. I get that you’re not meaning that sort of badgering, so yeah a sort of ‘status check’ should be fine I guess.

 

[Lekhika]

But it works against me, as well, when I have posted a starter (I always seem to do that) and it's not what the girl I write with is expecting. It's happened on more than one occasion that after my starter I hear nothing anymore.

This happens too. But the point is it happens despite checking in with the player about specifics pertinent to the starter and then going about it with their agreement. I understand that maybe sometimes it’s not what they expect even after talking about it, but it’s just disrespectful to a persons time when nothing is heard back. It’s hard to weed out the sort of players that are uncommunicative in that scenario because they’ve been talkative af all through the planning phase.

 

[WaveVelour]

It’s no secret that some people like the planning part more than the RP itself. Over time, I got dramatically less talkative in OOC. At least for me, most players tend to leave the RP rather early. And I don’t feel eager to waste my time doing a thorough discussion for something that most likely wouldn’t play out anyway. Instead, I try to present a definite structure/outline on my current idea in my rt. Some people like to state just a pairing and invite you to a discussion for the plot, that’s also fine I guess.

I think it depends on the partner. If you have a reliable partner, a relatively longer OOC discussion might pay up in the end. Otherwise it’d be very well frustrating to ponder over a story if it’s going to last only a dozen of posts.

 

[vJack]

Oh honestly I get this all the time. A lot of times I happily plan a whole scene out with someone and then that scene never comes up because our sexual interest in it has been fulfilled. It's like we've RPed prematurely!

I think saying you just want to start is totally acceptable. Alternatively, if both RPers are really into an upcoming scene, they should just start that scene right then and play it out.

Pouring one out for all the RP ideas that got talked about OOC but never played out

 

[Lekhika]

Oh honestly I get this all the time. A lot of times I happily plan a whole scene out with someone and then that scene never comes up because our sexual interest in it has been fulfilled. It's like we've RPed prematurely!

I think saying you just want to start is totally acceptable. Alternatively, if both RPers are really into an upcoming scene, they should just start that scene right then and play it out.

Pouring one out for all the RP ideas that got talked about OOC but never played out

Hear hear!

 

[Sakome]

This is actually a really interesting topic. Does it tend to happen in shorter RPs or longer RPs? One on ones or kinda group RPs?

I'm new, but I agree with what a lot of people have said already, personal preference and the likes. I love not knowing what's going to happen, because it makes it a bit more organic and less scripted, but I like to know generally what's going to happen. Like say pivot points in the story where an important event happens. Once you get to know the same partner more, it can become less scripted since you know each other's styles and what each other likes.

 

[Dirty Fingers]

This is actually a really interesting topic. Does it tend to happen in shorter RPs or longer RPs? One on ones or kinda group RPs?

I'm new, but I agree with what a lot of people have said already, personal preference and the likes. I love not knowing what's going to happen, because it makes it a bit more organic and less scripted, but I like to know generally what's going to happen. Like say pivot points in the story where an important event happens. Once you get to know the same partner more, it can become less scripted since you know each other's styles and what each other likes.

More complex plots do require some plotting even if it is just to ensure that you are both on the same page in terms of what you want to explore and how you want to explore it. A lot of my ideas are erotic in nature yet aren't really about the sex itself. It's more about how the characters interact and deal with the crazy situations they have been thrown into. I am big on conflict and not making it easy for the characters.

A more simple plot or approach could probably have the two people start playing straight away with little discussion.

So the surprise or organic nature and making sure you are on the same page is a balancing act but overall I don't need that much information to be able to start once I have established that my partner and I are on the same wave length and want to explore the idea in a similar way.

There are never any guarantees though!

 

[skyfetcher]

I like an active OOC, but I like it for different things than the implications of the OP.
- Just conversation. I always go for it and it's always stronger than my writing strength. It doesn't have to be about the roleplay itself; indeed, that might be preferable.
- Clarity on anything confusing. I'm a meh writer and sometimes a decent partner will leave me confused, so a dynamic on this, as well as verifying current direction is pretty good for me, especially if it breaks agreed premise or makes for a serious change.
- Occasional brainstorming on future direction. Emphasis on occasional and the vague nature of 'future direction'. Actively writing about what may come next actually damages my ability to write what's next, because it feels I already wrote it. If going this way, I prefer to kick the can over what characters might do in what situation or comment on what might be nice to explore, but going further than that effectively drains what makes roleplay the medium as it is.

I find it most healthy when considering the above and having a relatively quick start based on an agreed premise and ironing out specifics in the first respective posts.

 

[Sakome]

That's true, I figured for say a one-on-one RP a longer conversation works best since there's a lot more interaction than say if you're in a group RP wherein say you're bouncing in and out of scenes with different people.

 

[drize]

Dang this is so relevant.
I'm new but I think some people want more consistency. Here's my noob theory: The people who want long RP's can leave "hooks" at the end of each encounter, a promise of what's to come.
Aside from that, Skyfetcher said something really cool: "Actively writing about what may come next actually damages my ability to write what's next, because it feels I already wrote it". That's totally it, right? Why would you want to do the same thing twice? Maybe plans just need to be more bare-bones. Idk, what if we condensed our planning by a factor of 10x and shrank it wayyyyyy down with more alternative paths? Just a thought, let me know what you think.

 

[Lekhika]

I’m enjoying reading all these takes on it. Thanks for your input guys.

What I’m hearing is that OOC discussion about story cannot be done away with entirely, but has to have limits so as to not take away from the process of writing. I’m working with this now, telling a partner that you’d rather write how the scene goes than discuss it, is fine. In the end to each his own.

 

[Sakome]

I think it also depends on how well you know the other person too. I had an RP partner wherein at the start he was a little more cautious and we'd hash out details a little more about what we'd like to see happen. After a while we didn't need as much detail since we both knew what we enjoyed and what would be fun without having to really set everything in stone. At that point we just kinda double checked and made set major plot points and let whatever we wrote take us from A to B and so on.

 

[Lekhika]

I think it also depends on how well you know the other person too. I had an RP partner wherein at the start he was a little more cautious and we'd hash out details a little more about what we'd like to see happen. After a while we didn't need as much detail since we both knew what we enjoyed and what would be fun without having to really set everything in stone. At that point we just kinda double checked and made set major plot points and let whatever we wrote take us from A to B and so on.

Fair enough. I have had some partners for years, of both kinds. One of them did a story with me on secondlife for like... two years. And I didn’t even have him “friended” on there. And another on a forum such as this, was very communicative and we even ended up writing over emails and such. So it’s a spectrum I suppose. One that’s so hard to wade through but yeah.

 

[Sabre]

I’ve had this happen to me in the past, multiple times, where I’ve planned out a story or timeline with a partner that barely got off the ground afterwards.

Ive always attributed the failure to lack of RP chemistry rather than overdoing OOC chatter and planning. Sometimes I can talk to someone casually and get along really well and maybe even get my ideas across just as I intended and vice versa, but then when it comes down to the actual writing something about their writing ‘voice’ or our characters just doesn’t mesh well and it’s difficult to stay engaged. So we did all that planning and now it’s kind like.. eh, this isn’t fun anymore let’s call it a night.

I still like to plan, but I think I no longer over plan for stories. Instead I will say, hey, what about plot point scene A, where my character needs to imply B and your character could do C. Then if my partner agrees we do that scene with the goal in mind but let how we get there, through it, and eventually out of it come organically.
How people get through stories without clear goals or a time line I have no idea because I’ll just straight run out of things to do in that scenario. On a similar note, how the heck do open group rps even function without some sort of DM?

 

[Lekhika]

I’ve had this happen to me in the past, multiple times, where I’ve planned out a story or timeline with a partner that barely got off the ground afterwards.

Ive always attributed the failure to lack of RP chemistry rather than overdoing OOC chatter and planning. Sometimes I can talk to someone casually and get along really well and maybe even get my ideas across just as I intended and vice versa, but then when it comes down to the actual writing something about their writing ‘voice’ or our characters just doesn’t mesh well and it’s difficult to stay engaged. So we did all that planning and now it’s kind like.. eh, this isn’t fun anymore let’s call it a night.

I still like to plan, but I think I no longer over plan for stories. Instead I will say, hey, what about plot point scene A, where my character needs to imply B and your character could do C. Then if my partner agrees we do that scene with the goal in mind but let how we get there, through it, and eventually out of it come organically.
How people get through stories without clear goals or a time line I have no idea because I’ll just straight run out of things to do in that scenario. On a similar note, how the heck do open group rps even function without some sort of DM?

This is entirely another issue. I agree. It even recently happened to me. We could talk OOC alright, but the writing just didn’t click and then honestly I was grateful that we got along OOC so that I could tell the person straight up that it wasn’t clicking. And they took it well and we still chat OOC as friends. But what I’m saying is the whole “I’ve already discussed and done this. Do I /have/ to write it now” sort of laziness. That is what makes it sad.

As to Group RPs and DMing, it’s very difficult to rely on everyone to pull equal weight in the story. It just won’t move as well unless the person with the original idea creates a world and runs it per se. Which can be rewarding in itself. Here too ooc communication comes into play when we have to understand the scenario, the world, etc and not much else is needed in terms of discussion.

 

[Anglemarr]

I enjoy knowing where we're going to a certain extent, even if its just "Surprise incoming, go with it " Several times without planning anything I've inadvertantly ruined a scene for a partner because I didn't get what they were going for. I also prefer high level planning "Let's get them to go on holiday" or "Take her out to dinner ", the blow by blow stuff can sort itself out.

 

[Lekhika]

I enjoy knowing where we're going to a certain extent, even if its just "Surprise incoming, go with it " Several times without planning anything I've inadvertantly ruined a scene for a partner because I didn't get what they were going for. I also prefer high level planning "Let's get them to go on holiday" or "Take her out to dinner ", the blow by blow stuff can sort itself out.

This. Totally. The overall idea, likes, dislikes, post frequency, things like that once hammered out? The rest should be fine with just the reassurance of an ooc channel to fall back on to deal with things as they crop up.

The reason I made this post was that I had a few instances where when I wanted to jump in and write a starter after that level of discussion, people took offence to it. It caught me off guard and I was wondering if what I was suggesting was unanimously considered rude. Now though I make sure to tell people that this is how I go about it. Take it or leave it. And it’s been good

 

[Anglemarr]

This. Totally. The overall idea, likes, dislikes, post frequency, things like that once hammered out? The rest should be fine with just the reassurance of an ooc channel to fall back on to deal with things as they crop up.

The reason I made this post was that I had a few instances where when I wanted to jump in and write a starter after that level of discussion, people took offence to it. It caught me off guard and I was wondering if what I was suggesting was unanimously considered rude. Now though I make sure to tell people that this is how I go about it. Take it or leave it. And it’s been good

I feel the first post needs a little more oomph, I like laying the groundwork, setting the scene for the entire RP, What's the general expectation? Are you expecting my character to come in dick swinging and take you? Or a slower build up to show some charm / unpleasantness?

Again, not a blow by blow recount of the scene, but enough that I can set a course for the right destination, rather than pointing that way and going "away!"

 

[Degusaurusrex]

Depends on the partner. I have one partner where weve done extensive plotting and even if half the ideas never get off the ground, it's worked very well for us. We've built an entire world out of our story. I have some where just random check ins suffice. It all depends how well you click with a person and writing together, in my opinion.