Anti-Prejudice Prejudice?

As Day Fades

As Day Fades

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Feb 7, 2009
I have had this thought brewing in my mind for awhile now, something I am still not entirely sure where I stand on, and one I would value others' intake on. It's something that many people get upset about, the mere suggestion of it, if it's even brought up. Namely, a prejudice against white males.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/26/texas-group-to-offer-coll_n_828684.html

A small group is trying to start a scholarship in Texas for applicants who fall into that race and gender. Is this prejudice? There's tons of scholarships out there that concentrate on people of a specific racial background as well as plenty for females. I don't know how I feel about that. I think that's prejudice too, right? I can understand scholarships aimed at, say, people that live in a low class environment, people who would not have that sort of opportunity otherwise. But there's a lot of guilt associated in America with being white, and just as much with being a male. Is something like this actually prejudice? Or can one group be selected out and boosted up without others being held down in the process?

I've never been in a situation before where I was applying for scholarships, but it's impossible to not notice all of the ones out there that I'm not eligible for due to my gender and skin color. Is that not racism? Sexism? Affirmative Action was a great idea in theory, but just as many opportunities as it may or may not create, it can equally put the wrong people in the wrong positions. I myself was a victim of that a few years back; I had worked my ass off for a specific promotion for a long time, even filled in as a temp for the spot for a lengthy period to prove I could do it despite my age, and showed the best results out of anyone prior to me in the position for the fifteen or sixteen years the place had been open. I lost the spot, however, to a 1) female, who 2) happened to be black and 3) six months pregnant at the time. Without digressing from my main point too much to really elaborate on why she was thoroughly unfit for the position, let me sum it up with this: it was a job that dealt half with customer service and half with being professional in a management environment, yet here was someone who spoke in ebonics. After the decision was made, I had several people present during that roundtable meeting come to me as an aside and tell me the only reason she was chosen was because management didn't want to risk being sued ala Affirmative Action; she being a pregnant black woman and me a young, white male.

I refuse to feel guilty because of my gender and skin color. I understand this is an awkward topic for a lot of people. My specific experience I just explained, I feel, is neither the exception nor the rule -- I feel it's something that happens probably about as often as it doesn't. On that note, I think I support these guys for trying to shine a light on the fact that it's prejudice to exclude one group from having an 'us only' kinda thing going on too. I would much, much rather any exclusion of the sort be dropped from all scholarships, or anything for that matter, and have it based solely on...I don't know, whoever earns it? But how do we get there? This is a step in a direction. Is that direction right or wrong, though?
 
I don't mean to laugh, but did you say she spoke in ebonics? Lol. I've heard about this many times over in which case a more polished white male loses an job opportunity to a minority just because they were minority. It wasn't meant to leave white men jobless and angry. AA is suppose to help those who struggle more than you to get a job....get a job. I understand it being called reversed racism, but that's not the aim.

It's hard out there for black pregnant women. It's always been. Much harder for her than for you possibly.


Like you said there are scholarships targeted to certain groups of people. White people have a lot of freedom in most cases. Back when color was important no institution wanted to admit that they were prejudice even if they knew they were. They have scholarships for artists only, communication majors only, and athletes. What's the difference in colored only scholarships when there are so many others available out there to you?
 
It's hard out there for everyone, not just black pregnant women. It's easy for a select handful of people lucky enough to be born into a certain class, but for the rest of us, let's be honest, shit's hard. To suggest that it's not hard for me too is to go about your day wearing blinders.

I'm certain it goes both ways. At the time AA was introduced it was much more prevalent, but as a still-young man who's been in the workforce for about a decade now, I just don't get the feeling it's as necessary as it once was. Maybe it is necessary, but not in the way it's being incorporated in the real world, an issue of practive vs. theory. Maybe the problem is how people abuse it though, and how companies will stack the deck, so to speak, so they have one of this, one of that, to avoid lawsuits, frivilous or non.

I don't mean to make the topic about my specific example. It was simply that, an example of how even though I'm 'privileged' as a white male, I can get held down too. I don't feel my race or gender has ever helped me in the things I've accomplished.

Certainly, certainly there was a time in our history when minorities were held down. No doubt. There is no argument there. There was a time when laws like that were wholly necessary. My open wonder is if it still is, though? As people who grew up in a racist atmosphere grow older and leave the workforce, it becomes populated with generations that were raised in a different atmosphere, one that encouraged equality.

Yes, there are scholarships that concentrate entirely on people who show an artistic talent and are going for an artistic major, or people who have yadda yadda ability and are going for yadda yadda, but that's a stark difference. Specifically, that's something we can help. If I had practiced for years at playing a cello, or hunkered down and studied math, or practiced hoops until I was good enough to hit three-pointers consistently, and such and such college wants to beef up their basketball team, I feel that's a fair reason to offer incentives to recruit someone. That falls under the umbrella of finding the right person for the right job, though in this case the job is the prestige of the school. In contrast, what I feel is unfair is something I'm ineligible for due to things impossible to control, namely my racial background and gender(modern science aside!).
 
(Edited out stuff personal and potentially inflammatory)

Get creative with scholarships, there may not be one where you are for white males but there might well be one for the field you want to go into or the religion you are or were raised. If people want to create a scholarship for white males let them. However if they don't like being told about the statistics out there about higher education and who wins and who doesn't then they need to "man up."
 
"Reverse racism" is a misnomer. Also, what's the big deal about ebonics? It's an accent confined to a specific cultural group. Speaking an accent is a poor reason to deny someone advancement in an organization.

rac - ism
[rey-siz-uhm]

–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

re - verse
[ri-vurs]

–adjective
1.
opposite or contrary in position, direction, order, or character: an impression reverse to what was intended; in reverse sequence.
2.
with the back or rear part toward the observer: the reverse side of a fabric.
3.
pertaining to or producing movement in a mechanism opposite to that made under ordinary running conditions: a reverse gear; a reverse turbine.
4.
noting or pertaining to an image like that seen in a mirror; backward; reversed.
5.
noting or pertaining to printed matter in which what is normally white, as the page of a book, appears as black, and vice versa.
 
'Oh dear lord she spoke in ebonics!'

-_-

Had to get that out of the way before moving on.

[ Possible rant warning ] Anyway, yes it is hard right now for everyone but what some people don't realize, and many people refuse to realize is, it's harder for some people out there based on skin color. Harder to get acknowledged, respected, work your way though the world, and then the basic things like get a job or even help in a shoe store. It's been that way for a long time now and it's not going to change any time soon, or at least not until society does.

I believe that's why there are so many scholarships out there for certain ethnic groups, why there are 'African American college tours' and 'Hispanic college tours' and colleges out there that will happily promote that they are a historic [insert race here] college. Because things are harder for certain groups of people and they need more help then others, Does this apply to everyone of some ethnic groups? No, certainly not. But in a lot it can be considered for the majority.

[ On topic ] If a group wants to make a scholarship for white males then I don't see why there would be a big deal about it. If the NAACP can do it for African American males and females I don't see why anyone would want to make a fuss over a group doing it for Caucasian males. I can see how some people would make a fuss over it, possibly saying that they [white males] have it well enough and don't need help, but that's just stupid. Anyone can need help, doesn't matter what their race or gender is.
 
Back to ebonics real quickly though. It's actually a much older language

In the book of John the Lord replied" I be he". Just wanted to add that.
 
It's not an affront to create scholarships and classify them however you wish. However, you have to consider the reasons and motivations of a group doing so. Are you the sort of person who wants to go to school on the dime of people who support the Flat Earth theory, for example? Who believe lemurs should be raised to power? Who think women should be pets? These are random and humorous examples, but that's my point. Private groups can create any scholarships they want. And there will always be people who'll take that money just to get the education.

But if you've got a "white male" scholarship, just bear in mind that you're going to have, let's see, more qualified candidates than you can process. Best put on some additional qualifications on that. Texan, OK, that's fine. Still, you're gonna spend most of the money you've received paying for someone to process all the applicants you get.
 
i like the idea of this scholarship. It's gotten to the point that everyone BUT white males, (what I am) get extra help.
Because EVERY white male is strong intelligent and/or wealthy. .... right...
I would also like to say on a side note, why is Hispanic considered race AND ethnicity on job applications? All the other races are considered NOT Hispanic. this is SO stupid.

But seriously, white males have to work three times as hard as everyone else and still don't get promotions just so companies can save face.

I guess my problem, like others, is being a white male who did not get straight A's and having a lack of real job experience, I have a seriously harder time getting ahead in life just because I am considered a "majority", although I doubt we are anymore.
I think colleges and companies need to re look over things and change things. Ya, like that will happen.

Sigh, I wish I could add more intelligence to this conversation. >_<
 
Chaos_The_Chosen_One said:
i like the idea of this scholarship. It's gotten to the point that everyone BUT white males, (what I am) get extra help.

But seriously, white males have to work three times as hard as everyone else and still don't get promotions just so companies can save face.

I guess my problem, like others, is being a white male who did not get straight A's and having a lack of real job experience, I have a seriously harder time getting ahead in life just because I am considered a "majority", although I doubt we are anymore.

Sigh, I wish I could add more intelligence to this conversation. >_<
Click to expand...

I have quoted what I deemed important. You have to realize what privileges Caucasians get in the Western world. There are many, many more than people of different races/ethnicities get.

As a male: You may dress (nearly) however you want and not be considered a slut.
You may be in a position of authority and not considered: a bitch, having slept your way to get there, or unfit.
(if you are heterosexual) You may speak about your romantic/sex life and not be seen as less of a person.
You are MORE likely to be promoted if you have a child.
You may walk alone at night relatively fear free.
You are more likely to be given cheaper prices at male-centric stores (car shops, outdoor stores, certain shoes, etc).
Your descriptor word (Mister) does not denote ownership or class the way Miss (young, unmarried), Misses (old, unmarried), or Mrs. (any, married) does.

White: You will get better prices on bank loans and easier time with credit.
You are much more likely to get higher positions in top companies (if you work in them).
You have access to more "old X" clubs as many are still predominantly caucasian.
You are not seen as uneducatable, a lost cause, a criminal, or a rapist by your skin color alone.
You have no (common?) racist jokes about you. (If you do, please tell me!)
Your culture is the dominant (and thus "correct") culture where you live.
You are the standard of beauty that everyone is held to.
Your skin color is called "flesh" in makeup.
You can get a loan much more easily.
You are the "norm."
In the west you are the majority.


Yes, world wide white people are a minority. In the west, especially Europe, US, and Canada, we are the majority. I say "we" even though I am a mixed breed because I look predominantly white and, honestly, I'm damn glad I do because it grants me privileges that looking Asian would not get me.

In the Fortune Fivehundred Companies, there are currently four African american CEOs, Two Asian CEOS, and Two Hispanic ones, along with five females. Of those females 3 are either african american, asian, or hispanic, bringing the total of non-white male CEOs in those companies down to 7.

Yes, it is hard in the world. But in the west people without white skin tone, and women, face discrimination much harder than you do. Often much harder than I do if I stay silent. As a mixed breed gay male I am a "two strike" rule that can become a one strike rule if I shut my trap about being Asian. Yes, if I LIE about my ethnicity, I can basically fit in. If I lie about my sexuality I could do much better.

If you are a heterosexual white male living in the US is much easier. Yes, you may not be the richest person ever, yes you may get passed up by minorities, but to bitch about it is stupid.

The reason there aren't any white male scholarships is that, in general, white men don't NEED them for being white males. White males aren't born primarily in poverty. White males don't have a 52% chance to be raised by neither of their parents like native americans do, white males aren't the largest population in prison, white males aren't scapegoats used for the economic crisis.

If you want to bitch about jobs bitch about the companies that send all the work over to third world countries where they can get away with cheaper labor. THAT is why there are fewer jobs over here and why so many jobs closed down. Not because of Mexican immigrants, not because of Muslim extremists, but because of greed.

In general, if the white male scholarship gets passed, who cares. Fuck, I'll sign up for it. I'm not rich and since my mother is white I'm considered white by American standards. But honestly, look around and do some research, white people don't have it hard compared to so many others. Yes, there are white people who DO have it hard, I will admit, but they themselves are a minority (depending on how YOU define "hard").
 
This is a point. In America, there's a vast poverty class, a huge lower class, a decent middle class, a small upper class, and a tiny top class. Necessarily, a certain percentage of white people (male and female) live in poverty, and a certain percent of them are in the top tax brackets. A certain percent of African-Americans, Asians, Hispanics, etc., can say the same. But in America, the percentage of each is way disproportionate. All the minorities, have a much higher percentage of their populations in the lower income brackets, and a much lower percentage in the upper income brackets, when compared to whites.

It's easy to claim that white males have to work three times as hard as others. But that ignores ... oh, all statistics and basic facts, and reflects a clear lack of understanding of how hard others actually work. Yes, you get some people who get promoted for reasons of race or sex or "saving face" who don't actually deserve it. I would say it's roughly equivalent to the number of people who get promoted because they're the CEO's nephew, or fucking the Senior VP, and those people also don't deserve it, and you should be angry about that, too. It happens, but it's hardly universal. And talking like it is just basically plays right into the wallets of the people who feed on your fear and feelings of dispossessment. So thanks for helping them, I guess.

In my company, we have a very diverse work force... until you get into the executive pay levels, and then the demographic gets quite standardized. And I know for a fact that a lot of those guys don't work nearly as hard as many of the other people I work next to.
 
My apologies for not getting back to this sooner; 'net issues were pretty bad for about a solid week.

I'm not sure what to feel. I see a lot of solid points here on both sides. I think this is the kind of thing where a lot of different opinions can all be valid at the same time.

I enjoy seeing the open, mature discourse on the topic.

I think the main hold up for me comes when people mention that 'only X% of this or that are made up of Y kind of people.' The kneejerk response in my mind is, "...so?" And this, let me explain, is because I strive to see people as colorless and genderless. If there are however many supervisors in a building and more than half of them are white males, is it necessarily because someone else is being unfairly held down? Is it possible they were better suited for the job? I'm not saying they are. I'm not saying they aren't. I don't know what to say, other than that to me, as a white male, it feels like people who aren't in my specific 'group' throw out the discrimination card too readily, too often, and as such it muddies the water for those who have a legitimate claim, ala The Boy who Cried Wolf. Again, I do believe that it is a real issue often enough, on a conscious level, on a subconscious level, for many of the points Misan made. But I've seen so many people jump to use that kind of claim because they're only 'good,' not 'good enough' for what they're after, and that lack of self-responsibility makes things more difficult for everyone.
 
Ahem. New to BlueMoon, but as a white male who has this as a pet peeve, lemme contribute.

Yes, valid points on both sides. Yes, I believe as a white male, I get certain breaks. However, I haven't gotten hand outs for it. I also was born in Louisiana. Most of the kids in my elementary school were black. I've experienced racism first-hand in a way most white people don't, though I'm not trying to say it was that bad, I at least have a small understanding of it.

When it comes to the workplace and such, I'm just not sure. I think both sides are right here. People shouldn't be held down or lifted up because of race, but this is not an ideal world, and some people do have it harder. What happened in the topic creator's example was wrong. But it happens. It's life, it's unfair, it sucks.

I don't know about AA and NAACP and all. I think these guys in Texas have every right to do what they did. And to say that they can't, when everybody else does, is ridiculous and yes, that is racist. As someone said, looking at definitions, 'reverse racism' would actually mean loving someone because of their skin color. It's what white people who owned plantations felt about their own race. If you treat someone negatively or differently due to skin color, it's racism, regardless of the colors involved. Even if it's your OWN color.

I think the BIGGER issue people ignore is the accepted racism in speech and media, especially comedy. Go watch any modern American black comedian. 99% chance that a good deal or most of their material is making fun of a race, be it their own or more commonly caucasians. Now look at the modern white comedians. The ones in stand-up only make fun of white people, most of the time. And the ones with sitcoms? Their whole schtick is 'look, I'm white and male, therefor disgusting, slobbish, and a complete moron'. To be fair, black sit-coms do this a whole lot too, so this is more centered on sexism than racism.

Warning: Racial epitaphs ahead. No offense meant, I'm just using the words to explain my point.

In short, a black guy can call me a cracker and society is okay with it. But if I call him a nigger, suddenly I've done something wrong. This applies with any combination of me and a minority. Hispanics, asians, they could all get away with addressing me by a racist slur, but if I do the same people will gasp in shock. This is what truly irritates me. Not because I want to use racial slurs, I do sometimes as part of jokes with friends who know I don't mean it, but that's it. It annoys me because it is racism, and it is accepted, and most people don't even realize what it is.

Lifting up and putting down based on birth all aside, that's what I think we need to change first. The unconscious mindset that it's okay to assume a white male is automatically evil. I am not my ancestors, why am I being treated as if I were?
 
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