Parenting and Work

So this happened to me today.

I was talking just before with one of my female friends, she's a full time caretaker for this mother a little out of town. She owns a series of hair salons in the area, about 8 different establishments, each doing quite well so as you'd imagine she is a busy woman, she spends about 10 hours a day working and on weekends the children stay with their father who's an electrician.

anyway, this is what happened.
she called me earlier today in tears and wanted to talk to me about something that happened, those kids she's paid to take care of, they've come to identify her as their mother instead of their actual mother, today their actual mother took a day off work to spend it with her kids, and long story short, they cried, they threw tantrums etc... and one of them dropped a line that caused my friend to be fired and be threatened by the mother, the kid said "you're not my real mommy! (my friend) is my real mommy!"

She had spent so much time working that she had completely alienated her children, most of the time she would come home after the kids had been put to bed and gone to sleep, and she was gone in the morning before they woke up.

now with their father, even before the divorce he didn't see the kids all that often but they still very strongly identify him as their father and love him deeply, but with their mother focusing so much on her work they completely disregarded her as their "mother" I've even heard them refer to her by her name, not as "mommy".

Now comes the point of discussion, should this be acceptable? should the mother cut back on her work so she can try and re-connect with her kids? or do you think the kids are acting spoiled? (there are three kids, 2 boys of 10 and 9 and a girl of 7) and what do you think this might say about our society as a whole? where more and more children spend their whole days with strangers (child care workers, nannys etc...) because their mothers would rather be working full time etc...?

she works full time because the little girl has a mental disorder so she is/was home schooled by my friend who was also trained when the poor little thing had a fit.

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My personal opinion is that, no matter the parent (I posted about the mother because it's a gleaming example of this I know personally) Parenting and Work should be balanced out. with mothers especially children must identify with and almost always rely on their mothers for help in their young lives, this is a natural instinct and while fathers can take that place, it doesn't come as naturally.

If a child has a learning disability to the degree they need to be home schooled, then a parent should be home at all times, even if this means sacrificing work time in order to make sure their child is properly cared for.

I think that the role of parent should never just be left down to taxable labor, childcare like nannies and the such should only be for occasions, to prevent especially young children from associating their nannies and the such as their parents. Taxable labor should never replace parenting in my opinion, like what happened with my friend here.

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Here's a bit of data.

http://www.franchising.com/articles/child_care_franchise_growth_soars.html

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/growth/economy/19415-baby-steps.html

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What about you? do you think it's fine for the role of parent to be given to someone paid to take care of them? do you think parents should be putting spending more time with their kids over fewer work hours? or do you think I'm just some "women shouldn't work" etc... sexist like others have called me when I told them about this?

Note: I am NOT saying women shouldn't work, I realize I didn't phrase some bits of this as good as I should have and I've made the adjustments. I use mothers as the example here because as I said in my personal experience it was the mother who didn't make time for her children.

Ivory11 said:

Parenting and Work should be balanced out. with mothers especially children associate the role of "mother" to be the nurturer, while the role of "father" is associated with the Provider.

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I am going to focus on this quote.

Children have no associations mentioned above between those roles until told of them, they have no concept of the nurturer/provider concept of society until they are much older and now the industrial days are over these roles are no longer needed, parents need to be good parents regardless of sex or positions placed on them decades ago, positions like this also start to hurt the father figure in in households where there are one.

As a child both my parents worked the same hours and for a time my mum worked more, there was no permanent bring the bread position between them and as a child until school taught me of this they were no more than parents I just happened to relate to one more than the other.

You started off good with the beginning of your sentence then kinda crashed and burned mid way.

There's a lot here I find baffling. I'm a parent and mother and fortunate enough--for the time being--to be in a position where I can stay home with my children. However, NOT everyone is this fortunate. And those who do need to work are still sacrificing for the betterment of their children so as to provide them a safe and happy home. Sometimes parents both need to work in order to ensure an appropriate income so as to provide their children with specific needs and getting someone to assist is cheaper in the long run as opposed to having one parent stay home. Also, who isn't to say it cannot be the father who stays home? I know fathers who do and this has had no impact on the development of the children with either parent. Likewise, I know children who come from homes where their parents are doctors and lawyers, etc. and they hire nannies to stay with their children from sun up until dinner time. And these children adore their parents, especially their mothers. Now, this is first hand experience. Things I've witnessed. So everything being claimed above and by me is subjective. However, I think that is the point here. It's all subjective and a matter of situation. If a parent is willing to put in quality time and make it clear to their child that they love them... that child WILL know. Children are so much smarter than people give them credit for. They absorb and notice so much and a little goes a long way. They know when you are sacrificing for them, doing for them, etc. They are amazing individuals that way.

with mothers especially children associate the role of "mother" to be the nurturer, while the role of "father" is associated with the Provider.

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I heartily disagree. Growing up my mother was both the nurturer and the provider. She worked incredibly hard while I was growing up to make sure there was food on the table, a roof over our heads and that I got the tools I needed to get a shot at success. Very few of my friends had stay at home moms, particularly the older we got the more likely it was for mom to enter the workforce again.

I watched my mother give up a lot of her personal dreams so that I could have a shot. I don’t know anything more nurturing than sacrificing for your children, if even at the outset it appears that your mom favors work over spending time with you. This is not the case. I think parents choose to shield their children, for the most part, from the financial realities of their situation. Why would you want your kids stressing over money?

If a child has a learning disability to the degree they need to be home schooled, then a parent should be home at all times, even if this means sacrificing work time in order to make sure their child is propperly cared for.

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I strongly disagree. Children with disabilities, be they learning or otherwise, require a lot of resources not just financially, but also in terms of navigating managing that disability. There are many, many careers that focus on working with the disabled and it does require a special skill set and training that most people don’t have. Would you rather have a parent to home school their children without a background in education—particularly without the expertise to most effectively manage whatever disability is present, as in this case—or would you rather have a parent who worked to make sure their child received the best care possible?

I think that the role of parent should never just be left down to taxable labor, childcare like nannies and the such should only be for occasions, to prevent especially young children from associating their nannies and the such as their parents. Taxable labor should never replace parenting in my opinion, like what happened with my friend here.

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Have you ever heard the phrase, “It takes a village to raise a child”?

For most people their adult role models and the people who took responsibility for them weren’t just their parents. They were also teachers (taxable labor), healthcare professionals (taxable labor), bus drivers (taxable labor), coaches (taxable labor) and I’m sure a whole bunch of others who were not family members, immediate or extended.

Given that, it appears that by your definition the role of parent, particularly mother (nurture, per your definition) is often left down to taxable labor and these relationships are often fostered and viewed as important. To extend the mother = nurture thing, then all nurses and doctors are moms. Every uncle and aunt you who took you aside as a child to say good job or teach you something, they’re a mom, too. Same goes for teachers, police officers (if protecting is considered part of nurturing) and school cafeteria staff (what’s more nurturing than making someone a healthy meal?).

What about you? do you think it's fine for the role of parent to be given to someone paid to take care of them?

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I think it’s a lot more nuanced than you are portraying it here. Personally, I believe it is no way just the parent’s responsibility to take care of a child, but rather everyone’s responsibility to take care of all children insofar as they are able. In the situation that is referenced above you’re talking about a hard working businesswoman with three children, one of whom is so disabled that she can’t integrate into mainstream education, who is providing for her children. That is taking care of them. She chooses to spend money on someone who is trusted, that the children have clearly developed a relationship with, who is trained to handle her child’s special needs while she ensures their future. Sounds like a pretty smart thing to do to me.

Additionally, can you imagine a better role model for children? Their mom owns a business with eight successful locations, employing who knows how many people (if there’s a minimum of five workers to cover the salons for the entire work, that’s forty people, chances are there are a lot more than that), she does it all on her own, provides for her children and works hard every day. They can always look up to her and say, “If she did it, so can I.” I wish I had a mother who was successful in business. I would have access to so many more opportunities.

do you think parents should be putting spending more time with their kids over fewer work hours?

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I think it depends on what their situation looks like, so let me ask you the other side of this situation, which is pretty much how I see it. “How much time can parents afford not to work to provide their children with everything they need?” That’s the important side of that question. It’s definitely a case-by-case basis. There’s no resolution that would work for even a majority of parents.

or do you think I'm just some "women shouldn't work" etc... sexist like others have called me when I told them about this?

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This is flame bait. You are specifically inviting someone to judge you in a negative light as a sexist. You can do better. This debate is not about you or me. It is about opinions, the discussion of the opinions expressed and the analysis of those opinions. That is debate.

If you want to see more individuals being stay at home parents then income needs to be adjusted to allow for it. Income for the majority of families in america have stagnated since the 60s/70s forcing the requirement of two inner incomes. You want to see parents spending more time with their kids then they need more funds to see their children financially secured.

made a slight edit to the original post.

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Nihilistic_Impact said:

If you want to see more individuals being stay at home parents then income needs to be adjusted to allow for it. Income for the majority of families in america have stagnated since the 60s/70s forcing the requirement of two inner incomes. You want to see parents spending more time with their kids then they need more funds to see their children financially secured.

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A very harsh truth, if household income remains as stagnant as it is now, then I think this issue of having to hire people to raise children so the parents can provide for the child will only get worse.

very good point there.

Welp, I've lived with 4 of my sisters kids for 10+ years now and they've all surpassed that age. At that age, they are well aware of who their mother is. This isn't a case of the kids genuinely being convinced this caregiver is their mother. They are probably angry at their mother for never being around and those words were how they chose to express themselves. The caregiver now acts more like their mom more than their mom, they know it, they see it, they feel that way, so they found a harsh way to remind their real mother of that. Not to mention, they've probably lost connection with their mother, so this is quite the disruption in their every day schedule, which is probably why there were tantrums.

Kids aren't stupid. I was the primary caregiver for my niece the majority of her life, and even at age 4 she knew I wasn't her mother even though she didn't know her mother. I was the closest thing she had to a mother.