Dungeons and Dragons

My Human warlock rocks. I can hit any defense with my at-will abilities.

I'm sure there's some sort of comic shop or something nearby, but I have never known anything about the nerd scene lol

Or you could check the forums on the D&D main page, they do have sections for finding games locally.

I've been playing, well, more lik running D&D games since just before 3rd came out. I touched into 2nd a little, but found it far to annoying for my tastes. I like a complex game, but there's a line, and 2nd is firmly on the other side of it.

I think 4th went too far. It made everything too simplistic. I bought the core books, figuring I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. Give it a fair shake, you know? It was the biggest waste of money I've ever done, adn I've bought some pretty dumb things in my time. (The $80 leather hat, while amusing looking, was probably not a good idea.) 4th was praised that it would be giving people more flexibility, and the liike, but I found myself horrifically confined. When playing 3.5, I could make any class, of any race, do anything I wanted, no matter how weird and off the wall. 4th? Nope. my options dwindled to a bare handful, and while that made it easier for the developers to claim balance, I found they'd taken the fun out of my game. Sure, they claim each race is now roughly on a par with each other, but...the gods did not create all beings equal, so why should theh game play like they did?

I found the characters stupidly hard to kill, with ridiculous amounts of HP off the start, but they scaled so slowly from there, and with no real benefit to having a higher stat line either. Not to mention the fact they made it so your entire stat line grows as your character does, and while on one hand that's kind of interesting, it's not really useful anymore. It you don't have some ability that drives off of a stat, who cares if it goes up? In 3.5, if a stat went up, it mattered, at least a little. INT goes up? More skills, more spells for the wizard. WIS? Better will saves. CHA? Well, barring Sorc and Bard, least useful skill, unless playing a mroe social character. Physical stats were pretty obvious really.

I had the thought of possibly transfering the campaign I've been running for a while over, but dropped the idea almost immiediately after reading the new PHB. I don't even think anyone in town still plays 4th anymore. There was a good campign running for a while, but it fell out of favour within 4 months. Once the novelty of the new system wore off, everyone was left wanting their old charcters, the comfortable, customizable old 3.5. 3.5 takes a few hours to really learn, and most of a lifetime to truly master. 4th, was ten minutes to learn, and a few hours to master. Not my game, thank you very much. 4th is a decent RPing system. But it is NOT D&D in the mind of this DM.

rage- everyone bitched and whined and moaned when 3rd came out.
they did the same thing when 3.5 came out.

and lo and behold, complaining about 4th.



Give it time, bet you anything when 5th edition comes out everyone's gonna bitch and whine then too.

Rage-I know exactly what you mean. I technically started on 2.0 (wow, I think that was 4th grade) and fell into the rules, with a few problems here and there. Then 3.0 came out and I learned that system and so did my DM (he'd been playing since it 1.0 and before. I shit you not when I sat he played with some of the latter developers of 2.0 and 3.0 ), and that went even smother. My favorite character of all time is from that setting. But the rules were so ambiguous in cases we would have the classic long discussions about what it meant, who was right, who was wrong, and if we were dead yet. 3.5 came out not long after I had collected most of the book (damn it....) and I started collecting those, finding that most of the rules we'd had problems over had been fixed, though I was a little sad that they had fixed some of the loop holes I'd exploited. That was when I started forming my own groups to DM and playing in much larger crowds. I personally enjoy it the most. the rules are more or less streamlined, and there is vast flexibility depending on what you want out of the game play.

Then 4.0 came out. I took one look at it and thought "Holy shit...they've turned it into an MMO". I'll admit that it's been streamlined, but to to an excess. Flexibility is now nearly zero. And yes I can respect the almost action movie feel of the game, where the tanks obliterate vast forces of minions with ease. But those same minions (if they're lucky) can survive a casters maximum power if they make their save (3.5, we've literally wiped 600sq miles off the map with a single spell). I think that 4.0 might work well for people who've never touched a RPG, or are just have never played any but MMOs. But for those of us that have played for years, it really seems like it's missing something. I don't mind if they continue 4.0, but it annoys me that they discontinued 3.5.

DJ-Of course they'll bitch and moan. People will bitch if something stays the same, and people with bitch if something changes. Find one thing that someone didn't bitch about

Styx- you just restated my point.

Did you even play the game Styx?

When a caster uses a spell it's not vs a "save" it's vs a specific defense. The caster is the only person that rolls, now barring that the spell has ongoing damage or a lingering status effect then yes, they roll a save. Wooo, but I've played both Wizard and Warlock, a friend has played Sorceror and we're messing around with a bunch of other classes and truely everything you just said looks as if you just flipped through the books without giving the game any relative thought.

NOW then, on to the flexibility issue? Um yeah, you can pretty much do whatever you want in 3.0 and 3.5 because there was literally dozens upon dozens of supplement books out. You don't like the lack of choice now? Think back to when 3.0 JUST came out, the options for building a decent character were even slimmer than they are now. But then lo and behold more and more books popped up.

Before you start ranting about choices remember that you're comparing a game that's been around for years (3.5 and 3.0 were so similar they could just be mashed together) vs a game that hasn't even been around for a full year yet. Now then, if you still whine and bitch that it's so "limited" then wait a year and look at it again.

Ta-Da.

Okay, then we'll stick with Core books only. Build me a 4th editiion fighter who fights barehanded, and can still compete with a greatswordsman. Can you build it? I could in 3.5, and did. Can you make fighter who can shoot the dick off a hummingbird at 500 feet? I could and did in 3.5. Here's one. Can your ranger make his own friggin' arrows? I thought not. Does that strike anyone else as pretty damned stupid?

So I want to share the horrid story of Halda the Gold-Dwarf Barbarian.


Halda, a lovely woman by dwarven standards, was moping about the tavern of Loudwater. She was minding her own business, as much as a barbarian Dwarf can be expected to mind their own business, when the walls of the tavern exploded in. To her delight in poured a wave of drow - It seemed, after a moment, they were pursuing a single Drow only. Conflict exploded in her - Slaughter them all, or all except one? She decided that there was nothing that could come good out of Drow chasing Drow, and if they were on the surface that meant the runner was an Escapee. So she pulled her executioners axe from it's place besides the two empty kegs she'd finished earlier and dashed into the fray - Indeed, while she'd been hesitating, a gnoll, eladrin, gensai, and elf had burst onto the scene and were reaping havoc on the Assasins. Eventually the force lay decimated and bloody on the tavern floor. Weary, but thoroughly pleased, she settled back to drink while the establishment began the long process of cleaning up. However she was soon recruited by the town to go ona quest that promised the blood of many a creature on her decorated axe. So she left Loudwater with the party who she'd fought beside the day before, a Gnoll Ranger, Eladrin Wizard, Gensai Swordmage, Drow Rouge, and Elf Cleric. The journey to the ruins of an ancient city took many a day, and their rations were low byt he time they arrived at the one monestary and inn outside the ruins. Weary, the took their rest. The next night the party met with a woman in the ruins, her visage gohstly - and Ancient Elf of the old city, turned undead by time. Halda took the initiative.

"We are looking for the location of a woman, the wife of Gorryn Marshallan." The visage turned to Halda and smiled. "She is north, through the portals in the towers." Next, the Drow spoke.

"Where is the entrance to the tower?" An apparition appeared in the air, an aerial map of the terrain and the location of the entrance. So the group began the trip that would be Halda's demise. They came to the entrance of the towers, and down the stairs there was a room of portals. The silence was deafening. The rouge, after determining the safety, stepped inside. She followed, and the rest of the party came after her. In front of them lay three passages. The group spoke with each other, and they decided to go down the center. The rouge, though looking about, missed the trigger of a trap - and fell through the floor. A little scratched up, but not to terribly hurt, the rouge came back up - and fell through another hole. Halda, after fishing out the apparently dense rogue, took out her spare axe. Ever step she beat the ground, triggering all the pit falls. The way was clear. In front of her, she saw a green glow in the shape of a skull. It was twice her size, and the center was swallowed by pitch blackness. Curious, Halda thumped the floor in front of her. IT was solid. She stepped forward - and she was suddenly fascinated. She walked toward the skull, ignoring her parties cries. She wanted to touch it. She wanted to go inside it. She walked through.

When Halda woke back up, she was naked in a stone room. In front of her was a Singe statue. Feeling tired, bust knowing something was wrong and that she had to get moving, she began to explore the room. The only exit, she found, was on the other side of the statue. The closer the got to the stone work, the weaker she felt. Desperate to get free, eventually Halda forced herself past the statue. She was so week by then time she got past it, she fell to the ground - and died.


---


Damnit.


Oh yeh, btw, her armor went to a room back in that corridor... the party took it.


Rofl, I'm to lazy to make a better story out of it.

Rage of Aeons said:

Okay, then we'll stick with Core books only. Build me a 4th editiion fighter who fights barehanded, and can still compete with a greatswordsman. Can you build it? I could in 3.5, and did. Can you make fighter who can shoot the dick off a hummingbird at 500 feet? I could and did in 3.5. Here's one. Can your ranger make his own friggin' arrows? I thought not. Does that strike anyone else as pretty damned stupid?

Click to expand...

Yes, actually I can.



Anymore questions?

Yeah, how about a few stats for it? It's one thing to just state yes, I can, and rather another to show it. Let's see this bow fighter of yours. Let's see how this unarmed fighter of yours works. You want the full ream of stats from me, I'll belly up to the bar. I aint shy about it.

Ok, I'll work 'em up if it'll end your mindless bitching about something you've obviously never actually played.

Hero, I applaud you in your bitch quelling abilities.

Did you even read the above posts I made? I own the core books, read the core books, played in a campaign for over a month, going through a number of combats, roleplaying areas, and the like. I dropped the campagin, along with the rest of the group when we all started wanting our 3.5 complexity back.

I don't claim 3.5 is perfect. Far from it. Sure, 4th is simple, and has some good points to it, I'll not deny it. But it looks to me like something I'd use if my whiney 12 year ol cousins wanted to play something. Far too dumbed down.

Seriously, what is with people inability to adapt and change? It's a phenomonom that baffles me - Something comes out, new, and instead of being met with excitement and anticipation it's met with disdain. I would like to take this moment to point out that D&D is a RPG. Lets break that down - Role. Play. Game. Role - taking on a persona other then your own. Play - The actions that stimulate the body in various ways while providing entertainment. Game - The result of Play, much of the time. Not role dice and spend 20 minutes looking through Players to detail whether or not we can actually do what we want. It's a simplified system, but simple isn't always worse. Nor does it 'dumb' a game down. It's like being an engineer - a product isn't complete when there is nothing more to add to it, but rather when there is nothing else to take away. What they've done it brought the essence of the game back. Instead of worry about technical shit that makes one fight last 6 hours, You slide through the fight with surprising ease. You always have SOMETHING you can do, rather then sit there idly and twiddle your thumbs. In a way, it allows MORE freedom with the current ruleset. You're the person you see walking down the street with a pager, rather than a cell phone.


/tsks.

Fist fighting fighter: Human Fighter(for ease and general agreeability)

I would roll custom stats but because I really don't feel the need to waste my time I'll just take a standard array.

STR: 18 - broken down from 16 + 2 through human bonus.
CON: 14 - standard
DEX: 13 - Standard
INT: 11 - Standard
WIS: 12 - Standard
CHA: 10 - Standard

Now then, take this fighter and equip him with a set of Spiked Gauntlets, this takes the 1d4 and bumps it up to 1d6. Yes, not so bright as the 1d10 of a great sword but you also get to take advantage of two weapon fighting feats.

As a human of level one take the following feats: Two-Weapon Fighting: Increase damage +1 when using a weapon in both hands, aka both your gauntlets.
Now because attacking with both weapons is reserved to keep the ranger special the bonuses you get from using two weapons will be based off your feats. Yes, that's right, are you going to gripe about that too? That they made each class unique? Because that seems like a crime huh?

And for the second feat take Weapon Focus in the appropriate category, in this case it'd be unarmed. Increase your damage by another +1

Now you've got feats, this automatically puts you at 1d6 + 6 for a basic melee attack. 3 points shy of a great sword. WITH NO PENALTY TO ATTACK ROLLS.

Whatever powers you take then only serve to increase your damage, granted you'll still be just 3 shy of the max of a great sword. Whoo? Who really cares about a whole 3 points.

Now assuming you take this same human fighter and give him feats to make him specifically wonderful with a great sword and specializing in just the great sword, instead of being a smart player and focusing your efforts into making your character useful, because guess what, fighters are defenders and not strikers, then you'd be a whole 4 points shy. YAY! One extra point of damage and completely blowing your fighter into a roll that can be played BETTER by a Ranger, Rogue or Warlock.

So there, it doesn't match exactly but you asked for a fighter that could compete with a great sword fighter. And it competes. Not only that but by freeing up both hands you can strap on a shield on top of your gauntlet, and thanks to the ambiguous wording you can in fact still get the bonus from two weapon fighting, and then you get extra defense as well, so while you're not hitting AS hard as a great sword you're hitting just as frequently, and GETTING hit much less frequently.

3.5 makes me giggle when it comes to a bare handed fighter trying to match the power of a great sword. Using just the core books what are you going to do? Take two weapon fighting and improved unarmed combat?

So you're still stuck with 2d4 at -2 penalty per attack roll. Good luck.

Congratulations, you now fill the proper roll as defender.
Things like defenses and other non pertinent abilities are left out because they're not needed just to compare damage output.


The bow fighter is easy. You only said he had to shoot the dick off a humming bird from 500 feet.

Take the same stats from above, arrange the 18 into dex, give fighter a bow. You now have high accuracy.

Advance your range by taking far shot as a feat.

You now have range and accuracy.

Your fighter may now shoot the dick off a humming bird, I don't know why the humming bird poses a threat, but I guess it's worth the 1 exp right?

Now, do you have any other vague questions about 4th edition you'd like me to answer?

Or are you going to continue gripping?

Because I'd much prefer this thread stay in GD and not PVP, so ask questions instead of blatantly insulting.

If you prefer 3.5 over 4th edition just fine. If you find flaws in 4th edition just fine. I can answer questions about flaws, you don't have to be rude, you don't have to be sarcastic, and you don't have to get an attitude.

Oh and by the way, flaws in 4th edition < Grappling in 3.5.

Thank you, have a nice day.

Incidentally, shooting the dick off a hummingbird is impossible since hummingbirds have no dicks. Swans are the only birds with penii.

Misha Hiroki said:

Incidentally, shooting the dick off a hummingbird is impossible since hummingbirds have no dicks. Swans are the only birds with penii.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure I want to know why you would want to know that.

That's a random bit of information.

I don't remember where I found that out...but I know that it's not some random crap I got from my mind.

Well back to D&D.

What I don't like about D&D 4.0 is that virtually EVERYBODY has a power of some sort or another. It's like an absolute ripoff of World of WarCrack.

BlisteredBlood said:

What I don't like about D&D 4.0 is that virtually EVERYBODY has a power of some sort or another. It's like an absolute ripoff of World of WarCrack.

Click to expand...

I'm going to take this statement and pretend that you didn't just make a statement like that.

Because the essence of every RPG is that people have abilities, Warcraft ISN'T a unique case to the point where everything is ripping it off.