The Pros and Cons of Breathing (And Why I should just Stop)

[Absinthresher]

At this point, I don't even know why the hell I'm writing this.

It's not an apology. I know what I did was wrong in chat but I can' bring myself to apologise simply because I am sick to fucking death of apologizing for being angry all the time. I don't like it anymore. I don't like apologizing. I'm permabanned from chat and that's that. Probably no way to change that and I don't care to.

I lost my best friend. He won't answer my e-mails, won't answer my phone calls, blocked me on Steam, blocked me on Facebook, block me on Skype. Why? Well, he says it's because I'm not a good enough "Ally" to his "Transgender nature".

I'm not a good enough ally because I don't want my best friend to end up dead. Not a good enough ally because I'm not sensitive and don't think about what I say before I say it because I think I'm always right. Hell, I don't even think I'm always right, I usually assume I'm wrong except on the few things I think I know better about.

My opinion on transgenderism is that it is a mental illness that needs to be understood, not glorified or normalized. Just like homosexuality, it isn't normal yet and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. People need to take a step back from their oppression olympics mindset and realize that to normalize a thing is to stop trying to understand it.

Yes, I said Mental Illness. You don't fix a mental illness, you treat it and try to cope with it. You examine it critically, from all angles, and you attempt to contain it so the person suffering it can be happy. There are many ways for this to be done, and I suppose transitioning gender is one way to do it.

My problem is the high rate of suicide that some transgender people have after transitioning. I don't want to lose my friend because he might make the wrong decision for him. OH WAIT, haha, I already lost my best fucking friend to this stupidity because he won't talk to me and has me blocked absolutely everywhere.

And yeah, this is "Poor me" because, despite explaining in no uncertain terms that I support his decision once I realized he was serious (THis is something he would joke about too), he still seems to think that I'm using his transition as a way to make some ridiculous social implication rather than trying to arm him with the only thing I know how to arm him with.

Knowledge.

I almost hope nobody reads this, because a few people on this site have already demonstrated that they can't talk rationally about this kind of thing without it devolving into screaming at people.

 

[Viktoff Samson]

That person was no friend. Plain and simple. If the requirement was that you act and behave the way they choose for you, then they are a control freak.

People who are hurt by opinions who return with censorship and anger are just not worth the time it takes to type. It's disgustingly anti-liberal to support censorship and hive mind. I can't agree with you more on the oppression olympics.

That being said, it may be best to do the most condescending thing you can do. Some people just need to be treated like children and appeased with silence. Opinions aren't a scary monster, they are just thoughts. But, some are incapable of understanding that just because you don't agree doesn't mean you want to kill them or something. So we can't be honest with our feelings in some cases. Just for the sake of further approaching our hobbies(like writing online). It's a subtle, silent protest. Pathetic, I know, but if I spoke openly about everything I know I'd lose out on some rp partners.

Let's give an example of how a disagreement goes yes? I disagree with you on homosexuality. Gay people are normal. They are not doing harm to themselves or others and partner preference is the most varying thing you can imagine between people. It's genetic, it's common, and the homosexual faction of humanity has been with us for as long as humans have been a thing.

See, people? I said I think they're wrong without making it about my feelings. I must be a magician.

(Tbh, I don't do things in the chat. I don't know this person. This is based soul-ly on the opinions presented in this thread)

 

[Absinthresher]

To clear something up, the person in question isn't a person on this site, but a close personal friend of the last 8 years. Literally my best friend. I just have nowhere else to really vent this kinda stuff.

And I agree with what you said. My stance on homosexuality is that it really is "The Other" because that's what it is. Biological imparative in most species is to breed and further the species. Homosexuality subverts that. It's not bad, or wrong, but it is different. Common or not, it's not "Normal". The majority of our population isn't homosexual. I'm Pansexual myself, and I know I'm different from most people, and I'm okay with that.

Anyways, I dunno what to do. I think if I lose him as mybest friend, I might just check out of society altogether, online and off.

 

[Viktoff Samson]

We can agree to disagree, I suppose. Normal doesn't necessarily have to mean the majority, I believe. And nobody cares about breeding anymore as an imperative, it's over rated. Causes more problems than it solves, really.

As for the person: Fuck them. I had friends for a long time too, nobody is worth the things you suggest you'll do if things don't work out. No one. Learn to give up and move on in a healthy way. There just isn't much more advice I can give you. Telling that person how you felt wasn't a reason to just drop you as a friend. That's bullshit and the blame is entirely on them, not you. This is all based on the details you've liberated thus far, I clearly don't know the whole story. But, if a life long friend of mine came to me to say I'm not a "good ally" because we have a disagreement and I am academically confident in my statements, and they choose to 'other' and shun me? Fuck that kid. I don't need to obsess over one person when the world is full of human beings plenty capable of treating me like a person even when we disagree. Just a 'my point of view'.

 

[Trygon]

Maybe just... Shut the fuck up about all your opinions about things you have no experience with?

Would it be insulting if a white man told his black friend how to deal with the cops? Of course. How about a male telling a female how to avoid being raped? Insanity. These people have no frame of reference, and they have NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE but quiet support.

You think being trans is a mental illness. Okay. You're wrong, except in your own highly specialized definition of mental illness used by nobody else, but fine. Why did you feel a need to talk about it? Because you think you found a correlation between post-op and suicide? Brother, how about pre-op? There's just a correlation between being trans and suicide, whichever side of the knife they're on.

So here we have a person who's already suicidal in all likelihood, and someone they trusted enough to talk to about all this says 'You shouldn't do this because you're mentally infirm and doing this will make you commit suicide.' The one way they see to feel better about their situation, and you've just got so many opinions on the subject.

Remember, with ZERO frame of reference.

Yeah, I'd write you off, too. You're an idiot who's convinced his opinion is worthwhile. Take heart, at least you're in good company these days. Presidential company, according to some.

Save the suicide whining. It's trite and childish. If you feel bad about your shitty behavior, don't throw a tantrum, FIX IT. For starters, accept that your shitty fucking 'opinion' is worth less than dogshit, and you pollute the air of everyone you share it with. Unless you have something valid and new to contribute to a conversation, keep your dumb mouth shut. I've watched you post around this site, so trust me, I know you need to do this.

Next, LISTEN to people that are contributing when you can't, and inform your thoughts with what they say. When your trans friend first got agitated, before you kept pushing the issue like a jackass who thinks his opinion is solid gold and drove them off, you should have IMMEDIATELY apologized for speaking about something you had no knowledge in, and then edited your own thoughts to reflect what someone who actually knows tells you. In this case, your friend.

This could have been a learning experience about trans people, but you thought you already knew everything relevant. Now it's a learning experience about your personality flaws. You sowed this field, now reap it, instead of crying in a heap.

 

[Viktoff Samson]

Maybe just... Shut the fuck up about all your opinions about things you have no experience with?

Would it be insulting if a white man told his black friend how to deal with the cops? Of course. How about a male telling a female how to avoid being raped? Insanity. These people have no frame of reference, and they have NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE but quiet support.

You think being trans is a mental illness. Okay. You're wrong, except in your own highly specialized definition of mental illness used by nobody else, but fine. Why did you feel a need to talk about it? Because you think you found a correlation between post-op and suicide? Brother, how about pre-op? There's just a correlation between being trans and suicide, whichever side of the knife they're on.

So here we have a person who's already suicidal in all likelihood, and someone they trusted enough to talk to about all this says 'You shouldn't do this because you're mentally infirm and doing this will make you commit suicide.' The one way they see to feel better about their situation, and you've just got so many opinions on the subject.

Remember, with ZERO frame of reference.

Yeah, I'd write you off, too. You're an idiot who's convinced his opinion is worthwhile. Take heart, at least you're in good company these days. Presidential company, according to some.

Save the suicide whining. It's trite and childish. If you feel bad about your shitty behavior, don't throw a tantrum, FIX IT. For starters, accept that your shitty fucking 'opinion' is worth less than dogshit, and you pollute the air of everyone you share it with. Unless you have something valid and new to contribute to a conversation, keep your dumb mouth shut. I've watched you post around this site, so trust me, I know you need to do this.

Next, LISTEN to people that are contributing when you can't, and inform your thoughts with what they say. When your trans friend first got agitated, before you kept pushing the issue like a jackass who thinks his opinion is solid gold and drove them off, you should have IMMEDIATELY apologized for speaking about something you had no knowledge in, and then edited your own thoughts to reflect what someone who actually knows tells you. In this case, your friend.

This could have been a learning experience about trans people, but you thought you already knew everything relevant. Now it's a learning experience about your personality flaws. You sowed this field, now reap it, instead of crying in a heap.

Here come the thought police.

Seriously, you think it is impossible to study or learn something about an experience without living it? That's just an excuse to allow your own brand of bullying by 'othering' them. You posit that you are just innately correct and treat someone like that? Over what? An opinion?

I have absolutely no clue what happened in chat. I don't defend bullying, so I won't say they didn't do anything wrong. But, your post is almost entirely bullying. It's gross.

Before I held back my own opinion on subjects that don't actually concern me because that is just the polite thing to do. Now, I'm going to have to worry about where I place my opinion at all on this site. Because, apparently bullying someone based entirely on opinion is just acceptable around here. Great.

I mean, suggesting that what they are saying makes BMR an uncomfortable space for other members is perfectly sound. Telling them that they should keep some things to themselves, I get that. Telling them they pollute the air other people breathe and their opinion is dog shit-oh and their feelings are invalid because they aren't trans? That's disgusting and wrong, I don't care how much you think you are correct or justified.

Edit: That being said, I agree with you somewhere. This is an inappropriate place to post about suicide-leaning comments and complain about being banned from chat. It's very much not okay so says Rule #2, second paragraph. The tone here is whiny and I regret participating in this specific thread.

 

[Sync]

Maybe just... Shut the fuck up about all your opinions about things you have no experience with?

Yeah...'cause THAT's constructive, and not at all confrontational.

Would it be insulting if a white man told his black friend how to deal with the cops? Of course. How about a male telling a female how to avoid being raped? Insanity. These people have no frame of reference, and they have NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE but quiet support.

Why would it be insulting for a white man to tell a black man how to deal with cops? Maybe the white guy has been in the slammer before, and is giving his friend some tips and pointers. You don't know. And the man might have been raped himself, so he could have useful advice. Again, you don't know.

You think being trans is a mental illness. Okay. You're wrong, except in your own highly specialized definition of mental illness used by nobody else, but fine. Why did you feel a need to talk about it? Because you think you found a correlation between post-op and suicide? Brother, how about pre-op? There's just a correlation between being trans and suicide, whichever side of the knife they're on.

What makes YOU so qualified to declare the OP wrong and yourself right?

So here we have a person who's already suicidal in all likelihood,

Evidence, please.

and someone they trusted enough to talk to about all this says 'You shouldn't do this because you're mentally infirm and doing this will make you commit suicide.' The one way they see to feel better about their situation, and you've just got so many opinions on the subject.

Remember, with ZERO frame of reference.

Or maybe, the OP could have been trying to understand from said point of zero reference.

Yeah, I'd write you off, too. You're an idiot who's convinced his opinion is worthwhile. Take heart, at least you're in good company these days. Presidential company, according to some.

Save the suicide whining. It's trite and childish. If you feel bad about your shitty behavior, don't throw a tantrum, FIX IT. For starters, accept that your shitty fucking 'opinion' is worth less than dogshit, and you pollute the air of everyone you share it with. Unless you have something valid and new to contribute to a conversation, keep your dumb mouth shut. I've watched you post around this site, so trust me, I know you need to do this.

And you've just immediately painted yourself as the person with the know-it-all air of superiority, and no-one else's opinions matters but your own. Well done. *golf claps*

Next, LISTEN to people that are contributing when you can't, and inform your thoughts with what they say. When your trans friend first got agitated, before you kept pushing the issue like a jackass who thinks his opinion is solid gold and drove them off, you should have IMMEDIATELY apologized for speaking about something you had no knowledge in, and then edited your own thoughts to reflect what someone who actually knows tells you. In this case, your friend.

This is the first constructive thing you've said in your entire post.

This could have been a learning experience about trans people, but you thought you already knew everything relevant. Now it's a learning experience about your personality flaws. You sowed this field, now reap it, instead of crying in a heap.

And back to the air-of-superiority BS. Attitudes like yours are just as much part of the problem as those who don't want to understand a different viewpoint.

 

[Absinthresher]

Wow. I am glad I woke up today because Trygon, that was fantastic. I applaud you and your ability to cuss at people over the internet while making a bunch of assumptions.

Let's see... Where to start with this glorious shitstorm that just started flailing about the room, knocking shit over and breaking all the furniture.

I'll start this off by saying "You wot mate?"

Let's see. I personally find it insulting that Anita Sarkeesian has the gall to tell me what I find attractive and my reasons for playing a game, and that I'm somehow oppressing women by enjoying video games. Since she's not male, and videogames are a male dominated industry, by your logic, she should just shut the fuck up because she has no frame of reference for what it's like to be male. That about right? You people keep forgetting that double think can work both ways. Truly astounding.

I felt the need to talk about it, at least in regards to him, and the conversation I had in chat was ABOUT HIM, because I don't want to lose my best fucking friend just on the off chance that he got it wrong and that transitioning genders actually DOES make him suicidal. Excuse the FUCK out of me for looking out for him in the only fucking way I know how. Apparently there's a fairly high pre-op and post-op suicide rate for transpeople. I was under the impression that it was due to it ultimately being the wrong decision altogether, but, I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am. Preferably with CITATIONS THANKS.

http://newobserveronline.com/transgender-is-a-mental-illness-and-should-be-treated-as-such-former-johns-hopkins-chief-psychiatrist/

That's my reasoning that transgender is a mental illness. It could be wrong, I don't know.

So here we have a person who's already suicidal in all likelihood, and someone they trusted enough to talk to about all this says 'You shouldn't do this because you're mentally infirm and doing this will make you commit suicide.' The one way they see to feel better about their situation, and you've just got so many opinions on the subject.

Remember, with ZERO frame of reference.

Making a lot of assumptions here.

First and foremost, from what I understand, he was not suicidal but merely unhappy with his body. Infact, when he first told me, he didn't make it this big serious fucking deal. He just said "I wanna be a girl" and I literally had to stop and go "Wait wut" and then he explained that he was serious because, before all this shit started, this is the kind of thing we'd joke about. This isn't a case of me not taking him seriously because of whatever reason you're imagining. This was a case of miscommunication because, AGAIN, this is the kind of thing we'd joke about in the past.

Assuming I have ZERO frame of reference on a subject just because I happen to not be the thing, he said while making assumptions based loosely on information given. I mean, do I have to spell out the irony of that or..?

For the record, I was actually attempting to understand all of this and support him in my own way, that way being providing him with information that I found useful. His delicate, special snowflake sensibilities couldn't handle it, clearly.

I suppose by all this logic, I ought to tell people to fuck off whenever they nag me about something when I don't hve the energy for it based on the fact that I'm depressed, and you're not allowed to criticize me for my personality flaws because I identify as "Depressed". Y'see how fucking stupid that is?

I don't remember saying anything about suicide. Checking out of society does not necessarily mean death.

At any rate, telling me that my opinion is wrong, pollutes the air, and is worth less than dog shit is just... so helpful.

And, I actually did try to talk to him about it, but he's literally blocked me on all fronts to the point where I cannot communicate with him at all. Hell, I even tried calling him and he won't answer the phone now. The conversation went "Luke?" "Yep? Oh, Bye" and he hung up. He's been screening calls ever since.

But I suppose not being able to talk to him or fix this in any way shape or form is STILL my fault?

So far, all of the education I've gotten on the subject are a bunch of people screaming at me for my source of information (Black Pigeon Speaks on Youtube would be my source in this case), and also treating me like a god damned pariah for DARING to have an opposing view on something. I've been called a terrible person, told to go fuck myself, and now told my opinion is worth less than dog shit. And the funny thing is, is that I want to fucking learn. I want to be a better person and get better, but with everything wrong with me, it takes a lot of patience and a lot of fucking up for me to get anywhere.

This isn't how you help someone like me.

You're assuming that they know EVERYTHING there is to know about everything and that their opinion MUST be worth more than mine because they're a transperson.

Yeah, I know I have personality flaws, and I'm working on them, but they aren't helped by insensitive people like you vilifying me for it, especially since you have no idea what I've been through or who I am as a real person. I'm making the effort to get better.

@Viktoff: I'm not actualy considering suicide, more like logging off of the various sites I log on to and just not coming back. Especially after the shitstorm that is Trygon happening just now.

Furthermore, I'm actually trying to not actively name names, except in the case of the one person, Luke, who is not a member of BMR. I am purposefully leaving it at "Luke" as not to be identifying him.

The people I had trouble with in chat know who they are.

 

[Broomhandle45]

Okay, this got off the rails real fast and I'm stopping it now. People are free to discuss their opinions how they like and however people agree or disagree with them or criticize their sources, it's imperative to do it as non-bias sounding as possible to not make this...well, exactly like this. So if people are interested in continuing this frame of mind in Absin's thread, do so with a far less hostile angle than how this is approached. Let's not make this so personally invested and inflamed or I'm giving out warnings, Trygon, you're already getting one, all your comment did was fan flames that didn't needed to be fanned considering it was a sensitive topic in the first place. Disagreements are fine, I'm not here to make anyone be nice for the sake of it, but for god sakes, people, be civil as you humanly can if you're going to type something here. I can't help people becoming emotionally invested, but I'm sure as hell going to make sure people aren't so pointedly aggressive in their wording.

Therefore, I'm keeping this open if people want to contribute less hostile discussion. But I'm keeping an eye on it.

 

[Absinthresher]

Thank you Broom.

Viktoff, Sync, I appreciate your views on the matter, as you didn't feel the need to belittle and degrade in order to make your point.

Trygon, I'd be happy to have this discussion with you, if you'd treat it as a proper discussion, instead of some kind of "Hate campaign" on my part. Like I said, I'd be happy to actually be educated but I want facts, not feelings. I hate feelings so very much.

Anyways, I'm gonna go wait for the first part of the new Warframe update, which I hope is today. If it's not, Imma be super sad.

 

[Viktoff Samson]

If the concern of the topic of transexuals and SRS is for data and conclusions based soul-ly upon that data, then you are out of luck. Only a liar can tell you to your face that SRS patients post-op with aftercare have seen significant studies of quantifiable numbers that have been completed. Only emotionally, politically, religiously or otherwise biased groups and Internet persona put forth the notion that SRS has seen such testing and that the science supports their position. I like to consider myself left leaning with a penchant to dable into conservative articles from time to time. I have seen it all, claims that reassigning gender is not only completely scientifically sound but, safe and effective while reducing reported suicide numbers. And I have seen many conservative non-trans aligning groups state that they just know it doesn't work and they suggest conclusive data shines light on increasing suicide rates in post op transpeople globally.

Sadly, no. To both sides of this spectrum, regardless where I lean, no. We all want a miracle fix for whatever may cause suffering in those we love. We all wish we can just ignore a problem and hope it goes away. These are the underlying phylosophical agendas of the most outspoken sides of modern media on transfolk. Neither is okay. While my heart and mind naturally lean one way, that doesn't mean the truth does and it is important we look past that bias if we truly wish the best for the transcommunity as a whole.

The conservative notion that SRS causes more problems than it fixes is often cited with this study here. While the sample size isn't all that bad, the fact that this study seems to be the only one conducted with such a size is a red flag. While the conclusion is word for word as the anti-SRS media states, the problem becomes clear when they go so far as to say these results are conclusive for all transfolk who complete SRS. That is bullocks and unfounded entirely. The study does conclude that of those studied, suicide rates increased. The study doesn't suggest that these ~roughly 300 people represent a sample size that can be satisfactorily applied to the whole planet's ever increasing transcommunity at large. No sir, ma'am, or other.

The fact remains that there are biased sides to this conversation like any other. The human race thrives on such a thing and arguments will always exist. But, the only fact-based and honest position to be held is to state that there are no fact-based positions on modern science and statistics regarding mental health of SRS patients. No way.

Telling people to shut up because you think you hold the only correct CONCLUSIVE position on this topic is a dishonest scare tactic. It's wrong. If you truly love someone close to you who is experiencing gender dysphoria, you should be concerned about the ever growing market for SRS with a measly 1 study to it's name. A study that, regardless of it's sample size, has mixed to negative results on the effects of SRS and suicide rates. That's alarming. Not conclusive or representative as a whole, but the only numbers we have.

My case is: SRS is a remarkably understudied procedure that has recently gathered widespread support in academia and health fields. This support appears to be unfounded at large, but not necessarily misguided. There isn't an acceptable amount of research conducted to meet an honest conclusion on whether SRS is the miracle treatment or only making the problem(in this case, mortality rates) worse for the transpopulation.

 

[Absinthresher]

And one of the points I keep trying to make, to no avail, is that normalizing this as though it WERE perfectly normal and NOT a cause for concern will hurt EVERYONE in the long run because we'll stop studying it, stop doing these research things, and cease to call it what it is.

I understand that calling it a mental illness is probably a bit harsh, but what else would you call it? Perhaps a disorder? I know, and recently read, that Gender Dysphoria is no longer "Considered a mental illness" but I honestly think whomever made that particular decision made it erroneously. It'd be like if we suddenly decided to classify depressed people as just "Really lazy and sad people. They're fine, they just need to cheer up" instead of what depression ACTUALLY is.

I'm not saying "Shut up" to anyone on that matter, I'm merely stating the facts as I see them, and maybe I'm blind. Well, I mean, I actually am blind. I have the eyesight of a bat, as it were. But my point is, is that in trying to talk to my friend, to warn him of the pitfalls of what could happen, I somehow ostracized him when this kind of thing never would have affected him before, and he won't talk to me so I don't know the WHY of all of this.

Alright, I'll give you that I probably shouldn't be positing these things I've been saying as ineffable facts, aside from one point that I did make, and I will restate it.

Normalizing Gender Dysphoria, or Body Integrity Disorder, or what ever it is that causes someone to want to change their body in such a massive and extreme way does more harm than it can good. I'm not saying we ought to treat it as a mental illness like schizophrenia, depression, mania, etc. I'm saying that we need more research and research will not get done if the general, cultural consensus is "Give them what they want, they'll be fine!". That is irresponsible as all hell.

I honestly believe that is a fact, whether I turn out to be wrong or not, I'm sticking to my guns on that one.

I agree with your overall case, and would like to point out one thing. Gender Dysphoria being a mental illness means that you cannot simply CURE it. You can tame it, make steps to live with it, and hope for the best, but like you said, there is no miracle treatment for it. It might work for some people, but saying "Oh all these suicides are because of society being bigoted" is... Well it's almost a Kafka trap isn't it? "Society is guilty of bigotry which kills transpeople" "But that might not be true in every single case" "You're not agreeing with me so you're bigoted! Proof in the pudding, buster brown".

Apparently I turned my personification of the argument that transpeople suicide is caused by society into Jane Crocker. Maybe she'll bake us some cookies or something. That or be possessed by sea hitler and destroy us all.

 

[Viktoff Samson]

You have serious "Main character syndrome" or "Center of the universe disorder". Did I say I wrote that piece just for you and it wasn't at all influenced or directed toward anyone else who may have posted in this thread? No? Not at all or even in the slightest? Huh. Ask next time, you goofball.

To posit that you know it is a mental disorder while you perceive that the world around you simply does not and you even suggest you might be passing entirely on feelings -But you're "sticking to your guns" on this one is just... Blatant and obvious bias. By definition. Bias doesn't make you wrong, but it doesn't equate to evidence either. We both feel like the normalization of SRS and blind faith of the regressive left SJW thought police mindlessly pushing vulnerable humans into obviously life changing irreversible procedures is just, well, disgusting. Where I draw the line is that I know the definitions of bias and fact. My bias aligns with yours, but there is no such thing as "personal truths". Without data to support our bias, we don't go around telling transgendered people who have a very real, endlessly documented problem known as Gender dysphoria, that seeking help in the form of SRS is wrong. We don't know. But, suggesting that they take a closer look at what SRS is, the "data" behind it, and the irreversible changes that would pursue? That's just concern, valid concern. Not bigotry or violence. If your "friend" won't talk to you because you presented yourself thusly, grow a fucking pair and move on already. You can't force them to be logical the very same way they can't force you to just accept SRS because they say so. It's retardation.

BUT: If you said something particularly different from the way I phrased it above, a more volatile snobby sort of way, perhaps you might actually be in the wrong? Minimizing their suffering by positing your assertions as "fact" (as you literally just fucking did) is precisely what I am talking about here. If that's what you did, then the fault is in your hands. Not that you can do anything about your thin-skinned so-called "friend" now. Figure yourself out and lead your life without posting intentionally attention grabbing shit on BMR. The suicide comments and obvious stink in the title is just way too much. If you feel depressed about your friend's decision to distance themself from you, seek help from people who actually know you. Don't throw the burden on people who don't. While there are people who met here on BMR who know eachother to the extent I am referring, I highly doubt there is someone here like that for you. And if I am wrong you should have pm'd them.

This topic is just too diluted to carry on being a social support topic and an honest OPEN discussion on Transgendered people and SRS. While given the go ahead by BroomHandle to carry on, I really can't be bothered to offer anymore advice on your friend. I don't know them. I don't know you. I don't know what happened and I can't "fix it". I can only offer the advice that I had given to this point and I just refuse to sport both halves of this topic, regardless of how you feel they may be related.

 

[Absinthresher]

*Sigh* The first part of the title is actually a reference to a song by Fall Out Boy. I am not considering suicide, I am considering checking out of society, which I will reiterate, means more just closing myself off from everyone so I don't have to worry about this shit. The second part of the title is facetious because pretty much everyone is telling me that my opinion is wrong and that I'm a fucking terrible person for having it.

Also, calm down. And just for the record, think very carefully the next time you call someone from Canada a "Goof" of any sort. That word has a very DIFFERENT meaning when applied to the wrong person.

Oh, I'm sorry that my best friend of the last eight or so years, the guy who saved me from fucking killing myself, decided that I'm not worthwhile as a friend anymore because I DECIDED TO SHOW SOME CONCERN AND TRY TO HELP HIM BY SHARING THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I HAD ON THE SUBJECT. Excuse me if two weeks isn't enough to "grow a pair and move on".

At any rate, here's what happened. He told me he wanted to be, t'quote, "A pretty girl" and I said "Okay, what?" and then he had to explain to me that he wasn't joking.I told him that I support his decision, but I wanted him to get as much information to make sure it's what he wanted, and I flatout told him I don't want to lose my friend to death because of a hastily made decision. I linked him this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAU3SPYFsA

He apparently did not watch the video because, again I'm quoting, "It made him feel unsafe". I told him that I got a lot of useful information from it, and according to a few people on this site, I'm a terrible person for getting useful information from it because it's just SO BAD. He also proceeded to shout me down in a very SJW fashion, stating that I wasn't a good "Ally" and that I was just using his transgenderism to... I don't even know what the fuck he said. Something along the lines of making a political statement out of him.

I honestly posted in MY JOURNAL because I had wanted to vent. I honestly didn't expect anyone to read the fucking thing because who the FUCK wants to read anything I wrote? I also have 'sought help from people who knew me' and they basically said he's being an idiot but that does not change the fact that this fucking hurts.

It's my party, I'll cry if I want to.

At any rate, I was simply responding to your post because I wasn't actually sure how much of it was directed at me, and just posted the way I did just to be absolutely certain. I apologize for sounding like a dick, if I did.

Now excuse me, I have to walk a bunch of kilometers to get groceries and then some more to get back because I officially am out of food.

 

[Trygon]

https://www.youtube.com/user/TokyoAtomic/videos

Sexism, racism, and trump supporting. This is what you trust for information? And you think we should, what, respect that?

 

[Absinthresher]

Considering I respected your decision to call me a piece of shit, Imma say yes. There's this amazing thing called "Educating people" and if you're too lazy to do it, keep your face shut, especially in someone elses Journal.

I also watch a lot of Sargon of Akkad, Armoured Skeptic, Undoomed, TL;DR, Sh0eonhead, and Naked Ape. I mean, by all means, if you have someone that you think is better than what i trust for my information, link me to them and I'll watch them and see if they can't educate me in whatever way you deem acceptable.

Note: Black Pigeon Speaks often cites quite a few sources in his videos, so maybe give some of those a look and see how reputable they are. I can only assume you didn't watch any of it, just read the titles.

You don't change someone's mind by shaming them.

 

[Chai]

Some of these things are so questionable. From the video: "Why Women Destroy Nations":

"According to a recent genetic study, 80% of women reproduced while only 40% of men reproduced prior to the modern era. The obvious conclusion to this is that a few top men had access to women while the bottom 60% of men had no mating prospects. Women clesrly did not mind sharing one man with dozen of other women for a man who leads, rather than have the undivided attention of one man who serves..."

That statement was made in regards as to why women betray their in-group and why they look for powerful men of higher status. I looked at the sources for this. Nowhere does he even link the actual genetic study nor any peer reviewed academic or scientific sources as to the speculation of the reasoning behind the results of the study. He linked the blog of a writer from the New York Times and two forum discussions, all of which are irreputable sources. Taking that information and twisting it to what HE says is the truth doesn't make it the truth at all. Also, his 'recent genetic study' was from 2007. Nine years is considered old. Rather than watch this video, I'd suggest doing your own research as I'm sure more recent data has surfaced since then.

Before the modern era, men had a higher mortality rate than women. They went to war. Exploration and travel exposed them to disease. In many cultures, women were property and had no choice in sharing their man. Many were kept as sexual slaves.

Then he proceeds to say that the reason Western Europe has negative population growth is because 80 percent of women strive to mate with the top 20 percent of men. Where are the studies to support that? He didn't link any. He also failed to mention that women in developed countries (some of the oldest of which are in Western Europe) delay or even cancel having children in favor of higher education or career. He also forgot to mention that, in developed countries, there's a growing trend of wanting less and less children. He also forgot to mention that, in developed countries such as those in Western Europe, sexual education and contraceptives have improved vastly since the start of the modern era. Availability of contraceptives has increased as well. All of these things contribute to the negative population growth of Western Europe and the overall decreased fertility rates of developed nations.

And while he did link a book titled "Sex and Culture," it was written in 1934 and therefore I have every reason to believe the information within is severely outdated and has zero pertinence to the recent dating culture. I'm not even going to open it.

The fact that these other factors are magically left out leads me to believe that he's incredibly biased and not reputable to cite in any way, shape or form. Information taken from him would be half-assed at best because he draws unsupported conclusions from the sources talks about. And this is just on one teeny little part of the whole video. I'm sure writing about the whole thing would take me a long time and a giant headache because he does this through the whole video. I don't even want to watch through his other videos. I honestly don't know why anyone would accept this is as good, trusted material. There is no respect for him on my end.

 

[Absinthresher]

I actually haven't watched that video primarily because my interest these days is generally feminism, transgenderism, and why Islam is a horrible place that is literally a rape culture. I'm intelligent enough to realize that a lot of stuff some people say is probably biased, or bigoted, as is the case with Feminism, just as much as Men's Rights Activists.

At any rate, I suppose you do have a point that some of his sources might be irreputable and biased to some degree, but this is only one youtuber I watch in a fair list of them. I found some interest in the "Normalizing Mental Illness" video because a lot of what he says, in my head, makes sense. If anyone has actual evidence and research to the contrary, I'd love to read it.

And in all honesty, most of the material he uses for his videos are a far cry better than most feminist media I've been exposed to. "1 in 4 women will be raped on college campuses" make college campuses more dangerous than most of the country. How is that even possible? "Women earn 77 cents to every man's dollar" makes even less sense because that is very literally illegal.

Anyways, I do appreciate that you were at least civil when you posted, not that I deserve as such from you. You have my thanks.

 

[Trygon]

Yeah, I'll just bet what he says makes sense to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

You can stop spoiling for a debate, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. I'm only here to show you the way, not to intellectually suplex you onto it. If you want to be the sort of person who watches that AMAZING list of shitty people you just rattled off, then go for it.

 

[Absinthresher]

You what mate?

So far you have done none of what you just said in any way shape or form. Your first post on this thread was "YOU SUCK, YOUR OPINIONS SUCK, FUCK YOU". Your next post was "Your sources are racist, sexist and bigoted, and that's just SO you" implying that I am racist, sexist and bigoted. This last post is you telling me I have confirmation bias, and how you're going to 'show me the way' by not debating me.

Trygon, you're an intellectual powerhouse my friend. But, with that last comment, you actually revealed to me what you are.

A Social Justice Warrior.

That's not a compliment by the way.

But hey, I could be wrong, so how about this: Show me the way. Give me some information. Enlighten me, brother. I promise you that I will give it a fair shot and really think about the message of whatever it is you throw my way.

On the other hand, if that's what you consider a "Debate" then by all means, feel free to opt out. I will remain ignorant and unenlightened by your truth, mon petite ennemi.

 

[Chai]

And in all honesty, most of the material he uses for his videos are a far cry better than most feminist media I've been exposed to. "1 in 4 women will be raped on college campuses" make college campuses more dangerous than most of the country. How is that even possible? "Women earn 77 cents to every man's dollar" makes even less sense because that is very literally illegal.

Anyways, I do appreciate that you were at least civil when you posted, not that I deserve as such from you. You have my thanks.

There has been enough evidence to disprove the 77 cents to a man's dollar, you're right.

But as far as rape on college campuses, why does that stand out as false to you? Out of the major universities that participated in that study, it was found that 1 in 4 women were sexually assaulted (that was the term that was actually used, I think, not rape). And that doesn't make university campuses any more dangerous than other areas; it just means that rape is more likely to happen in that environment because of several factors. There's the hook-up culture for starters, experimentation with alcohol and drugs, partying with intoxication and illegal subtances, etc. These are things that primarily happen at college campuses because it's a bunch of young people discovering what it means to do adult things with a lot of freedom.

Besides, a large majority of rape at college campuses isn't violent with unknown assailants. There is rarely any violence involved at all. Most sexual assault is done by someone the victim knows: a friend of a friend, a study group classmate, an acquaintance, someone they spent time with at a party. So no, it doesn't make college campuses more dangerous than other places at all. The definition of rape they use would be sex without mutual consent, and that can be a really easy line to cross without violence. As long as someone doesn't want it, it's rape.

 

[Absinthresher]

It's often cited that 1 in 4 women will be raped, sometimes swapped out with "Sexually assaulted" but most of what I have seen have called it raped. I've watched a large number of videos by the people I cited earlier, as well as Christina Hoff Sommers of the Factual Feminist who did a rather nice job debunking it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsJ1DhqQ-s

http://thefederalist.com/2014/12/11/new-doj-data-on-sexual-assaults-college-students-are-actually-less-likely-to-be-victimized/

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

Now, explain to me how in the world one of the safest places in the country to be somehow managed to get 1 in 5 women being raped, that's about 20% of the female student body, when there are... i don't even know the actual number for the population of America. Yes, I get that there is a lot of experimentation and what not in college, but if this were really the case, wouldn't women just be flocking from school in droves to get away from such unsafe places?

What the CDC did with their study, is they broadened the terms "Rape" and "Sexual assault" to mean things like sex while intoxicated, coercion, being lied to, and unwanted kissing and groping, all things which, while distasteful, are not necessarily rape or sexual assault. By making something bigger than what it is, all you end up doing is fear mongering which makes everything that much harder for absolutely everyone.

 

[resi]

A silly squabble that ended in something I should have done long ago.

Hi, I'm Resi, the person Absinthresher is talking about in this entire thread here. This isn't easy to talk about and I've tried a lot to deal with the entire situation in the best way I know possible. Letting go of a bad habit.

Yes, I'm trans. Yes, I hate using that fucking word. Yes, I wish I wasn't like this. No, I can't do anything to make it go away. No, transitioning will not make me suicidal. What has made me suicidal is the dysphoria when it actually gets fucking unbearable. When I was younger, Jay pestered me to read a web comic called Questionable Content because he thought I'd like it because there's some 4chan robot or something like that. I did enjoy the webcomic for the amount of time I read it, but I've forgotten characters and story overall because I get bored of keeping up with web comics. However, there's one character in the comic that had a father who simply killed himself in front of his family one day. No explanation given and it was something that simply happened. During that time, I was going through a huge depression, not inflicted by the dysphoria, but simply a shitty life in general. I would spend all day in bed and on the computer wasting my time wishing I could just not have to be awake. That character's father, I identified deeply with, for reasons I never understood.
I didn't want to kill myself right then and there. I just thought to myself, "Some day I'm just gonna grow up and kill myself." like it's a completely normal thing to think.

At the beginning of this year I started to actually follow transgender related topics because for the longest time it has been something that piqued my curiosity. I felt a deep connection to it, yet at the same time I tried to remain ignorant to the topic. Funny, how denial works. I knew, but I didn't want to say it or acknowledge it. I talked with some friends, I joined a community that helps other trans people and I asked questions, they asked me questions back.
The one question that stood out to me was, "Do you want to grow up as your current gender?" That question made me sit down and think, a lot.
I thought about my life and how I was growing up. I tried to find excuses for why I felt like this and tried to figure out what it was exactly that made me feel dysphoric. I thought about that QC character's father and I felt that question I was asked was really all I needed to know about making this decision. Who the fuck thinks that it's just something everyone is going to do some day? Grow up and kill themselves? That's horrible. I never wanted that. I just thought it was something people did because they feel like I do.

Dyphoria fucking sucks, there's no question about that. And other people who've posted are right. Absinthresher knows nothing of what I deal with mentally and I would say that he shouldn't be telling me that I have a mental illness and then proceed to link me a video that basically reinforces his skewed viewpoint. That video, I did watch it. The title alone was enough to put me off, but I did watch it. It showcases Caitlyn Jenner as the first topic and I think, "Okay, some scummy person who killed a guy."
No one looks up to Caitlyn Jenner as some sort of inspiration so far as I know. I don't think they're a good person. The next case in that video is a 50something year old who transitioned and now is into non-sexual Child Play. Yeah, if you watched something like this video without actually knowing real trans people you'd say, "Fucking wow these people are goddamn freaks."
Then there's two more cases in the video, one of them being those silly other-kin people. Other-kin isn't real. That's all I'm going to say on that front.

It was a huge blowup argument between the both of us, but not really. Absinthresher was trying to make me feel bad for "not watching the video" and "wow it hurt your feelings you're a SJW". He was trying to discuss things incorrectly and it wasn't something I wanted to deal with. I did want him to have proper information, but he instead decided that the resources he had were better than resources from people who actually deal with this stuff.
He was misguided in his thoughts and believed that I'm doing something drastic and it's going to hurt me. SRS is a very big decision even for a trans person and I'm not sure if I really want to deal with that at this moment. All I want right now is HRT to make me feel comfortable in my own goddamn body.
Some of you people are correct in your assessment of Absinthresher's character. Part of me hopes he'll get better. I wish he would. But I really don't think it's something that can be cured, much like my dysphoria.
Making the decision to let go of him was and still is a hard decision. Which is why I'm here right now talking about this nonsense. I hope that he'll get better some day. Maybe I'll keep some minimal contact with you, Jay. It's not easy to deal with you when you try to shift blame and make me feel bad for how you are. What happened is done with, but if you really want to know more, why don't you see it from my point of view?

EDIT:

Here's basically almost the entire conversation we had. There are probably some parts missing because I didn't properly document everything, but I think if Jay wishes this to be public then people should know how both of us acted.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36790034/what%20a%20mess.txt

 

[Trygon]

"wow it hurt your feelings you're a SJW"

The alt-right is strong with this one.

Thanks for weighing in, Resi.

11:23 PM - Pop Culture Cultist: Whereas you seem to think that my help isn't actually help "Because it makes you uncomfortable"
11:23 PM - Pop Culture Cultist: Poor. Fucking. Baby.
11:23 PM - Pop Culture Cultist: Go fucking cry to tumblr and dye your fucking hair while you're at it.

11:47 AM - Pop Culture Cultist: No, because you proceeded to be an absolute jackass for no good reason on several accounts and now you get to ride this fucking rage train until the end of the fucking line you dumb motherfucking pansy ass faggot

Strange that these didn't make it into your sob story, absinthe.

Tried to read the linked images and started feeling literally sick. Does your mother know you treat women like this?

 

[Star Pupil]

I lost my best friend. He won't answer my e-mails, won't answer my phone calls, blocked me on Steam, blocked me on Facebook, block me on Skype. Why? Well, he says it's because I'm not a good enough "Ally" to his "Transgender nature".

Seems like you lost a best friend because you were literally talking to her like she was garbage. No friend would ever belittle someones intelligence so belligerently and call them names.

Resi, I wish you luck and hope you have found other people who are far more supportive and caring than this person was. I'm sorry you had to waste time posting up this whole conversation to defend yourself from accusations on a site you were never on in the first place.