Obligation to shave legs and one's choice of hoisery.

[Nekrosilisk88]

So something I've noticed from my dating site is that a large majority of women feel they have a societal obligation to shave their legs. I personally don't understand this. I know I shave my legs because I enjoy the feeling of stockings on smooth legs. However the idea that someone should be required to is apalling. So I'm asking, primarily the ladies, but anyone else who does as well is welcome to offer their opinions as well. Do you feel you need to shave your legs? Also what type of hosiery do you prefer

 

[cupcakemon]

I don't know if this is for others but I know for me personally, I shave my legs because I have super dark coarse hair. It just doesn't feel good and makes me end up scratching my legs so much cause it just feels weird. I don't like feeling my legs and then feeling all the hair on them. It's why I shave my legs at least. I don't like my leg hair cause its much too dark for me and then it just feels uncomfortable with I touch my legs.

 

[Rudolph Quin]

I usually have to inform people that the hair is supposed to be there.

I never shave unless I'm trying to impress someone AND I'm wearing a skirt. If it's not both then I don't bother. Then again I'm hardly intimate anymore but even if I was smooth hair feels better than subtly stabbing somebody with tiny pricklies.

 

[Trygon]

Like, for an interview or something, sure. Otherwise? I don't care if my partner shaves or not, until I get hair in my teeth, then it's razor time.

 

[Isenhart De'Rathe]

I'm with Trygon on this one. I generally don't care if my partner shaves or not outside of the oral aspects of a sexual relationship. I used to care and I do like a smoothly shaven body, mind you. Every guy has our preferences that we would take over any other if our partners were to give us the choice, but I have a lot more respect for how hard certain things can be to maintain after my last long-term relationship.

She liked men with long hair, so I let mine grow out. I didn't get a haircut for four years (the time that we were together) and boy was that a wake-up call. I went to have the dead ends trimmed regularly, of course, but never anything more drastic than that. I never realized how hard long hair was to maintain. It was especially bad for me because I have naturally oily hair. If I don't wash my hair every night then I will look like I crawled out of a gutter somewhere. Of course, that kind of routine washing is not good for your hair. I can get away with washing it every other night when it is short, but when it was long, it was too noticeable and downright nasty if I let it go for a day. Then there was the knots, the tangles; it was a mess.

It was an eye-opening experience. Before that, I had a very strong preference for women with long hair, and I still do to some extent. I prefer long hair one women by a wide margin, but whenever a girl that I might be seeing these days asks if I think that she should cut her hair, I can only answer with, "It'll save you a lot of headaches if you think that you would be happy with it," or something along those lines.

So yeah. I prefer shaved legs. That said, I have never shaved mine and have no idea how hard it is to maintain that smooth feeling. If that's a nightly routine and you think that it is too much of a pain in the ass to bother with outside of special occasions, then fuck it. I had my period of sticking with something that was a pain in my ass to please my partner. After that, I'll never ask a woman to do the same for me.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

I shave my legs maybe once a week. My partner has never said anything about it but when I make a point that I have shaved, he'll rub my legs which is nice to me. I abhor body hair. If I had the money to laser it off, I would. My partner shaves for me and himself, and I do for him and myself.

We're very mutual about it, but when I so shave my legs, It's because I like the smooth feeling and so I can wear knee high socks or interesting tights.

The length of my hair, though, is more for my partner. The process of growing it out longer is tedious, but I like what I can do with it. And it just feels nice when he plays with my hair.

I seriously wish there was some natural gel remedy that would kill the growth of hair permanently that I could just put wherever I wanted. D:

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

I shave my legs maybe once a week. My partner has never said anything about it but when I make a point that I have shaved, he'll rub my legs which is nice to me. I abhor body hair. If I had the money to laser it off, I would. My partner shaves for me and himself, and I do for him and myself.

We're very mutual about it, but when I so shave my legs, It's because I like the smooth feeling and so I can wear knee high socks or interesting tights.

The length of my hair, though, is more for my partner. The process of growing it out longer is tedious, but I like what I can do with it. And it just feels nice when he plays with my hair.

I seriously wish there was some natural gel remedy that would kill the growth of hair permanently that I could just put wherever I wanted. D:

Well there are ointments that slow the growth of hair, but this is moreso for cases of hirsutism. It's like reversed hair growth cream. It works for as long as you use it. And you can't get it without prescription.

I really do wish women had less social obligation to shave. I have many reasons why. I have lost the genetic lottery and have been cursed with a few conditions which make shaving a pain in the ass.

I have psoriasis and sometimes I get breakouts on my legs, like I have right now. To shave is a ritual. I have to moisturize my legs like hell before I shower and I have to do it slowly or else I will cut my leg up to hell thanks to the spots of psoriasis. Also I have PCOS so my hairs will grow out longer and darker than they normally would. I not only shave my legs but I also shave my arms. I'd rather people be weirded out by my hairless arms than by my European-esque arm hair.

Hair removal is long and tedious for me, so honestly I only shave if I want to be wearing skirts or I'm going to be exposing my bare legs to someone. I shaved last night because I had an appointment with my OBGYN. So festive.

And I've found that lately I am more partial to pantyhose. Stockings feel more childish to me in most cases. Pantyhose are always classy no matter what.

 

[Chai]

My boyfriend doesn't mind whether I shave my legs or not, but that being said, I try to shave my legs every week. My leg hair is very fine, so it's not too noticeable, but it feels weird for me when I'm wearing stockings/pantyhose and the leg hairs are sticking through. I also live in a hot place so I wear shorts/skirts a lot, and because I'm a college student, I go to a lot of my early morning classes wearing Nike shorts and a T-shirt (lol I'm so lazy about actually dressing up for class). But I don't feel like I need to shave for anyone but myself, and during the month of midterm exams, I don't shave my legs because I'm always in sweats and a tank top lol.

When I do dress up, I like wearing pantyhose. It's just more comfortable. I really only wear stockings if I want to look/feel extra sexy.

 

[LadyYunaFFX2]

I've always shaved my legs and underarms since 12. It just felt .. normal to me. So I continue to do so, mainly out of habit. I do shave "the bikini area" (as I often hear it referred to) also. It's now a personal preference, honestly. I like it and I feel better when I'm completely shaven. I have thought about getting a wax one of these days, just because my hair grows back so fast (especially on my legs and underarms, with the latter being incredibly annoying to me). But maybe when I can afford it. I have a relatively high threshold for pain so I don't think I'll care about it; not enough to avoid doing it anyway.

I don't really like stockings or pantyhose. I'll wear them if an appropriate event [wedding, funeral, whatever] needs me to be there. But otherwise, I don't really wear much besides tank tops, jeans, really casual outfits.

So all in all?

Personal preference is what it comes down to for me. Nothing more, nothing less. I feel obligated due to myself and my wants, not society's.

 

[Prisa]

I shave when I'm going to be out in public and my legs are going to show. If I'm at home or at a close friends house I'll wear shorts or whatever and not care. Or if I'll be wearing some type of stockings, leggings, etc, just because they feel a lot more comfortable against smooth skin.

I really hate shaving and it's just a pain to me, plus my hair is dark and grows quickly. So even though I'd like to always have nice smooth legs it's just not going to happen. Though I'm planning on trying to save up for laser hair removal, then all my problems will be solved.

 

[Nekrosilisk88]

What's the alternative, to look unsightly on purpose? No thank you...

This is mostly what I'm curious about. This is a glaring double standard to me. A woman is walking around with hair on her legs and it's considered unsightly. A guy has hair on his legs and it no big deal. Only women really seem to have this obligation attached to them.

 

[Rudolph Quin]

What's the alternative, to look unsightly on purpose? No thank you...

This is mostly what I'm curious about. This is a glaring double standard to me. A woman is walking around with hair on her legs and it's considered unsightly. A guy has hair on his legs and it no big deal. Only women really seem to have this obligation attached to them.

That's because women have an obligation to look perfect and attractive all the fucking time. Didn't you know? If you're not fuckable, then you're worthless.

 

[darkangel76]

I'm utterly appalled at some of the stuff I'm reading here, but I'll leave it at that since I fear my lack of filter might get the better of me. That said, to help keep civility (since I can see this becoming uncivil rather quickly if left unchecked) AND because I think this might have the potential for some fairly good debate (provided people keep their heads on straight and their wits about them), this is going to be moved to BMA.

So please... refrain from flaming, baiting and any other form of attacking. Opinions are fine as we all have them, just remember that this is now an intellectual debate/discussion about something pretty worthwhile.

Thanks in advance.

**Moving to BMA.

 

[Star Pupil]

I'm just going to answer the original question as I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other about gender roles or types of gender.

I don't shave my legs. It's not because I am trying to make some statement that women don't HAVE to follow the invisible rules of what it means to be feminine. It's just because I was never taught how to shave when I was younger and my leg hair isn't very noticeable unless you directly shine a light against it. So I never felt the immediate need to shave later on in my life.

My legs are still smooth, sexy and feminine to other guys, because I have very healthy skin. I'm nearly 23 and I have never been asked if I shave or not because people assume I do. I understand that not every woman is like this though, and so I asked myself if the hair was noticeable on my legs, would I shave it?

Yes. It's not so much as I care what people think of me, I mean when I go out I don't really look at other peoples legs or even notice them in the first place unless I am sitting directly next to them. It's just that, I myself like to groom. Hair bothers me when I can visibly see it growing anywhere other than my head. So it's my preference, not everyone elses.

If I saw a girl with hairy legs or pits, I wouldn't judge her though. That's her choice, just like shaving is mine. What someone else does is none of my business.

 

[Chai]

What's the alternative, to look unsightly on purpose? No thank you...

This is mostly what I'm curious about. This is a glaring double standard to me. A woman is walking around with hair on her legs and it's considered unsightly. A guy has hair on his legs and it no big deal. Only women really seem to have this obligation attached to them.

Guys don't have that obligation because I think more often than not, women find leg hair on a man attractive, just as men find the lack of leg hair on a woman attractive. If I recall correctly, the obligation to shave wasn't even for men. It was because from 1900-1940, then fashion for sleeves and hemlines were raised and lowered, and then they just got shorter and shorter through time. I guess some women thought it was unsightly back then, too.

And I can sort of understand where starfish was coming from. In (American) middle schools, sometime during 7th or 8th grade, the phy.ed instructors will pull apart the genders and explain to them what it means to maintain 'standard personal hygiene.' I remember they brought in samples of deodorant and shaving cream and explained how to properly shave. I think the cultural expectation to shave has been thrust upon us since the age of being a pre-teen, and so some women will grow up thinking that leg hair is unsightly.

But on the whole, once you pass middle/high school, I think the obligation to shave the legs just... disappears. It's then dependent on personal preference. The guys older than 17 who I've talked to about it say they don't really care whether or not a girl shaves (though they may have a preference for shaved/unshaved). But if I ask a 14 year-old, they'd surely tell me that all their girlfriends need to shave. They're just at that age when they believe girls need to shave.

But going pack to the original post (and the talk of shaving due its context of a dating site), I think a lot of women will agree that they want to look their best on a first date (meeting up with someone they met on the site), and shaving the legs would probably include that. But what I find funny is that even for women who shave because they want to, it still somehow feels like a chore... Probably because it takes pretty long.

 

[Ms_Muffintops]

Women started shaving when razor companies decided to start advertising towards women when they wanted to expand their business. It didn't immediately catch on, but it opened up peoples eyes to the possibility of women shaving as well. If men were expected to be well groomed then women would be expected to groom what they had. It started with arm pits since they do accumulate a lot of hair compared to the rest of commonly exposed body parts. Then the legs.

It's partly the fashion, partly not. Men commonly didn't show off a lot of skin. Women started showing more skin before men did and thus the hairless body trend started with them. And by time shorts came around for men, there was just this mutual agreement in society that women shave their arm pits and legs and men do not.

Shaving really is a tedious task for me. I am prone to psoriasis break outs and as of late my legs have been getting spots of psoriasis. If I am not careful I can cut myself up pretty bad thanks to the psoriasis. I have to moisturize like hell beforehand and move very slowly when I shave. Shaving my legs can take over half an hour. So yeah, I'm still all for people just accepting that women grow hair. It's not gross, it's there for a reason.

 

[Rudolph Quin]

I think that's what most people mean when they say "obligation to shave my legs". It's the pressure of society to conform to a standard of behavior and beauty. It is seen as "unhygienic", for instance, to not shave your legs. Show me the studies for that, thanks. Shaving your armpits, I could see an argument being made since I learned very early on in high school that, yes, you can put as much deoderizer on your hairy pits as you want but they're still gonna kinda smell bad if you do anything except sit still the entire evening. Shaving your legs is about making yourself attractive for someone else. That's the standard and that's why it's there. You can talk about comfort all you want but you would have never done it in the first place and been trained since puberty to do it if it wasn't already set up as our culture's desired ideal and to prepare you to bed someone some day and not embarrass yourself. It's when the peer pressure extends over to other women looking at you with disgust or looking down on you for not performing the upkeep necessary. Which is where you get this feeling of reactive blase and apathy, like myself, because I'm not going to fuck you girls, it's not your problem how hairy my legs are. If I were looking for compliments, I'd try to fit the beauty standard but I shouldn't be condemned just for not doing it, especially when otherwise, I take care of myself.

 

[Dogged]

I've always had superfine hair that takes a while to grow. I wax my legs more often in summer to stay cool, but most people don't even notice whether or not I let my leg hair grow. Although when I want to feel super smooth sexy, I'll wax and then put on Hanes silk reflections silky sheer Pantyhose‎. They feel like a silky caress on my legs and I love it! I cant' say many people in my family have ever put much emphasis on hairy or smooth legs. I didn't realize it could -be- a topic until I just saw it up here on the board.

 

[RedRose]

I had to laugh about the European-esque comment.
I live in Europe and definitely see it all in the summer. I admire women who don't care about trends. I do think it's easier when you are NOT told that shaving is about hygiene or really a "thing" in school, and when it is a choice you make or not later on. I would be too self conscious to go out with unshaved armpits and a tank top for sure...

 

[Mitsu]

People should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with their body, so long as it doesn't somehow harm other people. A woman shaving or not shaving her legs doesn't mean much in the long run. Societal pressures suck, but it's one of the minor ones that I think most women should ignore. Shave your legs if you want, or don't.

I'm not really adding anything to this conversation, but those are my simple thoughts.

 

[HeyThereLittleBear]

I don't shave my legs often or regularly. I do it when I'm tired of hearing my husband complain about my scratchy leg hair or when he jokingly pulls up a pants leg to "compare" our leg hair length (it doesn't get that bad, but he likes to make me feel like it does).

I don't wear hosiery ever because I hate how it feels and I despise the way it looks. Last time I did wear anything it was fishnet stockings because I'm super *~classy~* [/sarcasm]

 

[trashchild]

For me shaving is something I'd rather not endure. I love the feeling of smooth legs on duvets, one of the best and most pleasurable things for me. But I was gifted with emetics that seem to disagree on the idea of shaving.

I have my heritage set in Northern Europe and Russia, so if you couldn't already guess where this is going- I'm as white as paper and have hair like a gorilla. Coarse and thick almost black hair mixed with super sensitive skin, it doesn't turn out well. Making shaving in all forms painful. Very painful. Chances would be most of the hair I shaved would become ingrown hairs, making daily life painful.

On the same hand, not shaving is just as bad. Like other people stated it gets itchy- all over.

At this rate I'm highly debating the options of laser hair removal, or whatever it is, just so I can enjoy smooth legs with little to no hair at all.

Yes, to an extent I feel obligated to shave for partners and the public simply because I can't hide the evidence as well as others. Simply because I had partners tell me they'd rather I shaved, but would demand a union more frequent I enjoyed with such shaving demands.

So in other words, shaving legs is something I do for special occasions or for my own pleasure.

 

[Aurelius Augustus]

I remember that question. I answered "No" and underneath I added an explanation.

" Obligation? No. But I'm also not obligated to think that its an attractive lifestyle choice. (If you don't)"

 

[cyx.]

i, personally, don't really find hair attractive, but it doesn't bother me to a point where i'd ever ask someone to shave something for me. i can work around what needs to be worked around no fucking problem - if you're comfortable not shaving / shaving, you do you. don't let me impede on that.

as for shaving myself? i personally like to be hairless; it feels better to me, less itchy, i feel more hygienic, etc. i do have sensitive skin, though, so i couldn't shave on a monday, and then shave again before at least friday. luckily, i don't really have thick hair, so by the time that it's back to a length that doesn't hurt to shave, or run the risk of a lot of ingrown hairs, it's hard to tell unless you brush my leg or something.

i don't get the whole, shave or don't shave thing. i figured it was just another preference that everyone had; like drinking from the tap, or instead buying bottled water. people have their specific preferences for what they like, and there's nothing wrong with them pursuing those things, whatever they may be - taking into consideration, like mitsu said, no one's being harmed. (and, to be honest, someone else's body hair shouldn't effect you to that extent. getting hooked up on little things that has nothing to do with you is just silly.)

 

[Soph]

For me it's simple. I shave because I feel ugly when I don't, so yes, I shave because it's culture (or maybe societal pressure even, as it's called).. But I'm willing to go further, if you're in a relationship, you should not stop shaving without permission. I wouldn't like my boyfriend to stop shaving his privates either.