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A curious thought...

darkangel76

darkangel76

.:The Vampiric Fae:.
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Jan 26, 2010
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Why do you care?
So, I was curious...

A fair number of us consider ourselves creative writers. Most of us who consider ourselves as much have request threads, plot threads, character threads and so on. Then, on those threads, we list out potential plot ideas and character ideas and other such creative tidbits to help either organize our thoughts and/or entice possible RP partners. Now, just because we do this, doesn't mean that any and all of our creative ideas get listed out for all to see. There are still more that never make it to such threads and only come to fruition via PMs or other such forms of more private communications with possible RP partners because maybe they didn't want to do the exact idea you had listed but wanted to write with you regardless. So, perhaps you posed an idea and/or created a character specifically for them OR maybe they came to you with a pairing and you then created the plot, etc etc. A whole slew of possibilities here.

My question now is where does one draw the line? How far is far and what amount of etiquette should be used as far as anything and everything goes when it comes to using ideas, characters, etc you participate in writing an RP in?

If you come up with the idea and suddenly find you aren't liking the way the RP is going and thus your interest wanes or suddenly you find you don't like how your character is developing so you wish to drop the RP and perhaps start something new... is the other person in the right to just continue on and seek a new RP partner and pick up where you left off? When YOU came up with the idea and/or character, especially? Are they within their right to retry an idea of yours--assuming you are the one who came up with it, NOT them--or should they just leave it be and come up with something else or something similar?

Again, I'm just curious as to what people think here and am wondering what sorts of experiences others might have had. I know that I'm not the sort to re-use something of another's, only those of my own and even then, if it's a plot, I let my new partner have free rein to help me make it different. I wouldn't just have a partner try and be a character that another ex partner played, if that makes any sense.

So, what do people think on this?
 
I don't mind sharing ideas and I don't really mind if someone carries on with a plot I've worked hard to create as long as they ask me first.

One of the strangest feelings I ever had in RPing was actually when I was quite young. I had worked hard to organize a group RP recruit good people for it and write and interesting plot. The plot was one my friend had started and had given me permission to use long ago from a piece of her original fiction. After months of our group doing this RP and various characters coming and going we finally felt it was time to shut it down. This was about the same time I stopped going to that particular forum. The rules had all changed and it just wan't for me any more. Almost a year later I stopped in to see if I could get a hold of any of my old RP buddies and low and behold an RP of the same title and plot was in the RP Section of the forums done by a different author and someone who WAS NOT EVEN IN THE ORIGINAL. I messaged him and said you really shouldn't take other peoples ideas without permission, he thinking I was just one of the original players tried to convince me the idea was his first. Nothing I said would convince him I was the original creator of the plot. It was a bizarre encounter. I was both a little flattered that my idea hung on so long but really frustrated that no one asked and that it had been taken completely out of my control.

I definitely don't like the idea of anyone taking over a character I've roleplayed. Characters contain traces of our own personalities a lot of the time and seeing or even knowing someone else is trying to be that character feels a little like identity theft. Just my thought on it.
 
I agree, kuro. Asking is a HUGE deal to me. If I even remotely want to use an idea of someone else's even in part, I always ask them. ALWAYS!!!! It can as simple as a title to something as complex as a plot idea. But yes, characters are always mine and I'd never touch some else's. Just... no.
 
Honestly, it depends on the person and if consent is given/gotten. I had an RP that stopped a while ago because my partner couldn't proceed onward with his proper role. However, he did ask me if I wouldn't mind offering others to pick up where it was left off. I said no -- partly because I did [somewhat] hope the RP would continue but also it was the courteous thing to do. And it was based off of one of my plots, so it was basically my idea.

I don't usually lash out at people (not OOC anyways =P) but one of the times I do/will, it's because of something like that ... when people just outright assume I'll be fine with something like that. I won't always be and I very highly prefer others to ask. Just as I expect the same respect back, I'll more than gladly give it in return on the off-chance I get inspired by someone else's idea and give credit where it's due.

In fact, I did to Razgriz for one of my new rules I posted up recently in my search thread. Why? Because it seemed wrong to take their rule [even if it was worded slightly differently] and not give credit or admit that it wasn't my idea.

The same thing, in my eyes, goes for plot ideas and things of the like.

Hope this helps, DarkAngel76~

^.^
 
See, again, it came down to asking and/or permission being given. I know I'm fine with most things when asked first and foremost. But when I'm not or if credit isn't given... I tend to feel violated or like someone is trying to be underhanded and steal something. Granted this is my own personal deal and not everyone might feel the same and power to them, I guess. But if I see my stuff taken, I'll feel pretty pissed off and have that person forever flagged thereafter because my trust in them as far as writing goes will have dropped down to nil. I mean, even when I write a fandom, I still like to give credit to the fandom I'm writing so that the established author is credited for crying out loud! And since what we're writing for our RPs is more than likely not really established, it just is courtesy to ask. Again, this is me and how I roll. But then I live by the whole give respect thing too.
 
Its like a fandom, if i created an entire world with complex characters and different lands and what not, I would be okay with that person using it as long as they credit me. Just dont use my character, that would be kind of weird...
 
@DarkAngel76: Nah, I understand. True, not everyone has this standing but especially if you make it clear to the other person you want consent for such permissions and they ignore this ... it seems fair to me. I'd want the same respect back, especially if I told them that ahead of time. I don't have many but there are some buttons that if get pushed, I take personally as well. Not being acknowledged for my ideas and such is definitely one of them.

Don't feel bad on your own views. It'd be worse trying to lie to yourself or doubt yourself when you know where you stand, per se. That's how I see it anyways.
 
Generally what I feel on the matter is that if it's a one-on-one rp, that if the creator leaves, then the other could find a new person to fill in that spot. Though, if it was reliant on the one who left, then I would see no harm in restarting it with the same idea if said person liked it enough. They may throw in a few twists to it, as they didn't know what the creator was thinking on what was going to happen next, but the essential base of it would still be there, and I find that fine.

Now, with group role plays, it's different. I feel that if the creator of the thread just up and leaves, that the other participants should continue the role play, as there's more than one person still in it. There would always be at least two in it after the owner leaves, and anyone would be able to join in if they want. All they would need to do is decide on which of the members would take the spot of the old owner's position, so they could continue on from there.
 
I agree with you there on the group thing Yoru. If I have created a group RP I've done it with the intention of having a GROUP of people play and input ideas. If I leave permanently and that same RP continues that's fine. Usually I will find away to remove my character permanently from the story. What I explained above is a situation I don't agree with. As a group we agreed to end our story and someone pilfered it and started over. Not only are they taking my original idea but they are insulting the original group that played.
 
With 1x1s, I think taking an idea that was created by yourself is fine to just up and carry on. You can restart it with someone else. Reuse your old character with a new one, whatever. But if the idea was NOT yours... I don't think you should just up and take it without asking the creator. That, to me, is just up and stealing. More than likely if you ask, the creator will be fine with you borrowing it (and probably ask you to give a note of credit)... but asking just shows that level of courtesy and the fact that you respected them as a writing partner, etc etc etc. But to not bother? Yeah. To me it just shows you didn't give a flying rat's ass, had no respect for the other person's ideas, writing, nothing. It's why I have a plot thread. EVERYONE will KNOW what ideas are mine. I don't do that with co-created stories though because I feel it's wrong to do that to my co-creator. After all, it's partially theirs. So, anything on here not solely mine or not mine at all will NOT show up in my plot thread. But that doesn't mean I didn't have input. On things not mine at all, I'd expect my writing partners to reuse their ideas. But the co-created.... we worked on them together.... I would hope they'd ask. But again, this is just me. And for characters, I still say that's fucked up to take someone else's no matter how you slice it. I will stand by that til I'm blue in the face, lol!
 
Well, having been at this on other sites for a number of years, I've had some experience with RP's ending. In fact, I recently was part of a group where I had a nice adult horror story going based on a idea that was inspired by an indie RPG I'd seen published by an indie publisher. Now, I had to leave all my stories due to some personal issues going on as well as it was getting hard to want to write this one in particular as I felt like I was doing all the heavy lifting. When I left, the person I was RPing seemed devastated in losing me and said she'd like to start a similar idea. My friend RPs the forum there and told me that they idea she and another person discussed basically had the same exact premise as the one I put out there in the original ad looking for a partner.

When he told me this, I was a bit shocked and a bit hurt, even though I wouldn't call it as original an idea as most of my others being inspired by a small RP game. But, I like to consider myself a writer and the idea that and idea I crafted was being used without so much as a 'hope you don't mind' was a little hurtful. Especially after the way she had put it when I left about having me as a partner, I felt a bit hurt. In fact, I think I was more hurt then a lot of previous ones.

I don't think I get as upset when people take my idea as if I've worked an idea with another person and it fails, I usually don't want to revisit that same idea again. I may rework it and come up with a very different variation if the theme is one I liked.

Still, that said, I do find it a little insulting if someone blatantly takes an idea of mine without asking or giving credit in their own add. If I was RPing with a person and we just weren't clicking, it happens, and we decided to call it quits and they asked me, hey do you mind if I get someone else to write this idea with me I'd gladly say go ahead. But, yeah, I do feel a bit of a sting to my ego when someone continues on without asking or, worse, doesn't think I'm a good enough (or appropriate enough) writer and takes my idea and puts it in their ad without ever having RPed with me or asked. I think it's just appropriate that if the one partner really want to continue with the idea that you've hashed out together to just give a heads up and say is this ok. To me, I'm honored that someone likes the idea enough to want to use it since I'm often doubtful of my own ideas and works so when it's good enough that someone wants to keep going with it, I feel it a bit of an ego boost.
 
I toss my ideas without care to the world, to whither or bloom with or without me. Simple, I don't care, so many ideas are repeated from something else that it doesn't matter. Now it might be due to my back ground in table top gaming and my habit of stealing where ever I can for said gaming; but I honestly want to create something that others find interesting enough to steal from, whether in bits and pieces or as a whole.

Fuck the world, I'll see it burn!
 
Very eloquently said, Red. I pretty much agree with everything you said regarding 1x1 RPing in its entirety. Bottom line, if it isn't yours solely and completely... YOU ASK!
 
I'm not sure when it happened, but I stopped enjoying collaborative writing. I dropped out of the RP scene, and disengaged with all forms of co-operative writing. Most of my reasons behind this roll, very much, along the same lines as you have questioned. Often times stories diverge from where I envisioned them, characters develop in ways I hadn't planned. This is usually the very thing most people, and myself in the past, enjoy about roleplaying. Somewhere along the line, I lost interest. I have to say, that because of this my writing has definitely suffered. That's rather unfortunate, and even as I have tried to reinvigorate my interest and my skills... somethings just, don't come back to you. I do love this community, and it's the people, not the RP's that bring me back time after time.
 
I'd want them to ask me first. As someone who loves art I see it as no different than tracing someone's drawing and claiming it as your own. The more you change and add to it the more okay it'll be fine to me, but if you just take exactly what I have I'll definitely be iffy.
 
Indeedy... how about this scenario.

Say you come up with a majority of a basic plot premise with only a few things being filled in by your writing partner. Then, say, after you both exchange about 5 posts apiece, you decide you don't like how things are going. It could be you don't like how your character is developing, how the plot is unfolding past the initial set up and idea, the chemistry between you and your writing partner, etc or any mix of these things. You are also the one to have started the thread on top of having come up with the majority of the plot--and by majority, I'm talking 95 - 98% of the plot. When you make the decision to end it, you are courteous enough to let your writing partner know so that they aren't left in a lurch. They respond saying that they understand, blah blah. THEN.... that same day and/or the following day they advertise a request thread stating that they want to continue YOUR thread (and thus story/RP) you created for a plot YOU more or less created since you did most of the grunt work. And, I might mention, they never asked you about doing this. They just... did it. How would this make you feel??? Especially if your characters had already started interacting...?

I know I wouldn't be overly happy. Personally, I would want the person to ask me first. To just go ahead like that would sit wrong with me entirely. If they wanted to reuse the plot line and start over, I'd be ok with it, but I would still want them to ask me since I was the one who more or less came up with the idea. And I know for a fact, I wouldn't want them to just continue on with my 1x1 thread, especially if I had started it and we'd been posting. If they had started it, it wouldn't be as terrible, though still rather weird to me and again... I'd still want to be asked first. But again, these are just my own thoughts and opinions and I'm curious if anyone else would think the same or differently here for this specific situation.
 
I do not mind if someone takes my ideas, and decides to use them. It would be amazingly hypocritical of me to mind, considering I role-play a whole lot of fandoms. Anyone that does role-play fandoms, should probably keep that in mind. I would think it to be very arrogant and intellectually dishonest (I use this term loosely) to presume that one's ideas, characters, and plots are so different than the creations of popular works-- it all comes from the mind of one or many, and who is anyone to take from them, but safeguard the ownership of their own intellectual property? I don't believe that anything I create is so special or untouchable that it is guarded from the hands of whoever would like to use it-- granted things are different if money is involved, because I wouldn't like someone making money off of my ideas without my inclusion.

That all being said, it is only a compliment when someone decides to utilize my ideas. Someone likes what I came up with to such a degree that they'll use it to role-play, write a story, or even illustrate it. I think that is pretty neat. If it allows other people to enjoy themselves, then I have no reason to complain.
 
While I can agree with the bit about fandoms.... fandoms are established and known. So people clearly know what fandoms are and where they are being borrowed from. There is typically no doubt or question involved and never a risk that someone could try to actually steal the idea as their own. So, though no money is involved, it's a known thing. Our stuff isn't known. So if someone comes along and steals your stuff... no one will know because you aren't a 'known', you aren't an established fandom. Now, if you were established, that might be something else entirely. For me, I have no issue if someone borrows my stuff so long as I'm made aware prior--given I am an unknown entity to the masses. I would like to be given that respect and courtesy of being asked prior to use and then perhaps given credit depending on the situation if it is called for. Perhaps I feel this way because I've been out and out plagiarized before... to a point where the person had stolen my work verbatim, tried to pass it off as their own and only got screwed when I showed them up by having the subsequent finished chapters that they themselves could not produce along with the time tracked edits... who knows. But, it's how I feel nonetheless. But I'll tell you this. Being plagiarized... you feel pretty damned violated. And for these situations for RP... it feels the same way. At least for me.
 
First off, I'm going to state that there's a fine line between actively claiming something is one's own work, and just using it without giving credit. My post will explain that I have no issue with the later of the two.

If I base my role-play on a grossly obscure, but published, title, is it a big deal? Where do you draw the line of popularity, and what is and is not okay to "rip off"? You're creating a double standard that I do not agree with. What it comes down to is egotistical massaging, and the inability to accept that someone else is "taking" ownership of what one perceives as their own intellectual property. I don't believe, or I try not to, in painting in greyscale to fit my own emotional needs. If ripping off one person's ideas is wrong, then it should be wrong to rip off anyone's ideas, no matter how popular it is. The set I made for you features absolutely none of my own artwork, or yours, and yet you display it proudly. Why not credit the artist of the woman? Why not credit the person that that created the textures I used? Is it somehow less wrong than if someone were to display your own ideas and works without permission or giving you credit? Why don't you care about that person's violation? Your answer may paint you a hypocrite.

The very nature of the graphics I create is to use other people's hard work, and modify it with my own inferior ability-- I would not need their art if I was capable of producing it on my own. I do not credit these people, unless I feel the need to make it clear what I did and did not do-- this can avoid confusion from a technical standpoint. I do not make a profit off of anything I do, so I have absolutely no issue in doing it. If asked, I'm clear and honest about what is mine and isn't mine, but it isn't often a concern of mine to make it known beforehand. Is what I do so different than someone taking role-play ideas, and making it "their" own? I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it is.

As far as straight plagiarism goes, to actively claim that the IP is theirs, it's wrong whether it's popular or not. It is an intentionally malicious, deceptive act. There was a huge case of plagiarism (of art, and you know who I'm talking about... maybe) on this very website, which I sniffed out for the fun of it. They hung themselves, because someone is always bound to find out. It's a fools game they play, so expose them and move on. If they still want to continue on after being exposed, then that's their business. Everyone now knows it isn't their idea, or they can easily discover the fact. Any further action against them just seems like ego stroking to me, and further need for recognition. Is it really so terrible that other people are enjoying something you created? Do you really need the credit so badly?

Granted, as I said before, this is a different matter when there's a value of currency placed on that idea.
 
It has nothing to do with ego... I know for me, it has more to do with a personal investment in a character. If someone is going to up and do something to an existing thread I created where the plot I created had all to do with a character of mine that is personal... it just sets wrong. Call it what you will. I mean, I have no issue if the person wants to use an idea, but to up and do that blatantly in my face without asking when the story had to do with my character... I don't know... just feels like that person had no respect. Plus, keep in mind that the person isn't someone who happened to read it. This is the person you'd been co-writing with, who should know that you were the one to do this and that. So, again, there's a bit of a difference in that feeling too. I know I'd feel differently if it was a random person vs the one I'd been writing with, if that makes any sense. The random person has no idea of the process involved while the co-writer does/did. I don't know... perhaps my views are just different and if they are... so be it. I can accept that. I know my own practice in co-writing is to always ask my partner if it's ok to continue on without them if they drop and I'll continue that practice regardless of whether anyone agrees with me or not. And I do that because it just feels right for me to do so.
 
In my opinion if you create the plot idea then whoever wants to use it after you've created it should indeed ask for permission before using it. Characters that I create are MINE and while I may re use my characters at points I don't want others using them. My characters are thought out and I create them in a way that I personally can work with and build their story while building the story in the RP as well and I just get kinda connected to my characters. All in all I think if you've worked to build a plot and someone wants to use it then the right thing to do is ask permission before just stealing it.
 
Since RP is a form of creative writing, surely the etiquette for our art should be the same as for more conventional fiction. If someone invents a story, then it is extremely bad manners for someone else to steal it and use it in its entirety. Given that international copyright legislation does not only apply to professional or published works, it is also illegal. However, only that specific interpretation is copyright - you can't "copyright" a concept, a plot, a title, or a type of character.

If, for example, I created a RP with sexi_suzi called "Love in the Glade," about a romance between a red-skinned elf called Sianora (created by my partner) and a snake-scaled demon called Alfonz (created by me,) and we decide to bring the RP to a halt, then I regard Alfonz and everything I have posted to that date as copyrighted by me. sexi_suzi should not carry on the RP with another player, and neither she nor anyone else may use Alfonz without my permission. Neither may I use Sianora, or carry on the RP with another player, unless sexi_suzi gives her permission.

On the other hand, there's nothing to stop sexi_suzi or anyone else doing another RP with the same title, using different characters, or creating totally different characters called "Alfonz," or using the same plot with different characters. Or, for that matter, doing exactly the same characters and stories again with my permission given to use Alfonz, and there is no requirement for them to even acknowledge or reference that permission (though it would be a courtesy)...

Example from recent literature: In 1999, Koushun Takam wrote a novel called "Battle Royale" which was about a group of children forced to slaughter each other in an arena by an oppressive government. Some years later, Suzanne Collins wrote "The Hunger Games" trilogy, about a group of children (and later, adults) forced into exactly the same situation. Though Collins used the same central idea as Takam, she developed it in an entirely different way, with markedly different characters and settings. There is no question of either copyright infringement or an "artistic rip off." Similarly, if some other author wrote a story using the same concept, but with different characters, this is perfectly OK.

However, if they wrote, say, a novel dealing with Katniss Everdeen's life after the events in "Mockingjay" it would be a copyright infringment of the character, unless they had the original author's approval. All Collins' invented characters and places (Peeta Mellark, Panem, Alma Coin, Primrose Everdeen, etc) are her artistic property.

But they could, with impunity, write a story about children being made to kill each other called "The Evil Arena,", or a story about a starving family in Africa called "The Hunger Games," or call a character "Jennifer Everdeen"...

Similarly, in RP you can't copyright a pairing (Mermaid x Sailor,) or a plot (Bad girl falls in love with good girl,) or a setting (Vampire High School,) or a name (Wendy Jackson,) - if you could, then hardly anyone would be able to RP at all, until the RP of the previous person to "bag" the name was finished!

All this, I stress, is my personal view only - maybe someone else has another take on it.
 
I don't really have to worry about this, since I end up using psychopathic characters. However, I've come up with some pretty amazing plots with some of my RP partners. I think that would rub me wrong is if some random person tried to use the plots/story/ideas we came up with as a team and said it was theirs. Otherwise, if my partner decided to take the idea [but not my character] I'd be fine with it.
 
This is a little secret info about me but what I write about and what I rope play about are two different things. The reason why I do this is because there are times where I put all this work in thinking about an idea with the concept and the characters and how I want things to work out and then it fails. Maybe the people like the general idea but couldn’t see what I could see or I wanted it. It’s disappointing when all of your hard work just die like that. What more so is that a lot of people that I role play with in the past like to piggy back, they will things that they like from different role plays and jumble it up into one big thing. Sometimes that works and other time it’s a silly stupid idea. The ideas that you come up with and someone takes it and runs with it, shows your idea was good base on how far they can take it. I would feel little ticked off that someone took my Role play, but also proud that they saw something and went out of their way to copy it which is a high form of flattery in my book.
 
Freestylechamp said:
This is a little secret info about me but what I write about and what I rope play about are two different things. The reason why I do this is because there are times where I put all this work in thinking about an idea with the concept and the characters and how I want things to work out and then it fails. Maybe the people like the general idea but couldn’t see what I could see or I wanted it. It’s disappointing when all of your hard work just die like that. What more so is that a lot of people that I role play with in the past like to piggy back, they will things that they like from different role plays and jumble it up into one big thing. Sometimes that works and other time it’s a silly stupid idea. The ideas that you come up with and someone takes it and runs with it, shows your idea was good base on how far they can take it. I would feel little ticked off that someone took my Role play, but also proud that they saw something and went out of their way to copy it which is a high form of flattery in my book.
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All of this!!
 
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