"Underage" Characters

[Incubus Dreams]

Before I state my concerns, let me first stress that I would, under no circumstances, encourage the sexual exploitation of a young girl in the confines of reality. Under most circumstances, I would step away and report such acts to the proper authorities as soon as possible, even at the risk of going out of my way to do so.

That said, this is a writing site and I am capable of separating myself from my writing enough to handle just about anything. In my past twenty-four hours here, I have been contacted by an individual who will go unnamed for some role play. That's all well and good; it is why I am here. The conceived plot, however, contains a young girl of fifteen. Again, since this is a work of pure fiction, I am capable of writing this plot with said person but I am concerned of the legal ramifications.

So my question/concern is this: How does Blue Moon legally permit underage characters? Obviously, the age of consent is different from country to country, but most writing sites stick to sixteen or eighteen (the ages of consent in Britain and America respectively). Does Blue Moon operate out of another country or is there some internet fiction law protecting the site and its members?

 

[Vekseid]

There is no literary restriction on fiction in the United States. You can write whatever story you wish to and distribute it from whatever medium permits you. There is certainly no shortage of people who have claimed to have reported us to the 'authorities', and I have exchanged details and reports with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, as well as the British equivalent. They are aware of Blue Moon and Elliquiy both, and I have not heard a peep regarding the former allowing writing for characters aged 13 to 15.

Considering the types of people that those sorts of roleplays attract, however, I would not be opposed to discussing raising the server limit to 16 for all sites.

Basically, the only two categories of things that are actively illegal are inciting/coordinating criminal activities (making threats, inviting people to do drugs at your place, etc.) and posting copyrighted material without associated rights (there are some grey areas that we allow - avatars being the most obvious case, here - where we feel the amount being used is sufficiently small, transformative, personal, and non-impacting to be legitimate - but if someone posts the full text to 50 Shades of Gray or Twilight we are obligated to take it down on being notified of such).

 

[Karameida]

The main thing is : the girl has to have gone through puberty. The age limit is 13 and older.

 

[Mitsu]

There is no literary restriction on fiction in the United States. You can write whatever story you wish to and distribute it from whatever medium permits you. There is certainly no shortage of people who have claimed to have reported us to the 'authorities', and I have exchanged details and reports with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, as well as the British equivalent. They are aware of Blue Moon and Elliquiy both, and I have not heard a peep regarding the former allowing writing for characters aged 13 to 15.

This is very interesting. I had no idea that people have actually reported both sites to legal authorities. It's also very similar to how certain hentai websites can get away with posting all kinds of loli, shota, and bestiality artwork. In the United States, depictions of minors in sexual acts that are not "obscene" are, to a degree, protected by the first amendment. I say to a degree, because it's a rather murky area. Typically, as long as it's a fictional character, and not a photograph or real life minor, it tends to be safe. I should also note that images usually hold more weight than words. Furthermore, the usage of obscene typically falls on whether or not the pornography in question is harmful-- real pedophilia, real bestiality, ect.

 

[Vekseid]

Images of underaged characters - even drawn or rendered - are illegal in Canada and their status in the United States is dubious enough. I don't want them on my server in any case.

Written fiction is pretty well protected in both countries, however.

 

[Mitsu]

Images of underaged characters - even drawn or rendered - are illegal in Canada and their status in the United States is dubious enough. I don't want them on my server in any case.

Written fiction is pretty well protected in both countries, however.

I can't help but totally agree with you. That kind of content just doesn't belong here.

Furthermore, I personally wouldn't be against the general age limitations being bumped up to 16. I mostly play older characters anyway.

 

[Incubus Dreams]

Thank you for clearing this up, Veskeid. I will touch base with my partner and suggest raising the character's age to sixteen to prepare for the possibility of the age limit being raised. I, personally, would feel more comfortable with it anyway considering that while not legal in my own country, it is legal among many of our neighbors across the pond.

 

[PenitentKitten]

I realize I'm new, so I probably don't have a "vote," but I'd be more comfortable with a minimum age of at least 16, if not 18.

 

[darkangel76]

I think most people (though I wish it were all) know I'd prefer the age limit be 16 and older. So, if Vek is good with this, I'd MUCH rather see it done because quite honestly seeing younger squicks me out to no end and bordering on things that could be troublesome for the site overall. As it is, the worst offense this site sees are people trying to find loopholes with loli/shota. Seriously, I've seen it all now... nothing shocks me any more. But that doesn't leave me any less disgusted. So, with that thought. I'd rather see the age limit raised to 16 coupled with the post-puberty because I don't want to see people trying to get their fix by claiming--"But they are 16 and have no breasts and no hips and aren't menstruating." To me, those descriptions would NOT fly. Just my two cents.

 

[Razgriz]

If we do decide to up the minimum age to 16, you can know that you certainly have my vote

 

[Incubus Dreams]

Not that my opinion is worth much, being new and all, but I think that this is something that should probably be discussed if we have two different high-ranking admins here making the same claim. Regardless of what is decided, my PM has been sent and I am awaiting a response. That you again for clearing things up. I was unaware of the exact legalities of the subject matter at hand.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

I'd rather have the age limit raised and I'll be crude: I'm tired of fuckwads playing with kiddies.

 

[Magic Breeze]

Not sure if another thread or such will be made for people to give their two cents on this, or something... and perhaps, me not being one of oldest of users or anything like it, said two cents might not weigh all that much in any decision, but I thought I'd say something anyway.

Honestly, reading things with characters 13 years old (which I guess is the concern, I can only assume those who are PART of the roleplay don't mind) doesn't personally bother me. Well, it might, depending on how it's written... And I can understand why it might to others, though, just like characters bellow that age, or prepubescent, or what not - do bother me a bit...
But I can honestly think of tons of other things that make me sick to read, and no one poses a problem about them. Not that I want them to! That's the thing. We all have to be 18 to be here, right? We're not impressionable kids or anything, and we are all able, or damn well should be, to discern right from wrong and fiction from reality. And everything that contains sexual situations with such young characters (or anything else I or anyone could be squeamish about) is just that - fiction. That's what they are - characters.
No one is making anyone read any of such stories. No one makes me read anything I don't want, like things involving torture or death or anything else that disturbs me, or just makes me plain uncomfortable.

Basically, my opinion is we're all consenting adults (if anyone is not, they should not be here). It's all fiction, and it doesn't hurt anyone. No one can make us read or write anything we don't want to, so can't hurt anyone (psychologically) that way either. If this stuff doesn't get the site in any sort of problem with the law, I don't see what the big deal is.

I might just be very pro-freedom-of-speech, in any case it doesn't hurt anyone...But this is just my honest opinion - I really don't want to step on any toes or anything.

All that said, the site is not mine. The admins are perfectly within their right to limit what content goes in it, even if it has nothing to do with legality or anything of the sort. If the rules on age are changed, I'm not going to be a brat and be all "Bleh! If you up the age, I'm leaving! Wah!" or something.
In fact, if the age limit for characters is raised, it's still all good on my part, as I usually play characters at least 16 years of age. If anything, as I do like playing them that age often enough, I'll admit I may be a bit biased when I suggest raise it to 16 at most... =p

If it's to be raised between 16 or 18, it wouldn't affect me that much. So like I said, I'm really just sharing my opinion, in case it matters at all. ^^;

 

[Vekseid]

Federal law says members here must be 17+, state laws may vary. Our own rules say 18+ for membership, because that's what a lot of states use and might prosecute anyway even if no law is on the books, so...

The issue is...

I'd rather have the age limit raised and I'll be crude: I'm tired of fuckwads playing with kiddies.

...as Hahvoc hints at, a lot of the people roleplaying such characters often want them to be even younger. They tend to fall into two categories, and we really don't want either one here.

I'm big on free speech, too, but there's also the issue of the environment. We do restrict certain types of speech that are technically 'legal' - general asshattery, trolling, posting personal details, etc. We want an environment here that people are comfortable with participating in, and if something impacts that negatively - if the 13-15 stuff needs to go - then yeah, lets.

I'd prefer a longer discussion on this, perhaps in General or in the Announcements forum with stickies pointing to it.

 

[Feral.Desires]

Just throwing my two cents in... I very much agree with and support the age being raised from 16, if not 18.

Hahvy, I love you. You couldn't have said it better. Writing or not, for someone to want that is absolutely abhorrent. Hence why I, like a lot of us, state rather loud and clear that we will refuse playing with/as someone under 18. I'm a woman and a mother, I sure as hell have no interest in young teens or otherwise, not will I be the fix to a pedophilic fantasy.

 

[darkangel76]

I will state my reasons as to why I'd like the age limit for characters to be raised and perhaps not everyone will like to hear this, however I will be blunt, yet tactful.

The reason is simple enough--while there are those who are tasteful and do not push things to the point of disgusting when it comes to the current younger ages that are allowed on site at this time, there are those on site (the vast majority who gun for this sort of RP) who unfortunately abuse the privilege. Unfortunately, it is this majority, at least from my own experiences both as a member and as a staff member, that has caused me to formulate this opinion. These people push the limit, border on hostile with staff most of the time and tend to do things in creepy ways by trying to pull things into the realm of the real world. In other words they use this site as a means to stalk and prey. This happens far too often for my liking and would more than likely decrease with the character age limits increasing. At present, the rule most commonly broken is the loli/shota rule. Do you people realize that we have members who think they are slick and try to stealthily request their characters be 8 years old and such and be in sexual situations? Yes. This happens. And it is horrifying. I'm not saying that upping the age will oust this all together, but we are likely to have a decrease and I am all for that if it means keeping creepers and stalkers away. It is an unfortunate side effect that those out there who understand the rule and would write tastefully within its boundaries would have to be affected, but I'd rather be cautious and make the change. Plus, I do think that those who truly understand the rules of this place and want what is best for it would understand that.

 

[darkangel76]

http://bluemoonroleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=40895 -- For further and more formal discussion.

 

[Karameida]

Just gonna throw this in as well, I'm all for the age being raised to 16. Fully support that completely. I have my own reasons for wanting this but I also agree with what DA said. I won't bring my opinions in to it since it's not very nice so, just to reiterate, I support the idea of raising the age limit to 16.

 

[ChrisGabriel]

About the minimum age...
I am sure you all had seen girls aged between 13 and 16 that are mature looking enough. And I am sure there are tons of similarly aged mothers out there...

Still, there is no way that they are ready to the intricates of having a sexual relationship. I stress the relationship part here, for they are sure ready to have sex! They are just not psychologically and emotionally grown up enough to really see what they are doing.

And about the legality... Well, it is not legal to kill another or rob somebody, or steal, people still do it all the time. It is just the question about being caught, or having a clear conscience...

So, if the site make it clear that they do not condone the motion to have legally underage characters, or to have physically or psychologically undeveloped characters in play, the players themselves could still do so if they really wish... Just not on the public forums.

After all, if they want, they could still do it in email or some IM - with greater possibility to being targeted by some inquisitive secret service cybersquad.

 

[solitaryman]

As for me, I do not engage in a role play plot involving such pairings, as daddy/daughter, teacher/student, or any pairing that would involve an underage character. For me 18 and older is the standard. That is about as simply put as I can make it, and done without having to use profanity, i.e the f-word, to make my point.

 

[Hahvoc The Decepticon]

About the minimum age...
I am sure you all had seen girls aged between 13 and 16 that are mature looking enough. And I am sure there are tons of similarly aged mothers out there...

Still, there is no way that they are ready to the intricates of having a sexual relationship. I stress the relationship part here, for they are sure ready to have sex! They are just not psychologically and emotionally grown up enough to really see what they are doing.

And about the legality... Well, it is not legal to kill another or rob somebody, or steal, people still do it all the time. It is just the question about being caught, or having a clear conscience...

So, if the site make it clear that they do not condone the motion to have legally underage characters, or to have physically or psychologically undeveloped characters in play, the players themselves could still do so if they really wish... Just not on the public forums.

After all, if they want, they could still do it in email or some IM - with greater possibility to being targeted by some inquisitive secret service cybersquad.

Using the site to solicit such things results in a ban.

And not all girls between the ages of 13-16 are ready for sex regardless of how they look.

 

[shyone]

I'd rather have the age limit raised and I'll be crude: I'm tired of fuckwads playing with kiddies.

My opinion is pretty much summed up by that. Seriously don't want that stuff around here.

 

[Syrie]

I agree with the age limit being raised to sixteen. Even though I've been requested to do it in the past, but I no longer like nor favour the idea of fourteen... or even below that.
I think I'm more in agreement with sixteen over eighteen due to the fact of certain roleplays take place in the olden days where people did not live long.
One thing I definitely don't like though, is if someone uses a 'real life photo' for a character that is underaged. I don't think that is allowed, but I could be wrong. I saw it once before, I believe it was of a picture of Selena Gomez or something when she was sixteen.

At anyrate, I think the limit being sixteen is the right age.
I think that's also because I know people, like me, who like to do 'high school' rp's. Plus, you have a lot of fandoms where the characters are still in high school.