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"Tell that to a plant, how dangerous carbon dioxide is."

RoryN said:
Santorum is conspiring to turn the Earth over to the Plant People!
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Fortunately the plant people are weak against fire and mankind has been on top of that shit for a while.
 
In early earth there was no free oxygen and plant life ruled. But, as it turns out, plants shit oxygen and animals came to the for. Given that plants can't 'flee' the animals found easy pickings and oxygen levels rose to 30% or higher which made 3 foot long dragon flies possible. Animals started to feed on other animals and the oxygen levels dropped leading the mega-insects to go the same way as the dinosaur.

Today nursery growers use CO2 generators in their green houses to promote plant growth and increase production.

So, where is Santorum wrong?
 
The idea that because plastids utilize CO2 during cellular respiration and produce O2 alleviates the need to be responsible about how we treat the environment....makes him an ignoramus.

BTW CO2 in a green house is not to promote "extra" growth or anything...it's to prevent O2 saturation inside a greenhouse that doesn't have proper ventilation to maintain a normal CO2/O2 ratios you can actually kill and or fuck plants up with CO2 if you don't set it up right.
 
Actually, miles, I'm going to have to refute the last part of your statement

CO2 does promote extra growth

While I agree that too much CO2 does indeed fuck up plants (hell, it fucks up anything that depends on respiration - aerobic and anaerobic), the fact is elevated CO2 (within a reasonable limit) does help plants achieve higher levels of photosynthetic activity. So while I agree with what Santorum says (it's biologically true), I despise the angle he's saying it with.
 
miles said:
The idea that because plastids utilize CO2 during cellular respiration and produce O2 alleviates the need to be responsible about how we treat the environment....makes him an ignoramus.

BTW CO2 in a green house is not to promote "extra" growth or anything...it's to prevent O2 saturation inside a greenhouse that doesn't have proper ventilation to maintain a normal CO2/O2 ratios you can actually kill and or fuck plants up with CO2 if you don't set it up right.
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Well moron, I sure wasn't able to read as much into what he had to say as you, apparently, did.

Fact:

All life on the planet is dependent on plant life. If it's good for a plant, in the long run it's good for you and I. Warm and CO2 are good for plants (see the paleo-climate record for that), consequently it's good for us, 'us' being animals. Conversely cold and O2 rich is bad for plants.

Now, moron, these are established scientific facts. You take a sound bite and extrapolate out of it what was never said.
 
phrodeau said:
Well moron, I sure wasn't able to read as much into what he had to say as you, apparently, did.

Fact:

All life on the planet is dependent on plant life. If it's good for a plant, in the long run it's good for you and I. Warm and CO2 are good for plants (see the paleo-climate record for that), consequently it's good for us, 'us' being animals. Conversely cold and O2 rich is bad for plants.

Now, moron, these are established scientific facts. You take a sound bite and extrapolate out of it what was never said.
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Really?

Warm...full of CO2 (95/96%) and a dash of H2SO4

-venus-b.jpg


Runnaway greenhouse effect.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2002/02_60AR.html

So yes, to much CO2 is bad for plants as well as all life as the atmospheric ratios of various gas's are delicately balanced.
 
Razgriz said:
Actually, miles, I'm going to have to refute the last part of your statement

CO2 does promote extra growth

While I agree that too much CO2 does indeed fuck up plants (hell, it fucks up anything that depends on respiration - aerobic and anaerobic), the fact is elevated CO2 (within a reasonable limit) does help plants achieve higher levels of photosynthetic activity. So while I agree with what Santorum says (it's biologically true), I despise the angle he's saying it with.
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In proper balance it is but otherwise it's wrong and toxic. Mostly the reason I even posted this here was to discuss how Santorum is erroneously stating that the earth is indestructible and otherwise immune to human activity to further his political agenda.
 
The worst part is that he's not taking into account the other effects of elevated CO2 levels in the world: ocean acidification, anyone? Those little plankton have shell of...guess what? Calcium. Exposed to carbonic acid (CO2 + H20), that dissolves, leaving the shells brittle and the plankton more likely to die off. And if science has taught us anything, it's that the smallest organisms are very likely the most important ones.

Sorry for the nerd moment there, but I will add I did like the reference to the Venusian hothouse. Though the H2SO4 isn't really a necessary component to the runaway greenhouse effect; it does compound the habitability problem, however.
 
TL;DR

Believe it or not, plants don't have as huge of an effect on the cycle of O2 and CO2 as people think. Know why? Plants make up about....something like 4% of the earth's crust? Some insanely small number?

And when winter hits...guess what? They aren't converting C02 to O2. They are doing the opposite.

Ever consider what....OH SNAP...the OCEAN might be doing? The Ocean is a bigger converter/user of C02 than any other thing on the planet. Including all the creatures that live in it. The diatoms, dinoflagellates, and other things that are miniscule but pack a huge impact on the atmosphere...because people seem to forget that the Oceans came first. Everything else followed second.

Also* Too much of a good thing is actually bad. Why do you think there are deadzones in the oceans? Too much nutrients.
 
phrodeau said:
miles said:
The idea that because plastids utilize CO2 during cellular respiration and produce O2 alleviates the need to be responsible about how we treat the environment....makes him an ignoramus.

BTW CO2 in a green house is not to promote "extra" growth or anything...it's to prevent O2 saturation inside a greenhouse that doesn't have proper ventilation to maintain a normal CO2/O2 ratios you can actually kill and or fuck plants up with CO2 if you don't set it up right.
Click to expand...

Well moron, I sure wasn't able to read as much into what he had to say as you, apparently, did.

Fact:

All life on the planet is dependent on plant life. If it's good for a plant, in the long run it's good for you and I. Warm and CO2 are good for plants (see the paleo-climate record for that), consequently it's good for us, 'us' being animals. Conversely cold and O2 rich is bad for plants.

Now, moron, these are established scientific facts. You take a sound bite and extrapolate out of it what was never said.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....not true. All life isn't dependent on plant life. All life is dependent on the oceans. Without the oceans, nothing else would have even formed.
 
Just because Santorum was brought up:

He's an idiot. The Earth isn't as immune as he seems to believe. While we don't have as huge of an impact as some people believe, we do effect a small portion of it. Cows and termite mounds produce more methane and CO2 than cars do. I'm not exactly sure of the number, but a single termite mound produces more methane and C02 than 10 cars combined.

Btws - He also thinks that we should only fuck to reproduce. I think he has an unhappy wife and a sad penis.
 
Well, technically Hahvoc, he's not wrong; plants are the reason we have an atmosphere in the first place, since they provide the O2 necessary for the 78-21-1 gas mix we breathe. Even if they comprise a small percentage of the surface, their photosynthetic activities are vital to the survival of the Earth. And I should also point out that many of the microorganisms in the oceans are in fact plant-like, since they respire O2 in a similar manner.

And despite being relatively small in number, active volcanoes are quite the CO2 factories; though human activity still does dwarf them. The most recent estimate puts them at less than 1% of human-related CO2 production, about 200 million tons compared 27 billion tons from automotive and industrial processes.

And, I feel compelled to add that life is also extremely dependent on bacteria. Without the 99.9% of those beneficial little bastards, our cells wouldn't have the number of functions they have today and humans would get serious cases of E. coli

And @ Hahvy.......LOL, sad penis. Imma use that joke from now on.
 
Technically he's not totally right either. Which is why I brought it up. Everything started because of the oceans - which have more of an impact than plant life does. Plant life still has an impact, but not as much of one as some people seem to believe.

And we already have E. coli in our bodies. It's when we get it in our stomachs that that would be a problem.

And yes. A sad, sad penis.

http://www.ecology.com/2011/09/12/important-organism/

Btws - the only reason "life" depends on plants, is because there need for fires, houses, and other plant based materials. Plus, some animals eat leaves and stuff. And berries from trees. Otherwise, the oceans and little microorganisms are doing all the work.

2nd BTW- I'm a Marine Biology Major. I know more about this than the average person because it's what I go to school for. I know more about ocean impacts than most.
 
Sadly, things get overstated in the past and it becomes ingrained in people's minds that THIS is the way things work. But you are right about the oceans; bless those massive bodies of water.

I know that, but if the particular strain of E. coli didn't adapt properly, then it would cause problems for us as a species. But thankfully evolution made sure it was all right, so I guess this is a moot point, haha.

But I think we can agree Rick Santorum is a dumbass. Those in favor say 'Aye'

'Aye'
 
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