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Gotham city talk

serphina321

serphina321

Star
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
hello people i am a big batman fan. So i thought maby i could find some other batman fans out there and talk you know.lets see so many places to start we can talk about basically anything and outside conversations aren't taboo ether, and it isn't just batman we would discuss the topic ranges in every direction .feel free to talk about his gadgets or maby his partners but my favorite topic with i will probably be on subject a lot about will be his villains i mean they by far as i see it just my opinion are someone of the highest class villains out there like Joker ,Poison ivy , Two Face ,Harley Quinn, the list goes on .so have fun and talk about whatever if this interests you .


my first topic ....Arkhum asylum a very dark place in the history of Gotham.its even got its own game and will most likely star in one of the later coming batman movies. each villain has his own specialized cell. what do you think about it if any one is out there that is .
 
Well, all I'm really familiar with is The Animated Series(seriously, it's my favorite portrayal of all the characters besides Nolan's films, and I know a LOT about it), the movies, the Harley Quinn comic books I use to collect(I have all of them) and a few random ones for other characters that starred the Joker and Harley Quinn. So, my general knowledge is limited as far as games and other villains and the main comic books. Some of my favorite episodes though(besides the Joker and Harley ones <3) was those involving Arnold Wesker the ventriloquist(I found his psychosis and relationship with the dummy, Scarface, absolutely fascinating), Baby Doll(I found her character somewhat mesmerizing with all the anger and the obvious sorrow) and Catwoman in the New Animated Series(very streamlined look and when I was younger, I'd try and play her in pretend games with my friends).

There was this one episode that is my absolute favorite where all the villians take over Arkham and kidnap both Batman and the new District Attorney Janet Van Dorne. They put Batman on trial because of some of the public statements that the DA made declaring Batman responsible for all the super criminals in the city. Through the course of the episode she analyzes each of their cases showing them to have been sick individuals and ends with the statement:

VAN DORN: I used to believe Batman was responsible for you people but now I see nearly everyone here would have ended up exactly the same, Batman or not. Oh, the gimmicks might be different, but you'd all be out there in some form or another brings misery to Gotham. The truth is, you created him.

Very thought provoking episode. :)
 
yes i saw that episode myself .and i have to side with the lady she had a point .without the joker two face and the rest he wouldn't exist at all but then again they only dawned the costumes as batman did... so its hard to say exactly but when batman dies supposedly would the villains hang up there costumes and get better .,,no because for every villain there will always be a batman or who ever decides to step up for justice even if they make more of the villains in the process.

and as fro the ventriloquist i always thought they under classed him and the penguin and of coarse the mad hatter they can be just as dangerous and insane as the other villains and have come in some cases closer to killing batman .like when harley had him hanging upside down from the Parana tank before joker threw her out a window.
 
Yes! I agree! They did seem very under appreciated. Although I have to say, I never really liked the Penguin so those are about the only episodes I don't know a lot about are his. It just seemed kinda...dorky to be a bird themed villain because they didn't play it up well or make him very threatening. :? I also liked how each villain seems to represent something.

Like I always considered Harvey Dent/Two Face as representing the legal system itself because of his background and how it can become sick and merely black and white.

Poison Ivy represented extreme environmentalism and Catwoman represented extreme animal rights activism(well, she did originally; She was mad at some corporation who was going to build a factory or mall or something on a wildlife habitat for the mountain lions).

Clayface represented vanity and drug abuse in Hollywood because he started out as an actor trying to make himself look good with that cream stuff that changed his face.

The Scarecrow represented the psychology profession and how the pursuit for the study and finding answers can overwhelm the real purpose of it-to help better people's lives.

(I'm taking these all from the way they were portrayed in TAS, by the way, just so people don't get confused because I know the stories are different)
 
well you portrays them all pretty well and as for the penguin they ruined him threw tv made him dorky when in the comics he could actually be deadly once tied a man up and who made fun of him as a child beat him the man was called shark had razor teeth penguin glued his teeth together after force feeding him kippers and fish paste :? .anyway as for the scarecrow he is more or less the representation of fear and Harley is more the phcoligst though she ended up to enthralled in her work to realize she was being used and abused.hmm oh and just to mention clay face who is later called to ultamit clay face is recently in the later comics during no mans land killed by poison ivy after he. took over Robinson park and used her to produce fruit to sell threw the city .after batman freed her she beat him to pulp and fed him to her plants after that more clay faces smiler came along it was very interesting.
 
*smacks forehead!* Of course! My bad! Harley was the one who represented psychologists. Thank you for correcting that. Wow, I did not know Penguin could be so brutal and that about Clayface dying sounds interesting.

What about the representation of Arkham in the new films by Nolan? I loved the way they did Scarecrow; he wasn't over the top or anything and played very realistically.
 
lol its cool and yes .they did scarecrow very well .he has a pathological fear of bats you know . that's what happened the first time batman defeated him .he grew up scared so he wanted nothing more than for others to feel just as a afraid as he did. and so the fear gas and the scary mask.
 
Yes, the entire point of the Nolan movies is to make Batman more realistic, and that includes all his villains. So good on that!

I think it's neat how Batman (and by extension, superhero comics in general) can be used to be just as symbolic and meaningful as any other type of fiction. The actual villains were created for various reasons, but they've been interpreted by different writers for different purposes. I like a lot of the symbolism you've decided on for TAS; don't know how accurate it actually is, but it's neat to think about.

Some of my favorite Batman works are the Elseworlds stories, like Batman in different alternate worlds, different time periods, etc. There's a particularly good one where the childless Wayne couple's roadster was overturned once by a crashing spaceship with a baby inside... and young Bruce/Clark repressed his powers until after he'd chosen his path and done his training. Another time, just after Clark decided to become a bat, because criminals were a cowardly and superstitious lot, a spaceship crashed in the backyard of Wayne Manor, and he got a special ring from the dying alien inside... There's dozens of things like that out there. Old West. Swashbuckler. Holy War. Fantasy land. Fighting Jack the Ripper. Etc, etc.

It's just weird, though. In the comics, most of Batman's solo adventures (as in, in his own titles) tend to try to be real-world. They may display powers, but they're written off as realistic, and there are times when Batman wonders about and dismisses things like aliens and ghosts. And yet, and yet, in other titles he works with at least 2 aliens and various mythological personages and goes to meetings in their base on the moon by using a teleporter. And there was the Batman and the Outsiders comic, which started when Batman said to the Justice League, "screw you, and screw this, I can build a super-team from scratch that'll be just as good as this," and proceeded to do so because he's just cool like that.
 
there are many points to those paragraph and i have heard of a few of the other demintion batman lets see but the only one iv seen .was the one were arkum is run by the villains after labotamies .witch sucked and i never went back .but yeah. and your right about the settings sigh but iv only read a few spin offs i have a hard time buying comics any more last shop ducked out a couple years ago so .oh have you read no mans land by chance with the newer bat girl.
 
Ah, see, I wasn't a comic kid myself. I had very few growing up, didn't know anyone else who really had comics. I did watch almost every comic based show that was on when I was kids. From the various Batman series to The Tick, movies, etc.

I do notice the disconnect between the Batman sources and the group stuff, like the Justice League. Batman goes from the Detective to suddenly being this super kung fu guy with even higher tech gadgets and such. I actually remember groaning when I saw Batman go pull out these little "Electric Fist" sort of things in the newer Justice League cartoon. Because Exploding Batarangs aren't enough anymore?

Dunno, for me, I always liked that more noir quality that the animated series had, even above the "Gritty" feeling of the new movies. Batman seemed more of a thinker in those, figuring out clues while still being capable of having those action hero moments. It wasn't often he got into the big brawls and such. You didn't see him just Kung Fu Tank through huge mobs of aliens/monsters/goons like you did in the Justice League shows, for example. Usually it was about outsmarting and outmaneuvering.

It's why I never liked Superman, for example. Or for that matter most of the X-men. They just had a bad guy and went RAMPAGE on them until they were no longer a problem. Very straightforward and simplistic. Hell, I'm reminded of reading this novel about "Superman's Death and Return" or something. What kills the nigh ultimate super hero? Some cunning plan by his arch nemesis? A heroic sacrifice that is made? No... just some random story-less monster who appears for no reason other than to be just as tough as Superman. Kryptonite claws or nothing? No, he just pummels him unto death. Reason? None other than Superman was there. Bleh.

Usually Batman stories have more depth to me. Not just about "Go beat up the bad guys".
 
yes batman is a great detective its just as the tv shows wore on they more or less wanted to entertain the younger masses.so they made him less...smart in some ways witch ruined his appearance for a bit but he never changed in the comics or anything those are the people who know how to show him other than the ones making the newer movies who are doing quite well.and as for super man ..im not even going to talk about him i would rather not get thrown into the pvp section for bashing.but batman has always been about the depth of the human psychosis he himself is often referd to by the psychiatrists at arkum as the uncatchable patient and hes certainly good at avoiding them and getting into whatever he pleases using that brain of his.
 
Chris Sims over at the ISB and ComicsAlliance goes on at length about Batman, particularly the goofy and weird Golden Age and Silver Age adventures. Batman's been portrayed a bewildering number of ways over the years, but he's always had one overriding quality: best-trained human in the world. Whether that's martial arts or detective skills or science/technology, it all comes down from there.

The cartoons were a good way of continuing his story, and I, too, enjoyed the TAS method of having a mystery he figured out, with occasional badass fights. He didn't fight often, but when he did, it was done very well. When they youthened up the series, they took out a lot of the thinky bits, which was still true to the character, technically, but ignored OTHER aspects of the character. I can understand it, but doesn't mean I have to like it.

No Man's Land annoyed me, not because of the story but because it was this giant crossover event to boost sales in all the Bat-titles. It wasn't the least bit realistic (they didn't abandon New Orleans, for example, and Gotham is basically supposed to represent NYC, which is a hell of a lot more important than NO), particularly in a world with superpowers, but I did like the kind of "build your own society" elements they introduced, I thought they had a lot of good stories to tell, and they introduced and altered a variety of characters. I admit, in order to tell those stories, they had to do something big like a No Man's Land or something, but it was forced and it was commercial. I like many of the things they did, I didn't like how they did them.

It's good that DC and Marvel make collections available in bookstores these days, as opposed to comic shops, but it limits what one talks about. I have a collector's impulse, but I've had to be choosy. Like, I could never collect Detective Comics or Batman, because there's no way I'd be able to get all the issues, and that would nag at me. But I don't always think they collect stuff that needs to be collected. It's a business, I understand, but all these crossovers and universe-wide stories, skipping between titles every issue... makes me annoyed. It's bad enough when they just do it within the Batman or Superman titles, but across the whole of the company...

You know, I focus more on the comics, and most of you are talking about the cartoons and movies, which are, in my view, a very small percentage (and a misleading one, given how they have to be adapted and changed for the needs of active visual storytelling) of the total. So I'm not sure how I can best discuss.
 
gteh only reason i mention the movies and cartoons .is because some people havent had the chance to read many of the comic books.i have read quite a few and i enjoy talking of the villains themselves because i know much more about them than the story line itself its the characters im good with .but i try to keep up its just been a while. and i enjoyed no mans land because of the way the villains ran every thing and how it gave them newer aspects to look into i didn't like that it. was just to sell comics but it was an interesting story line letting you see the people in a different view such as riddler and how he started his own business to figure out mysteries and find things for peopel.or how ivy took care of orphans .or two face and several others fighting for territory .then there's batman himself having to let some villains run free against his own judgment to keep the city in one piece .
 
Mr Master said:
Yes, the entire point of the Nolan movies is to make Batman more realistic, and that includes all his villains. So good on that!

I think it's neat how Batman (and by extension, superhero comics in general) can be used to be just as symbolic and meaningful as any other type of fiction. The actual villains were created for various reasons, but they've been interpreted by different writers for different purposes. I like a lot of the symbolism you've decided on for TAS; don't know how accurate it actually is, but it's neat to think about.

Some of my favorite Batman works are the Elseworlds stories, like Batman in different alternate worlds, different time periods, etc. There's a particularly good one where the childless Wayne couple's roadster was overturned once by a crashing spaceship with a baby inside... and young Bruce/Clark repressed his powers until after he'd chosen his path and done his training. Another time, just after Clark decided to become a bat, because criminals were a cowardly and superstitious lot, a spaceship crashed in the backyard of Wayne Manor, and he got a special ring from the dying alien inside... There's dozens of things like that out there. Old West. Swashbuckler. Holy War. Fantasy land. Fighting Jack the Ripper. Etc, etc.

It's just weird, though. In the comics, most of Batman's solo adventures (as in, in his own titles) tend to try to be real-world. They may display powers, but they're written off as realistic, and there are times when Batman wonders about and dismisses things like aliens and ghosts. And yet, and yet, in other titles he works with at least 2 aliens and various mythological personages and goes to meetings in their base on the moon by using a teleporter. And there was the Batman and the Outsiders comic, which started when Batman said to the Justice League, "screw you, and screw this, I can build a super-team from scratch that'll be just as good as this," and proceeded to do so because he's just cool like that.
Click to expand...
Gotham by Gaslight was fantastic.
 
Hero said:
Mr Master said:
Yes, the entire point of the Nolan movies is to make Batman more realistic, and that includes all his villains. So good on that!

I think it's neat how Batman (and by extension, superhero comics in general) can be used to be just as symbolic and meaningful as any other type of fiction. The actual villains were created for various reasons, but they've been interpreted by different writers for different purposes. I like a lot of the symbolism you've decided on for TAS; don't know how accurate it actually is, but it's neat to think about.

Some of my favorite Batman works are the Elseworlds stories, like Batman in different alternate worlds, different time periods, etc. There's a particularly good one where the childless Wayne couple's roadster was overturned once by a crashing spaceship with a baby inside... and young Bruce/Clark repressed his powers until after he'd chosen his path and done his training. Another time, just after Clark decided to become a bat, because criminals were a cowardly and superstitious lot, a spaceship crashed in the backyard of Wayne Manor, and he got a special ring from the dying alien inside... There's dozens of things like that out there. Old West. Swashbuckler. Holy War. Fantasy land. Fighting Jack the Ripper. Etc, etc.

It's just weird, though. In the comics, most of Batman's solo adventures (as in, in his own titles) tend to try to be real-world. They may display powers, but they're written off as realistic, and there are times when Batman wonders about and dismisses things like aliens and ghosts. And yet, and yet, in other titles he works with at least 2 aliens and various mythological personages and goes to meetings in their base on the moon by using a teleporter. And there was the Batman and the Outsiders comic, which started when Batman said to the Justice League, "screw you, and screw this, I can build a super-team from scratch that'll be just as good as this," and proceeded to do so because he's just cool like that.
Click to expand...
Gotham by Gaslight was fantastic.
Click to expand...
Oh, man, it so was.

I would never advocate illegally torrenting or downloading comics, as the creators need to be rewarded for their efforts, but I really couldn't fault someone for taking a look at a preview, if they had an intent to buy...
 
this is all interresting but i would apreciate it if you would put up your own post instead of contnuesly copying others like such todays topic is the rouges gallery .try talking abotu you favorite villain or villain side kick or maby your favorite sceam or team up . my favorite poison ivy and harley quinn those two were meant for each other.buit thats just my oppionon .oh and who here likes the comishoner gordon
 
Did I just get reprimanded for talking Batman in a thread about Batman?
 
I think she was criticizing style rather than substance. Some folks aren't fans of the nested quotes.

I'm not sure if anyone can really dictate topic shifts, particularly when people wander by and chime in at any given point of the day. So that might not, you know, work.

But if you want to talk villains, that's cool. I tend to like the ones that are noble in their way, but given his gallery, I'm not sure who i'd pick. I mean, Joker's just crazy (which makes him fun, but not admirable), Penguin, depending on version, is more corrupt with a certain style than really a theme villain, then there's Scarecrow, Szazz... you know, I think Man-Bat or Ra's Al-Ghul. Those dudes weren't out for evil, but their codes of morality were different enough from the mainstream they came into conflict with the Bat.
 
well as for quotes i have no problems with them its just i find it a little annoying when you just quote someone else and then what you put . like one sentence i would find it more easy to understand if you were to simply mention the person .but i dont really care talk about what you like or whatever its a free topic so long as it stays in the batman ideals.

and as for the whole topic thing i just do that now and then to spark ideas so if you are talking about something else you may continue .


and i find man bat interesting,and i enjoyed your reply.
 
Well, thanks! And bringing up new topics is fine. :) I tend to work more as suggestions, myself.

For example, they've played around a lot with the semi-mythical aspect of Batman's approach. Sometimes they've acted like the common people believe he's a myth, other times they can refer to him in the news. I realize it depends on the needs of the story, but come on, if Batman were real, I'd think street vendors would be selling cheapass Batman balloons, all "hecho en Mexico," and there's be fansites and blogs... pretty much just like the real world, except Batman is real.

So how do you think Batman works best? Should he be a rumor? Or should the press snap pics of him consulting with Gordon?
 
Oooo, very interesting Mr. Master. In my opinion, he works better as a rumor. With all that attention, he'd no doubt be put under a microscope and if we're involving things like the internet; even if in that world where Batman was real, we'd never heard of a superhero before he came along, there are smart people out there who would figure out who he is. And all it takes is the right ear(s) to listen and then it becomes about exposure. If he were just a rumor, he'd be a lot like alien abduction stories, wouldn't he? Something you cannot predict the appearance of, that only a few people have seen and their truth is less than worthy to be believed(i.e. criminals having been pummeled by him) and I am sure there would be conflicting reports of what he looks like until it became mainstream(these "rumors"; like they have literature on the supernatural and aliens) and then they'd all bleed together and become cliche until the originality is lost.
 
im with ivyu on this onehe would be better not real .if her were putin the media he woudl be targeted by his vilains like crazy. to stand on the media he woudl soon losewhimself and be subject to lawsuuits and other things gotham pd has wanted to throw his way over the years. including being thrown into the insane aslyum so . yeah i think its best he is just a rummer that comes to life now and then.
 
Exactly! The media attention would cripple him, making it impossible to inspire fear if the light is shined directly on him. And that is where a lot of his power comes from, dealing with criminals, is their fear of him. A man running around in a Bat costume is something to be laughed at and the more people you have laughing with you, the less you feel you have to lose when coming face to face with this "man".
 
yup but whats odd is . it doesn't seem to affect his vilians as much people know hes there also because of them but never catch him .every one knows who his villains are and that doesn't make them any less scary. because of all they have down so it could go ether way though batman would never kill the person announcing him knock out maby kill..no.
 
Serphy and I were recently discussing the costumes of Harley and Ivy in the new Arkham Asylum game and complaining about the overly slutty nature of their outfits.

harleyandposion.jpg


It was pointed out by serphy that the revamp on their outfits took away from the fear they might inspire, instead turning them both into whorish bimbos displaying skin for the sake of showing skin. And I totally agree. They just become another woman flashing her tits, when Ivy and Harley are about much more than that. The subtleties of seduction have very little to do with how much skin you show, and these women's appeal comes from the erotic and enticing fear they inspire. Like a black widow; so beautiful and sexy and desirable, but so dangerous. Their original outfits were skin tight and sexy enough.
 
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