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Immigration laws

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Tathariel

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Jan 31, 2009
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__oyk[/youtube]

The idiots in this video are really pissing me off. I try to reason why Arizona's law should not be passed, but everytime I see things like this I can't help but wonder how far stupid people will go. Half the people shouting and arguing have to do it with masks on, meaning their too coward to show their open faces. In my option, this makes what they have to say irrelevant in my mind. They are DELIBERATELY trying to provoke something into happening!?!?!?! WTF??? You should openly and truthfully reveal who you are, before you try preach to others what you think is right.

I'M ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED AND APPALLED TO THINK THAT THEY THINK THEY ARE ACTUALLY HELPING WITH THEIR IDIOTIC AND IGNORANT ACTIONS.

I'm all for open immigration. This country thrived on immigrants doing its starting days, and still attracts millions of people to our borders.

HOWEVER, I am opposed to illegal immigrants bringing foreign gangs, drugs, and generally destabilizing our society.

I'm honestly stuck on the fence on this one.

On one hand, I could see how stricter immigration laws can help, and I believe that supporting stricter immigration laws could potentially help lower crime in the United States. Gangs that originate in central american countrys spread north to us. Ever hear of a gang called MS13, originated in El Salvador. Here's what they did recently. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/29/191">http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/29/191</a><!-- m --> ... lings.html

All I have to say is.....FUCKING DEATH PENALTY TO ALL THESE FUCKERS AND ANYONE LIKE THEM.

*cough* forgive me....I get a little heated up when I think of young adults having a good time, then being raped and executed for an aspiring criminals gang initiation. MS13 gang members pride themselves on doing things like this, and encourage all those who join their gang to do this BEFORE joining, to show that their serious about part of MS13. I realize that not all immigrants are going to be gang members, not even mentioning our home grown gangs.

I'm not saying that its only these gangs, all gangs cause huge problems in the states for the communities that suffer them.
However, some illegal immigrants are coming to the states because their avoiding prison time in their country's for crimes they already committed.

I still can't help but think "is this law going a little far"
Passing a law that lets a policeman stop anyone who could "possibly" (what the fuck does that mean) be an illegal immigrant?

Where do you draw the line?
It might be wrong but I think it should pass......
For those who oppose....if your a citizen then how should it affect you? You have nothing to worry about, all you need to do is show a state I.D!!! In WA if you are over 13 years of age, your suppoust to carry it with you at all times.
 
So I'm for this law now.

The act makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an alien to be in Arizona without carrying registration documents required by federal law,[20] and obligates police to make an attempt, when practicable, to determine a person's immigration status if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien,[21] during a police stop for some other offense.[22] Police may arrest a person if there is probable cause that the person is an unlawful alien;[20] a person arrested cannot be released without confirmation of the person's legal immigration status by the federal government pursuant to § 1373(c) of Title 8 of the United States Code. A first offense carries a fine of up to $100, plus court costs, and up to 20 days in jail; subsequent offenses can result in up to 30 days in jail.[23] A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance.[21] SB 1070 also prohibits state, county, or local officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and provides that Arizona citizens can sue such agencies or officials to compel such full enforcement.[21][8]
In addition, the law makes it a crime for anyone, regardless of citizenship or immigration-status, to hire or to be hired from a vehicle which "blocks or impedes the normal movement of traffic." Vehicles used in such manner are subject to mandatory impounding. Moreover, "encourag[ing] or induc[ing]" illegal immigration, giving shelter to illegal immigrants, and transporting or attempting to transport an illegal alien, either knowingly or while "recklessly" disregarding the individual's immigration-status,[24] will be considered a class 1 criminal misdemeanor if fewer than ten illegal immigrants are involved, and a class 6 felony if ten or more are involved. The offender will be subject to a fine of at least $1,000 for each illegal alien so transported or sheltered.[24]

*gasp* "A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance."

How is that so hard?
 
Thank you, Illegal Immigrants, for the lulz.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctrLrhrXB1M[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbBWmLMVR_o[/youtube]
 
I'm not sure if this is a national or state law, I would assume national, but I know at least that in New Jersey you have to have some form of government identification on you if you're eighteen or over in public. A cop can come up to my white ass at a gas station if s/he wants and ask to see ID even if I've done nothing wrong. Granted this doesn't happen without reason, but it's been a law for as long as I remember.

I understand some hesitance over Big Brother and racial profiling/stereotyping, but I've got to say I'm yet to be convinced (in this case) it's as big of a deal as those on the defensive make it out to be. If you want to take it a step further and talk about how this could lead to harassment of a certain group of people, alright, but it's important to recognize that in that case it would be because of this way of handling the issue rather than the issue being handled itself, which it's remarkable to me that so many people take offense at. If anyone can think of a better way to tackle the growing issue I think we're all ears.

These people are here illegally. They're breaking the law. They are totally, one hundred percent welcome in our country, but for fuck's sake just follow the rules. ...which leads me to admit that I honestly don't know what it takes nowadays to immigrate here legally, having the good fortune of being born on American soil. I know that originally it consisted of sailing to Ellis Island on a boat, where you were either allowed in after getting a clean bill of health from a doctor, or made to wait in the island's hospital until you recovered from whatever it was you had. That was it. Nowadays there's far more to it, I'm sure, and I'm curious as to what, but I severely doubt there could be so much as to justify the constant border jumping that goes on.

It may be an offensive juxtaposition, the suggestion of carding these people, and I'm not saying I'm for it, but I understand the thought behind it. Illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be reigned in. Amnesty is not about to happen. So how do we tackle this subject?
 
It would be Arizonas state law.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36998749/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36998749/ns ... nd_courts/</a><!-- m -->

The funny thing is, is that everyone just knows about it now.
As for handling the problem of illegal immigrants, this is the first time a states gone so far to try to get a handle in it.
 
I only see illegals angry over this law... or people who support the illegals.

I'm excited to see AZ stepping up to the plate and take responsibility of being a border state. It's long over due and I'm glad to see that SOMETHING is being done.

In order to become a citizen, I know there is testing on American history and I think you have to speak a modicum of English. So I think part of the criteria is being able to read and speak English as a start.
I could be wrong, but I think there is some level of truth behind this.+
 
dramamine213 said:
I only see illegals angry over this law... or people who support the illegals.
Click to expand...

I second that. They dislike the law because it means more illegal immigrants will be deported back to there country of origin. They deserve to go to, they are more loyal to there former countries than america. They don't respect anything here and bring crime and drugs with them.
 
Curbstomp said:
They don't respect anything here and bring crime and drugs with them.
Click to expand...
Careful, that's the kind of generalization that can take intelligent discussion a step backward, rather than a step forward.

Dramamine, I believe you're right. I don't remember exactly what's involved but some of it comes to mind, an understanding of basic English and America's history among it. I stress basic though; I believe it's simply learning the name of a few select presidents, the fifty states, nothing really beyond fifth grade social studies. From what I understand there are classes that can teach this specifically for people wanting to become legal, as well as the basic English. And there is a considerable amount of time given to pass this, to become legalized, before someone's temporary pass is revoked. I won't act like I know the finer points of the process, and until then I have to wonder whether or not there's some major thing I'm unaware of that would inspire people to come over illegally rather than go through it, but until that revelation I find it challenging to be sympathetic.

One of the most absurd things I've seen in this whole 'debate' is the exaggerating claims some people have made toward the law. Specifically, I saw a bunch of protestors on the news talking about how if they want to go visit their relatives in Arizona now they have to have a passport else they'll be deported. Um, no. You'd have to have government-issued identification, like a driver's license or a non-driver ID, something which was already in effect beforehand, and as far as I know is nationwide. A passport is an acceptable form of identification, as is a military ID, or any other government-issued photo ID, but those two harder-to-acquire are only among the options, not the options exclusively. People sure do love to dramatize the extreme rather than address the meat and potatoes of the issue - that being, I think we can all agree, on both sides of the debate, that the state has no interest in the degree this has all blown up to. They simply have a big problem that keeps growing bigger, that the larger government keeps putting off addressing, and that they've no choice but to somehow deal with it. I'm sure Arizona is open to suggestions, if there is a better way of going about it all.

Even more absurd is the economical sabotage California and Arizona are threatening to one another. California is in the wrong here, though by firing back Arizona's hands aren't much cleaner. AZ's forced into a corner, I can't say I blame them, but still. This whole thing is a messy situation that needs someone with more authority, such as Washington, to make a decision, and soon.
 
dramamine213 said:
I only see illegals angry over this law... or people who support the illegals.

I'm excited to see AZ stepping up to the plate and take responsibility of being a border state. It's long over due and I'm glad to see that SOMETHING is being done.

In order to become a citizen, I know there is testing on American history and I think you have to speak a modicum of English. So I think part of the criteria is being able to read and speak English as a start.
I could be wrong, but I think there is some level of truth behind this.+
Click to expand...

If I recall Miss Dramamine, there is also a yearly quota. Only so many immigrant requests of various classifications are allowed entry per year. This does include categories such as marriage, family, refugee status, and other such categories.

I think a large part of the problem is in fact those quotas. You have people that really want to be here. But because of quotas legally they have to wait a decade, or more. If someone wants to come in, get their piece of Americana and make an honest buck, go for it. A bit "foolishly" idealistic of me but I do believe in that American way. That anyone can come here, and through hard work (Not connections, not luck, not birthright), can make a success. If they want to do that, why not let them?

But quotas. you start turning people away. They go back to their shitty life they want to leave, or at least get money from America shipped back home to raise their standard of life, and can't get in. So they look to illegally crossing, human trafficking, and such. That need spawns a criminal industry. Criminals aren't exactly moral citizens and hell, long as they're crossing with whoever has the cash to buy passage why not carry a ton of cocaine as well?

Get more Legal immigrants, cut down on the need for human trafficking, smuggling, and the problems it leads to. Least, can't hurt really. Then crack down, hard, on those you catch because they obviously are coming in because they couldn't meet standards (Such as background checks).

... Also as racist as it makes me sound I do wish they would make it so legal immigrants have to learn english before coming here. They don't, I know several legal immigrants who don't speak a lick of english. Part of it is the fault of congress, been a bill on the table to make english the official language since about 1978, despite overwhelming support no one passes it for fear of being labeled as a racist and losing reelection. But it's not a racist thing. It's a society thing. We are mostly english speakers here. Our infrastructure is based on english. By not learning it they can't really operate within our society as a whole, and force the government to burn extra money training staff to be bilingual (And in some areas I've been, quadlingual... which I swear doesn't sound like a word but it's what they listed in their requirements).
 
And with them not having to learn English, they make little groups of people that segregate away from American society and treat their little slice of the states more like their home... which they left.

To me, it's basically coming here to remake your old home with better sources/economy. Not a huge problem, per say, but when you go to a less desirable part of your town and you can't buy anything without speaking Spanish or Tagalog, it pisses me off.
 
Are there that many Phillipenos where you live? I;ve never known any that couldnt speak english. In the states at least.
 
That is how things were set back in early years of America anyways. People of the same culture would make their own little communities that were just like back home... in fact I think places in New York are still very similar to that type of segregation.
 
Tathariel said:
Are there that many Filipinos where you live? I've never known any that couldn't speak English. In the states at least.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a sizable community. An English Lit. teacher (of 15 years!!) of mine in high school could barely speak the English language on a high school level. The only student who passed her class was a gal who spoke Tagalog. Consider me enraged for having to take summer school because I couldn't UNDERSTAND my teacher. Lots of gas stations and eateries you have a hard to impossible time trying to go to and buy something. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would just like it if they could learn a 5 year old's grasp of English. I don't expect college level essays or such, but "That's $5.67." would be nice to hear.

And there's a bigger Hispanic community than the Filipinos. While it doesn't make up a majority of where I live, it certainly makes me avoid certain areas that I used to be able to visit.
 
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