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reconciling sexual fetishes and religious belief.

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DarkenedKnight

Star
Joined
May 23, 2010
Introduction:

I know that this sounds like a loaded question, but I really don't mean it that way.
My curiosity stems mainly from the fact that I was raised with no religious belief whatsoever, so I have no frame of reference for that way of viewing sex.
All I know of it is that the more conservative groups consider a wide variety of sex acts to be immoral, most notably: transsexuality, homosexuality, incest, anal and oral sex, etcetera.

The question.
I'm going to phrase this in as neutral a way as I can. I welcome any constructive criticism about how I might refine my question and/or make it more open ended.

Given the nature of the religious right, if you are a member of such a belief system, how do you deal with and reconcile your activities on this site, no matter how "vanilla" they may be?

I would like to stress that I do not aim to attack, place blame or otherwise direct negativity toward anyone who is religious. I am merely curious.
 
My Personal Belief's are simple. Most religons ive observed over the years preach a mandate or belief of No violence, or harm. among other things.

Thou I believe that Your sexual life fits into this even if kinky or none. Bdsm is based on consent, needs, nature, nurture and dozens other factors that change from partner to partner. relationship to relationship. But from all i seen personally. There is a level of relationship and consent always there.

I Only feel Sex or Bdsm in general falls out this veiw when done by

1. force aka True rape. Not a play scene, power play of some kind or even power given some etc. I mean true rape.

2.Or done in way that's actually Horrible for the person . Someone living a very shallow sex filled life without thoughts the actions and consquence's to themselves and others. Or someone not dealing with a issue their past/present needs dealt with and seeking just ignore/continue or cover it up threw a act sex or bdsm.< a child who was abused who goes to find a Top to abuse her constantly cause she dont know how other relationships work.>

Not saying that they still cant have a healthy bdsm relationship with people but without it first being a self examination, there is more abuse then growth or pleasure/a need filled. or a shallow sex filled life just abusing one's self with

i Apologize if this comment bothered or offended anyone.

Sly
 
Mr Master said:
I'm not quite sure how many respondents you're likely to have in the first place. I suspect our demographic doesn't have too many of the constituents you intend to question.
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Maybe....but I think that they may just be staying quiet....
(Why is there no OBJECTION! emoticon?)
If you look carefully at this evidence, you'll see that I have good reason for thinking that there may be many conservatively inclined folk on here.

deseretnews.com/article/705288350/Utah-No-1-in-online-porn-subscriptions-report-says.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/160566/utah_online_porn_capital_of_america.html

There have to be some Mormons in Utah.....

@sly.
Thanks for your response!
I agree completely with you, however, my question is not intended to deal with the 'morality' of such kinks per se. The only aspect of morality that I'm interested in is the sexual morality that conservatives seem to try to live.

Your reply does bring up some rather interesting issues of their own, ones that I think would warrant a new thread.
 
For a second I thought you were going to cite something on the site, but I knew at first sight that your cite site wasn't in sight of this site. And there's PLENTY of other sects besides Mormonism in the world. I'm just saying, I'd be surprised if we had much of any ultraconservative religious people trolling around the OOC forums.

But if you can find any, good on you.
 
The way I see it, internet came along after most of the major religions of today, so maybe that places it in a gray-area.

Of course, there are some thought-restrictions in some religions, and this site definitely deals in the realm of the mind, so perhaps that'd be a gate way for religious judgement. I myself think the mind should be free, but my religion, from what I've heard, puts some restrictions on that as well. So I guess it's like this with me; some temptations I can resist and some I can't. And I always try to be better.
 
One way to answer is to differentiate religion from church, and to remember the Goat on the Sabbath.

Everything I'm about to say is my own admittedly generalized opinion, one that may well offend, but that is not my intent, and I avidly welcome any criticism thereof or any correction of facts I have misrepresented or misinterpreted, when I say that I do not believe it was ever god or Christ's will to smother our lives with the rules the church invents.

Christianity vs. Christ​
As an agnostic (believing in a higher power without defining it in terms of a specific church's view), my favorite quote remains: "I have nothing against god, my only issue is with his fan-club." Christ is in my mind a fascinating figure, one who dedicated his life to saying that doing good, being caring and human to each other, was more important than a blind adherence to static rules. The Goat on the Sabbath parable.

It amazes me then that many (but not all) of the dominant sects of Christianity didn't seem to get the memo, calling it the word of god and of their church's namesake Christ, that we should all live our lives by a strict set of rules, and go further to make sure everyone else does to, whether they want to or not. Because god created us with free will so we could kill each other in his name for daring to be free - really? I'm getting off topic here - returning to the point of the static rules of the church vs. religion, in few places is the distinction clearer than in sex, even down to the most basic level of orientation. *Warning: Pandoric Can of Worms about to be Opened* The churches view on homosexuality is one of my favorite examples. I'm not trying to derail the whole convo here, I am just using this as a useful example to explain.

Leviticus​
The book of the Bible where god's apparent hatred of homosexuality comes from is in Leviticus, 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." and 20:13 which repeats this and adds a death penalty. Other than the fact there are so many ways to interpret this line (such as that one should not treat homosexual and hetrosexual encounters as completely identical in every single way), Leviticus is in the Old Testament - that tome of static rules Christ was explicitly arguing against a blind adherence too. But even ignoring Christ in Christianity, Leviticus also contains commands to burn anything as ritually unclean that a woman touches while on her period, to never cut your hair and to not eat 'unclean' food like shellfish, pigs, or anything else that, at the time of writing, may have been a health hazard for people to prepare and eat. Strange how these rules have not endured in most mainstream Christianity, yet a blind adherence to homophobia has.

The Point​
The point of this longwinded rant is to present my own belief - that the restrictions modern churches place on our lives, especially in terms of sexuality, are authored by churches, not by religion and not by god. As an imperfect being trying to understand the mind of a perfect being, I am not arrogant enough to assume a perfect understanding - but I do believe that god and Christ's message was to be good to each other, respectful and kind to each other regardless of who we are. As such, being respectful of other people on this site, especially of our differences, and not being intently degrading, destructive or harmful against a person or character that unequivocally does not want it, would be well within the morals of my view of religion. But then in fantasy, doing something completely against what a person or character wants is a difficult feat to achieve.

As an enthusiast of taboos like tentacles, I will admit there are taboos that seem to stray outside that area. But then as I said in another longwinded reply here: http://bluemoonroleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=20565&pid=678482#pid678482, I beleive even tentacles are not based on true sadistic destructive rape, but on consensual non-consent, which I believe remains on the grey fringes but still well within the realm of being good to one another, enjoying causing pleasure and an inner freedom, at most in a sub/dom overpowering, not in actually enjoying sadistic bloody destruction.

And Even the Darkest Fantasies are More Moral Here, than in the Real World​
My own personal understanding of Christ's message can even be stretched to allow for an acceptance of the darkest non-consensual fantasies and socially deviant taboos. I believe in the lesser of two evils, and that exploring those less than light areas of your personality and sexuality, here, in a fictional setting with fictional characters without the risk of harming anyone in the real world, is infinitely less evil than the alternative - than in giving every dark part of yourself an ever growing strength through repression, at best permanently denying an understand of all that makes you you, and at worst eventually being unable to resist experimenting in the real world, where people get hurt. Returning to Christ and the sabbath-goat, I believe the lesser of two evils is always better than an adherence to static restrictions so blind and impractical that it inevitable lead to the greater evil anyway. We live in the real world - Christ got that, Christianity didn't. Who would you rather believe?
 
Not really having a "belief system" makes it so, in a sense, I can do whatever I want in a sexual basis. But, because of the relationships I'm in and the people I adore, somethings I will resist and others I don't even think about. It's mostly a manner of perspective and how you handle things that are in your life such as your religious or personal beliefs that depict what you will or won't do sexually.
 
Haha. Oh boy. Here's an interesting one.

Well, lemme be the first to come out and say this: I'm a Christian. And I'm also a regular here on BMR.

How do you reconcile it? You really don't. You simply except that you're going to do some things in this life that are frowned upon by your religion, and hope that at some point, you'll find a way to make it legit. Some people feel really guilty. Some just pray for forgiveness for their "sins". I just take it with a grain of salt and know that I am still growing. Maybe I'll always be a bit of a deviant. But considering I'm not murdering or anything of that nature, I believe that ultimately I will be forgiven for my shortcomings.
 
I do not believe in a higher power, an afterlife or any of that silly stuff. Therefore any moral issues I have with specific sexual kinks or sexuality are simply socially constructed opinions and therefore should be disregarded. Same goes for all you haters.

Sex is sex.
 
I'm actually a very religious Christian and while I have been told that certain perversions are considered "wrong" by the Catholic church most of the biggest issues come from adultery and rape. By rape I mean actual rape, not role play rape. Basically "anything that hurts other people is wrong" and even if I weren't a Christian I'd agree with that. I think most people agree with that regardless of religion or lack there of. I have no problem with people writing down fantasies though, better that they write about it than go out and do it. I can't speak for all Christians but I've never felt like I've compromised anything by joining this site.

Besides...

GOD LOVES PERVERTS TOO!!! I think he's more understanding than some people say.

Although I would not RP anything with rape, that's a personal issue for me and it makes me very uncomfortable.
 
While internet memes aren't generally conductive to constructive discourse, I feel this one sums things up perfectly:

hate-eagle.jpg



I have a good right-wing religious friend that has claimed in the past that I 'have no morals.' Morals are a personal thing; you can suggest them, even have a socially agreed upon set, but not actually dictate them for others. I've explained to him that I actually do have morals, and a great deal of them - they are just different from his.
 
I guess the only problem I have with the question, is that it suggests that if one doesn't have a religion, that they could lack a moral basis. This I feel is untrue, but I doubt that was anyone's intent.

With the question, I will say that I am "a philosophical agnostic" as far as my religion goes. I was raised in a conservative christain household, and I had to deal with the utter homophobia and sexism my father spouted out day-in and day-out for a very long time. I have read over quite a bit of the bible and found out that a lot of the most detestable "christians" simply pick and choose what part of the bible they wish to believe in. If they want to be a prick, they'll quote Leviticus. If they want to be seen as rational, they'll get something from the new testament. I only bring this up because this was my moral starting point, and I can honestly say that I am a better person for ignoring and not believing that particular brand of hatred/stupidity.

As far as reconciling sexual fantasies goes...what needs to be done? It's a fantasy! If your god punishes you for having your definition of a hot day dream, that's kinda sad. Maybe he. she. it, shouldn't have given you gonads. If you have any kind of sexual activity irl that is consensual, and all participants are of age, then again, what do you need to apologize for or reconcile with? Nobody was hurt, and there are no rules about sex (other than being faithful to your spouse) in the ten commandments, so, well..yeah.. /rant
 
Cosmic said:
I guess the only problem I have with the question, is that it suggests that if one doesn't have a religion, that they could lack a moral basis.
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Assuming you're referring to the original poster of this thread, I don't see that anywhere in his query. He's curious how someone who actively believes in a faith which simultaneously may look down on the type of things many of the open-minded people on a site like this enjoy, how they find their personal middle ground amidst it.

I'm an agnostic that grew up under a heavily Christian roof as well, with numerous members of my father's side of the family having various positions of involvement with the local church. So, things could get a bit...interesting at times. You're right on the money with how an oft Christian tactic is to quote whatever passage supports their personal brand of bigotry, cherry-picking one 'point' while refusing to acknowledge a counterpoint of any sort.

Being a person who grew up in that type of background, though I am not anything of it now, or simply fancying myself an observant person in general, a solid conclusion I feel is that this particular group of people are scared. Simply, they do not understand, and denouncing/defending is an instinct for many rather than seeking to understand something. That particular religion is one founded on atonement, on the feeling that you owe some great apology that you must make with God often; on that you are a sinner, that you've been a sinner since birth, and if you don't do this, or if you do do that, you won't be permitted into Heaven.

Many get into that defensive mindset and only understand the approach of either lashing out against or simply ending the conversation when it turns toward anything of a more erotic nature, specifically, but not limited to, the more questionable things DarkenedKnight posed. Though, to be fair, for every staunch resistor to such things even being discussable, there is another who praises Jesus, who believes in the church and its teachings, and has a curiosity toward these things, if not an interest.

So how does one balance it? That's a good question. All of this text, and at the end of it, I don't really know. The best I can come up with is a willingness to ignore some of the more arrogant aspects of their specific faith while not wanting to cut ties with their security blanket.

Maybe some don't want to question it, as it's simpler to follow than to lead. Maybe, for some, their change toward a more liberal mindset is a slow boil, rather than an open flame. Or maybe there is some actual middle ground, where one can be part of a religion or group that looks down on these things, yet still enjoy the taboo of fantasizing about them? Lord knows I write many things here that I'd never take part in realistically.
 
This is an interesting subject, if only because most of the people I know who would consider themselves religious wouldn't do "extremely" kinky things (see: bdsm), and most of the people who I know are into the BDSM lifestyle subscribe to a very free, individualized faith or no faith at all.

However, in reference to how someone extremely religious (and, when I say that, I am thinking more in terms of America's "religious right" movement) can allow their kinky side and still feel okay about; I urge you to look up Christian Domestic Discipline. It's the same shit I do in my sex life but under the pretense of God.

But, to answer your question (because I kind of went off on a thought there), in my personal life, I've found that most people involved in kinky-like-things are also the type of people to have a more personal (as opposed to church-oriented) relationship with God? Which makes it easier to not feel persecuted for your own sexual preferences? If anything of what I just said made sense . . .
 
That does make sense, janglin. I know it's applicable in my case, that because I've been more free to discover my own beliefs rather than have them dictated to me, that is one of the things that I am more comfortable with. And, for those handed a specific mold to try to fit into, certain aspects of their own thoughts, sexual or non, may not fit so seamlessly.
 
Well, since I don't believe in "God", I wouldn't put "God" in as a reference point. I dictate what I want to explore sexually and decide how I want to go about it. I don't worry about judgment or anything of the sort from some supposed higher power. Since the usual phrase is "The point of living is to live" then why worry about what "could" happen when you die? I'm not against people who have religion at the forefront of their lives, but it's not my cup of tea or what dictates what I find agreeable in my sex life.

I probably repeated myself a little bit with that, but it's also 4am.
 
I was raised in a very strict Catholic upbringing and sent to the strictest private schools but when it comes to sex - everything gets topsy-turvy. I think it was because religious thought, whether Christianity, Buddhism or anything else, served as a brake. A brake to control human behavior, however with the fundamentalism in almost any religion nowadays - the brake has become like total lockdown. You "brake" to control something moving, you do do not "brake" to prevent something from starting.

How do you reconcile it? You modify your beliefs. You change your concepts of what is sinful and what is not. What is acceptable and what is not. It's just in my mind i.e. not sinful even if religious teachings say otherwise. I'm not hurting anyone, etc. And you hide it. Thus the number of instances wherein politicians and religious leaders were practically caught with their dicks in their hands.

Honestly, it's harder to reconcile family and sexual fetish than religious beliefs and sexual fetish. The former is real, the latter is metaphysical.

BTW, here is link to how marriage is depicted in the Old Testament. I think the Old Laws were for then, Christ only gave two commandments (Love God over everything and love others as you love yourself):heart::

4BWCh.jpg
 
I was a member of a BDSM site a few years back and there was a somewhat large conservative contingent there. I was amazed to find out a lot of them were also Christian, they used the bible verse (I had to look this up) in I Corinthians about the "... Man being the head of the woman . . ." to justify their BDSM proclivities. It did not make sense to me, but I feel that a lot of so-called Christian conservatives cherry pick to justify their positions.

Cosmic, I agree with you as well, I have had Christian conservatives ask me "How do you have a moral compass without the church?" That always makes me livid. There has been morals since the beginning of time. Moral beliefs were not an invention of Christianity.
 
On the subject of the moral compass issue. I have noticed that a lot of my fellow "Christians" seem to have very flexible morals. They have no problem ignoring the details that may interfere with their fun or finding convenient loopholes but they are so quick to be arrogant, harsh and judgmental of other people, they forget about humility and tolerance and above all love for their fellow man. Religion or lack thereof is not an indication one way or another to a person's moral compass.

It makes me a little sad sometimes to see that on many sites I go to there is so much animosity towards the religion itself because of these corrupt people. But nothing makes me angrier than seeing a self righteous bastard in a suit with a microphone on TV telling people that they are damned and claiming he's a "Good Christian".
 
The whole idea of 'finding loopholes' is a good part of the underlying problem. If you don't think something is wrong, you shouldn't even need a loophole. Using a loophole for justification, to me, feels like stealing from the candy store when no one is looking, then saying it doesn't count.

Semantics, perhaps, but sometimes the fine print makes all the difference.

Personally, my god wants me to have a good time. He's a pretty cool dude like that. We tight.
 
As_Day_Fades said:
The whole idea of 'finding loopholes' is a good part of the underlying problem. If you don't think something is wrong, you shouldn't even need a loophole. Using a loophole for justification, to me, feels like stealing from the candy store when no one is looking, then saying it doesn't count.
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I wish more people realized this, I stopped going to church because the people there kept saying something was wrong when other people did it but when they did something similar they always found some kind of technicality that let them get away with it.

"Oh it's ok for us to be judgmental, we're in God's favor." -__- are you shitting me? What good is having rules if your going to find a way around them?
 
Over due bump. I am finally in a head space to respond to this topic and will edit this post once I have some time.
I must say that I am intrigued by the responses I have seen.
 
I was going to have a long, drawn-out response to this thread, but a lot of people have already said what I was going to say, so I'll just leave a boiled down version for you.

As a protestant Christian (raised as Catholic), a part of me feels very guilty for wanting/indulging in the thoughts & RP's that I engage in. Another part of me wants to defend against that guild with a "it isn't my fault." type of response given a...difficult childhood.

With that said, and without getting into too much evangelical school of thought, I'm incapable of being sin-free and thus rely on the metaphysical/supernatural mechanism of forgiveness offered by God rather than relying on the purity of my own actions.

There's more to it than that, but I just don't have the time to write it all down right now. Anybody who wants more info on where I'm coming from is free to PM me.
 
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