AI and Our Written World

[Ryees]

If you are not going to be a productive part of the discussion, please do not comment. If this thread turns even remotely hostile, I will be deleting it immediately.

I went back and forth on whether I wanted to post this thread or not because I imagine it could spark vitriol, but let's all be adults and have a productive conversation, mm?

The world of AI has begun its march towards us, and at this point, if you are trying to deny that, you're very much going to look like the people who denied the internet or denied smartphones. It will become a part of our daily lives, if it hasn't already for some of us. So that then begs the question: How do we, as writers, live in this world?

What would you do if you found out your partner was using an AI client to help, or wholly, write their posts? What if they only use it to proofread? If a partner was using AI to write, do you think you could clock it like some people can clock AI artwork? Would this bother you? Do you not care?

Some folks are great at formulating ideas and constructing scenes in their head, but they lack the vocabulary and vernacular to properly describe the scenes in their imagination. Some people are non-English native, and on our near-exclusively English board, they will naturally have a harder time putting the full extent of their thoughts into words. In this context, AI could be considered an accessibility tool. Do you agree? Is it okay to use in this context? Why or why not?

I am specifically not wanting to discuss AI artwork and the ethics surrounding that in this thread; I want to only focus on words, and the use of AI in the writing space.

 

[Lord DreamCrusher]

While nobody can definitively state that they could catch any and all examples of AI writing, or assisted writing, I have recently experienced this with a group of friends roleplaying together. When one began to use AI to help write descriptions of places I could instantly clock it and it was off-putting to me. Don't get me wrong, I understand the angle of accessibility to some extent and there's no simple answer that can fit all circumstances but currently many AI services have very distinct patterns that can be recognized with some experience. In the future I imagine this will change as the tools get better, or perhaps some paid version are already there, but for the time being in my experience AI understands the ebb and flow of a sentence only as much as a math equation. It can shift the words around but the general length, flow, cadence, what have you will remain the same. You end up with a lot less variety in the writing. I've played around with some AI roleplaying sites just for fun, writing back and forth with AI, and thus I attribute this to the reason why I can notice some of these patterns in the wild. Or at least, in my recent experience anyway.

Personally I'm against it on principle. Using AI to write, or help in writing, feels to me that it cheapens the experience to a degree. Now I will say that using AI for ideas or inspiration can work, be a sort of gray area, but I want writing partners that actually take whatever inspiration they have and translate it into their own words; and I'm not just talking about tweaking a few bits here and there. I know from my own experience that my writing quality has improved greatly over the years I've roleplayed online. There was no magic formula to success, just experience and practice. As I pushed myself to improve and was exposed to different people with different writings styles I was able to better build up a style of my own. While I encourage people to work on their writings skills without taking such shortcuts, really though it comes down to the element of connection in the writing that concerns me the most.

I want to write with other people for both our sakes; my enjoyment and their own. AI feels like a cop out to an extent, a lazy effort to placate expectations, and while I know plenty of people don't intend to use it for that purpose that doesn't truly change my feelings on the matter. I want to write characters, scenes, and situations that excite and please my partners. I want to get that wonderful feedback when a moment is truly electric and savor the pride that comes from making that happen. What I don't want is to put forward that effort on my part only to get someone on the other end typing in a basic prompt and hitting enter on an AI model to spit out a response that they had very little to actually do with. I wouldn't take any pride in hearing from someone that a post I made was amazing only to know I didn't write it and I'd like my partners to be of similar mind in that regard.

Now, as for the use on the site specifically, I think it's one of those things that really should come with a warning label. Be upfront, tell people you use AI to assist with your writing. I'm sure some people will be totally fine with that while others, like myself, really don't want to experience that. Ultimately I think it's a point enough for contention that giving potential writing partners that heads up out of respect for their preferences is a moral thing to do.

 

[Ryees]

Personally I'm against it on principle. Using AI to write, or help in writing, feels to me that it cheapens the experience to a degree.

This is my personal feeling on it. For me, the actual act of constructing sentences, choosing words, and putting it all together is the thing that keeps my interest and makes me love the hobby. But for those who don't enjoy those things, they frequently only care about the end result, not the journey, so AI letting them "skip to the good part" could seem very appealing.

Now, as for the use on the site specifically, I think it's one of those things that really should come with a warning label. Be upfront, tell people you use AI to assist with your writing.

I think that probably this would never happen, for a myriad of reasons, but I also agree with the sentiment.

 

[Carpe Diem]

i think DreamCrusher is right about there being no way to definitively knowing whether someone is using AI or not. sure, there's AI Checkers and whatever on the internet, but they're just bullshit as far as i'm aware. something something someone put the Declaration of Independence in one of those checkers and it came out 99% ai-written, so yeah, no way to tell. i think it mostly comes down to a sort of 'vibe check' for me. i might suspect someone is using AI to write or proofread their writing if the writing itself comes off as stiff and 'artificial' in a way that i can only explain as a hunch. it'd be unfair to the person i'm rping with, but chances are that if i feel that way about their writing, it wouldn't really matter whether it's AI or their true to life way of writing anyway.

now, i've seen the argument for using AI to proofread when you're a non-native English speaker/writer. English is my second language, but i learnt it at a really young age, so i did have that advantage. if i'd been born later and was learning English around this time, now that AI is so predominant, i might've been tempted to use it. honestly, given how lazy i am, i probably would have at least tried it. but it is a shortcut and a crutch. and when learning, shortcuts and crutches are, as respectfully as i can put it, kind of just cheap ways to get to a certain place. a lot of people won't learn from it. they'll depend on it.

learning is a painful and strenuous process and it should be. i remember my early days of rping. i cringe at the kind of stuff i wrote. i go back to it and cringe some more, but then i also remember how much fun i had back then. it's as painful as it is rewarding to grow on your own in a creative hobby. you find your own voice, you find yourself, and it hurts and it's great at the same time.

i know some people also use it because they are insecure about their own writing, and i would encourage people to embrace that insecurity rather than trying to push it away by using AI to help them write. i felt insecure every time i wrote when first starting out in group rps. i'd get ignored, and i would feel like shit. but then i would push forward with it. i remember when first starting out, i got kicked out from a dbz group rp because my writing was not up to par with the owner's requirements. i got so mad, but that anger inspired me to get better at writing. they probably forgot me the next day after kicking me out, but i've kept that spite to always be better as a motivator.

it's worth to learn how to write on your own, without the help of AI.

so i guess to me, personally, AI is just never okay to use in a creative context. if i learnt that my partner had used AI at any point in the writing process, i'd have to respectfully bow out. i'd just never be sure that they wouldn't use it in any other parts of the process, or use it to completely write a post.

but you know, people are free to do as they like. i'm not going to say 'ban AI from the forums' or anything. do your own thing, whatever makes you comfortable. at the end of the day, this is a hobby, and how you engage with it is your prerogative, just as it is other people's prerogative to avoid AI like the plague. it's a free world, in the end. or so they say, anyway.

 

[Tenzai]

Personally? While AI might have its place when it comes to handling grammatic errors (for example, I throw my posts into google docs or Microsoft Word to detect for errors in grammar, punctuation, and spelling), my opinion is that having it replace the core fundamental process of world and character creation as well as exploring the stories within takes away from the intellectual intimacy of it all, stripping a writing partnership of trust if not clarified sooner and otherwise doing away with the mental depth that goes into knowing your characters. If a bot can replicate your writing, what's the point of needing the writer, no? If the person I'm writing with is relying on a bot to generate a response, why do I need to have the middle man there when I could just write with the bot directly.

I come to this site for the sake of finding writing partners; Others that with fingers on keyboards that I could share in my creative pursuits figuring out a story from a shared creative fugue regardless of potential mistakes, errors, and other potential risks that just comes with writing with people. If I wanted to write with Ai, I would seek it on another site meant specifically for that, like CHAI or character.AI rather than BMR.

While when it comes to running other roleplays that involved gamified systems (5e, pathfinder 2e, etc.) and math, I let programs handle the stat accounting, I prioritize my focus and time on the narrative components: The dialog, the quests, the chemistry in between characters, and the steps that lead to a character achieving a goal, now all that and more are what matters to me. I think the main thing is to understand that AI does have a place as a tool, but for me, I don't think its something I find acceptable when it comes to fleshing out stories with depth. Randomly generating names is one thing, perhaps the minute features of a location too, but having it be the driving force behind what that name is saying or doing is another thing entirely; Perhaps that's acceptable to some and more power to them, but for me? I feel its unacceptable.

I get that it could be used for accessibility for Non-English speakers and others lacking the vocabulary, but I feel like in that case, they wouldn't make for a good fit for a writing partner for me in the first place. Either it means that they won't understand the words that I'm writing or that they won't understand well the words that the AI is writing. AI is imperfect at the moment too and many times, it lacks long term memory, only being able to store a select amount of tokens over the sake of performance.

What this means is that its prone to looping the same actions and ideas if given a long enough span of time, content, and messages, forgetting key events that a human on the other end would otherwise not. For short term smutty one shots, I think it'll serve well, but for people like me who tend to write stories in the thousands of words per post over longer terms with complicated social webs featuring multiple characters, each with their own personalities (My longest RP on here being @ 24 pages for example), it would be a poor alternative to a real human trying their best.

Great writing partners are priceless and I get that everyone has to start from somewhere, but one can't grow as a writer if they don't put some time and work in it; If they don't fail in it and make mistakes to learn from in the first place. To put it in other terms:

You can't grow as a chef if you rely on the microwave to cook everything.​

 

[Siph]

I am specifically not wanting to discuss AI artwork and the ethics surrounding that in this thread; I want to only focus on words, and the use of AI in the writing space.

I think it's interesting to specify this since, while I'm not going to argue that my fanfics of girls smooching each other necessarily count as "art", literature very much is an artform the same way drawing is, and creative writing is, regardless of the quality, an inherently creative process. As such, I view both uses AI in very much the same manner: aside from indefensible questionable ethics that I'll keep myself from whining about, the final product of either form of genAI is just . . . bland. Generic and soulless, missing the quirks that individual writers have but having plenty of weird quirks that are distinctly nonhuman, often showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject matter. Even if you can't put your finger on what exactly is wrong, it's often easy to tell what is and isn't made with genuine passion.

Both are presented as a way to make an artform more accessible, while completely eliminating what makes art art, and perhaps most important why people enjoy making art.

Edit about site policy:

I think it wouldn't be that hot of a take to ask for generative AI to be banned altogether -- both because these threads are almost unanimously opposed to the use of it in RP at least on an individual level, but also because BMR has always presented itself as a writing site, setting it apart from many Discords and Subreddits that have much looser definitions of what counts as roleplay. While I'm not calling for the admins to add such a rule, I wouldn't be surprised or upset if they eventually did.

I think the accessibility argument is kinda silly. Accessibility is putting elevators in buildings for people who can't walk stairs. Accessibility is putting subtitles under a PSA for people who can't hear.

BMR makes the very reasonable and pragmatic assumption that all members can communicate in English, at at least a basic level. At that point, calling genAI an accessibility feature to improve your writing is like saying the subway is an accessibility feature to "run" the NYC marathon, when you can walk just fine.

I can see an argument to use AI as part of translation software (e.g. when someone doesn't command a basic level of English), but there's no question that AI transcription isn't anywhere near the point of doing so reliably for anything but the most elementary conversations.

 

[CopeCarousel]

I dislike AI in RP because I want to hear my partner's voice, not some machine, and because of my general dislike towards it. I wish it wasn't being forced by big tech and governments so much, because that alone makes me skeptical, even if AI undoubtedly has is upsides in logistic paperwork spaces or academics. (not the point of this thread though, so to return to the topic.)

In RP, despite my personal dislike, I can't deny it can be useful as a complimentary tool. English isn't my first language so my vocabulary can be limited at times, so running a finished post through an AI rewrite to learn additional phrases or read alternative wording I didn't think of, is just useful to hone writing skills.

When stuck in a creative dip, giving AI a prompt and watch it come up with something funny or interesting can also spark creativity.

If my partner uses AI and I don't notice, I obviously won't worry about it. Especially if it's just enhancements instead of complete laziness. If they ask me if it's okay to use, I'd agree if they just use it as an edit tool and still write the base post themselves. But if a newbie writer wants to use AI to improve themselves alongside it and offer better quality posts when merging their own + AI, that's also always fine with me.

Personally I write all my posts alone, but I have run some posts through a grammar edit afterwards out of curiosity.

My biggest concern about AI in writing isn't so much about the current writers, but rather how it impacts future writers. An AI dominated market is really unhealthy for book writers and at the same time that overreliance could make people lazy and dull.

So while, in theory, AI could be extremely useful in teaching languages or enhance personal writing skills if used well, in reality I fear it will have underlying negative impacts just like many other recent "inventions", making people lazy and uncreative and force actual writing like fanfics out of the market just like drawings.

Maybe that will boost the RP community if more people look for actual human interaction again though, I hope so.

On AI chatbots, I have played around with some for a bit. In a way it's quite fun because the bot will respond instantly, stay in character, and save conversations, so it's a convenient side-tool for smaller breaks across the day when wanting to write just one post or two. And even if I write just 3 or 3 words, it will upload some cute multi-para story from its database.

On the other hand it's like a positively-wired echo chamber that tries to emulate human interaction as best as it can while wanting to keep you hooked with easy and speedy availability, so again a negative impact.

In terms of AI writing quality. I disagree that it can be recognized easily. Some free programs already are very good, even if still repetitive after a few posts for now, but it will only keep getting better and better.

Especially paid services or the topline products used by big tech, there's no feasible way to tell the difference in writing or on discussion boards since they can effortlessly adapt to a broad spectrum of different conversational styles.

So I'm torn on it. Low impact AI in society would be great, overforcing it into every corner will be horrible.

 

[echo]

As someone who uses Grammarly to aid in some word selections, (the synonym finder is very helpful if one is opposed to repetition in words), I am nay too keen on using it to write for me. Sure, I could pay for the service, but I am not trying to use it to write things for me, only to aid in spelling and grammatical errors that I am often prone to making.

Though, my post here will not be as long as others who have posted, I will say that I have spent far too much time and money, (university and writing workshops), on learning how to write well enough that I would hope that I would never need AI to write anything for me. Policing my abuse of commas and constantly misspelt words thanks to a hard and long fight with dyslexia, sure, but to write out full-on replies... Hard pass. I learned to write before Google was in every classroom and before the creation of any sort of AI helper, so sometimes it can be difficult to compete with some of the technologies people use to create things these days.

I think AI could be a wonderful aid, but it shouldn't be the thing that writes/creates for humans. Using it to help with grammar/sentence structure, or finding different words, is one thing, but to have it write the entire post/chapter, well, that is a different matter altogether. I put thought into what I write, and I would hope that when writing with another, they would too. But, I do not mind if they used a tool to help with spelling/grammar if needed.

Do I think people abuse the AI? Absolutely. (Not trying to seem all Sarah Connor-ish, but she did have a point. It'll turn on us one day.) Do I think AI makes people lazy? Darn right, I do. It may help with the minor stuff, but letting it write all of the things can make the writer behind the screen lazy and at which point, why even bother writing in the first place if one is going to let the computer do it for them? (Also, using AI makes it 'smarter', therefore, making Ms Connor's theory plausible that it will eventually take over )

The point I am trying to make is, if you use it, don't let it use you. Sure, the little things are a nice help, but don't let the little things turn into ALL of the things... (don't know if anyone could follow that last line, but basically, don't let it write for you. If you use it at all, you should let it help you, to highlight the misspelt words, bad use of commas or prepositions, but don't flat out let it write the posts for you.)

 

[Sync]

Do I recognise that some might find AI helpful to aid them in their writing, especially if they feel they're not good writers to begin with? Absolutely, some will do that.

Do I find it helpful? No. And I won't use it because I don't want to have AI become a crutch for my mind.

A recent study by MIT has found that already the use of AI is making people less intelligent, with the significant finding being that over 80% of ChatGPT users don't recall what it was that ChatGPT just wrote for them.

LLMs (Large Language Models - such as ChatGPT) do the heavy lifting for our brains, so the brain isn't working as hard. With the brain not working as hard, the neurons aren't firings as much, and learning & development isn't taking place. For older people, this could lead to the increase in the rate of decay of mental functions.

Some will find AI tools helpful. If they use AI tools to supplement the work their brain is doing (is they use AI to do some work, then use their brain to edit it and re-write it), then all power to them. If they're using AI tools to replace the work their brain should be doing, then I believe they're on a downward spiral.

 

[reverie.]

i use grammarly as an add-on in chrome so it can pick up on lousy spelling mistakes, but that's all i use it for. it sometimes suggests rephrasing of sentences, but more often than not, it suggests things that i would never write and therefore, i ignore it. i am actually proud of my writing (despite thinking it's shit sometimes). i honestly don't understand why anyone would want AI to write anything for them. it takes away your character's voice, and yours. and isn't the whole point of writing to step into your character's shoes and dig deep into their mind and soul? i don't want someone else to do that for me. when i write a reply (or write solo), that's the part i enjoy the most.

now, i understand why someone would use AI for writing (maybe they're not that good of a writer, or maybe they're insecure and wants to write 'better', or maybe they're just lazy), but like i said above ~ it takes away your voice (and the joy of writing). so, let's say you have chatgpt write you something, and you edit it a hundred times ~ it will never be your writing, your words, your voice, your work. and it's not even that hard to tell if something is written by AI (if you know what you're looking for). it's often too flawless, to the point where it doesn't really flow like it should, as if it's written as non-fiction ~ it just doesn't sound right. and it sure as hell doesn't sound like you.

if someone used AI to write me a reply, i'd be highly offended. not only because i put time and effort into my reply and they did not, but because i want them to play their character. i want to know what they would have done if they were in their character's shoes, what they would have their character think, feel, and do. that's the reason i roleplay in the first place ~ to create exciting stories and see how our characters unfold, how they interact with each other.

i think AI could be useful in many ways (i've used it to figure out some coding), but it should not be used for creative writing. (and certainly not art, but let's not go into that, heh).

to prove my point, let me just show you a snippet of my own writing (which is by no means flawless or perfect, but it is my writing, my voice, my style):​

"Uncle James, Melissa—hi!" Christina held the door open for them, making sure to send her uncle some ugly glares whenever Melissa wasn't looking. "It's been so long!" she lied, faking her enthusiasm. "Come on in. Dinner's almost ready." She was going to make sure her uncle would regret inviting himself over for dinner without giving her a fair warning. And, for bringing his fucking wife.​

here is what chatgpt suggested as an improvement (which i honestly do not consider an improvement, lol):​

“Uncle James! Melissa—hi!” Her voice was bright, her expression glowing, but the warmth was entirely performative. She stepped aside, holding the door for them, shooting her uncle quick, pointed glares whenever Melissa’s back was turned. “It’s been so long!” she lied, loading her words with fake cheer. “Come on in. Dinner’s almost ready.” But she’d already decided: her uncle was going to regret inviting himself over without a heads-up. And bringing his wife—her—was just salt in the wound.​

​

 

[Tassu]

I agree with many above me. AI does better job at finding typos and grammar mistakes than I do. Especially as I am not a native writer. That's why I use them to make sure that my partners don't have to guess what I am trying to say.

That said, I don't use AI to generate text. I've tried for work, but as it turns out, I write better than generative AI. I believe my partners want to read what I wrote. My words. That's why they chose to write with me.

However, I believe that in business and education chatgpt will become a new norm. It's in many ways like Wikipedia or Google. It is a tool, but people must pay due diligence when using it. Some won't and will suffer for it.

 

[Baka]

People have made great points here already, but throwing my two-cents in: I dislike AI in creative works wholeheartedly, and writing is no exception. Sadly in both written and image-creating field the advances of the technology are becoming so good that it is getting harder and harder to spot differences, and as many have expressed the AI detection tools can be extremely hit or miss. If my prospective partner manages to fool me with AI writing then it is what it is. If I can't sniff it out and they will use it to make posts for me then there's nothing I can do. It is in my opinion a slap on the face and extremely distasteful, but if I am none of the wiser then I can't really do anything about it. If my partner tells me that they craft their posts with AI completely, or I catch them in the act then the RP stops there. No ifs or buts. I am here to write and play with people, not a language model that spews out things that it thinks I want to read. If we exclude the ethical portion and all that it just feels wrong to me, and just makes me think why they are even writing with me if they don't want to write, or put in the effort to collaboratively write. If they use AI to spell check or whatever then it is not an end of the world for me, same if they privately bounce ideas between the AI and them (and as long as I don't know about it), but if the AI takes the wheel when it comes to creative writing then I have zero tolerance for it. I am not a native English speaker. If I lack vocabulary I dig out a translator, if I am not sure how to describe things I will just do my best at it and even attach picture or two to give partner an idea what I am going for if necessary. There are other alternatives to make things more accessible to people than AI, and most of the the writing and creativity related ones can be overcome by writing with partner/yourself or consuming medium to get ideas for example. While finding people who are patient or willing with people whose grammar leaves something to be desired is tough I would just suggest people to keep at it. You'll find someone eventually, and in the meantime try writing your own stories, consuming english-written medium etc. While a good grammar and way with words is always a plus I value the effort one puts on their post a much more than the presentation of it all. If I can make sense of it and understand what my partner says as well as see the effort and interest I am a happy camper. We all started somewhere, and as a person who is not a native English speaker I can understand the struggles, but instead of taking the easy way out seeing the effort is much more rewarding in the long-run. I want to end this with my honest opinion about the AI-usage in creative hobbies: If someone needs to outsource the creative part of the creative hobby (without heavy reason to do so) they want to engage in and/or does not want to put in the effort to get good at it then maybe the creative hobby is just not for them.

 

[Red-Scarlet]

Using programs to help with spelling?
Totally fine.

Using programs to help with grammar?
You have to know the grammar yourself, to make sure it's accurate, but as a helpful tool, entirely fine.

Using AI to write your ideas?
No. Not for me, and not something I'd want a writing partner doing.

 

[Solo]

I feel the way about AI in writing as I feel about AI in everything else: destroying the environment to do something you are either too unskilled or too lazy to do by yourself is a selfish thing to do.

There have been tools like Grammarly, spell-check that eventually became prevalent in most modern technology, even chatbots, that I haven't had the disdain for that I have for what AI has become, and I think most of it, to me, boils down to the resource-gobbling. Morally, I think it's terrible to use a technology that will send us into the water wars sooner rather than later just because I can't be bothered to come up with setting ideas or plot points, so I don't touch it with a ten-foot pole and I don't write with anyone who does.

 

[Cat]

pulls up to this thread

eerr, obviously personal preference. I just wanna say, if you use AI to write-- never message me. That uhhh, is very strange. Very mindboggling, even.

 

[Sync]

to prove my point, let me just show you a snippet of my own writing (which is by no means flawless or perfect, but it is my writing, my voice, my style):​

"Uncle James, Melissa—hi!" Christina held the door open for them, making sure to send her uncle some ugly glares whenever Melissa wasn't looking. "It's been so long!" she lied, faking her enthusiasm. "Come on in. Dinner's almost ready." She was going to make sure her uncle would regret inviting himself over for dinner without giving her a fair warning. And, for bringing his fucking wife.​

here is what chatgpt suggested as an improvement (which i honestly do not consider an improvement, lol):​

“Uncle James! Melissa—hi!” Her voice was bright, her expression glowing, but the warmth was entirely performative. She stepped aside, holding the door for them, shooting her uncle quick, pointed glares whenever Melissa’s back was turned. “It’s been so long!” she lied, loading her words with fake cheer. “Come on in. Dinner’s almost ready.” But she’d already decided: her uncle was going to regret inviting himself over without a heads-up. And bringing his wife—her—was just salt in the wound.​

​

Hmmm...comparing your words to ChatGPT:
- you immediately lose the subject of the passage; Christina has been removed as a reference in the AI version, making way for an unknown "she".
- the ChatGPT version uses a larger number of simpler words that, while having the same overall meaning, lose contextual flavour and life.

It's harder to make a more in-depth analysis of the two styles with such a short sample, but that's what I immediately got from the above.

 

[KutakaZion]

Honestly, I've had partners use AI to write their responses during my ERPs, and I usually just don't respond to them or tell them to stop it.

Its just destructive, not to mention that AI is only good for generating porn, sometimes. I think personally that AI is just a tool for lazy people to use. It can't even roleplay well, nor remember what output it just made. Lemme say this people: AI WILL NEVER REPLACE REAL PEOPLE

 

[Mint]

I'll mirror the consensus and say I greatly disapprove of AI in the arts in general, people can do what they want-- but I'll have no part in it, I'm here for a collabrative experience with fellow humans. I don't care if you're 'perfect', I don't want you to be perfect, I write with you cause I like you as a person. Having AI in the mix ruins the human connection we share as writers and if people were using AI to respond to my posts I'd be very upset.

My personal preferences is all, no thanks.