Question about new Rule 5.a

[Sync]

Just read the updated site rules, in particular rule 5a:

5a. No major abuse or actions may take place toward a character younger than 15. Beyond sexual acts, this means that you may not expound upon abuse, be it mental or physical, toward a pre-15 within your story. This is an adult writing site and stories should not include such serious acts toward or from pre-15 characters. One may include minor wrongdoing type of acts, such as shoplifting, sneaking beers & smokes and the like, typical for teenage rebellion, but major offenses and abuse that are violent and torturous toward pre-15 characters is not to be included in writing or backstory.

Keep in mind that I am totally on-board with it not being referenced in-story. I'm curious, though, about the inclusion of backstory in the rule.

What the rule implies, then, is that all characters are to have led perfect lives up to the age of 15...is that right? There can be no reference in a character's backstory to any dark events occurring? A character cannot, for example, talk about how their father used to beat them when they were 10?

That potentially makes for a lot of weak character histories if everyone has a perfect childhood.

 

[Lomesa]

It seems a bit ridiculous to ban content you'd see in a PG 13 show. And for fandoms it means you'll have to omit character motivations and dynamics that are integral to the character.

Let's take a super common kids' show like Dragon Ball Z. It has Gohan, a kid whose not even ten years old see his father die and gets beat to a pulp himself more than a few times. So pretty harsh physical abuse, bordering on torture and a traumatic life event. But it's a cartoon and fictional characters.

It's banning a whole set of storytelling tropes that are as common as dirt.

So we're not allowed to write something you'd see on a kids show on a adult writing site allowing rape and incest (and much much more).

I can understand banning the writing of sexual abuse of minors on the site for legal reasons, but a character not even being able to think/ mention (in an non explicit way) what happened to them in the past as a child/teen seems somewhat excessive.

 

[Prose]

One may say that they were abused as a child, but the specifics of anything particularly heinous or torturous pre-15 cannot be expound upon. Abuse is abuse, be it sexual, physically violent or mentally torturous.

If sexual abuse is forbidden to write about involving an 8 year on old, then why would physically beating an 8 year on old, or mentally abusing one via degrading and humiliating acts be okay? All because it's not sexual? Only sex toward small children is upsetting? Not physically or mentally scarring abuse?

Recounting the horrific details or playing them out involving someone under 15 is something that doesn't belong here.

You can refer to having been abused pre-15, but don't go beyond that, because abuse is abuse. Saying that you can do whatever kind of abuse you want to a child, as long as genitals aren't involved is absurd. We're not saying that your character couldn't have been victim to these acts as a small child, just leave the details out of it. This isn't a site for newborn to 14 year old abusive content.

 

[prettysoft]

When it comes to writing, simply stating or alluding to what happened to your underage character should suffice. In todays world, PG-13 isn’t graphic and also stands for parental guidance so they are under the assumption you have a parent present to guide you through what you’re seeing.

Anyways, there are a lot of archetypes, tropes, and backstories that can be created without fully going into detail about the abuse that has happened to your underage character. It comes down to personal taste and how creative you want to get with it.

I am personally happy that the rule is created and expanded on.

 

[Lomesa]

I wasn't arguing that the portrayal sexual abuse isn't allowed because it's wrong, usually its instated because of legalities is certain countries so I don't know where ypur argument is coming from regarding that. The difference between writing a fictional child being sexually abused and between a fictional child being mentally/physically abused is that in some countries writing sexual abuse of a minor can actually get you in trouble with the law.

The rest is just a matter of taste. Writing about children going through trauma and being abused is commonplace in literature. It's absolutely bizarre and that it would be disallowed on a writing site.

Why would something we've all been exposed to in media since we were children by banned on an adult writing site.

Here's plenty distasteful fictional happenings (both sexual and non sexual) going on, why ban this particular one? These aren't actual kids being hurt, just a few letters on a page and what your mind conjures up in your imagination based on it.

 

[Doctor Manhattan]

It is one of those cases in which perception can affect the interpretation and imagination, and especially for such a sensitive issue it is wiser to err on the side of caution precisely because so few are good at distinguishing the actual difference. You might be all good with it but it might also heavily trigger someone and in this case it's also because of the legalities involved regarding minors and such that the policy makes sense.

Perhaps it is a matter of taste but in that case being on the side of "better" taste in this regard makes sense, right?

Even within the media, the sensitivity and reams of legalities required to even show abuse of a child onscreen is extremely complex. You cannot simply film it and show it; doesn't work that way. Yes, there are times when it can seem odd or weird, when it comes to censorship, but generally that is to prevent the worst case scenario from happening while merely hoping for the best instead.

That is why the rule is being expanded upon in my opinion, but I could be wrong. I do get it though.

 

[Prose]

If these aren't actual kids, then sexual content should be fine too under that approach. You want to draw the line at sexual abuse, but not any other kind of abuse, simply due to law of certain lands. That is fine that you have where your line is drawn. We are not saying that you can't have your own line of what you find acceptable. What we are saying that we have our line for this site and our line is the standard and the rule that members shall adhere to.

 

[Lomesa]

If I wanted to tell the story of the effect being a child soldier had on my character, I wouldn't be able to show my characters experience being indoctrinated, being wounded and watching friends die... Only mention it in passing. It would come at a great cost to the emotional resonance of my character and make it so much less more meaningful.

This rule is very limiting and removes a whole facet of human experience we are able to write about.

Lucklily I have 0% investment in this site, as I'm pretty much brand new, because limitations like these aren't a good sign for things to come...

 

[Lomesa]

Restrictions on film and similar visual media is very different in most cases and has a lot to do with exposing kids to such content

This is a writing site restricted to persons over 18.

I mean rape could trigger someone in a rp, incest could, a character being in a car crash could just as much as a kit being hit by their abusive dad...

 

[prettysoft]

I am personally happy that people can not indulge any sort of need to portray abuse on childrens bodies. Fiction or not, it really is not necessary to flash back or go into detail writing to another person behind the screen about the psychological torture, or sexual/physical abuse that another character has inflicted on their underage character.

You can say character a. has been abused/beaten(correct me if I’m wrong) but shouldn’t the focus be on the character development and growth of the character, not the actual events that have happened to make them this way, and truly it shouldn’t need to be explained more than once IC to get the point across?

 

[Lomesa]

Sure it could be done without playing it out, but it would in various scenarios be poorer writing because of it.

For example: My dad died in a car crash. How sad

But if you play out that scene, get into the character's mind, show the horror of what happened. Its much more meaningful and just better storytelling in many cases.

 

[Lomesa]

Anyway, this is the dumbest thing I've seen in role play in almost a decade, so cheers. I'm good at knowing when to jump ship.

 

[prettysoft]

Sure it could be done without playing it out, but it would in various scenarios be poorer writing because of it.

For example: My dad died in a car crash. How sad

But if you play out that scene, get into the character's mind, show the horror of what happened. Its much more meaningful and just better storytelling in many cases.

And in that regard, it comes down to individual writing ability.

Maybe you could spice up the scene by adding vocal inflections, body language, and thoughts and emotions? The want to write out abuse on a child fiction or not is unnecessary, and I have written characters with backgrounds of abuse ranging from adult to teen. You could have your character be a victim of abuse through action and how she responds to external stimuli.

 

[Saber]

Sure it could be done without playing it out, but it would in various scenarios be poorer writing because of it.

For example: My dad died in a car crash. How sad

But if you play out that scene, get into the character's mind, show the horror of what happened. Its much more meaningful and just better storytelling in many cases.

I feel you are downplaying the ability of a writer based on your bias. This is easily solved by aging the character to 15 and remembering the car crash as a 15 year old.

 

[Prose]

With what you last said about a child soldier, I'm not even going to disagree with you. There are numerous scenarios that make sense for a story, that can explain the origins of a character and highlight their motivations or behavior. Having said that, this isn't the site to write in graphic detail the violence, torture and abuse of someone that is a child, where everything is okay as long as it isn't sexual. A lot of people draw the line in a different spot than you do. Any violence and abuse pre-15 is sickening to many people.

Beating a 10 year old to a pulp for story arc is going to upset a great number of people, while others will rave about great storytelling. You can then say that the site allows rape and murder to adults, and that is triggering to others too, and we can agree on that as well. However, rape, murder and other abuses aren't prohibited to write about here, just when it is included in pre-15 years of age content.

---

To address the father dying in a car crash scene, now we're getting into discretion territory and what my opinion is might differ from other staff members. In my view, having lost a parent in a car crash isn't abuse to the child. Traumatic, yes, but abusive no. Then the next question is, "What traumas can we write about involving a 10 year old then?", well there will always be discretion (which can also read as: disagreements) on what is okay and not okay. "I lost my dad in a car crash when I was 10." is not going to get you banned from the site. "I lost my dad in a car crash when I was 10, then I went out on a crime spree as a runaway and got caught up in drug use and then got kidnapped while passed out stoned, dropped into a child sex trafficking ring and it's a wonder I made it out alive.", that expounds on territory that just isn't ideal for this site.

Do you feel a bit restricted because of a new rule? Yes, it sounds like you do. We're sorry that you feel that way and restricting creativity isn't the aim, but it is an unintended side-effect when trying to lock down other problematic issues and concerns. Any rule or law can unintentionally restrict something else that is wholly or partially unrelated. We all have to use our discretion, both staff and members alike.

 

[ƒeral]

I'm typically a staunch advocate against censorship; however, as is with anything else, a policy must be examined on both sides.

Take for example - "I'm looking for an RP where I explore the abuse of a child younger than 15 in graphic details as part of that child's backstory."

Absent this rule, that's clearly aimed to skirt the line by obeying its black letter, but dodging the spirit, no? How do you propose we resolve situatuons like this.

I can understand the desire to be able to write anything because writing is writing, but this is absolutely a situation where a few unsavory eggs have ruined the pond, necessitating stricter regulation. Because, using those same arguments, I can easily say well, we are already exposed to the sexual exploitation of children in media, why can't we write it on bmr?

At that point, why rules at all?

Bmr is a community, any community is entitled to moderate its own values. Graphic description of child abuse do not comport with bmr's values. This falls in the same line as bmr not being welcoming to people who want to write minors below a certain age bumping uglies. I would say as a whole, bmr is incredibly open-minded and accepting of just about anything. Regulating and excluding certain extremeisms is well within reason.

 

[whitechapel]

We could just skip all this bush beating and make the character age limit for sexually explicit/sexually adjacent scenes 18+. Pretty sure kids getting diddled is what grosses most people out (me included).

But that's just my opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Kassia]

We could just skip all this bush beating and make the character age limit for sexually explicit/sexually adjacent scenes 18+. Pretty sure kids getting diddled is what grosses most people out (me included).

But that's just my opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I second this, to be honest. There's a vast majority of RP sites based in the US which limit everything to 18. It's stricter, but it saves everyone the headache. Backgrounds could still be provided within the context of this rule-- but since it's a 18+ site it would make sense to have 18+ characters. Especially since members have to age up their characters to 15 anyways, what's a few more years?

 

[prettysoft]

I think so too! 18+ would eliminate the gray area.

 

[whitechapel]

It would eliminate the gray area AND keep the website from being a safe space for pedophiles.

That's what we call a win-win.

 

[prettysoft]

It would eliminate the gray area AND keep the website from being a safe space for pedophiles.

That's what we call a win-win.

To put it straight, yes. I was planning to be nice and not call people pedos lol, but it’s facts.

 

[Mitsu]

I think there's often a clear distinction between literature and smut. Many of the arguments made in this thread would very much apply to literature. A coming of age story that explores the sexuality of teenagers is a thing many people enjoy and don't have much of a problem with. We've all seen teen dramas to some extent, and many feature those teens engaging in adult behavior to some extent. Even a movie like Leon the Professional has some borderline themes of pedophilia, but it doesn't feel like smut or porn or filth. There's an eye test that many people give to content, and that eye test determines whether or not something is art.

Due to the overwhelmingly sexual nature of this website, I scoff at many notions regarding the sexualization of minors as being a creative outlet. Most of the time it's outright porn. It is extremely difficult to find a role-play on this website that doesn't slant towards the sexual within ten posts. I think it is abundantly clear that it is very possible to tell stories featuring minors and children in adult or abusive situations that make for a good story. American Gigolo, a recent show staring Jon Bernthal, features a male child that is essentially pimped out by his mother. This is character building, and while you watch the show you understand that it is not written or filmed to be provocative in the sexual sense. I do not believe the same can be said for the vast majority of the writing on this website.

This place is full of people that want to get off to minors being fucked and abused.

While I usually will advocate for the idea that you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think at some point you have to put your foot down. I do not believe this change was made solely due to the preferences of the administration team. This isn't solely some kind of moral crusade with crosses on shoulders. I've been here a long time and I've been familiar with the various admins and mods over the years. I'm well aware of how pedophilia and pedophiles like to infest this website. They create alternate accounts, they evade bans, and do whatever it is they can do to find people to help them write their smut. To me this is a inevitable and long coming step in the right direction to start to crack down on that sort of content.

If you can't handle the idea of not being able to write about children being fucked and abused, perhaps it's time to look inside of yourself and question why that's bothering you so much. Is it so integral to your creative process that those elements be explored so deeply in your writing? Why? Are you lacking in the creative ability to create engaging characters without explicit childhood trauma?

I'm also in favor of steps to even push the age limit up, as others have suggested.

 

[Retrojapan]

I think there's often a clear distinction between literature and smut. Many of the arguments made in this thread would very much apply to literature. A coming of age story that explores the sexuality of teenagers is a thing many people enjoy and don't have much of a problem with. We've all seen teen dramas to some extent, and many feature those teens engaging in adult behavior to some extent. Even a movie like Leon the Professional has some borderline themes of pedophilia, but it doesn't feel like smut or porn or filth. There's an eye test that many people give to content, and that eye test determines whether or not something is art.

Due to the overwhelmingly sexual nature of this website, I scoff at many notions regarding the sexualization of minors as being a creative outlet. Most of the time it's outright porn. It is extremely difficult to find a role-play on this website that doesn't slant towards the sexual within ten posts. I think it is abundantly clear that it is very possible to tell stories featuring minors and children in adult or abusive situations that make for a good story. American Gigolo, a recent show staring Jon Bernthal, features a male child that is essentially pimped out by his mother. This is character building, and while you watch the show you understand that it is not written or filmed to be provocative in the sexual sense. I do not believe the same can be said for the vast majority of the writing on this website.

This place is full of people that want to get off to minors being fucked and abused.

While I usually will advocate for the idea that you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think at some point you have to put your foot down. I do not believe this change was made solely due to the preferences of the administration team. This isn't solely some kind of moral crusade with crosses on shoulders. I've been here a long time and I've been familiar with the various admins and mods over the years. I'm well aware of how pedophilia and pedophiles like to infest this website. They create alternate accounts, they evade bans, and do whatever it is they can do to find people to help them write their smut. To me this is a inevitable and long coming step in the right direction to start to crack down on that sort of content.

If you can't handle the idea of not being able to write about children being fucked and abused, perhaps it's time to look inside of yourself and question why that's bothering you so much. Is it so integral to your creative process that those elements be explored so deeply in your writing? Why? Are you lacking in the creative ability to create engaging characters without explicit childhood trauma?

I'm also in favor of steps to even push the age limit up, as others have suggested.

 

[whitechapel]

To put it straight, yes. I was planning to be nice and not call people pedos lol, but it’s facts.

See, usually I'd agree. Be nice. Don't call people pedos.

But it's like that old adage says: If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it wants to bang children like a duck...

Shit, I forgot how it finishes.

 

[Lord DreamCrusher]

I write almost exclusively Fantasy and Sci-Fi genres where many different species of creature exist which already causes a lot of potential issue with the strict age limitations on this website. I'm not saying I don't understand wanting to keep things to a legal area just to err on the safe side, however I certainly feel like the new rule is a layer of creative restriction in the case of stories and writers that otherwise have a unique idea they want to explore but aren't strictly seeking the "worst case scenario" that people are advocating this to prevent.

Restrictions are a double-edged sword and, honestly, I'm more in agreeance that 5a comes down too hard on certain genres as a whole. Telling a dark fantasy tale of a warrior battling demons for example might need harsh events to happen to help drive home how terrible these creatures are. The death of a child on-screen as it were is now seemingly off limits even as a narrative point is too heavy handed in my opinion.

Obviously the rule is in-place and isn't likely to change at this point with the way people are talking about above but context is everything and blanket restrictions such as this harm the freedoms of non-troublemakers just as much, if not moreso, than individuals who enjoy more sadistic pursuits. Is this going to "ruin" all my future roleplays and cause me massive grief? Absolutely not. However it will remain an added stress hanging over my shoulder that I could easily envision myself slipping up and breaking without a second thought and I'd hate to earn a ban for writing something that most people would never even blink at just because it is now outside the lines of this 'community's' guidelines.

Even if these words amount to nothing I still want to speak my opinion and be heard on this community when a topic like this rolls around.