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Bad Endings

Seranda

Seranda

🎵 Fighting Evil By Moonlight 🎵
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Location
The House of Hades
I had a roleplay end where my character (an elf) and his character (a human) had gone through a series of events, an adventure to find and stop an evil demon from being resurrected. Coming a bit too late, the demon overpowers them, and just when the hero think he's won, the demon uses an underhanded tactic to blind him. He attacks their allies, characters we have built for over a year, and simply starts to decimate them. One of our characters chose to run away. He'd survive somehow, as one of his best friends was torn apart. The hero tries to land another blow but now the demon has become more powerful, blasting him and half of his body being crushed upon a hard stone wall. His vision starts to fade. The love of his life still fighting the demon until he overpowers her and pins her down to rape her. She cries and screams, now noticing he had been slammed against the wall and was fading away. The demon's minions swarm to the hero and he hears his love screaming in pain as the demon laughs.

All you hear is munching and crunching, the hero was being eaten as his woman was being raped and forced to watch her love be devoured, all hope lost.

How do you guys generally feel about bad endings? I think they are quite the interesting tool to tell a story. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows and while the example above is grim and dark, there are other ways for a bad ending to happen. Your predestined main characters simply don't work out. Something, somewhere happens and they cannot recover from it. The bad guy wins, the good guy is killed or sent away somehow. No one can stop the bad guy from doing what he wants.

I sometimes like to add a glimmer of hope to a bad ending. Where as a character may be at his wits end. Everything he's worked for has gone to nothing, but something, even subtle, happens that lets you know this story is not over.

Just want to hear thoughts and if anyone actually enjoys bad endings. I like the notion of the good guys don't always win. But more often than not, I do seek a happy ending for our characters.
 
One storiy’s bad ending is the next story’s backstory, IMHO. I mean, one long-running RP I had ended with the female lead dead, the male lead crippled and blind, and their infant daughter in the hands of the Evil Overlord who has triumphed.

The sequel has the now-grown daughter learning her true heritage.

I guess what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily like bad endings as a final story (I write for escapism), but it’s a great way to end a particular arc.
 
Nah, hate 'em. I'm roleplaying mostly for the escapist aspect of it, and even if I were writing for myself, an ending where everyone is just dead or being raped is not to my taste. It's just too nihilistic for me. The closest I came to something like that, my character fell down a deep ravine with a broken sword in his eye, their character was captured and was being freely abused (not sexually, mind you) on the way to her being brought before the new king. This was used as a vehicle more to reveal a dark secret about my character that I'd been dropping hints about since the beginning and to harden her character into the fighter he told her she'd need to be for them to survive. It was heavy and hard to write, but seeing the way it all started to come together was great. If the story had ended there? The guardian dead in a pit, the girl made into a pet and used to complete the new king's machinations? Wouldn't have been satisfied by that. There's nothing about an undeserving asshole winning that makes me happy, and I certainly can't find any joy in people trying their hardest being ground into the dirt.

If I were to make an exception, things would have to be much more morally gray on both sides, but at that point, it isn't really heroes and villains, so I dunno if that counts as an exception at all.
 
TheCorsair said:
One storiy’s bad ending is the next story’s backstory, IMHO. I mean, one long-running RP I had ended with the female lead dead, the male lead crippled and blind, and their infant daughter in the hands of the Evil Overlord who has triumphed.

The sequel has the now-grown daughter learning her true heritage.

I guess what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily like bad endings as a final story (I write for escapism), but it’s a great way to end a particular arc.
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Basically my camp right here. Admittedly I have a few dark tastes too, and those are their own escapism. Some escapism doesn't call for joy, happiness and satisfaction; instead safe expression of pretty fucked up thoughts.
 
Meh...my life is far from a bed of roses.

Don't need my fantasy writing to be that way as well.
 
I think there is value in writing a story where the main characters struggle, where the hero doesn't necessarily win in the end or where the cost of winning is arguably not worth it. But bad endings are, well... Bad. I don't think most people will find enjoyment in watching a character struggle vainly, uselessly.

It may be realistic to say that the heroes don't always win, but I don't think most people read books or watch movies for the realism, necessarily. I certainly don't watch the series I do because they're a nitty-gritty reality.

Real life is plenty hard already, most people would definitely agree with that. There's no need for the stuff we consume to be terrible as well. So when I read/watch/consume media that's tough on their characters, I do it with the hope that they'll eventually come out on top somehow. I want a story of hope, not one where despair wins in the end.

But everyone has their likes and dislikes. c:
 
TheCorsair said:
One storiy’s bad ending is the next story’s backstory, IMHO. I mean, one long-running RP I had ended with the female lead dead, the male lead crippled and blind, and their infant daughter in the hands of the Evil Overlord who has triumphed.

The sequel has the now-grown daughter learning her true heritage.

I guess what I’m saying is I don’t necessarily like bad endings as a final story (I write for escapism), but it’s a great way to end a particular arc.
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For all intents and purposes, this is where I fall as well. I’m not a huge fan of bad endings. My problem being that I grow probably entirely to attached to my characters and hate to see them hurt when they should be having a happy ending with all the other shit I put them through during the course of a story.

Sometimes though.....exactly what Corsair said.......if it propels the sequel, for the most part I’m alright with it. Still really really hate to see death or serious harm come to my beloved characters though. I have a current story that I’m writing with a partner and I’m having to steal myself against the inevitable outcome because we ARE taking it to this very level......for sequel sake to be exact. Where we will tell their children’s story in part 2.
 
Seranda said:
As expected. Most do want the happy ending.
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I don't think that's what earlier responders said, at all. Most of it was about not ending where despair wins, or being pointlessly cruel to their characters.

I've played lethal TT games where characters did die, just mine never ended up dying (cuz I'm smart). Characters were also de-powered, de-aged, twisted to the point of being unplayable, and other endings that didn't allow us to continue using them. I even had one of MC's just end up saying "fuck it" and literally walked away as there was no reason for that character to continue engaging with the story. These are all bad endings but not Bad Endings. I can end on a downer note without a character needing to be dead or leaving them violated so badly they wish they were.

While partners didn't stick around to see it through, I have started stories of degradation where my characters would end up as mindless cocksleeves by the end. That's a Bad Ending according to most CYOA smut text games I've played. This isn't my regular fare, but the mood occasionally strikes.

I rarely plan for stories to have happy endings. Fantasy and smut are my escapism from a world where I expect a silently desperate bad ending for myself. I would get nothing out of playing out that bleak misery by planning a story where my character dies or equivalent. I don't think I've had a TT or online RP end happily, ever. The majority never got finished because TT groups broke up and online partners ghosted. THAT is the real bad ending as far as I'm concerned. It's that bleak wasteland of nothingness that my character gets left in. Too close to my own life. An honorable death would be better than that.

I don't think it's fun to see cruel villains win. That just happened, and it happens too often IRL. It's not going to be part of my stories unless the villain is hot and MC gets chained to their bed at the end. There are Bad Ends that don't have to be about the biting cold of the eternal darkness snuffing out all hope. There's a huge range in between that and a sunset on a wedding day. Most of us seem to be ok with much of that range. I think the severity of my depression usually determine where on that scale I'm hoping to land. But no, I've only planned maybe 2 stories ever that were intended for traditionally happy endings.
 
Taelir said:
Nah, hate 'em. I'm roleplaying mostly for the escapist aspect of it, and even if I were writing for myself, an ending where everyone is just dead or being raped is not to my taste. It's just too nihilistic for me. The closest I came to something like that, my character fell down a deep ravine with a broken sword in his eye, their character was captured and was being freely abused (not sexually, mind you) on the way to her being brought before the new king. This was used as a vehicle more to reveal a dark secret about my character that I'd been dropping hints about since the beginning and to harden her character into the fighter he told her she'd need to be for them to survive. It was heavy and hard to write, but seeing the way it all started to come together was great. If the story had ended there? The guardian dead in a pit, the girl made into a pet and used to complete the new king's machinations? Wouldn't have been satisfied by that. There's nothing about an undeserving asshole winning that makes me happy, and I certainly can't find any joy in people trying their hardest being ground into the dirt.

If I were to make an exception, things would have to be much more morally gray on both sides, but at that point, it isn't really heroes and villains, so I dunno if that counts as an exception at all.
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This is where I stand as well.

I put my characters through hell during the course of a story but I'm not a sadist. The struggle, the hope, the growth towards something is what I want to see. After I have pushed and pulled my characters through conflicts and tribulation, I like to reward them at the end. The Epilogue with the adventuring couple enjoying domestic life, playing with their child with another on the way. That's the perfect, satisfying end to me.

I do this for escapism and through my stories, I fantasize about a life where the good are rewarded and lovers grow old together.
 
One of my favorite endings (of the maybe two dozen RP I have finished over... 15+ years of roleplaying - yikes-) involved a man and an angel becoming romantically involved after she was sent down to recruit noble warriors for their God. The road was bumpy, and she wasn't the typical angel, having quite the sour outlook on most things, resorting to violence first, and me being a weeb, she's one of those characters who can see despite her eyes being happily closed most of the time, making her that much more fearsome when she committed violent acts. They grow close and fall in love. Eventually she is captured through trickery and deceit, and is burned, the hero and his band just missing her rescue, as they were held back, again and again by enemies. Eventually the hero gets to the enemy, defeats him after losing many allies and is greeted by other angels who thank him and promise him passage when his time comes. He kindly tells them to fuck off, and that they should have gotten involved to prevent her burning.

Many years pass and he remains a helpful man to his people, but could never commit to anyone again. He comes to a town that had been raided and burned, no sounds of screaming, only crackling flames. Looking for survivors, he comes across a home where a child girl was sitting patiently among the flames, long black hair and her eyes closed like his former angelic lover. They exchanged no words, but she walks to him with a quiet smile and takes his hand. The hero walking out of the burned village with this small girl, hand in tiny hand.

Wonder if that counts as a bad end.
 
Seranda said:
[...]

Many years pass and he remains a helpful man to his people, but could never commit to anyone again. He comes to a town that had been raided and burned, no sounds of screaming, only crackling flames. Looking for survivors, he comes across a home where a child girl was sitting patiently among the flames, long black hair and her eyes closed like his former angelic lover. They exchanged no words, but she walks to him with a quiet smile and takes his hand. The hero walking out of the burned village with this small girl, hand in tiny hand.

Wonder if that counts as a bad end.
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By general understanding it's really the opposite*. Bad ends come with permanent situations, perils, etc, and generally note a bleak chance of escaping that and imply they're pretty bad even if sexual 'not all bad' bad ends are definitely a thing. This is an out for hope and a future clearly expressed in the same text.

Personally, I go either way. A hopeful end, a 'bad' end, and sometimes a particularly bad end if it serves the story or leads to something else. I roleplay for several reasons, and escaping bad things in the real world is only a small part.

I can't source it, but I saw an interesting case made a while back with data once that indicated somethinglike 'people enjoy a happy ending, but people really, really enjoy an understandable ending' or something like that. Key being they enjoyed it because it told a good story, not inherently because it was sunshine and roses or even had an out for that happening. Something like Game of Thrones certainly didn't reach mass appeal by promising good ends or necessarily sensible fates for its characters that people loved. The dynamics being explored and why has a lot to do with it, and justifying a bad end.

And idk, I find the prospect of being teased by kinky spiders for the rest of my life a hot roleplay idea even if I certainly wouldn't want that to happen in real life...

*For the story overall, she really got fucked in that deal.
 
I definitely lean for happy endings (but do mingle towards the darker side at times), as I feel most people want to be left with a warm feeling than a cold dark one when finishing up a story or plot. As I see it the RPs are entertainment just like a movie or book, and the main purpose of entertainment is to be enjoyed and spark a positive reaction, which is hard to do if it were to make you feel upset when you finish it. You don't go dancing if doing so makes you mad.

However, I understand some stories want to evoke a emotion, even negative ones and for that I feel they need reason and meaning for me to want to watch them. Something to take away from the plot that isn't just 'badness' for the sake of it. The result of their endeavors needs to be understood and make sense, not necessarily that the characters are the cause of their fate but that you can understand how it got to that point. The movie 'Upgrade' has a 'bad' ending but I felt the movie stretched it's own rules to force that situation leading to me not getting any enjoyment from it.

But I guess the biggest problem I have with many bad endings is that it can just feel like slamming on the brakes of a story if not done well. It just ends, with hardly a conclusion, all the build up leading to state of pointlessness. I want to feel like the time I spent there wasn't a waste and that's where I feel the need for a meaning to the outcome makes a difference. If the plot ends and the world of the characters is the exact same as it was when it began to the point that nothing has changed, what am I supposed to take away from that story, was there message? Did the bad guys win because they were better prepared or the main hero was betrayed? What do they do now that their opposition is dead or out of the picture? I realize in reality some things don't have a definitive ending, but I guess that's what I look for in my escapism. There is the whole idea that the journey is more important than the destination, but if the character I'm following dies, then it feels like an eraser was taken to the journey.
 
Can the villain win? Yes. It's even interesting. But I don't want the main characters dead (except old age) or without any happiness.
 
RedRose said:
Can the villain win? Yes. It's even interesting. But I don't want the main characters dead (except old age) or without any happiness.
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So maybe their epic quest to stop evil ends in failure and they lose many friends and allies... but they manage to escape and live in peace somewhere else far away?

I can work with that for sure. Plus it leaves hope that our heroes may once again try to stop evil in the future.
 
My writing and roleplays tend to involve a lot of dark (see: rapey) themes. So it's not uncommon for the bad guys to win.
But I have no particular interest in deliberately fabricating the harshest possible conclusion just for its own sake; I find that often smacks of contrived "edginess." I'm in it for the exciting fantasies, not to wallow in bleakness.
 
Shiver said:
My writing and roleplays tend to involve a lot of dark (see: rapey) themes. So it's not uncommon for the bad guys to win.
But I have no particular interest in deliberately fabricating the harshest possible conclusion just for its own sake; I find that often smacks of contrived "edginess." I'm in it for the exciting fantasies, not to wallow in bleakness.
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As someone aiming for this, I don't see it as a bad end. A bad end would be for MC to kill YC, and I can't see the fun in that.
 
I don't like them, I try to aim for a pleasant ending. I mean most of the roleplays I have participated in have not been all sunshine and candy, my characters and those of my partners were put through it so to reach a conclusion where there's no positive outcome--no thanks.
 
I'm generally in favor of bad endings... but that said, I am usually playing a "bad guy" so bad endings tend to be relative.
 
I feel they are sometimes appropriate. But it doesn't mean that I want to do them all the time. I want to see our characters go off into the sunset in peace and happiness. But most seem to take bad endings as death. Sometimes a romance that doesn't work out, is a bad ending. My character comes to the realization that your character loves her, but is in love with someone else. Someone who isn't her. He moves on and tries to maintain a friendship with her. But she disconnects, and meets a decent man, but he isn't and never will be the love of her life.

That to me is a bad ending without anyone being crushed to paste and beheaded.
 
I like my main couple (and ideally my secondary couples if they exist) to end up together. Doesn't even have to be a healthy relationship, just that both of them want to be together and find it overall, satisfying
 
RedRose said:
I like my main couple (and ideally my secondary couples if they exist) to end up together. Doesn't even have to be a healthy relationship, just that both of them want to be together and find it overall, satisfying
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Unhealthy relationships but the participants want to make it work? That’s lovely stuff and my kind of writing.
 
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