The Goodman Interview - On BMR Chat, Spirituality, and Substance Addiction
AE - Cigar smoke wafts through the cozy mahogany and velvet of the lounge. High tech humidifiers were perched atop the shelves, the occasional hiss of humidified air pushed out of the contraptions the only thing breaking the serene quiet of the place. The smell of tobacco was pungent – but not in the way a puff of cigarette smoke to the face was. It was aromatic, and complex, and slightly suffocating and entirely pleasant. The lighting was dim and romantic, something a trendy bar might sport.
I was relaxing back in a burgundy, leather armchair, something so old school it seemed built more for a murder mystery than a real home. The contrast of new technology and old tradition was not lost on me, as I puff away at the beginnings of an Altar Q cigar made by Oscar Valladares. “Well this is certainly something, isn’t it? I can’t say I ever expected to write this sort of thing in this sort of place. How meta!”
Goodman - In a matching burgundy leather chair, the Goodman sits, also puffing on a stogey, looking at the length of it with an air of appreciation, even if he's an old Marlboro Man at heart. For all the avatar he wears now, he's still the old school Goodman, Odenkirk nose and weathered, raspy voice. He's wearing a bright blue silk shirt at odds with the charcoal, dark brown suit, the tie a paisley mauve number that both compliments and clashes with the vibrant blue of the shirt. Notably, he occasionally nurses a club soda.
Giving you a casual glance, amusement twitches in his lips as he loosely makes a jerking off gesture and stops. "Yeah, it sure is. Hey, you know, thanks for havin' me. I really appreciate the spotlight and all - does this count as RP’ing? I thought it significant what you said earlier, before the tapes started rolling, about us being awesome friends despite never having done. I'd hate for it to ruin something special between us, ya know?" Not that he believes it will; it's a joke. "Heh, fine, I'll stop taking us outta the immersion if you promise to never say meta again."
I took a puff of the cigar again. I never inhale the smoke – since I’d never been a cigarette smoker, holding it in my mouth and savoring the flavors was about as much as I wanted out of the experience. It complemented the Butchertown brandy I was sipping on out of a tumbler. “I’m trying to remember for the life of me how we met and I think it was solely through chat, with me making varying ‘Saul Goodman’ jokes, back when your avatar actually had anything to do with your name?"
He smirks to remember, shaking his head in defense at a passive jab about being insistently called "JOHN".
I take a sip of brandy and laughed immediately as I do so, struggling to keep the liquid down for a few seconds. “I nearly forgot about that. Feels like a lifetime ago. You will forever be John Goodman to me.” I pause and laugh again, before adding “Or Saul. Or Lionel Hutz. Or whatever dumb thing I think of on a particular week.”
I put down the glass and begin earnestly, "You used to be pretty active in chat – at least when it was brought back to the site. What kinda drew you to talk to people on the site?” I pause and took a sip of brandy, the cigar idly resting on the ashtray of the mahogany table next to my seat. “Because it’s certainly a small minority that participate from the site.”
Blowing out his cheeks briefly, he considers the question a moment before answering. "I dunno. I have always had a love-hate relationship with chat. I think back when I first started hanging out in there, the occasional fun party moments were more interesting and the people were genuinely clever and funny. You have one instance where you sit in on one of those fast-paced, fun and clever moments and you feel a second-hand high just from watching. You come back, hoping to get another glimpse, to get the rush and the laughter again. And maybe next time you think of something clever to add.
"I don't think there's anything concrete or particularly important going on in chat. And as you said, it's a small minority of folks you'll find in there. I never saw much overlap on the OOC site proper and after a few incidents watching people use the space as a place to come vent "vaguely" about current/recent bad rp experiences, I never felt like it was a good pool to draw partners from. Heaven forbid you end up the latest gossip for the entire site to read. In general. There are a few exceptions." He winks at you with a smart little nod. "It was just a nice little time waster with brief moments of actually stimulating people and meaningful-meaningless conversations."
Slyly, a crooked smile slithers onto his face and amused affection twinkles in his eyes. "If you're digging, looking for me to say you, you're the reason I got into chat, then I won't argue. I have vague memories of you badgering Wizard in a playful way that caught my eye during a contact high humorous moment. It was very close to the beginning, one of my first experiences just watching but you were definitely fun to interact with. I do remember you play-bullying me to make my avatar John Goodman from the Big Lebowski and it was fun to pretend to be hassled by your error on the identity of which "Goodman" I was. Heh."
I shake my head “I’d never ask you to compliment me. I’m quite uncomfortable with compliments and I’d prefer you to continue to pretend to hate me on all occasions. Though, I will say, my banter with JuniorWizard when I manage to get him in chat is some of the highlights of my writing career,” I punctuate with a shit-eating grin.
“Why did you join BMR? Personally, for me, I got pulled on here from a Chatzy room. Which was such a hilariously ghetto way to roleplay, particularly with how long I liked to write. There was a character limit and I’d have to break up these posts into like five-part segments. Where do you come into the BMR equation?”
"Oh, geez," he says, setting aside the fading cigar and patting his suit pockets, looking for his pack of cigarettes instead. A small thoughtful crease sits between his eyebrows as he pulls out a white and gold pack and begins tapping one end against his palm. "Well, I have always done play-by-post forum writing. Occasionally, I would be drawn onto Yahoo or MSN but it never stuck; they weren't long encounters or long stories and I hated right away being accessible on chat programs."
Lighting up the more familiar and comforting cig, he sighs a soft cloud of smoke as he continues. "If we wanna go way back, I was writing MxM fanfiction for Naruto on DeviantArt with other writers as my first online writing experiences. Just outta high school, DeviantArt was THE place to be. Not really role-play but very collaborative writing. My first actual RP experience was on the Literotica RP forums and I was lured by a partner onto Fetlife and a small adult RP forum that she and her boyfriend ran.
“I’ll interrupt for a second and say that the idea of you on DeviantArt, writing gay Naruto fanfiction is the most perfect Goodman story I’ll ever hear. And I’ll gladly tell it at the BMR funeral whenever you get tired of my stalking and delete this account.”
He huffs a laugh. "Not like I'm ashamed of it. We were all young and stupid once. It'll be a great way to commemorate all my accomplishments over a lifetime of role-play to point out I grew out of seedpods from the infectious Shonen Jump and Cartoon Network Toonami fungi."
"So, for years I was on that small forum and when it died, I hopped to Role-play Gateway about...2015? There's a very group-focused culture there, though and I already knew from previous experience that wasn't what I wanted. But for some reason, they have this huge list of boards for RP’ing with reviews and I checked out a few of them. Blue Moon was one of them."
Goodman laughs a little, lost in memory, rubbing his bottom lip with a thumb while cigarette smoke curls and drifts lazily past his face, considering how much to share. "I have always used RP as a coping mechanism. The year of 2016, I was dabbling with faith and trying to do something with my life. I went to a Christian college that had a code of conduct that prevented me from engaging in adult writing. So, I joined in the fall of 2017, right before I was set to start classes in January - I was getting a BA in English. So, the account sat dormant for a few months because I was trying to be a good boy for Jesus. But then things got stressful during the second half of my semester and falling back on the only way I knew to relieve it - scripture and prayer were not cutting it for me - I became active on BMR in May 2018. Unrelated to Blue Moon, or possibly the little taste of hedonism I got at the end of that semester, where I struggled to maintain interest in an education, I reassessed what I wanted to do for the following semester and ended up dropping out."
I pause and purse my lips. “I’ve been listening to a lot of Rhett and Link’s podcast lately, actually. They were evangelical Christian ministers, and they were detailing their sort of eventual conclusion to being agnostic – as they are today.” I pause and gathered my thoughts before continuing on, “The point is, I’ve been dissecting the idea of letting go of beliefs you at one point held to be true. In my case, it was my broken-off engagement. Which sounds silly, but they were the one. They were my everything. And I had to spend a lot of time letting go of that past that no longer existed. You don’t have to discuss your beliefs, but I guess what I’m curious to know is you coped with sort of letting go of, as you put it, ‘being a good boy for Jesus’.” I give you a grin and add “Change isn’t easy. I’ve barely done so and it’s been the hardest few years of my life.”
There is a soberness to his expression as memory comes over him, respect and understanding in his eyes. "As far as faith goes, it's one of those things that I was taught when very young, so, I think it will linger always in an agnostic sense. A "what if?" superstition that will keep me from ever completely acting as if the world doesn't operate with those rules.
"I'll be forthright and tell you that I was a member of the LDS church, or Mormons, in common vernacular. Throughout my life, I've been active and non-active as a member off and on. This last time, I was driven to faith out of fear and dysphoric anxieties. I didn't recognize it as that at the time but looking back, I can see clearly that was what it was. I know this, because as much as I gained solace from denial and repression, throwing myself into devotion instead, those same fears and anxieties came back. And when it clicked...it clicked."
He shrugs and sort of smiles at you. "My battle with faith, being a "child of God" as it were, is heavily tied with my journey through discovering my gender identity. I'm not going to go through all my collected evidence, the things I did as a child and a teenager that make sense to me now. But I will tell you that all the years I've been writing online, 15 total, I have always written from a male perspective and I have been most comfortable when my identity was male out of character. Which was a majority of the accounts I've had.
"This last time I left the faith was where those real questions started getting asked, the "who am I?" and "who do I want to be?" questions. Because if I admitted in real life what I always was, it is a kind of, I can't put the genie back in the bottle, type of thing. The LDS stance on gender identity is very firm on the idea of male and female spirits. You won't get kicked out of meetings but the idea of living as a gender you were not born is that everyone operates with the belief you'll need to give that up and repent if you want to ascend to the higher glories in the next life. "We'll love you and make you feel welcome but we all know you're going to be barred from coming with the rest of us in the next phase of existence."
He huffs another laugh but he's sad as he sighs and continues. "I'm a very genuine person. I'm not someone who can half-ass it. I can't sit there in meetings and do the rituals and go to the classes and hear the messages over and over again about repentance and progression and all of that and then go home and do whatever I want to do. I can't turn it off and compartmentalize the two. So, I can't go. I can't attend because I need to be me in order to survive. And there's not enough love and pressure from parishioners and leaders that will make me feel whole, going to bed at night, living a lie."
Coughing to clear his throat, he shifts in his seat, discomfited by his emotional response. "Letting go has been a process of loving myself and accepting my own idea of faith. I'll always hear echoes of LDS doctrine in my bones if I ever do anything blatantly or morally wrong. But this one area, I trust my own heart and the agnostic belief that God will love me for who I am or he'll be disappointed and I'll gladly accept the offering of a lower glory. I guess we'll see what He says when I get there. But I cannot live a tormented existence here. I won't."
I took a long draw of the cigar and held the smoke in my mouth a little longer than usual. When I finally exhale, it was in a glorious, cloud of smoke that wafted around my head for a few seconds, like an ashen halo. “I don’t know how many people on this site have sort of experienced your threads, whether that be your Request Thread or your Journal, but it reminded me a lot of a hoarder,” I laughed before continuing on “Like, all these ideas and so many that I’ve always wondered why your brain functions on such a higher frequency than mine. Where does all that come from, in your estimation?”
"Pfftt!" he's obviously flattered while also finding your perception amusing. "Good ole fashioned ADD. Only half-joking there; I was diagnosed when I was 6. I read a shit ton of paranormal romance and urban fantasy. Like, I'll usually read 4 books at the same time, I keep hopping between them every quarter of the page numbers until I finish them all at the same time, one right after the other. So, I read a fourth of each, then read another fourth of them(½), then read another fourth(⅓) and then another fourth and they're all finished.
"They're fine stories, fun books. But I get antsy just sitting there reading the whole way through on some of them. So, I mix it up. Well, doing that, I'm getting tons of ideas thrown at me. And my mind latches on to the small details, springing off of them. Sometimes, like, "Oh, there's a werewolf dude in this story; hey, wouldn't it be cool if I played a werewolf character and he--" or "Ohhh! I loved that funny interaction between these book characters. I want to write that with somebody; how might it work if it wasn't tied to these book characters and this scenario?" Things like that.
"I also day dream a lot. If I'm not reading or writing, I'm telling myself stories. My thing is, I don't like splitting my time up with multiple writing partners. It takes me so long to write one post because I'm very "let's take a break to read a couple chapters/do a project/clean something", so, if I had more than one story or more than one partner, with me posting just once or twice a day, you'd lose the adrenaline rush of being excited about what happens next. It'll go stale. Besides, I always play favorites and it ends up being one story, with me just hanging onto the others like, "Sure, I'll get to it when I feel like it."
"Well, there's a problem being so full of ideas that you literally think of them every free moment, yet you stay on one story for 6 -18 months at a time. Because they're good ideas or good cravings but I'm not going to remember them by the time my current partnership dwindles down and loses the fire. So, I write them down and collect them. It kind of allows me to relax and continue to enjoy my current partner and story because "It's okay. I wrote the idea down. I can still have it later on. I don't NEED to play through it right now."
“I think people who find themselves jumping between cravings too often to keep a consistent partner could find this very interesting,” I muse.
He shrugs and wrinkles his nose a little bit. "I sincerely doubt I'll ever get to all of my RP ideas or that all of those cravings will still be there for years and years. But it's nice to have a handy, organized list."
“You’ve always struck me as kinda suave, in that dangerous way. That sort of ‘if this man led a cult, I’d get roped in somehow and only partially regret it.’ Is that something that translates past sort of written communication? I ask because I think people on these sites, myself included somewhat, are sometimes so fundamentally different in different settings, and I’m curious to learn your perspective.” I ash my cigar, a large chunk of burnt tobacco falling into the ashtray.
He hesitates, huffing a soft laugh, again flattered, not wanting to relieve you of your delusions but trying to be as honest as the interview allows. "I'm actually a really big dork offline. Like, I'm a handy man but also, people groan at this point when I start a sentence, "So, I'm reading this book…" simply because I always talk about books and reading to anyone who'll listen.
“For me, that sentence that people groan at is ‘Guess what I learned today…’ Apparently, my friends aren’t nearly as interested in the 1992 election as I am,” I add, taking a short puff of the cigar.
"I've also been described as a sunshine person. Like, I draw folks in with an easy going manner and charm but you'll feel the loss of it when the clouds come out. Tch, I would not term myself as suave or a cult leader. I'd be the friend with you at the mall, a gal comes up to us with pamphlets, talking in a sickeningly placid voice, eyes just a little too "yard-long stare", using arcane buzzwords and I turn to you like genuinely excited, "Sounds legit!" You'd have to keep your eye on me, like, "Andy, no… "
"I intentionally foster an air of restraint online, letting my goofy side out occasionally, and keeping my anxiety and insecurities hidden as best I can. So, you are left with the charming parts, the humorous comedian. I don't know where you're getting the dangerous from." He's smirking though as he takes a long drag from the cig.
I cross my legs and slump back in the chair a little, the potent mix of alcohol and nicotine working wonders on my nerves. “I can’t quantify this with any statistics, but overwhelmingly I get the sense that people struggle with finding partners. Whether that be ghosting, compatibility or just getting interest in their Request Thread. I mean, I see some variant of how to fix these problems on the Question thread whenever I delve into it. You, however, as long as I have known you, have always seemed to be quite preoccupied with roleplay and that has never seemed to be a problem you’ve suffered from. Let’s pretend this is like some shitty Glamour article. What are your secrets?”
"My secrets? I'm not sure if it'll be useful to anyone. Like, one of the big things that has lent to my success with getting and keeping partners over the years has been the fact that I have common kinks, nothing weird or extreme, and I focus on story mixed with smut. The folks I've seen have trouble on adult sites are those unwilling to compromise away from kinks that are very niche, like feet, giantism, or wanting a female domme x male sub. It's fine to know what you crave and to hunt only for that but I am baffled by some of those folks not acknowledging that their kinks are unpopular. Like, they complain about a lack of partners as if they assume they should be getting droves of people knocking on their DMs for ball crushing.
"And I like to think places like Blue Moon can cater to all kinds, all strengths, and all styles of writing. The fact of the matter is, play by post RP is made for longer writing. Chat programs are more for those quick one shots where the focus is on the smut. I don't like gatekeeping or telling folks they need to rp this or that way. But the majority of forum RP’ers are looking for their smut mixed with story. I mean, want what you want, go for it, but just realize advertising on play by post forums, the majority want a reason for the sex to happen and they want to play a character outside of the bedroom scenes.
"If I were to try to be more broadly helpful, my secret is that I don't complain and whine about my failures or insecurities on the forum. I control other people's perception of me the best that I can. I don't really complain anyway but if I felt the need to, if I absolutely had to get the bad thoughts out and let everyone know how awful I think I am, I wouldn't shit where I eat. Every post on the forum is an advertisement. Most people check a person's old posts before they agree to talks over RP and ideas. You could have someone totally interested and excited about your RT but then they go to read through your old posts and you're shitting on yourself, whining in this bitter entitled tone as if you deserve partners just for feeling sad… Nobody is gonna give you a pity partnership and so, nobody is reading that going, "Sure! Sign me up! They sound so fun and friendly!"
“And I’ll add from a chat perspective, the thing that kills conversation the most is when people talk about their personal problems. And I certainly understand the instinct to want assurance and comfort, but at the same time, to be blunt, wanting pity isn’t attractive.” I paus and add “Which is by no means me discouraging people from talking about their problems – but I would encourage them to do it in an appropriate setting with people they trust.”
He nods and agrees. "Sometimes, I feel like maybe I got it wrong, that I'm the one who doesn't know what chat is for. Because I get real "grumpy dad" about "I'm bored" or "It's quiet in here." Maybe I'm the one expecting too much out of chat when I lurk in the room waiting quietly until I have something valuable to add or something worthy of sharing. You know...thinking of it as a conversation I feed in order to keep alive, rather than simply smacking the box, trying to get it to entertain me.
"So, when people overshare in chat, I wonder if I've got it wrong. Like, here I am, thinking, "The chat box is open on the site as default, so almost all 200 members online right now can randomly see this and could be reading this" or thinking of it as this super chill and casual medium. But in reality, maybe I'm trying to impose my view on them. The older I get the more I doubt whether I have all the answers from experience or if it simply means I'm out of date. Maybe chat box works differently for those crazy kids nowadays. Who am I to shit on their fun and "get off my lawn!" Because, let's be honest, I'd rather chat be dead and silent than to glance in there and have it full of everyone saying "hello" or "I killed chat" when they added nothing of value or anything stimulating enough to respond to."
"Don't put warnings in your RTs. Don't threaten prospective partners in your RTs. Don't cry in your journal or admit that nobody likes you. It's not likable, it's not relatable. It's the type of person you avoid because they look unpleasant and they're a huge downer. If you absolutely HAVE to do that on Blue Moon, make a burner account. You can have 5 alts on Blue Moon. Use one of them as a trash vent account where you do all your crying and woe is me crap and keep your RP and advertising account clean of all negativity.
"I don't have another account. I mostly vent to my family offline about things that bug me or are getting me down. But most of the time, I try to foster within myself a belief that I am awesome and a joy to be around.
“For the record, you ARE awesome and a joy to be around, for anyone who hasn’t had the pleasure,” I add before returning to nursing my cigar.
And I treat each interaction as if THIS could be another great, epic partnership. If you enter the conversation, dreading them leaving you, they will. If you enter the conversation worried they'll see through you and realize you're lame and dull, they will. You gotta hunt for the positives, even if optimism feels phony to you. At first, if you've been feeding into the insecurities for a long time, positivity will feel false and you'll feel self-conscious. Just at first. Keep going. Keep feeding into the "I'm a fun guy. I like me." basket. Soon, you'll have so much invested in it, it'll be who you really are.
"I know, it sounds really corny but so many times my heart breaks for folks I see complaining and whining in these threads. Like, they're shooting themselves in the foot and asking you why they're limping through life." He shrugs and rolls his eyes and mutters something about leading horses to water as he grinds the cig into the ash tray.
Brandy volume at this point is becoming a serious issue, and I leave my seat to walk over to the little bar to top off my glass. I continue talking as I walk “Everyone’s had sort of horror stories on this site. Whether that be a particularly creepy thread exchange, or a request thread that rubbed them the wrong way. That sort of thing. I don’t want you to call anyone out, obviously,” I add with a smile, before turning my attention back to uncorking the brandy and pouring. “So without being specific, what was the worst one like for you?” I walk back over and slump in the chair once again, returning to tend to my cigar before it stops burning.
Goodman quirks his lips, contemplating telling you something but finally shakes his head. "It was genuine heart break. I don't like to kiss and tell because I find it paints bad pictures and creates factions and cliques where "he said, she said" is the dividing line. Nobody else believes in that philosophy though. Heh."
“No, I understand. There’s a fine line between being open, and attacking people. I’ve been there with heartbreak, though knowing you and your tendencies, I doubt it was as substantial. But I know there are people on this site who can relate.”
“I want to be a little more positive, before I go back into some of the more negative subjects. This site has had a lot of impact on me, personally, and in positive ways. Has it had any positive effects on you? Besides the glib, sort of “I love the community and all that.”
"Uhm. Hm. Well, it was a good place to be for a while during a hard-transitional self-discovery part of my life. More and more though, I'm drawn to the brighter and more moderated Elliquiy. I come here now like a man who's moved on to a better relationship, trying to have a decent conversation with the ex-girlfriend. Sometimes, like now, and with a few others I cherish on this site, I feel like it's memories of the good old times, seeing shades in her now of who we were together, how happy we were. Then other times, she reminds me harshly why we broke up, why I can't stand to be in the same room with her for long. I don't have rose colored glasses about Blue Moon like some have. I've seen "other people" since we "broke up" and in those times when she treats me badly, I recognize I deserve better, because I've been with better and I leave."
He rolls his eyes at himself and the tired metaphor and sort of laughs. "Wow. That wasn't very positive, was it? I guess, if I had to pinpoint something positive about it, there are folks here that I still come back just to talk to. Friendships I made that I didn't get anywhere else."
“I don’t think anything exists as a fixture. Like everything in life, people and places might only be good for you at certain points in your life. I’m glad you come around now and then for the people you like – but I understand why BMR might not be the place for you right now,” I say, swirling the tumbler as I talked.
I take a long puff from the cigar. At this point, it had burned down a good portion of the way, and my intake was growing less and less frequent as my appetite for nicotine was more and more sated. “Blue Moon is certainly an evolving site. I remember the days when private messages had these long messes of quoted text that were a constant nuisance. Some of my older conversations I dread looking back on for that very reason. If someone lost their mind and gave you any sort of power, what would you change about the site, mechanically speaking? We can talk about community-wise in a little bit.”
He blinks for a moment, pursing his lips at you as if something slightly unfair just happened. "Wait...why would they have had to lose their minds?"
“Because you’re the kind of person who would immediately let power go to your head. And I say that from the perspective that if I was ever given power, people would seriously have to be out of their minds,” I add with a laugh.
Moving on with a chuckle, he says, "Well, one of the sites I was on while I was gone, had the Xenoforo "like" system in place. And it completely changed my mind about it. Often, the like system is rejected out of hand, we don't even have new conversations about it, just a complete shut-down with the assertion that it'd turn into a "popularity contest." This was not so on the forum I was on.
"They had a variety of like options at the bottom of every post and PM, things like "like", "creative", "informative", "helpful", etc. that added to overall totals of "likes given" and "likes earned." There was one negative on the little list, a red "x" that meant "disagree" and it could only be used on one forum, the main general topic board. All other forums and subforums, the disagree option was not available on the list of likes. If we did it here, I'd make the Blue Moon Academy the only one with the disagree option available since those seem more discussions with opinions and debates.
"It was not a popularity contest because the culture of the forum was to be very free with giving likes. Like, it got to the point where you kind of zoned out the notification window because you'd just get so many all the time. And nobody paid attention to how many likes someone had because within just three months being there, I had almost 2,000. But I loved the feedback and the ability to give feedback without having to type up a full, thoughtful response. You could laugh at someone's funny post without wasting a post on "Lol" you know?
"I think this place is very feral orphanage sometimes. Like, food placed on the table and everybody grabs at the food, scrambling to stuff their face first. I don't feel loyalty here and it is hard to feel connected sometimes. If I had the power to make changes, I'd add a like system that helped people feel involved, helped people be more social and positive without worrying too much about themselves. Give likes, make someone's day with this effortless compliment."
“This is as personal as I want to get here, for obvious reasons. I’ve been struggling with a bipolar diagnosis. It’s sort of been this crazy rollercoaster of hell for me. I know you’ve had your own problems with addictive substances, as you mention in your thread. Can we talk about that a little bit? I think it’s nice to sort of give a voice to people going through things like that. In my experience with my own struggles, the worst feeling is that you’re alone in a struggle, and the worst thing you can do is keep it quiet. So, I guess what would you share about the experience for anyone going through it, or knowing someone who is?”
He grimaces to himself, kind of leery of the question. "I don't know. Because I'm really not someone to go to for advice on this. Some days I'm totally spouting the lines, one day at a time, it works if you work it, it's the journey, etc. Other days, I feel tied to the addiction, like it's my destiny. Like it's a part of me and always gonna be with me. Almost like I lighten my load a little, telling myself it's okay to fall off the wagon if I just get back on right after. I keep doing it. I mean, yeah, I am 4 months sober now but before that it was almost once a month, restart.
"We probably won't include this in the main interview, or I don't know, maybe a bit of honesty would be good. Honestly, I would be drinking now if I had the money and if people left the house sometimes. Nobody in my family is working including me, so, there's not a good time to get hammered. Not without them noticing and boy would I be in a mess if they found me like that. Just to avoid the headache, I don't give in to the urge to go out and buy a cheap bottle of Wild Turkey. Sorry. I know that's not what you wanna hear."
He shrugs, rubbing the back of his neck. "And it's not a depression thing or even really a stress thing. I'm not like, "Ugh! The world is shit! I just need a drink!" I just really like getting wasted. I like that burn in my mouth, in my throat. It's a fun feeling that I can't seem to get away from."
“For the record, I think we should keep this in. And I’ll give a couple of reasons. I was talking to my doctor about meds, and he told me the number one reason bipolar goes untreated is because people stop taking their meds. The hardest thing about treating the disease is people sticking to the treatment.” I pause and add, “ Craig Ferguson was talking about his troubles with addiction and he acknowledged the same thing as you – a desire to want to drink, just out of wanting it.”
I take a breath “A part of me does not want to take medication. Honestly, a part of me is still like ‘You don’t have bipolar, if you could just handle your emotions you’d be fine. Stop whining and looking for help.’ I do it because I can’t be a skeleton for the people around me. I can’t be this vibrant and amazing person for a week or two, and then disappear into this depressive shell for sometimes months. It just hurts people more than I’m comfortable with.”
“But my point is this. I think we should keep this in. Because controlling addiction isn’t glamorous. It’s not a switch, Goodman. I’ve never met a person who just flipped and said ‘Right, my desire to drink is gone and I’m fully committed to all these ideas.’ You know, I think that’s movie ending bullshit. I have no idea how many people will actually read this, but if anyone does who is going through the same thing, I think it’s nice to see how human the struggle is. The battle isn’t with the actual alcohol, it’s within yourself. And, honestly, the thing I respect most about you is how honest you’ve been with your struggle. You don’t lie to come off like some superhero. You’re honest and you show the turmoil. And that means a lot to me, from someone who is constantly embroiled in turmoil.”
He smiles warmly at you, connected to you in this moment over a shared understanding of these limitations and the need for help outside of ourselves. Notably, he tips his glass of bubbly club soda and takes a drink.
"Well, I thank you for being so supportive and understanding. I can't admit for a moment to my friends and family that I just want to fuck off and release responsibility. I have before, a couple times, and it comes across as this portent of doom. It's instantly a problem to fix, that sort of thinking needs to be snuffed out and battled against. And it's partly that they don't understand, like that the addiction will always be in there, talking to me, talking over me. I guess I just have this trigger response now anytime I even admit to feeling like I don't want to be 100% better, where I feel obligated to apologize and villainize that type of thinking to save face or dull the impact of it. Because if you're not seen battling against it every time, it comes across as a betrayal to those cheering you on.
"So, I am grateful that at least here, I can release the tension and at least say it in black and white: if I could, if I were alone, left to my own devices, I'd like to find comfort and fun in the bottom of a bottle. And I don't have to shuffle in an apology, an ingenuine, "Just kidding!" right after."
My cigar is now a smoldering butt, little wisps of smoke coming off it as it rests precariously on the end of the ashtray. “Let’s end on something a little more positive. You’ve had your struggles, like anyone else. But you’ve always been a source of light and humor and positivity for me. And that’s not something I say lightly – especially in the hard times, I’ve found a lot of people just haven’t been that for me. What do you think has led you to sort of embracing this? You’re laid back, charming, quick-witted, and generally a positive guy. Not everyone goes through hard times and comes out that way. What do you think got you to embrace that sort of mental space?”
"I'm very practical. I don't like to just sit here being sad or anxious. I have my moments. But I don't like getting swallowed. I like solutions. We'll give it a time to be gloomy and sad but then I hit a point where it's time to work on fixing the issue to make it stop. I try to worry about what I can do, what my options are, and keep my head up looking for opportunities.
"I dunno, I get intolerable for even me to be around when a bad mood latches onto me too long. I spend a lot of time alone, so, I gotta keep myself being a fun guy to be around. For my own sake."
“I’ve steered this a lot, and I’m grateful for you indulging me. Is there anything you want to add? Or ask?”
Goodman gets thoughtful for a moment, rubbing his chin in exaggeration. "I am curious what you hope to get by doing this. Like, the ideal response to this would be…?" He motions with his hand for you to fill in the blank.
I take a long pause, considering my words carefully. I rub my eyes and give you a weary smile. “You know this story, if I remember correctly. I was engaged, that thing imploded spectacularly around the same time my bipolar symptoms started getting severe. So, I was in this constant state of emotional turmoil for two straight years, sometimes from legitimate feelings and sometimes from chemical imbalances. And it was like I was losing my mind.”
I pause and idly fidget with the tumbler, though I don’t take a sip. “I felt so desperately alone. Not in a romantic or friend sense. I’ve always had a few good friends. It more felt like I was alone in these struggles – like I was the only one fucking this up and not being able to get my shit together. I imagine you’ve felt the same way before – ‘Why can’t I just figure this all out and have my shit together like a normal person.’"
He nods with a small crooked smile, his own eyes thoughtful, remembering. "And I know that no one has their shit together, I knew that then too. But, I don’t know, I’d express these feelings to friends and they’d just nod politely and try and understand and just not get it.”
I give you a faint smile. “My RT has like 6,000 views off like a dozen bumps or so. That’s insane and I’m glad people glanced at my rambling 6,000 different times. That’s not what this is about. I can’t imagine this will be popular – if it is, that’s great. But if it only gets like three views, I’d be fine with that if one of those people reads one of these interviews and feels less alone in the world. One of the beautiful things about a place like this is that it doesn’t discriminate. So we have this selection of people from all over the world with all sorts of different experiences. And if they can find comfort in one story that helps them with their own, I think this will have been a success. This isn’t a pity thing, either. I speak for myself, but I don’t want pity. I want to try and help others with whatever I’ve went through.”
I pause and laugh, “Hell, I also just want an excuse to talk to people I like. Thanks for doing this Goodman. You’re a wonderful and genuine person and I was so lucky to bother you all of those years ago into being a friend.”
His grin widens, even as it becomes a mixture of wry and tender. Lifting his glass, he cheers the air with the last dregs of his bubbly soda. "Well, it's as noble a goal as any. Nothing is ever truly, 100% altruistic, and I had those same thoughts as I considered just shutting you up with jokes and not answering a couple of these. That struggle between ego and ego, like it'd be worth it to be publicly vulnerable for just a minute.
"I'm really glad you asked me and I'm really glad you charmed me with your playful antagonism."
With a raspy sigh, he sets aside the little glass of club soda, rubbing his hands together eagerly, a fire burning in his eyes and all tenderness gone as he reaches for a small leather case. "Now. About that legal issue you wanted to talk about... What did you say when the Feds came by?" He glances up and smirks ruefully as he shakes his head chidingly at you, tsking his tongue while continuing to rifle through his paperwork with quickly moving fingers. "What have I always told you? "Deny, deny, deny." It's all, "I'm not sure," "I don't know," or "I can't remember." Uh....we should probably turn the tapes off for this part. Heh."
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