Being Honest Online

LadyLarunai said:

I think one of the biggest issues is it can make people question their sexuality.. I don't know why though its just a game, but i guess people trust and fall for others so easily that anything that makes them question what they think is set in stone is a threat.

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I never thought about that part of it. When I first started playing an MMO, I made male characters because my real life male friend had female characters. I don't see that as deceiving anyone, anymore than if I made a troll people should think I'm really a troll. However, I was fascinated by the interactions I had with other people. Girls flirted with me, and I'd play along a bit (given that playing along is kinda what you do in a roleplaying game). Then I'd whisper that I'm really a girl, and they'd sometimes get mad. I assumed that was because they had wasted their time, but now reading what you wrote I do wonder.

I could write a lot about how people treated me differently, or even more weird, how I felt differently, but that would be another topic.

As far as RPing something you are not on Blue Moon, and lying about it, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I think, if you are convincing, why should I care? It's fiction. On the other hand, I like to have some kind of idea of how the story is affecting you, so I don't like the idea of you pretending to be into something you aren't.

Also, what if I insult you unknowingly? What if you tell me you have brown eyes and are uncut and I gush about how I love that and hurt your feelings? That idea horrifies me.

LadyLarunai said:

I think one of the biggest issues is it can make people question their sexuality.. I don't know why though its just a game, but i guess people trust and fall for others so easily that anything that makes them question what they think is set in stone is a threat.

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That is a serious problem I have often encountered whenever I've lied about my gender outside of the rp and on the forums. Even if the only thing I lie about is my gender, people fall head over heels for a compliment given here and there. I've never been a predatory person, never made anybody do anything against their will or even taken advantage while in the midst of a ruse. But it is so fucking scary how willing some people are to give their hearts and bodies away to someone they can't even see. Even through a ruse, I myself have gotten attached and felt fond of those I interacted with and even as I told them stories and kept my real self distant from them, I felt defensive and protective of them because of how loose they ran with their information and their hearts. It should not be that easy...

I consider it a dangerous problem and although I myself have done nothing more than broken hearts with my lies, there are others out there far more sadistic and cruel than I. As much as I would love an online world where we could all be honest about who we are and accepted no matter what and not feel the threat of danger or the threat of masks, that is not the case. Maybe people need to be a bit more wary when they go about. Expecting truth should not be the automatic default because I, while in the midst of pretending, have gotten so very close to people in just a month or two, to the point where they were ready and willing to meet and talk on the phone!

Lily2988 said:

I never thought about that part of it. When I first started playing an MMO, I made male characters because my real life male friend had female characters. I don't see that as deceiving anyone, anymore than if I made a troll people should think I'm really a troll. However, I was fascinated by the interactions I had with other people. Girls flirted with me, and I'd play along a bit (given that playing along is kinda what you do in a roleplaying game). Then I'd whisper that I'm really a girl, and they'd sometimes get mad. I assumed that was because they had wasted their time, but now reading what you wrote I do wonder.

I could write a lot about how people treated me differently, or even more weird, how I felt differently, but that would be another topic.

As far as RPing something you are not on Blue Moon, and lying about it, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I think, if you are convincing, why should I care? It's fiction. On the other hand, I like to have some kind of idea of how the story is affecting you, so I don't like the idea of you pretending to be into something you aren't.

Also, what if I insult you unknowingly? What if you tell me you have brown eyes and are uncut and I gush about how I love that and hurt your feelings? That idea horrifies me.

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I will not defend what I did while in the midst of lies. It makes me feel sick, that part of it, whenever I think back over how I betrayed and wounded people. But the part that was the thrill for me was not the "getting one over" on someone but more how it felt to be treated and talked to as that gender. Living a sort of fantasy being accepted for what I said I was, playing the part and throwing myself into it, wearing it as a skin. I feel bad now that I used people for the gratification of that desire but it is definitely something to be brought up in the discussion. Lying to people isn't always about the victimization or the power-trip. For some people it is literally living the life of a role-play, where with no pretext of writing a story, someone accepts you as (insert gender) and you play it believably, so you both feel and accept you as that gender.

Being honest...

For me, I guess it doesn't matter to me if someone is 'pretending' to be someone else online. But they should fully know the price they might pay in the end. For example...

When I was younger and roleplayed on Gaia, I found there was a lot of girls and not a lot of guys. And most of the girls wanted to roleplay girls, but wanted a guy to roleplay with them... as the guy. So I thought it might be in my best interest to make a male avatar, come up with a name, age blah blah blah. I basically created a false life so I could roleplay with this other females. They never knew and most of them never found out. But eventually it did catch up to me. I had joined a group roleplay where I met this one girl that I started to fall for. We would chat on the side and after several months of going back and forth, I was in love with this girl, and it almost seemed that she had feelings for me too... So I had to make things right and tell her who I was. I explained to her that everything I told her was true besides my name, age and... gender. =/

At first she was silence. But soon she responded and said it was okay. We remained friends, but the connection was lost. She came to visit me in real life with her friends and we had a good time, but nothing ever could repair the damage done.

You never expect to make connections like that when you are pretending to be someone else. You are just being that other person to make ends meet, get what you need or want. But out of the blue, when you least expect it, you make a connection and it is hard to make that connection a 'real' one. It is based on lies... so you can imagine the disappointment.

People who have committed this act might be more forgiving than those who haven't and laid their life out on the line, but ultimately, there is still that betrayal.

One story I experienced was I had been talking to this woman on another website and ultimately we were looking for two separate things, so we were due to part ways, but she had developed a liking for me so she gave me a 'friend of hers' screen name and said we might hit it off because he was looking for what I was. So I reached out to this person, but I had noticed some strikingly similar habits and traits between the two and finally confronted 'them'. It was indeed the same person who attempted to make things right, but it just didn't go over as he had hoped. It still hurts me to think about the betrayal beforehand. Granted I did establish a strong connection with the guy in the end. But that thought still lingers. I only thought it would be fair though to forgive him considering I had done something similar in my past.

There is a lot to consider when you pretend to be someone else. Whether it is you bending the truth about some parts of yourself, or the entire story... If you are planning to connect with people, just know your connection will never be real... And if you do come out and be honest, know the damage is already been done. =/

Thank you for the insight, Clover, although this thread wasn't created with the intent to endorse or recommend faking personas and lying to people online, the personal experience shared is appreciated. I have to admit that I myself have more stories for doing the thing rather than it being done to me, as it took me several times to finally learn my lesson and stop. The one that did it was like you described, someone I felt myself get close to without meaning to. I also empathize with the fact that after revealing the truth... there really isn't anything that will mend that bond or make it like it used to be.

On the other side, the relationships I've made since then, based on who I really am and being truthful, have been so much more rewarding. But I wasn't handing out information about myself like candy and I was friends with this person on Facebook and trading Christmas presents way before actually going to meet them in real life.

I guess the easiest way for me to explain my stance on honesty on the internet is to explain myself and my reasons honestly.

Lady
26
MtF Transgender (I don't like gender but it's the most common)

I have experienced things for at least a few years on both sides, but the reason I keep this a secret is not self confidence, it is just that I find it hard to trust others especially on the internet, in this world you are judged on and seen by many things, the majority see you for your birth sex, some see you for only your parts and the rest see you as you.

As a guy the majority of people I met both male and female were of the first category, Many find it weird for a guy to roleplay a female, sexual or not, in times pre change and early on voice is a dead give away and you are often treated as lying to or deceiving people if your voice is an issue or seen as weird if you are just having fun.

As a girl I never had as much trouble as I avoided voice but a similar weird distrust lingered, generally other people are more trusting but always expected something in return but if I played a male character less was always expected there was never anything people wanted me to prove.

Usually the people in the first category judge by the parts you have or have had, there are few that don't and a few that only want you because of those parts, the ones I have met that do not care have grown the more I have come to be myself and be less of an in between

For some people it is just safer to hide behind a don't ask don't tell curtain

The thing that spurred this was Dogged for the most part but Lily posed an interesting dilemma, I cant honestly say what hurts more, insults on purpose, by accident or out of carelessness, each hurts in a different way.

Dogged said:

In the end, I think honesty online comes down to self-esteem. If you are comfortable in your sexuality and gender, you will continue to rp creatively, regardless of your gender behind the screen. When one is dishonest in their RP gender to purposely harm others or play mind games this is strongly linked to attention seeking behavior formed by a low self-esteem.

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I wanted to touch base on this a little bit. I don't necessarily believe the honesty comes down to self esteem. Whenever I was 'pretending' to be a guy, it wasn't because I had a low self esteem, because I had always thought rather highly of myself, but not in a snooty manner. I have always been proud of who I am. I simply pretended to be a guy so I could have more roleplaying opportunities.

But I will agree, when it is used to purposely harm others, there is something psychologically wrong with the person. =/

It was never my intentions to hurt anyone or even get close to anyone. I just wanted to roleplay more and all the female roles had been taken. D:

Thankfully, I don't do that anymore. I pretty much put it out on the line that I am who I am and I'm not looking for anything another person to roleplay with. ._.
In the end, there is no drama with being who you are.

Rudolph Quin said:

Thank you for the insight, Clover, although this thread wasn't created with the intent to endorse or recommend faking personas and lying to people online,....

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Lol, I would hope not. I didn't mean to come across that way. Just making statements.

Rudolph Quin said:

I will not defend what I did while in the midst of lies. It makes me feel sick, that part of it, whenever I think back over how I betrayed and wounded people. But the part that was the thrill for me was not the "getting one over" on someone but more how it felt to be treated and talked to as that gender. Living a sort of fantasy being accepted for what I said I was, playing the part and throwing myself into it, wearing it as a skin. I feel bad now that I used people for the gratification of that desire but it is definitely something to be brought up in the discussion. Lying to people isn't always about the victimization or the power-trip. For some people it is literally living the life of a role-play, where with no pretext of writing a story, someone accepts you as (insert gender) and you play it believably, so you both feel and accept you as that gender.

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I have mixed feelings about this. To some extent I feel like if you want your persona to be the opposite gender online, then you should be free to. Online or offline, it's really no one's business what's in your pants, unless you are getting very intimate with them. Online, all we deal with is a person's personality. We all have different personalities for different situations, to some extent. That doesn't mean they aren't real.

On the other hand, having been lied to and had my head fucked with badly in a previous offline situation, I'm really sensitive about dishonesty, and definitely would react negatively to finding out someone was telling me things that are not strictly true.

No easy answers here, not for me.

Lady,
May I acknowledge the courage it takes to stand up and allow yourself to be judged? Incredible kudos to you. I've grown used to referring to my woman as 'my honey, sweetie, fiance and lover' trying to avoid the much loathed 'dike' label. It took me until I was 37 to finally just accept myself for who I am.

While I can't say I know what you're personally going through, I -do- empathize with the amount of courage it takes in this world to accept yourself for ALL of who you are, not what you aren't. Would you be offended if I thanked you for your honesty? Because I admire you right now, very much!

Honesty is a tricky subject online and off, and as such, subjective to so many perspectives. Just look at all the viewpoints expressed in this one thread. How many are reading the posts who have yet another opinion? BMR continues to amaze me more everyday for its sheer open-minded sense of community.

*sneaks in a hug to Lady*

LadyLarunai said:

I guess the easiest way for me to explain my stance on honesty on the internet is to explain myself and my reasons honestly.

Lady
26
MtF Transgender (I don't like gender but it's the most common)

I have experienced things for at least a few years on both sides, but the reason I keep this a secret is not self confidence, it is just that I find it hard to trust others especially on the internet, in this world you are judged on and seen by many things, the majority see you for your birth sex, some see you for only your parts and the rest see you as you.

As a guy the majority of people I met both male and female were of the first category, Many find it weird for a guy to roleplay a female, sexual or not, in times pre change and early on voice is a dead give away and you are often treated as lying to or deceiving people if your voice is an issue or seen as weird if you are just having fun.

As a girl I never had as much trouble as I avoided voice but a similar weird distrust lingered, generally other people are more trusting but always expected something in return but if I played a male character less was always expected there was never anything people wanted me to prove.

Usually the people in the first category judge by the parts you have or have had, there are few that don't and a few that only want you because of those parts, the ones I have met that do not care have grown the more I have come to be myself and be less of an in between

For some people it is just safer to hide behind a don't ask don't tell curtain

The thing that spurred this was Dogged for the most part but Lily posed an interesting dilemma, I cant honestly say what hurts more, insults on purpose, by accident or out of carelessness, each hurts in a different way.

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Dogged said:

Lady,
May I acknowledge the courage it takes to stand up and allow yourself to be judged? Incredible kudos to you. I've grown used to referring to my woman as 'my honey, sweetie, fiance and lover' trying to avoid the much loathed 'dike' label. It took me until I was 37 to finally just accept myself for who I am.

While I can't say I know what you're personally going through, I -do- empathize with the amount of courage it takes in this world to accept yourself for ALL of who you are, not what you aren't. Would you be offended if I thanked you for your honesty? Because I admire you right now, very much!

Honesty is a tricky subject online and off, and as such, subjective to so many perspectives. Just look at all the viewpoints expressed in this one thread. How many are reading the posts who have yet another opinion? BMR continues to amaze me more everyday for its sheer open-minded sense of community.

*sneaks in a hug to Lady*

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No offence taken, at this point it was somewhat easier to do this as the list of who knows was getting longer than those who do not and I cant be bothered making a list, I am also terrible at secrets XD.

Never understood the "dike/dyke?" thing, I suppose it is like every label, some run from them while others cling to them for safety and self assurance, I know some that wear the label proudly, some that hide behind it, some that see it as some kind or patriarchal oppression and others that just don't care, people are weird things.

You are right though, this community does have an interesting air to it that others I have entered do not, there are a few things that people seem to have set rules for but there seems to be no right or wrong way to live here, there are cases on other forums where I have partaken, in what you would assume is and open minded community that there is still a right and wrong way to be.

*Hugs in return*

Been going back and forth on replying to this thread...

I think you should be honest, always. Omission is lying too. If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Privacy is an outmoded concept.

I'm in the minority here, but absolute truth is important to me, as my mind finds ways to twist grey areas. If I am not dedicated to truth, I'll lie eventually.

Of course, some people I choose to lie to, but at that point it's for a purpose, a person I don't mind pissing off, and I have a set plan for what I hope to accomplish by lying.

At the risk of stirring things up, I don't think it is about the level of honesty just of the player who pretended to be the other gender. I think it goes to the deep rooted reality that we have that bullshit double standard that one gender is easy to read while the other is so "mysterious and complex" I know not everyone subscribes to that, but as someone who has role-played against gender in table-top experiences, I have found that to be the case. Agreed and admitted, it has made some guys uncomfortable (even when I have not had my character have any "relations" with male charries in game), I have found more often than not that I have actually been accused of "basing her on me" by women in the gaming group when nothing could have been farther from the truth.

I am not trying to go off topic, rather I am very much on topic when it comes to this kind of honesty, as I have found even when you are honest, someone gets upset. I am not exclusively putting this on one gender, as I have female gamer friends who rp as male who have gotten this as well. Perhaps it is my background and all, but I find that the reason for the "dishonesty" is self-defense from people who obviously read more into things than they should. As someone who gets that a lot, and accused of it a lit by those who are really doing it, I think that is ridiculous. Being threatened in a sexuality level (gender wise) about someone who understands you enough to play your gender or the other gender as the case may be... that is completely ridiculous.

I also, to be honest, have never been offended when a really good rp partner has "come out" and confessed they were really male playing female either. This may have come from my upbringing and experience, but again, it goes to what I feel is more self-deception than deliberate lying. Pretending you are "so complex" or "so astute" just is a lie. Being honest, to be honest, starts with one's self, especially online. Do I think I am being lied to every time I talk to someone online? No, but I also don't discount it is possible. I am not saying lying is okay, nor that getting upset about being lied to is not okay, rather I am saying that you need not pretend that the truth is WE ALL DO IT.

What did you not tell them about your current relationship? What did you make more predominant about that conversation you shared? How often have you told the same story just changed around what was said and by whom? How many times did you base your reaction on that person you are trying to emulate or quietly diss? This are all possibly things that creep into how we behave online. I am NOT VALIDATING OR VINDICATING ANYONE, as nothing still is a raw wound for me as what happened in the case of Megan Meier when Lori Drew did what she did. YES I went there, because that is the level of extreme that is out there. I don't think that will happen, but I don't ignore the reality.

Again, at the risk of getting who knows what reactions for what I say here, I am sick of all of that. Being oneself is hard enough, and to be honest, BEING ATTACKED FOR BEING ONESELF IS WHY GOOD PEOPLE LIE ONLINE. I don't believe for one second anyone here does that, though I could be wrong. I am just saying this: start by not treating those who have immediately like shit and ask why. Don't judge and don't condemn till you have the entire story, especially when you "get it from someone they hurt". NO ONE LIES MORE HURTFULLY OR SPITEFULLY LIKE SOMEONE IN PAIN. Pause and take into account how little you yourself know the person who you got it from, and THEN proceed with things.

"By the same measure of judgement you will be judged" It really is THAT SIMPLE.

When I first joined here I started playing with a person who had "Undisclosed" as their gender, they were playing a female and really only played females so I assumed they were probably a male based on that alone, anyway, they were a very good RP'er and after a few posts and chats I asked them if they were M or F, they were honest and said M. I didn't feel lied to as they had at least filled out something on gender that gave me an idea for lack of a better word.

As this topic has mostly been about whether a gamer is Male or Female and which gender they play online as a basis for their honesty, how much do you expect to know about your RP partner? What if they are 50 and yet state their age is 20? Would you still feel lied to even though the person might just be trying to fit in with the mostly younger crowd? Would you even stop to suspect they aren't their stated age? Does it matter?

What if a Japanese person is playing Africans? Or a European playing Geisha girls? Does that still matter? Do you want to know their real race?

What of all the rape and extreme RP's, do you need a criminal record check of your partner? A psych analysis? To ensure they are really just playing and not practicing?

My point is honesty is relevant to the situation, how many times have you told someone you are "OK" when they ask how you are even though you might be in a depression? Saying "OK" is my default answer to that question regardless of my mood.

I also agree with Ruphhausin above, generally people lie because they have been hurt or rejected in some way in real life, so they get online maybe post a fake pic or pretend to be the opposite gender and they get to escape and relate to people in a different way, maybe due to people thinking they are good looking they all of a sudden find themselves being listened to and relating to people in a way they never could in real life. Yes, it's dishonest but if they find themselves constantly on the outer in real life or online for being themselves I think it only natural that they decide to lie to see if there is really something wrong with themselves or if people are just forming judgement's and assumptions based on looks or gender or some other shallow reason.

I like to keep an open mind about things and I am far more annoyed over internet tough guys or bullies than I am about some person who likes to play something they aren't on a RP site.

littlerooster said:

My point is honesty is relevant to the situation, how many times have you told someone you are "OK" when they ask how you are even though you might be in a depression? Saying "OK" is my default answer to that question regardless of my mood.

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"Ok" is my answer when I'm feeling really bad but don't think the other person really wants to hear about it. So, if someone else tells me they are "ok" I usually ask what's wrong.

Back on topic, I really don't have much expectation about people RPing as themselves. I guess my perspective is coming from an mmo where there is really no expectation of a female character representing an actual female. I usually get called "he" in random situations, even though I'm a girl and my character is female, and I've stopped bothering to correct people unless I talk for any length of time. I think it's nice people can be free of their labels in cyberspace. If we are getting personal and asking each other about our real lives though, I think people should either be honest or say they don't want to say. I have zero problem with someone who doesn't want to reveal their gender or marital status. I just don't want them to lie to me about it!

So, in other words, be who you want to be. Just don't talk about your real life if you don't want to reveal what it really is.

Even though I sympathize with people that hide their identity, I'm stubbornly honest about myself. Simply because I know I can afford to be, not because I'm a con or ex-con either (I'm a fairly peaceable person) but I have had more than my fair share of trouble to know what to do.

LadyLarunai said:

[snip]

LadyYunaFFX2 said:

Personally, I never really started trying to act like or be a male until I religiously began playing MMOs. Most think one of the following when I reveal I'm actually a woman.

1. "What?! You're a chick? No fucking way!"
2. "You're fucking weird."
3. "That's really cool. You acted so much like a guy that you genuinely fooled me."

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Interesting on that one as if you are a guy playing a chick the most common are.
1. "What the hell is wrong with you?"
2. "Fag!"
3. "Why would you want to play a girl, freak"

That was vanilla wow might be different since then

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Heh, I remember them times even if I never played WoW. Many MMOs were quite similar in community attitude archetype. Though very few people ever questioned me on my gender, and the friends whom I told I was a guy reacted as if it were impossible. (Or maybe it is because of the different community, I couldn't tell ya.)

Bumping this. In light of the recent outing of a member posting pictures not her own by the owner of those pictures. Let's talk about it some more.

I saw and I knew it was fake, even searched and outed them at one point but deleted my post a few minutes later. Because then I thought, why does it matter? No, seriously. Why? On an rp forum where we're writing fantasies and half the members are playing roles... What's the harm in using fake photos? Especially in a place like this, it just makes me wonder what the crime and victim is. Identity theft is serious business but that's not usually what happens when folks use another's photos. They're merely borrowing a face.

By the way, as much as I admire and adore him, I'm not actually Christoph Waltz in my avatar.

Rudolph Quin said:

Bumping this. In light of the recent outing of a member posting pictures not her own by the owner of those pictures. Let's talk about it some more.

I saw and I knew it was fake, even searched and outed them at one point but deleted my post a few minutes later. Because then I thought, why does it matter? No, seriously. Why? On an rp forum where we're writing fantasies and half the members are playing roles... What's the harm in using fake photos? Especially in a place like this, it just makes me wonder what the crime and victim is. Identity theft is serious business but that's not usually what happens when folks use another's photos. They're merely borrowing a face.

By the way, as much as I admire and adore him, I'm not actually Christoph Waltz in my avatar.

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Honestly, it doesn't matter in the long run, but it's a sense of morality. People seem to have the characters they RP as but are able to distinguish themselves between the two and hold normal conversations/post parts of their actual self. I find what she (assuming she's a she) did dishonest to everyone else as well as myself. Everyone else is posting pictures of themselves and she does the latter. And I'm not a recognizable celebrity, I'm a pretty normal person who posts pictures of myself on Reddit (now of which are watermarked). This was unexpected. I didn't out them immediately too, I gave them a chance, I am not one to publicly humiliate someone but I am not one for empty threats either and I asked her to remove them, but got no reply, so stood by what I said I would do. It's not a massive deal, but I personally feel a little weird and find it dishonorable. I put my pictures out there aware that they will get into the wrong hands but trusting that it won't (more often than not anyway). I expect that trust to be broken but if I can right the wrongs where it is broken, then I will. It also kind of feels weird when you're the one being faked, don't have much experience in that area, but have seen people being faked before. Looked past it not thinking much of it and found the distress of the original person a little OTT, but to see my pictures on an unknown site was a little odd not going to lie, it's like a jump scare almost. But back to the point, you're right, it doesn't matter. But it's a little freaky from my shoes, and it's not morally ok.

I'll try to be as blunt and coherent as possible without rambling. I will forewarn that this is my opinion. Though I use logic to formulate it. *shrugs*

When it comes to identities, we all have one offline. When online, it can perhaps change a bit. Why? Well, because we aren't face to face with people, we have time to type before speaking, they don't hear our voices and thus the inflections in them...hiding any and all sense of, well, anything. So, if you have troubles interacting with people, it might be easier online, etc etc. Now, take it a step further, maybe you want to share more about yourself. It could be a pic or even a blurb about your life in a journal. Whatever. Here is where you ultimately choose to either lie or reveal.

The way I see it, if you aren't going to be truthful in what you reveal, then you probably should steer clear of the topic. Example. You hate your appearance. Well, then don't share someone else's picture and say it is you just because you want to share, but are afraid to share your own. Same thing about your life. If you want to make a journal to vent about your life, then don't make up shit to garner false sympathy or whatever because you crave the attention. In my eyes, that makes you an emotional leech if I'm going to be crass in my word usage. I could honestly go on and on.

I will say, and I don't mean to frighten people, but I've seen people fake pics (and yes, I knew the most recent incident was a faker from the start and had my own side search going on)...sometimes guys putting up girl pics and sometimes girls doing it, whatever. I've seen people create alts with distinctly different personae from their primary just to cause trouble and even have these alts logging in at the same time. Then you'll have people who made a bad name for themselves or got upset for some reason, so they leave and come back and attempt to be something they aren't. I've seen all of that and then some. And really, depending on the situation, I can let certain types of fakers slide. But the moment you're intentions are to emotionally entrap another by duping them into false beliefs or by harming someone since you stole some of their identity or you approach someone you might have harmed with a new identity and try to act like a different person so as to lure them in all over again....... Well, in those instances, lines are crossed. And, if you're outed, grow some balls or what the fuck ever and come clean. In other words, own the blunder and move on. People who own it, I have respect for. Others? Not so much. *shrugs*

How this all compares to RP? Well, they are different. RP is creating a story. The other is your actual identity. The YOU as a unique individual sitting there and typing, etc. In my head, I just cannot compare the two. But anyway, this is as I see it. Warped mind and all. XD

Rudolph Quin said:

By the way, as much as I admire and adore him, I'm not actually Christoph Waltz in my avatar.

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Why don't you go ahead and tell us Santa Claus isn't real while you're at it? Or that The Undertaker is really just a tall guy and not an undead wizard?

MisterKing said:

Why don't you go ahead and tell us Santa Claus isn't real while you're at it? Or that The Undertaker is really just a tall guy and not an undead wizard?

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That's me. Dream-ruiner.

That's not weird at all, dark. In fact I think that is very healthy, particularly with what you've seen. The line is definitely drawn at predators and the intent behind the ruse. Also thank you, Neria, for weighing in on this.

I generally prefer to stick with honesty is the best policy. I am as honest as I possibly can be, when it comes to the things I talk about online. I don't see any reason to have a different online persona... Just doesn't seem fun to me. Though I am much more careful about the people I connect with online, and the relationships I form. I tend to make sure that if I do meet anyone it's in a very public and crowded place. My past has taught me some pretty rough lessons, but despite all that... it helped me become who I am.

Either way, I generally answer questions - and tell stories - as close to truth as I can manage online. Sometimes it's not my place, or I'm not permitted (IE It's someone elses story, not mine, and they shared it with me and I can't share it without their permission) to share with others.

People use fake pictures to get attention. If you're attractive, more people talk to you. If you're not, you get ignored. That's why it matters to those people. Simple as that.

Does it make it right? Nope. But that's the general logic to pretending to be someone you're not.

Beautiful Disgrace said:

People use fake pictures to get attention. If you're attractive, more people talk to you. If you're not, you get ignored. That's why it matters to those people. Simple as that.

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The opposite is also a possibility.

Beautiful Disgrace said:

People use fake pictures to get attention. If you're attractive, more people talk to you. If you're not, you get ignored. That's why it matters to those people. Simple as that.

Does it make it right? Nope. But that's the general logic to pretending to be someone you're not.

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As someone who has done it and is attractive I find this to be incredibly simplistic and even wrong for a lot of people. Do a lot of people steal another's pictures because of insecurity about their own looks? Sure, but to say they do it solely for attention is not understanding a lot of the core motivations involved. and they're different for everyone.

For instance, not sure if anyone remembers but I supposedly had a mustache when I first signed up. I chose a guy I went to high school and never kept in touch with to yank pictures from. I remembered him, he didn't remember me. And the obsession was real. Back in 2008 there were very few accessible pictures of him online. But I found them, scouring pathways with everything I knew about him to access blogs and photobucket accounts for him and his friends, just to snatch some photo or glimpse of him that I could have ready in case someone asked what I looked like. And back then, here, I was well liked and people often asked for a glimpse. And that was all I took from him, just the face, the mask.

The guy I chose was not model handsome but moderately good looking, tall, lanky, dark curly brown hair, and a mustache sometimes, with a great smile. A guy I'd like to see myself as, merely attractive to me for his similar body type to mine at the time except he was actually a dude in possession of a penis. I reluctantly posted pictures because my intuition and Trygon's massive presence on the forum at the time made me paranoid. And when I did, I usually took them down to avoid prying eyes from tearing apart my facade which was given strength by the stories I wove about my life rather than an image people had to look at. And no, I didn't like attention that much. For the longest time, I had a complex about them asking me to be a moderator because in my paranoid delusions and the sickness I'd woven around myself, I sincerely thought that everyone knew and they were trying to get me to confess. If my pathology at the time made me smarter and less self-absorbed, I would have acknowledged that public humiliation and outing was more Trygon's admin style than subtly making a person think everyone likes them until they break down from the weight of their own demons.

Again, it is a shameful past I have to live with but I bring it up not to endorse or defend but to offer a different perspective on the "why". It's not always a clear cut "they wish they were attractive" mentality, since the guy I chose was a "grow on you" kind of attractive, not superficially good looking. But he was a man and that's what I personally needed and wanted for my fantasy.

I do wish that others who have had experience with this sort of thing would step forward and share their experiences. Because although yes, I'll agree it's morally wrong, this type of ruse, particularly the lying about oneself or sharing fake photos, it is my personal belief that it is relatively harmless most of the time. Not victimless and certainly predatory but overall, not intending to cause harm to those who fall prey to the ruse.

Sorry. My experience with people who use fake pictures were mostly on Gaiaonline. It was all silly teenager stuff, when you're going through a phase where you don't know if you look good or not.

I did have a friend who was male who pretended to be a girl for a long time, but this was after my teenage years on a different forum. He never posted pictures but he impersonated someone close to his life that he missed. So yes, I do understand that people do it for reasons other than attention. In this particular case though, I feel like it was done to gain popularity.

Rudolph Quin said:

it is my personal belief that it is relatively harmless most of the time. Not victimless and certainly predatory but overall, not intending to cause harm to those who fall prey to the ruse.

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Pretty much this. I think you've got to, as Rudolph Quin puts it so nicely, remember the whys behind why people are taking other people's faces. Sometimes it is malicious and creepy as in the stuff that going on in the Post Your Face thread atm, but often it is much more harmless.

On a forum like this, where people are coming for both self-expression and escape from reality, I think maintaining a grey-area is important. We certainly don't want abuse or victimisation, but we should also be tolerant towards the fact that for some writing under another's face/identity/persona is simply a small harmless indulgence and nothing more.