North Dakota Bans All Abortions

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/22/1764141/north-dakota-passes-personhood/?mobile=nc

Way to be, ND.

I'm a firm believer in pro-choice and I have the feeling a lot of people will move/leave the state to be able to have the choice for abortions. Maybe all those whack-jobs will move there and become an island.

Anyways, what is everyone else's thoughts on this?

Believe me, Hahvoc....ND isn't alone in this (in terms of idiocy, that is).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/22/michigan-bill-health-care-providers-deny-services-moral-objections/2009539/

I don't even see why we're wasting time with issues like this; to me, the 'separation of church and state' should be pretty damned clear. Religion should not influence politics and politics should not influence religion. What's so hard to understand? Maybe I still expect too much of people.

But back to the issue at hand, this is just another BAWWWWing by the control freaks who want to challenge Roe vs. Wade and infringe on civil liberties. The developmental stages of the human zygote are pretty damned well understood, and I will say this right now: A fertilized egg is still just that. An egg. Not a human. Not a person. Not capable of conscious thought. It is a mass of cells and genetic mess that have yet to even begin taking form.

Thing is, religions like Catholicism are all about having tons and tons of babies to make more followers for god. As Monty Python said, "Every sperm is sacred!"

I'm deeply disturbed that this debate is still happening in the 21st century. That women are somehow unable to take care of their own bodies and so others have to make that decision for them. Fuck you, politics.

And religions...basing this kind of shit on morality? Having the balls to go, "I can't take care of this kid and don't want it in a corrupt system where he/she may never get adopted," is more moral than just having the kid and possibly going crazy from the decision.

And I've noticed now that scientists are saying the whole "It feels pain after 3 months of being carried," isn't true. That it only begins to feel any kind of pain once it becomes viable outside of the womb/able to live outside the womb which is like at 2 months premature or something like that. I'd have to look it up just to check again.

I'm really tired of religion still forcing their agenda on women. And people say that blacks had it bad. Fuck you. No, it's not meant to be racist and if comes off that way, so be it, but slavery doesn't still exist in this country. Trampling on the rights of women does.

Ha. I think they'll lift the ban once people start leaving ND or using wire hangers to perform old-fashioned abortions. :/

Raivh said:

Ha. I think they'll lift the ban once people start leaving ND or using wire hangers to perform old-fashioned abortions. :/

Click to expand...

"You'll never stop abortions. You'll just stop safe ones."

Thank gos I'm not the only one here who believes that abortion should be a choice! I personally, I don't like it to much, but I know that this should be allowed for a few reasons. The first is because, like you people said, I belive in pro choice and separation in church and state. Second, they are girls who get pregnant all the time with a baby they don't want, weather they were raped, or are to young to care for it(and sadly, sometimes both). The later is a common place were I live, but due to many Catholics in the area who belies it's wrong and belive anyone who is for it should be go to hell, along with anyone who believes in gay marriage. Which, again, I personally don't like, but that me. I really don't care to much what another does as long as they aren't hurting me or themselves. It's not any of my business whether someone gets pregnant, owns a gun, or is gay, so, why is it the government's business?

That was my personal opinion and what I belive in, and if you belive otherwise, that's fine. I don't judge and won't critic you for it, so I ask the same respect. Thank you.

First, I would actually be surprised if someone came in here and posted that they were all for banning abortion. Just practically speaking, I couldn't see many conservative-minded folks on a forum for sexual role play. There may be some dichotomous individuals out there, but I don't see them responding to this thread even if they feel that way. I would hope they would though. I actually enjoy hearing reasoning for an opposing argument. It's easy to stand behind popular opinion.

Let me try... By banning abortion, North Dakota has taken steps to dictate policy that ensures stronger family bonds and encouraged discretion when choosing sex. Well, I suck at it, but I tried.

Here's the unfortunate part... The job market in ND is booming harder than any other in the US right now thanks to the fracking exploitation (again... thanks ND). It's nearly impossible to be unemployed there. They are throwing up hotels, apartments, and housing for all the incoming workers who are making bank doing blue collar work. So what's the connection? Originally a male society of migrant (non-alien)/seasonal workers who left their families behind, these workers are now moving their families up with them. As much as I don't like thinking about it, I have a sinking feeling that there are going to be tons of beleaguered wives and girlfriends who move there involuntarily. In fact, I remember reading an article in the NY Times Magazine like a couple months back about the new culture there with men and women.

As much as I'd love to see a mass exodus from that barren state, I cannot help, but be pragmatic about it. I don't see any threat to this sort of policy any time soon. It doesn't help that in the rapidly changing political landscape, ND is quickly becoming a burgeoning bastion of "the New Right" (entrenched GOP center).

Anyway, just my two cents.

I'd like to see if the number of people on welfare and other government benefit programs go up within the next year or two (I'll give it 2 since some of these babies still have to be conceived under the law). That or I at least hope the waiting list for parents looking to adopt gets shorter (it can be a long wait).

When it comes to religious beliefs, there is little reasoning if their beliefs are firm, which they typically are. Breeding and creating more children of God aside, I've found that a lot of religious pro-life people will use the 'tough love' factor as well. Years back when people in my English class were grouped up to debate social issues, my group was given abortion, and it was 4 women and 1 guy. Guess who was the pro-life person? The one guy in the group. His defenses were 1. That he was religious and had basic religious beliefs, and 2. He felt that one should accept their mistake, step up and take responsibility for it, and to learn from the experience. So it's like thinking "Well if you're going to be stupid and careless enough to get pregnant, then you deserve to get stuck with a child."

Children are not lessons to be learned. They aren't a pawn in one's game of life. If a child comes into this world, they should at least leave that hospital with parents who wanted them, whether they're biological or adoptive.

Unfortunately, there are innumerable children who don't have even one loving parent - let alone two. Tons aren't even born in hospitals still. The US infant mortality rate is disturbingly bad compared to world rankings.

The religious aspect really does have to be put aside because arguing against faith is pointless. Debates have to be relegated to objectivity that can be proven in this realm. It's nothing against any faith. It's just the aspect of futility since faith cannot be proven or disproven.

The "paying for the mistake" idea is an easy trap to fall into, but I think what I find most egregious about it is that it places all fault and responsibility on the female. Even if the plan is to keep the child and the father is required to be involved, he doesn't go through the birthing process and myriad of issues that comes with. In larger perspective, abortion regulation is just exemplary of a larger thought process that women are somehow inferior and therefore shouldn't be in a position of choice or power. It may be archaic and it may be dying out, but obviously we aren't there yet.

Hey, why stop at wasting a trillion dollars on the drug war? Let's find something else to ban!

Trygon said:

Raivh said:

Ha. I think they'll lift the ban once people start leaving ND or using wire hangers to perform old-fashioned abortions. :/

Click to expand...

"You'll never stop abortions. You'll just stop safe ones."

Click to expand...

KarenNelson said:

Hey, why stop at wasting a trillion dollars on the drug war? Let's find something else to ban!

Click to expand...

I was raised with beliefs, but one of them was that I was allowed to use my brain and make my own choices in life. Women have the right to choice, and fuck anyone who says different. I have reasons for supporting that, but the simplest is because I don't believe that men are any better than women and both should have freedom of choice.

Having said that, I have never agreed with more people in my life than on this topic, particularly the four of you.

Feral, I especially agree with you. I believe life is sacred, but I also see the freedom of choice just as much so. Both are being abused and used for political bullshit, and I am sick and tired of it. If my state does that, I am moving. End of story.