THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!! (Raise the Character Age Bracket???)

Because this was brought up in Q&S and really needs proper discussion AND because this discussion could result in a MAJOR change, I am bringing that discussion here where it belongs.

The topic? Underage characters--Should the current age of characters (the youngest being 13) be raised to 16?

I have made a couple statements in the Q&S thread regarding the topic and I will place those statements here so that everyone knows how I feel about it, though really it should come as no surprise. ~

STATEMENT #1:
I think most people (though I wish it were all) know I'd prefer the age limit be 16 and older. So, if Vek is good with this, I'd MUCH rather see it done because quite honestly seeing younger squicks me out to no end and bordering on things that could be troublesome for the site overall. As it is, the worst offense this site sees are people trying to find loopholes with loli/shota. Seriously, I've seen it all now... nothing shocks me any more. But that doesn't leave me any less disgusted. So, with that thought. I'd rather see the age limit raised to 16 coupled with the post-puberty because I don't want to see people trying to get their fix by claiming--"But they are 16 and have no breasts and no hips and aren't menstruating." To me, those descriptions would NOT fly. Just my two cents.

~~

STATEMENT #2:
I will state my reasons as to why I'd like the age limit for characters to be raised and perhaps not everyone will like to hear this, however I will be blunt, yet tactful.

The reason is simple enough--while there are those who are tasteful and do not push things to the point of disgusting when it comes to the current younger ages that are allowed on site at this time, there are those on site (the vast majority who gun for this sort of RP) who unfortunately abuse the privilege. Unfortunately, it is this majority, at least from my own experiences both as a member and as a staff member, that has caused me to formulate this opinion. These people push the limit, border on hostile with staff most of the time and tend to do things in creepy ways by trying to pull things into the realm of the real world. In other words they use this site as a means to stalk and prey. This happens far too often for my liking and would more than likely decrease with the character age limits increasing. At present, the rule most commonly broken is the loli/shota rule. Do you people realize that we have members who think they are slick and try to stealthily request their characters be 8 years old and such and be in sexual situations? Yes. This happens. And it is horrifying. I'm not saying that upping the age will oust this all together, but we are likely to have a decrease and I am all for that if it means keeping creepers and stalkers away. It is an unfortunate side effect that those out there who understand the rule and would write tastefully within its boundaries would have to be affected, but I'd rather be cautious and make the change. Plus, I do think that those who truly understand the rules of this place and want what is best for it would understand that.

EDIT: The original Q&S Thread post -- http://bluemoonroleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=40873

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Raise the bar.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Personally, I agree with you a hundred percent. It is definitely a moral gray area for several people and extremely off-putting. It can also color the site itself really poorly. I am not a particularly active member, nor am I a staff member of the site, but this doesn't mean that I care for it or the members any less. This being said, I am all for increasing the age limit. The people who try to push the boarder and use the minimum age limit are slimy, they are sneaky, and most of all, they are disrespectful...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put down people who are into that thing. Me, personally (being a mother), I find it disgusting. But this is not the place for it, we are attempting to make this a tasteful, adult roleplaying site for everyone to enjoy. This being said, with younger ages being such a 'guilty pleasure' and a HUGE moral gray area, 16 seems to be the perfect age. :]

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I have seen some people who write these things, and they can sometimes be tasteful. Very rarely have I seen it as more than acting out the fantasy through this medium, and to be wholly honest, that's what I see a lot of what goes on here as being. I know I'm not exactly the most outspoken member on such things, preferring just to keep to my own RPs and such, but I still felt I should go ahead and comment on that.

With that being said, I'm in favor of the cap being raised. It's odd, but I sort of considered the proposed age as something of my personal cap, though I very rarely go lower than that. It often comes down to the squick factor, and the idea of messing up even a fictional character usually doesn't sit well with me. even the few times I admit to trying it, I ended up being highly uncomfortable with the situation.

But beyond my personal feelings, I think it would be a good statement for the site. I was understanding of the current rule, because, again, I can understand people having different desires and such. I've RP'd quite a bit of stuff that most people wouldn't be comfortable reading (Some of it has even made me look back and feel those pangs of guilt). However, I think it sets a, for lack of a better word, classier tone. It's saying that you're understanding the desire and such, but you want to avoid possible problems and/or weed out a bad element.

So yeah, more blathering and babbling that essentially amounts to another vote for raising the bar.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I would much rather see the age raised also, there are some things I am not a fan off that I see a lot on the site. And most of it if someone is into it fine, that is ok just don't ask me for it. But having to do with younger ages, that one always made me feel not good and even a little worried being on the site.

For me and I am sure that some do it tastefully here, but even if you are writing something like that or enjoy something like that I am sorry for me that just isn't right. There is just something not cool about it. I would prefer it raised to 18, but would be ok for 16.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Honestly, I have nothing more to say. Darkangel76, with that second statement, you've pretty much addressed all my thoughts/concerns on the issue. It's almost a bit eerie. o.o

As I briefly mentioned before, prepubescent characters are among things that make me uncomfortable, so I honestly hope no one misunderstood my previous argument for wanting to lower the age limit, or anything of the sort. For all my love of free speech, it's really not something I would fight to see allowed...or facilitated.

I was going to pose the problem/question of whether it would really change much. I've seen how people weasel through the rule, making characters 13 only in number...(Like with sickness or undead...ness, as an excuse for the character not being developed, physically and/or mentally.) But, if you do think it's a good way to stop it, or at least decrease it - even if it's just sending a stronger "NO KIDS" message, then...well, I understand the reasoning, and no complaints from me.

The whole thing does bother me. :/ Even if it wasn't for making characters like that, at least because I believe when you join a forum or community of such a sort, with rules, you should respect them. A minimum of at least 13 is already pretty young - most sites I know go for the mentioned 16, or 18, and at least one was even 21. So people disregarding even that is pretty annoying to see.

It's just, indeed, sad that such a change has to be made because of those people, and that those who abide the rule fully have to suffer for it.

But bottom line is - if you think it will help with this problem, then I'm behind it. I hope we won't have a bunch of people (beyond those practically ignoring the rule) jumping ship or something.

Nothing more to say...Except the suggestion that you only limit it to 16. Like I said in the other thread, I'm a bit biased on it...but, I can still try to provide a decent reason: People could, at least, still play with the whole "underage" taboo, and no one can as easily say a 16 year old hasn't gone into puberty as easily as one can say a 13 year old hasn't.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I'm for it. Been considering for some time now, actually.

16 seems to be high enough that it doesn't draw that sort of creeper, but not so much that it's into 'flagrant denial of reality' territory.

Note that this would apply to all sites I host - so people on Lunar Radiance, Guilty Pleasures, etc. will also be affected.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

16 year olds are already technically underage and puberty is required of characters sooo.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Do eeeeet.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

My own personal vote for age, would be to raise it to 16 as I mentioned in the first post of this thread. I would also want the characters to have hit puberty. Even though it is common for 16 year olds to have entered puberty, you will always find that one person who will try to find that loophole. So, I think it imperative that all characters engaging in sexual acts be at least 16 years of age and have entered puberty be they male, female or other.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I just generally think it's a good idea, since it's such a taboo kink and, as stated before, a huge moral gray area. Some people are okay with it, some aren't. Some don't mind it, and some are repulsed by it.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Might as well raise it; I don't remember seeing anyone opposing the idea in the other thread. The support for the raise is even stronger here. I also doubt that those against this change will actually speak up, or even pay attention to these threads.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I guess I will toss my two cents in on the issue. While I tend to mind my own business and just stick to my RPs, I caught wind of this and will admit it would affect me, as I have done my share of RPs with underage characters involved. With that being said, I speak for myself and only myself. I know this is not a kink or taboo that everyone is comfortable with, so I try to be as respectful as possible and only seek it out with those that seem to have an inkling of interest in it (via request thread, f-list, etc). If they are not, I apologize and move on my merry way.

The real problem here seems to be one of behavior, not of RP preference. From what I've read in both the threads on this topic, it sounds like there is a recurring theme of harassment, stalking or what have you, and those people should be reported for such behavior. Or, people seeking underage RPs are pushing the envelope too often, and I fail to see how raising the age limit will do anything to solve that. If they are pushing for, let's say a RP involving someone 10 years old when the limit is 13, would they not just push the envelope and try to start a RP involving someone of 13 years when the the limit is 16? Again, it is an issue of the behavior of the individual member, not the topic which they are seeking to play out.

All in all, I don't feel that strongly about keeping the age limit or raising it. If it's raised I'll go about my business and respect the rules...while, as I stated, I have done my share of underaged RPs, it usually is closer to the 16 range anyways. I do, however, feel the efforts to raise the limit are a bit misguided and somewhat arbitrary. There are plenty of things that I have no interest in and are quite disgusting to me (bestiality, for example). I fully respect the people that want to have a forum to play those things out on, as long as they don't bother me and respect the fact that I'm just not into their whole scene.

I don't want to come off as some champion for this cause, because as I said in the beginning I speak only for myself. But I'm willing to bet a lot of people won't speak up, and if for nothing else, I offer my thoughts in the interest of having differing voices and opinions featured.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Why the hell not? I'll speak up. I've already told DA what I think on this issue... And was afraid of speaking up, but I'll go with it, since someone else actually the balls to say something... I guess I should too eh? Curtainwith certainly raises some good points.

Keep in mind that this will mostly reflect my own personal experiences. I do not speak for the majority, as sadly, there are quite a few despicable individuals out there that I'd personally shoot in the head if given the chance, for lack of a better way of saying it.

I've personally done RPs that were under 16, quite a few times. Now, to most people, I guess that would make me a disgusting ugly 'you know what' (not going to even mention that word) but the fact of the matter is, that couldn't be any further away from the truth. That was the reason I didn't want to speak up, as people are very likely to jump the ship on this issue.

The reason I did those RP was because of the way the 'anime' subculture represents it. In that specific kind of thing, characters under 16 tend to act in a specific way that makes them endearing and just cute/fun. Anime is a work of fiction, and characters from those type of things have nothing in common with real people and/or kids, be it physically, mentally, or whatever. They might as well be aliens as far as I'm concerned, as it's another world and another thing entirely.

To be entirely honest though, some people WILL think of REAL underage people when doing those RP... And I dislike those people just as much as the next person does. No one should be thinking of underage people in sexual terms, those kind of thoughts are toxic and will under most circumstances lead to much worse things.

In the end, I don't think that raising the bar will do anything. People who are despicable will continue to do so, and the ones who handled this reasonable (read: Without being really fucking creepy) will simply be blocked off for the possibility of warding off a couple of potential assholes... This kind of reminds me of the issue of DRM on videogames really, where paying customers are treated like criminals by the intrusive DRM. Except in this case, it would be the average userbase being treated like criminals because of some people. (No offense to anyone implied.)

With that said though, I have no objection against raising the rules to 16 per say. It'll irk me a little, and I don't think it'll make much of a difference in the long run, but if you guys decide that this is what is best for the site, then I am more than inclined to bow down and respect that. In the end, all I want is to see this place thrive, as it is by far the most awesome place I've been on the internet to this day... I usually left other forums/sites long before reaching the amount of time I spent here.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

"
The reason I did those RP was because of the way the 'anime' subculture represents it. In that specific kind of thing, characters under 16 tend to act in a specific way that makes them endearing and just cute/fun."

Exactly. It's the attitude. I don't think anyone has ever been arrested for molesting an anime character. lol It's a fucking drawing. It's not even anatomically correct.

Personally rping canon teenagers doesn't bother me when it's from anime series, or based in that happy, jumpy way. It's writing, it's not real people. How would you like the real creeps to get cornered away from this site and actually start committing the real acts because they can't get their fix here? Because I fear that happening more than I fear someone getting upset over writing that doesn't even affect them.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Just gonna throw this in as well, I'm all for the age being raised to 16. Fully support that completely. I have my own reasons for wanting this but I also agree with what DA said. I won't bring my opinions in to it since it's not very nice so, just to reiterate, I support the idea of raising the age limit to 16. I've never really liked that it was 13 in the first place but it wasn't my place to really say anything....I sincerely hope it gets raised.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I'm all for it. I personally like to keep my characters pretty close to my real age, and I like it when my partner either does the same or plays older. When I'm asked to play a youger role or if my partner requests that they play someone youger, I get a bit uncomfortable. So 16 is a great idea.

I hate to be the one that bringa this up though. Sadly, there will always be people trying to find loopeholes for this new rule. I already know of one, so I'll put it out there for you guys to watch out for. It would be a fan-based roleplay in the world of Lucky Star. The majority of the girls look cute and underdeveloped, and they are around 17-18 years of age. It's even a running gag when the characters make fun of one girl for being short and flat, and she's 18. Just something for you guys to keep in mind.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Because I am new, I doubt my two cents is worth its weight, but I'll throw it in anyway.

As I said in the thread which I posted in the Questions and Suggestions forum, I am perfectly capable of separating my writing from reality. That said, writing with underage characters doesn't really affect me one way or the other. I don't really find the concept erotic or pleasant, but it doesn't absolutely repulse me either. I suppose it is due to my own inclination to corrupting the pure and the innocent in my role play that I can understand the appeal of the young and the inexperienced, but there is a difference between this and shameless pedophilia.

I understand, however, that not everyone is capable of this level of indifference. If the site rules are being abused to feed some twisted fantasy of pure and blatant pedophilia, then I feel that the cap should be raised.

I can understand why some people might want a younger character for reasons outside of the simple fact that they are younger than 'legal'; intent of corrupting the pure (in my case) and historical settings where the underage character is not 'underage' for the time period would be the most common I think. Still, I do not believe that these individuals would mind raising the age cap if the rules are being abused to feed shameless and blatant pedophilific fantasies. Seeing as the site and server owners are all for this change, I somehow doubt that pedophilia was the intention of letting this rule slide in the first place.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

The only real reason I would speak against this is I feel like its the beginning of ganging up on people for their own kinks I guess you could say. I personally do like some incest and age play although anything below 16 I would usually only play with another character near in age not huge age gaps. But that's me, I can keep fact and fiction separate. Some people might be disgusted by the idea but one can't help what intrigues them only how they handle that feeling. My point is this everyone has so far ganged up on one fetish but personally I could talk about my disgust with futa, beastiality, scat/piss play, so on and so forth all things that completely offend me. But once we start targeting people where do we draw the line? I am a newer member and have no real weight or say in the matter I just hate for a place about the freedom to openly express yourself without persecution to start judging people and making them feel like their not allowed to express themselves equally.

My vote is yes raise it to 16 unless otherwise permitted my only conflict being with stories of family incest in which several teenage sibling are involved and 16-18 doesn't leave much room for teens still living at home. It would just complicate the scenario. Otherwise I say if two consenting adults want to age play younger than 16 then they can do it in private.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

vikingpanda said:

Otherwise I say if two consenting adults want to age play younger than 16 then they can do it in private.

Click to expand...

But not on site. Not even private messages. If it is against site rules for characters under 16, then they should respect and obey that, even if they think they are doing so in private. They aren't. Admins aren't stupid.

My only problem is, what of those already containing roleplays with characters beneath 16? Would they have to change their character, and roleplay, or would they be grandfathered in, and forgiven?​

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

I'm all for it. What it represents is what makes it a problem for me. I know a lot of people will try to claim "13 is technically sexual maturity, so...." Well, in most people, that's when puberty begins. It doesn't mean they are mature, able to defend themselves from an older and likely bigger "partner", and make rational decisions. I think anyone who doesn't see the big deal must not have a child in their life. I have 3 nephews who are between the age of 12 and 15 and I simply can't see them being able to handle the emotions and risks that come with sex. Why does the age matter so much that they have to be so young? If you want a school setting, fine, make them the age group of seniors in high school (or juniors). I honestly see no reason for them to be so young other than being a pedophile or the lower spectrum of an ephebophile. That or some power complex youth usually represent innocence, purity, naivety, and weakness.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

This is actually not, in my own POV, a shout out against a specific kink. It is more of a means to deter predators and those who have serious problems, not to mention those who just take things too far. Those of both categories are not good for the site in my opinion for several reasons. The predators are obvious and the latter are often preyed upon and more often than not cause hostility and can become predators and/or draw predators in. So, none of that is good in my book and I'd rather it not be around here. It is just sad that this is the majority of what occurs when it comes to those who prefer the 'underage category'. Most abuse the privilege and push boundaries into the grotesque and cannot separate the fiction from fantasy or they take the liberty of free speech into a realm that is blatantly inappropriate merely because 'they can' and flaunt it in ways that are hostile and blatantly uncomfortable for most and they do this on purpose. It is a sad fact that I wish wasn't the case.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Also..... when it comes to 'in private'..... THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU FIND SOMEONE HERE AND THEN VIA PMS SAY HEY LETS DO CHILD SEX ON OUR IMS BECAUSE BLUE MOON SAYS NO I will ban you for that, if i catch you! Got it?

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

Sorry it just seemed to be a one sided conversation so someone had to stir the pot. I don't make rules here I just follow them so... I'm not trying to condone the aforementioned behavior just trying to say its not nothing but a bunch of pedos and creepers so let's not start criminalizing people.

RE: THIS AFFECTS YOU - PLEASE READ AND DISCUSS!!!!!

It is fine if you are able to see both sides of the argument. I can certainly understand the other side because of a 'Power Complex', as Ms Muffintops pointed my particular interest in the case out as. There is a difference, however, in being able to see the other side and actually standing with them.

I am not an admin, and I have not been here long, so I will have to take DA's word on the situation when assuming that the rule is being abused for purposes that are toxic to the community. If this is the case, as I am sure that it is given the natures of humanity and the internet, then there is no need to defend these people. They damage the community and, in turn, have the capability of damaging our potential enjoyment here.

It is unfortunate, but in this case, it seems that a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch. While I am an American citizen, and would gladly take up arms to defend my freedoms, I also understand that there are times where those freedoms need to be regulated. If this rule will preserve the integrity of the community, then I will be happy to see it implemented and enforce it by what little means that I can (reporting blatant violations if I happen upon them).