Mass Effect Discussion

Thank you for the heads up.

Mass Effect has to be one of my favorite series of all time, and I can honestly say that had the idea been handled by any studio other than Bio ware, it wouldn't have made such an impact on my life. Something about the way that the Dev team brought the entire universe to life leads me to believe that had a studio like Bethesda or Volition (or god forbid Lucas Arts) had done it, it would've been a completely different story today.

That being said, I am soooooo excited that Mark Meers AND Jennifer Hale will be at MomoCon this weekend. Given the fact that being a voice actor is my biggest dream, this is a once win a lifetime opportunity for me.

In my ME games, I have tried almost every possible path through the games, and as much as its is fun to be a Renegade, if left to my own devices to make decisions based on how I (in real life) would handle a situation, I always find myself gravitating to the Paragon Side.

Millenium Joker said:

Something about the way that the Dev team brought the entire universe to life leads me to believe that had a studio like Bethesda or Volition (or god forbid Lucas Arts) had done it, it would've been a completely different story today.

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I think what makes Bioware games so unique is that there isn't anyone else doing them. To my knowledge, they were the first to make games they way the do, and they are still pretty much the only people doing it. Bethesda's offerings are the next closest thing, but their narrative structure is so different that it's not even a fair comparison. However, I do not think that what Bioware does is so special as to be untouchable by other studios. I firmly believe that any competent developer could make a Bioware game that is as good, or better, than Bioware has done.

If Bethesda were to follow the Bioware formula, they could certainly do it. They make games that are incredibly massive, and filled with more content than just about any other mainstream game out there. Pound for pound, Minecraft might have more stuff in it, but it doesn't compare to how Bethesda's games look (although... they aren't exactly super pretty or anything). Still, imagine if Bethesda Game Studios were to reel themselves back and create a Mass Effect scale game. I'm sure it would be pretty damn impressive, considering their Elder Scrolls games are as good as they are. Fault them how you want, but it is still damn impressive that they can get those games running on consoles, and have them looking as good as they do. Team them up with the writers at Obsidian, and I think they could make a very, very interesting Mass Effect.

Another developer I'd like to use the Bioware formula is Rockstar. These guys know what they are doing. The games they make are technically impressive (for consoles), cinematic in quality, and aren't afraid to grab you by the balls (even if you don't have any). I think these guys are easily skilled enough to put out a Mass Effect that is as good, if not better, than what Bioware has done. They have the resources, technical know how, and the writing team to do it.

I believe Naughty Dog could make a very good Mass Effect. The Uncharted series is pretty damn good. Fault it for it's set piece-esque design, but there's a whole lot of good stuff put into it. They have the skill and the writing team to make anything they want. Plus, the Last of Us is looking pretty damn fine so far as well.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put down Bioware. I don't hold them to the same esteem that I once did, but they are still the best at what they do (they're the only ones really). The very fact that they can chain together the entire story throughout the trilogy is a technical achievement that is not to be sneezed at. However, lately it is hard for me to acknowledge them as amazing developers. They're damn good, but their latest offerings haven't impacted me as their past offerings have. I'm just saying that any great developer could do what what Bioware does.

Aside from a few things about Mass Effect 3, my favorite part was the multi-player, and not the main game I've been waiting years and years to play. Granted, the ending did influence my opinion of the game, but I thought the overall experiacne was good, not great. I did not think Mass Effect 3 was a great game. Coming off of how utterly crappy Dragon Age II was, I put far less stock in Bioware now. I really believe their best years are now behind them. Although, I do have to commend them for their stellar support of the multi-player. I really wish other developers would follow this same model, because it goes to show that a relatively smaller studio can release free shit for their multi-player and still actually exist. It makes the map packs for certain FPS games at their fifteen dollar price points, buying characters for even a few dollars, and releasing a free-to-play game with locked content look very lame.

My only real problems with Bethesda are as such: they can write and develop like crazy, but because they tend to make their games on PC for PC and port them over, then console experience tends to suffer in the form of numerous glitches, ridiculous loading problems, disc read errors, and those fod-awful invisible walls. Are they one of my favorite studios? Yes, but they aren't without faults. And when they let Obsidian do the Dev work, the games seem to suffer from said problems even worse than if Bethesda had done it. As to the writing, I'm a bit picky on that- I honestly can't remember the last time the STORY of a Bethesda/Obsidian game engrossed me as much as something Bioware put out, going as far back as KOTOR 1 and 2. Does the Beth/Obsid teamup make games that are fun to play? Absolutely. But from a narrative perspective, the games (at least in recent years) have had some relatively boring and uninspired storylines for their products.

Could Rockstar pull off a Bioware? That would be interesting. Certainly, the narratives of the GTA games get the player really engrossed in the day to day activities of the protagonists. For instance, when in played GTA IV, through a lot of time spent with Nico Bellic, his pain became mine when he had to choose between family and love, between money and friendship, or at the end, where he had to choose between happiness or revenge. It felt like no matter what happened, from his reluctance to take that first life while working for Vlad, to his ambiguity about hunting Dmitry, I felt like j connected with Nick, and even some if the supporting cast in a way that games like Fallout and Darksiders couldn't really match. Maybe Rockstar could pull off an ME game, but I would personally be willing to give Bioware another chance. If the are going through with some of their plans (like another Jade Empire, a better DA, and a possible ME game that doesn't involve Shepard) In would give my full support.

Now, I can only speculate.... What if the reigns to a big franchise like ME were given to Volition? These guys know how to make games that are not only fun to play, but have a great mix of humor and violence (Saints Row) and do a good jib of making your character into the ultimate badass (their interpretation of the Punisher)

Mitsu said:

To my knowledge, they were the first to make games they way the do,

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Black Isle

Oh, I meant starting with Fallout 3. I knew Fallout 1,2, and Tactics were done by Interplay and Black Isle. As was Brotherhood of Steel (garbage game by the way. Like Champions of Norrath gone wrong and boring)

Millenium Joker said:

My only real problems with Bethesda are as such: they can write and develop like crazy, but because they tend to make their games on PC for PC and port them over, then console experience tends to suffer in the form of numerous glitches, ridiculous loading problems, disc read errors, and those fod-awful invisible walls. Are they one of my favorite studios? Yes, but they aren't without faults. And when they let Obsidian do the Dev work, the games seem to suffer from said problems even worse than if Bethesda had done it. As to the writing, I'm a bit picky on that- I honestly can't remember the last time the STORY of a Bethesda/Obsidian game engrossed me as much as something Bioware put out, going as far back as KOTOR 1 and 2. Does the Beth/Obsid teamup make games that are fun to play? Absolutely. But from a narrative perspective, the games (at least in recent years) have had some relatively boring and uninspired storylines for their products.

Could Rockstar pull off a Bioware? That would be interesting. Certainly, the narratives of the GTA games get the player really engrossed in the day to day activities of the protagonists. For instance, when in played GTA IV, through a lot of time spent with Nico Bellic, his pain became mine when he had to choose between family and love, between money and friendship, or at the end, where he had to choose between happiness or revenge. It felt like no matter what happened, from his reluctance to take that first life while working for Vlad, to his ambiguity about hunting Dmitry, I felt like j connected with Nick, and even some if the supporting cast in a way that games like Fallout and Darksiders couldn't really match. Maybe Rockstar could pull off an ME game, but I would personally be willing to give Bioware another chance. If the are going through with some of their plans (like another Jade Empire, a better DA, and a possible ME game that doesn't involve Shepard) In would give my full support.

Now, I can only speculate.... What if the reigns to a big franchise like ME were given to Volition? These guys know how to make games that are not only fun to play, but have a great mix of humor and violence (Saints Row) and do a good jib of making your character into the ultimate badass (their interpretation of the Punisher)

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Bethesda is really spotty in the narrative department. Nothing they've really ever done is anything to gush over, but they know how to construct a world. Granted, the Elder Scrolls have been around for a while, but they know how to utilize an expansive world. I believe they would really infuse a whole lot into the Mass Effect universe. I mean there's so much lore to be found in the Elder Scrolls, and that's where they really put a lot of effort into fleshing things out. Mass Effect was about learning about the universe through character interaction and codecs. Elder Scrolls takes a similar approach, but it's more about just exploring and finding things out. This is, of course, due to the open ended nature of the game. Mass Effect is about telling you the lore, and Elder Scrolls is about finding it out. I enjoy both methods. Obsidian is more of the same, but I always found the stories that they have to tell to be more interesting than Bethesda's own writing teams.

The nature of their games keep the player emotionally distant, because of the silent protagonist thing. It's claimed that a silent protagonist does the opposite, but I don't feel that way at all. I'm playing the game, not in the game, so I have a whole lot of trouble connecting on any kind of emotional level. I usually don't give a damn, unless it's a moral choice, and I'd rather not see one thing happen over the other. However, I'm not invested in the events, just mindful. With a voiced protagonist, who has a personality (guided by me or not), I'm able to take in that character's emotions (if I choose them or not), and it creates a stronger narrative. I'm not just selecting options, I'm hearing them voiced, and they feel more "real". If I were just staring at my screen, watching Mordin talk, would I care about him as much as I did due to his interactions with another character (Shepard)? I think a whole lot of what Bethesda and Obsidian can do would benefit greatly from the Bioware model.

I think Rockstar can do pretty much anything. They have the drive, talent, and attitude to pretty much do whatever the fuck they want. It's why Take-Two doesn't mind them taking so many years to release main Grand Theft Auto titles-- also helps that they are each successful. I think they can make a fantastic whatever they want. I really don't think there's a single genre they couldn't handle. They could make Barbie's Puzzle Hunter Bejeweled Blast, and it would probably be pretty damn good.

Volition on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. I enjoy the Saint's Row games more than the Grand Theft Auto series, but the third game was a major let down as far as the narrative goes. I really don't think they are interested in that aspect of gaming at all. They nailed it pretty well in Saints Row 2, but everything in the Third points to them instead just focusing on making a fun game. If anything, it would be a very interesting Mass Effect game.

Trygon said:

Mitsu said:

To my knowledge, they were the first to make games they way the do,

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Black Isle

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I actually haven't played any games by Black Isle. If they have branching story lines affected by player choice, character customization/creation that plays into the narrative, and strong character interaction, then I'll have to look into their games. I can probably expect some of that from Fallout 2, if not most, but I am entirely ignorant of the Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate games.

I've mostly played Black Isle's PS2 titles, though I have greatly enjoyed my short time with Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Icewind Dale, and Planescape Torment. If you get a chance, check out their Champions of Norrath and Baldur's Gateark Alliance games. Top-down view dungeon crawlers, they are. Not as technically advanced nor as great customization available (for the most part, since you make your character the only things that change physically are then armors and weapons slightly, but they do incorporate levels, stats, and a skill/perk system) but still great fun either alone or with friends. Sadly, there's very little in the way of branching sstorylines, and what there is barely changes the game,e if at all.

I have a love/hate relationship with Bethesda. Though I love the Elder Scrolls franchise, Fallout has the number one spot in my heart, and though F3 and New Vegas fell flat in terms of narrative, the team's ability to deliver such a massive and open world is what got me invested in the latest versions of my beloved series. That being said, for as much fun as the first two Fallout games were for me, I would still like to see a modern Fallout adaptation of Fo1 and 2- being able to see Frank Horrigan hulking before you as he prepares to tear your limbs off and use your ribs as a back scratcher in first person, with modern day processing power, that would be a dream come true for me.

I will admit, I much preferred Saints Row 2 over the Saints last outing, but lack of good story and massive removal of customization options aside, I can't help but think that if Volition can get the writing team from SR2 to sit down and seriously look at an ME game, it would be interesting, but it would also be a fresh take okn the series, and that's not always an inherently bad thing,