Marriage, sex, and alternative lifestyles.

Now, I guess this is more of a curiosity on my part. But what about marriage makes sex more sacred in order to wait? It's a natural, biological process that every procreation capable being is instinctively inclined to do. I also understand some people feel it's "better" when they wait for that "special someone" to come along and put that ring on their finger. Is it because of whatever religion they were raised with to suppress this natural part of yourself? Or something else? I'm genuinely curious as we live in an age where sex is becoming more free-form, I suppose would be a good term for it.

My feeling is that sex is sacred because you want it to be. Not because of being married. Whether you have a one-night stand, or stay with that one partner the rest of your life, it means something simply because you want it to. An act outside of sex shouldn't make it more so.

Thoughts?

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

As someone who very well intended to save myself for marriage until my ex crashed into my life like a train, and who is openly agnostic, I can say with confidence that the sacredness of sex within marriage isn't entirely placed into religion. I will, however, say that religion is a huge part of it for most people. The reasons should be obvious. The vast majority of organised religions in the world view the act of creating new life as a sacred bond and a great responsibility (as, in my opinion, it should be). Now keep in mind, that when these religions were forged, there were no powerful birth control methods such as those we have today and there was much less knowledge of the workings of the human body. As a result, there was always a risk in procreation. Also keep in mind that Lust is one of the seven deadly sins which the 'devil' uses to guide lost souls to hell... or something like that. I know lust is a deadly sin but I honestly don't know how the 'deadly sins' work.

Changing the view of an entire organised people is not easy and, as such, devout Christians and all others alike still view out of marriage sex as a great sin because that is what their faith tells them. After all, though America views marriage as a legal union, Marriage in the olden days was a 100% spiritual and religious sanction.

Now, there are other people, like myself, who are not religious by nature but still feel that marriage makes sex sacred. Though I am no longer a proud holder of my V-Card and have never been married, I still think this way and don't feel too proud about what I have done in the past. Honestly, is has nothing to do with the sex being 'better' because you waited or any such superficial nonsense. My personal belief lies in the fact that no birth control (aside from permanent kinds) have a 100% success rate. When you have sex (herosexual sex anyway, which is the only kind that I will be having), there is always that chance, even if it is one in one hundred million, that the woman involved can become pregnant. My belief that sex should be sacred lies in that one and one hundred million chance - that child that could be born into a relationship void of true love.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I don't think marriage would make it so that child is born into a house of love. Some people who are married only stay married because of family/living situation/or whatever. Children are born of many different things.

Yes, in some cases marriage means you'll stay together forever, but I don't always see that as the case.

Hell, you could be married to someone for twenty years and then get divorced. But I wasn't talking about kids, really. But it does come up as part of the equation and all. So that is a valid point.

I think that if you want to do it, go ahead. And no, I'm saying go out and shag everyone around. I mean, if you want to go out and do it, be safe about it. Make sure you know what you are getting into. Marriage isn't a guarantee and neither are condoms or birth control. But at least be smart about it and reduce the risk if you are going to take the risk. Everything does have a risk, after all.

I didn't wait until marriage to have sex, but that was my choice. I didn't grow up in an environment where that ever really crossed my mind either. My thought was, "If I love and trust them enough, then I can do it." And that happened with my ex. My thoughts have changed more to, "If I trust them and am comfortable, then all right." But I'm also older now and less inclined to follow anyone's standards.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

If I may, I'd like to provide this from the perspective of a practicing Christian, so what the general belief is on this subject can be better understood.

For Christians, marriage is something absolutely sacred, created by God along with the first man and woman. He designated that a man and woman would leave there parents and cleave to each other.

As for the topic of sex, it is something that God also created, and is equally sacred. He created it to be a joyous part of marriage, a bliss reserved that joined with a spouse through mutual affection and desire to be united in all ways forever. As with many things in the Bible, there was a practical side to this as well. By promoting a single partner lifestyle, it reduced the risk of unwanted births, as well as the spread of disease via sexual contact. That said, God also deemed it so by his own accord, not simply as a practical solution to problems faced during the time period in which the Bible was written.

As for why we must resist the urge to have sex, despite it seeming to be a natural desire, you have to look at the Christian concept of sin. Back when Eve first accepted the fruit, she disobeyed God, thus allowing sin into the world. Sin corrupted every part of what God had created, and that included human desires. While before there most certainly was a desire for sexual satisfaction, it was not so great a craving that we would seek to disobey God in order to satisfy it. Now with a sinful world, we seek to fill that desire with anyone, or at least with someone other than who we have chosen to be our lifetime partner.

I'm sure I have left out a lot of things, and I will be happy to post answers to further questions on this particular viewpoint as they arise to the best of my ability.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Historically, marriage was important in order to have clear lines of succession and property rights. That was back in the days before the real prevalence of the romantic view of marriage for love. Hell, back in those days, even the peasants didn't marry for love, but for mutual advantage. Love often developed later, but it wasn't considered as important.

As has been said, with no reliable methods of birth control, kids born out of marriage could only confuse and dilute the rules of inheritance and property ownership. Thus, formal legal marriage was considered necessary. Cultural preferences, exclusively patriarchal, demanded at least feminine virginity, while the boys could fuck whoever they could. Religious interpretations and influence over marriage came late in the process, and it's only been within the last 1,000 years or so (a mind-numbing time, but still comparatively short compared to the existence of our species on the planet) that the whole Biblical interpretation of marriage has come to be important.

It's not that it wasn't there (although if the Nicean council had decided differently, it wouldn't be), but it wasn't interpreted as being significant until the religion adapted to the social practices (not the other way around). Then, all of a sudden, it's significant to draw parallels with Adam and Eve (and let's forget all the multiple wives and concubines and sleeping with in-laws and things in the Old Testament as inconvenient to the argument), and people start being raised thinking marriage was ALWAYS like this, and ordained by God, when frankly? Not really true. Same thing with sex, that's later Church interpretations casting sin on what didn't used to be really sinful, per se.

People think virginity is important because the concept of "purity" is ingrained in us pretty early in a variety of ways, and virginity is the mark of sexual purity. But of course, there has to be an outlet, an acceptable end-point to the purity, or else the species dies (look at the religious sects like the Shakers who gave up sex altogether and whose communities died out when they couldn't get enough converts to replace those who died). And also, sex is a mighty powerful impulse in humanity as a whole. So you have to have an acceptable outlet, and we're also trained that marriage is that. That way, any kids that come from it are legal, inheritance is covered, and the social construct can continue.

Virginity and marriage and their connections are only important because we think they are. Whether we make conscious decisions in that respect or we just go along with what we're trained, by parents, religion, or culture, that's up to the individual.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

You are correct, Hahvoc. Being married does not mean that there is love or that the parties involved will be together forever. It also doesn't mean that the child being born will have a loving environment or that it will have the nurturing of both parents that I, whole-heartedly, feel that it is entitled to. After all, its existence is their doing.

That aside, I am not the kind of person who pushes my beliefs onto others and I don't look down upon others who give into their bodily desires. After all, they are desires that I have as well since I am as human as the next guy. I live by my own perverted code of Chivalry, I suppose. I don't want to have kids before I am married because I will fight tooth and nail for my rights to be a large part of my children's lives and as someone who grew up with divorced parents, I know how big of a pain in their little asses that it can be getting dragged around from mommy's house to daddy's house all of the time. I don't want my kids to go through that.

Grated, there is no guarantee that my wife and I will always be together but I don't want to have kids with someone whom I can't see myself with in the long-haul. There might be ways to reduce the risk of pregnancy, but the momentary rewards to not outweigh the risks - not in my mind.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I'm not a practicing Christian nor do I think religion should play such a large role in a person's life. I'm also a biology major. I know a lot of scientists who think religion can go hand-in-hand with science, but I don't.

Anyways, I don't see it as "god made this and therefore--" And so on and so forth. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think religion can be silly and ridiculous- especially some of the people who practice it.

As I said, I think YOU should define what is sacred about sex/marriage and not let everyone else do it. I'll get into reading everyone's response when I'm more awake and make a reply based on them.

---

And I have to agree with what MM put since I've looked back into history thanks to a few classes I've had and reading on my own.

Looking at what you said, PF, I've been there as well. It sucks, but my parents were always fighting/dad was an asshole/ yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. Anyways, I am a person who believes in abortion, so if I got pregnant even after being safe and everything else, I'd think about either keeping it or not based on what I know I can and can't do. Some people don't believe that. But that's a separate subject.

Now, being a person who apparently goes against basically everything in the bible, [more than one loving partner, bisexual, into BDSM and proud, okay with Pro-Choice] I find that marriage will always be sacred, but it depends on what you and your partner decide, not religion. People will always have different views on it, I was just curious about what people thought themselves, not what their religion taught them exactly.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Well, if we want to remove all of the outside variables for the equation of "marriage + sex = sacred" such as religion, risk of children, and other such things then it is my opinion that only one thing about marriage makes sex any more sacred than it already is. No matter what your faith states and no matter how liberal or conservative you choose to be with your life, one thing about marriage will always be the same - it is a bonding of your life with others' whom you deeply care about.

That is what makes sex in marriage any more sacred in my mind, removing the aforementioned variables. If you never marry then your body will always be your own temple and you can do with as you please, when you please, and how you please. When you are married, however, it shows that the two of you have taken a great leap of dedication toward one another and from that point on, only your husband/wife should be allowed to touch you in a manner deemed sexual. Marriage, in itself, is a sacred bond in my eyes - a bond in which you give yourself to your partner spiritually and physically. You will both still have urges, yes, but resisting them is the test that proves that you truly want your partner and only your partner.

That is my take on the subject after setting aside outside influence.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I guess I would have to agree and yet disagree with you on that point.

As I said, I love more than one person/have multiple loving partners. Getting married would be something we would have to discuss and set terms for, because obviously that kind of a set up is "frowned upon in modern society."

But I've been noticing more and more lately that marriages are becoming open - where the husband/wife are still closely bonded and loving, but still have relationships outside the marriage that are healthy and do not disrupt what they already have.

As I said, it depends on the people in question. Some people are quite happy with it just being the two of them and no one else for the rest of their lives. Some people don't prefer that, but prefer the close bonding they have while being able to explore with other people in a sexual manner. Love and sex aren't always going to go hand-in-hand and neither are deep emotions for that matter. Most view sex as just that - sex - a means to an end for sexual/pleasurable gratification with no attachments.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

As someone who was raised a fundamental Christian and is now an Agnostic, I think Marriage is no longer a sacred practicing ground for sex. Now, I'm not saying you should go around and give yourself to any one who feels they can have you. You should have sex with someone you genuinely like. Virginity is something saved for marriage because of the Bible and Christianity. Now that I no longer have those faiths, I no longer believe that. Sex is something that you need to find out what you enjoy on your own. If you want it to be loving and sensual, you go right for that. But, if you don't think it's that much of a big deal and you think it just feels good - more power to you.

Just me butting my head in.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Oh, I am well aware that many marriages these days are 'open', as the term goes, but I personally will not have that in my relationship. If my wife is pregnant, then I am going to be the father of that child and if I am not then there are going to be serious ramifications that I am sure that I will not be able to recover from - effectively ending my marriage because the trust will be gone. As I said, I don't look down on those people that are more open with themselves but such behaviour isn't for me. I am a one-woman man and I expect the same respect. This is actually why I did not marry my ex. I proposed, she said that she would need and open marriage to be happy, and we walked away from one another. I still have a decent relationship with her. I don't blame her for it not working out and she didn't blame me. We simply needed two different commitments to be happy and rather than beat ourselves stupid against marital problems, we ended it.

Unfortunately for me, I practice BDSM in my sexual relationships and what I want in a partner is not going to be easy to find in such a lifestyle. I have faith, however, that I will find her if I look hard enough so here's to being hard-headed and set in my ways. -toasts-

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

If you're monogamous, more power to you, honestly. I tried it, found something was missing and didn't know what. Perhaps one day I will be monogamous again, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Or in any kind of distant future. -shrugs- But that's my case.

I do hope you do find someone who can marry you and be able to enjoy and share those things with you. It's a gift in every sense.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I feel the same way about polygomy. You only live once so if that is what makes you happy, then go for it. As long as you make sure that all of your partners know that they cannot have you to themselves and they understand this so noone is getting hurt, then it is a victimless crime - so to speak.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Indeed. And it seems we ran this whole discussion into the ground. D:

Whoops. Oh well, I did start it. XD

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Oh, I am sure other Blue Moonians would have different opinions than the two of us if asked face-to-face, but openly talking of potentially controversial issues is't something that everyone enjoys. MyNameIsothing and Mr Master both brought valid points to the table, though their posts were centered around the religious fact of the matter. Perhaps they will return at their convenience and give their personal opinions void of that variable.

EroticAsphyxiation seems to have a different view than the two of us as well, provided that I interpreted your own view correctly. We'll just have to see what else turns up.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I agree with what E.A put to a degree. Some variances on it though, but yes, that's the general gist of it. Most people don't want to start an argument so they'll tend to avoid it. I don't see an argument happening here, but sometimes things happen.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

In questions of sex and sacredness, you should also take in non-Western ideas. I mean in the Tantric worldview, sex itself is a sacred act.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

I have a friend who was very into tantric. It was supposed to be very spiritual.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Well, when it comes to polygamy, that's something I could rant and rave about for a very long time. But, surely, that's not why we're here. To touch on all topics - I am monogamous and I practice BDSM in all relationships. If I have a boyfriend - I have a Master. It's how I'm wired and what I crave.

Blah blah blah.
Etc etc etc.
Just don't get me started on politics, religion or feminism - we may be here a while.

RE: What about marriage makes sex sacred?

Now it's really slipping off topic. Maybe I should change the title to suit it...<.<

Predatory Fantasia said:

Perhaps they will return at their convenience and give their personal opinions void of that variable.

Click to expand...

Well, the only problem with that is that I kinda can't discuss my thoughts on it without bringing up that variable. My faith is intertwined with every aspect of my life, and my opinion is included in that. Its not a matter of me just regurgitating something the Bible says because thats what it says, my opinions correlate with what is in Scripture because its what I absolutely believe is the truth. I can pull my faith out of my opinions about as easily as I can pull the veins out of my arms.

When it comes to my thoughts on marriage, its sacred because God created it, and the same goes for sex. God set aside sex as something for those who chose to become husband and wife. Sex outside of marriage is considered adultery. Thats pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell, but I am happy to try and elaborate without going into a full theological lecture on the matter, cause then we might have some serious topic derailment, lol.

Nothy: That makes me wonder what your thoughts are on evolution and when Earth was actually created. But that's another story.

Have you ever gotten a blowjob or gone down on someone?

Hahvy: Indeed it is.

No, fingering is the extent of my sexual activities.

I guess I can applaud your will power then and respect your personal choice in that matter.